Did I over-smooth my Montblanc nib???

[rjc149]

I have a Chopin Meisterstuck that I found in my dad's closet. I immediately put it to use as I journal near-daily with a fountain pen.

The nib was a tad scratchy. I was comparing it to my Cross Aventura, which is pretty smooth. I took my Montblanc nib to a fine Arkansas stone, then to a brown paper bag, then I did the penny trick.

I think I overdid it. The pen writes very smoothly now, practically glides, but I'm just not sure if the medium nib is supposed to be this thick and inky.

Is this what it's supposed to look like?

I'm an amateur BTW. I know this may have been cringe-worthy to read.

https://imgur.com/a/XSdmf7Q

[Jon Szanto]

Ouch.

[Marsilius]

Sounds like it could use a visit to a nib meister. This is the place to get tips about tips and those who fix them . . .

[Chrissy]

Ouch.
I'm also going with ouch. Sadly rjc149 the short answer to your question is yes.
The only thing I ever use to "smooth" the nib of any of my pens is a nib smoothing board similar to the one used in this video clip (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=smoothing+nib+fountain+pen&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_SUVGXv7fLaPD8gKK1rjAAQ31) However, my one has been used so much that most of the grit has worn off leaving it much smoother to start with.

[Pterodactylus]

I also think you spoiled it.

To only smooth a nib you never need a grinding stone (unless you want to reshape the nib geometry).

I also think that brown paper and glass or ceramic are also not suitable (I don’t know your penny trick).
You most likely make your nibs worth than before (micro scratches on the surface).

Such a bit of scratchiness could also come from a slight misalignment of the tines (Check such things first with a loupe).

You only want to polish your nib, not reshape it.

I use a leather strap (smooth leather belt part) glued to a board with a tiny amount (not even really visible) of very fine polishing paste (I use Dialux green) on one end to polish nibs (8s and circular motions, first on the part with the paste and finally on the blank leather).

Others use the finest part of nail polish sticks.


Whatever you do, never overdo it, less is more!

As others said you most likely need professional help as you likely reshaped your nib (in case you want to restore the original shape).

[Chrissy]

When smoothing a nib it's always better to remember the rule: less is best. Use a smoothing board or micron lapping film only for 3 or 4 strokes then check, check, check, before you do any more strokes.
Once it's gone you can't add it back on, so only ever do it a little at a time.

My OH likens it to cutting wood/panels/boards/guttering etc to a specific size. Measure 4 times then cut once. :)

[FredRydr]

All is not lost. Put it in the hands of an expert and it'll be brought back to proper form.

[KBeezie]

Ouch.

Ouch.

[rjc149]

Thanks for the replies and advice.

Judging from what I've written, yes, I overdid it. But, how about the photos? The nib tip looks pointy, would you all say that's the result of inadvertently re-profiling the nib? I don't have any "before" photos to compare the "after" to.

Again, the pen writes very smoothly -- but I think that may be the result of the extra ink lubrication from the opened-up nib.

Any suggestions for a good nib meister? I called a fountain pen servicing shop in NYC, they estimate it'll run me over $100 to have it restored properly -- I saw a replacement nib on Etsy for $113 shipped, I'm considering that.

[FredRydr]

...I called a fountain pen servicing shop in NYC, they estimate it'll run me over $100 to have it restored properly -- I saw a replacement nib on Etsy for $113 shipped, I'm considering that.
I sense a theme here. Stop going cheap on such a nice pen.

Since you seem to favor NYC, my advice is to put the pen aside for three weeks until the 2020 Long Island Pen Show (http://www.lipenshow.com) at Hofstra University on March 7-8. Get to the show early enough to be among the first in the door to put your name at or near the top of one of the nibmeister's lists. The nib work will be performed in front of you, and you get to test your nib until it's the way you want. It'll be much less than $100, and you'll get to see the pen show with your savings.

[rjc149]

No way I would save money at a fountain pen show, I'd certainly splurge.

But thanks for the head's up! I may check that out.

[Jon Szanto]

I'll 2nd Fred's theme, and we are NOT being jerks: this is a fine pen. It deserves good treatment, so don't low-ball what you are doing or do anymore DIY. Take the time and the small amount of money and get it fixed up right. The pen show thing would be a great way to go, *especially* because working with a nib person in real time allows you to try the pen and then hand it back for more adjustments. I just had two pens done last weekend, each by a different person, and they are *spectacular* writers now.

If you cheap out, I will slap you.

[Pterodactylus]

Just looked at the nib photos in detail (must have overlooked it before),looks not good..... it looks like you ground half of the tipping away .... sorry.

:jaw:

I would also take Fredˋs advise and let a Meister look at it to make the best of a bad job.

[FredRydr]

... it looks like you ground half of the tipping away ....
The good news is that Montblanc puts large balls of tipping on their nibs, and there still appears to be plenty to work with on rjc149's nib.

[rjc149]

Ahhh damnit. Yeah I get -- zealous -- with DIY fixes. I just hate myself for doing this to such a nice pen. Thanks for taking a look guys. Ugh.

Curious, how would a nib meister salvage this? I'm not going to try more DIY I swear.

[FredRydr]

...how would a nib meister salvage this? I'm not going to try more DIY I swear.
It all depends on what you want in the end. You should look at http://www.richardspens.com/ref/nibs/basics.htm and any links from there, then get on Richard's list at the show, then discuss what you read and what you want with the man himself. He'll look at your nib and tell you what should be done (and what shouldn't be done) depending on the tipping and the shape of your nib. He will also adjust the flow to match your nib.

[Chrissy]

Curious, how would a nib meister salvage this? I'm not going to try more DIY I swear.
Fred's right, it depends on exactly what you want to achieve and what can be done to the nib as it is now. It might be possible to take the point down a little and shape it into something else, maybe a stubbish nib, that you will be happy with. :)

If you read Richard's pages you might be able to pick a shape you like?

[guyy]

...I called a fountain pen servicing shop in NYC, they estimate it'll run me over $100 to have it restored properly -- I saw a replacement nib on Etsy for $113 shipped, I'm considering that.
I sense a theme here. Stop going cheap on such a nice pen.

Since you seem to favor NYC, my advice is to put the pen aside for three weeks until the 2020 Long Island Pen Show (http://www.lipenshow.com) at Hofstra University on March 7-8. Get to the show early enough to be among the first in the door to put your name at or near the top of one of the nibmeister's lists. The nib work will be performed in front of you, and you get to test your nib until it's the way you want. It'll be much less than $100, and you'll get to see the pen show with your savings.

Will there be a nibmeister at the LIPS? There wasn’t the last time i went (3 or 4 years ago) It’s a small show. I wouldn’t want someone to hike all the way out to Huntington in search of a nibmeister who isn’t there.

[FredRydr]

Will there be a nibmeister at the LIPS? There wasn’t the last time i went (3 or 4 years ago) It’s a small show. I wouldn’t want someone to hike all the way out to Huntington in search of a nibmeister who isn’t there.
Did you look at the linked website?

[guyy]

No and that’s on me, but it might help the OP more to say that 3 people are doing it.

[Chuck Naill]

I was surprised, as a straight razor user, an Arkansas stone was even considered.

[rjc149]

I'll 2nd Fred's theme, and we are NOT being jerks: this is a fine pen. It deserves good treatment, so don't low-ball what you are doing or do anymore DIY. Take the time and the small amount of money and get it fixed up right. The pen show thing would be a great way to go, *especially* because working with a nib person in real time allows you to try the pen and then hand it back for more adjustments. I just had two pens done last weekend, each by a different person, and they are *spectacular* writers now.

If you cheap out, I will slap you.

Haha I'm not going to cheap out! My hasty DIY nib smoothing was just a knowledge gap and a learning curve. I'm really kind of bummed out about it now. I wish I was more careful about this kind of stuff.

But Hempstead LI is not close to me. Considering gas, tolls, time spent in Manhattan traffic, the cost of admission, and the cost of having the pen "meistered" could be considerably more than simply replacing the nib entirely and keeping the ruined one as a spare or maybe selling it on eBay to someone who can readily have the work done on it. It's not really a money objection, more of a time/effort thing.

Then again I would enjoy going to a fountain pen show aside from getting work done on my pen. So I'll see.

[KBeezie]

Haha I'm not going to cheap out! My hasty DIY nib smoothing was just a knowledge gap and a learning curve. I'm really kind of bummed out about it now. I wish I was more careful about this kind of stuff.


That's why you do it to a cheap Jinhao and some spare nibs, not on a family heirloom.

[Chrissy]

I'm not sure how difficult it would be a get a replacement nib for a Mb Meisterstück Chopin. Nor am I sure how easy it would be to fit if you managed to buy one.

[rjc149]

I saw one on Etsy, it's the whole screw-on nib housing, not just the nib. I may spring for it.

[rjc149]

Haha I'm not going to cheap out! My hasty DIY nib smoothing was just a knowledge gap and a learning curve. I'm really kind of bummed out about it now. I wish I was more careful about this kind of stuff.


That's why you do it to a cheap Jinhao and some spare nibs, not on a family heirloom.

Yes, I know I f--ked up. I'm owning it. Lesson learned (the hard way :cry:).

[Jon Szanto]

Yes, I know I f--ked up. I'm owning it. Lesson learned (the hard way :cry:).

Don't think that everyone is jumping on you, as (for the most part) FPG isn't like that. It's just that people read the thread at different times. It is also pretty clear you are aware of the mistakes made and I think it takes a lot to publicly own those kind of moments, so good on you for that. Live and learn, yeah?

[Deb]

Those of us who broke cheap pens are just lucky.

[Chrissy]

I saw one on Etsy, it's the whole screw-on nib housing, not just the nib. I may spring for it.
Please be aware that unscrewing Montblanc nib housings to screw in new ones isn't known for it's ease and simplicity. However, I've never heard of any special tool requirements for a 145/Chopin so it may be relatively straightforward. :)

[KBeezie]

Worst case scenario, send it out to be re-tipped to a tipping size/shape of your choice. (at least the nib would still be original to the previous owner)

[Chrissy]

Worst case scenario, send it out to be re-tipped to a tipping size/shape of your choice. (at least the nib would still be original to the previous owner)
It's only a 145/Chopin nib. Nothing specially different between one or another and the price of retipping would probably be higher than the Etsy price he's found for a new nib.

[Ron Z]

<sigh> Arkansas stone, paper bag, penny.... on a how many hundred dollar pen? I wish I could put a silver stake in the myth that these are good ways to smooth a nib. They are not, and never have been.

I'm pretty sure that the Kennedys and Richard Binder will be at the show. If its possible to save the nib, they'll take care of it for you.

[KBeezie]

<sigh> Arkansas stone, paper bag, penny....

Do these suggestions show up often on a general google search for tips and tricks? Cuz it's more than a few times I heard of someone doing it, and I can't even fantom it, and I feel like I'm still a novice to it all.

No offense to the OP of course, as I know the information must have come from somewhere, just seems too common. And I remember in the earlier start of getting into pens (I started in 2014), that I had heard of the brown paper bag 'trick', but I always looked down on it because there would be way too much inconsistency from one batch to another if it even worked as intended. And even when I did give it a go with a cheap steel nib from a batch of cheap pens, the results is almost always a smooth-but-blobby mess when there's no fine control or experience in between.

Like honestly I want to find the sources being published on the ill-fated advice and just gather them up in a catalog of "... are you kidding me?" resources.

Especially since so many (new and vintage) Montblancs are falling victim lately.

Like not even a week ago :

https://i.imgur.com/Ngggcnl.png

https://i.imgur.com/ZwZUjWp.png

[Jon Szanto]

Thanks for keeping the screencap long enough to include my remark... ;)

[KBeezie]

Thanks for keeping the screencap long enough to include my remark... ;)

Was the cherry on top, I had to.

[Ron Z]

Do these suggestions show up often on a general google search for tips and tricks? Cuz it's more than a few times I heard of someone doing it...

It pops up on pen boards as a way to smooth nibs from time to time. I don't know where it originated. I've seen a few of the videos on how to repair pens by people who shall remain unnamed. A compendium of totally disastrous information in most cases. There are some good repair videos out there - Laurence Oldfield made some for the WES. Most of the people who are good at repair don't have enough time to go posting repair videos.

[rjc149]

I guess some insight --

Yes, I went online and saw suggestions for the honing stone, the brown paper bag, and the penny...

Although the pen was given to me (unused, in its original box) and I didn't pay for it, I was really put off by the scratchiness of the nib. Like, isn't a Montblanc supposed to write like a dream? It's a $300+ writing instrument -- I don't know, is there usually a "break in" period for nibs?

So after a week or so of daily writing, it still felt like writing with a pencil. After a bit of bourbon one Friday evening, I decided to take matters into my own hands. I just really, really overdid it. I'm impatient and careless with these things a lot of the time. Especially when alcohol enters the equation. I've ripped the breast pocket on new suits because I was frustrated with my wallet not sliding in very easily. I'm working on that.

[Ron Z]

All of us have learned lessons about use or care of pens, and more, the hard way. Repair guys even more than others. It is no doubt the reason why we tend to be so cautious. As long as we do learn, it is not wasted.

[welch]

No and that’s on me, but it might help the OP more to say that 3 people are doing it.

LI Pen Show says Richard Binder, Linda Kennedy, and Josh Lax will be there.

- I send my pens to Josh Lax for nib work. He is in Big Apple Pen Club, and saved the nib on a Parker-100 that had dropped point-down on my floor

- Linda Kennedy, of Indy Pen Dance, learned from Richard Binder

- Richard Binder would be in the Fountain Pen Hall of Fame, if there was one.

There was a mention that Jim Baer would do work. When Richard was selling pens, they came with a slip of paper saying "Binderized by Jim Baer".

(Most in FPG know these people, but for the OP, that's who they are and why you can trust advice from any of them)

[KBeezie]

Although the pen was given to me (unused, in its original box) and I didn't pay for it, I was really put off by the scratchiness of the nib. Like, isn't a Montblanc supposed to write like a dream? It's a $300+ writing instrument -- I don't know, is there usually a "break in" period for nibs?

So after a week or so of daily writing, it still felt like writing with a pencil.



Status/Money doesn't always equate to quality, especially when it's used. And "write like a dream" is extremely subjective that can be had with a $40 steel nib pen, or even a $50,000 montegrappa.

Likewise, just as there are many different styles of pens, there's many styles of nibs, and again many styles of tipping/texture. The aim of 'glassy butter smooth' isn't what everyone ones, and not always at the high end either. There's going to be nibs with tactile feedback even on the high end. For example Aurora is known more for having a sort of pencil-like feedback, and many like myself desire that.

I don't like the firm-stylus-on-glass feel, I like my points to give me a sort of soft velvety graphite feel on paper (also the nibs with that kind of feedback tend to write on more paper surfaces without the need to be extra wet)

And the only "break in" period there may be is your own adjustment to using it, or finding the right paper+ink+nib combination that makes it feel good to you (not all papers or inks are going to feel the same).


Also how you described 'scratchiness' , but saying 'still felt like writing with a pencil.' Means you were using the term scratchy incorrectly, what you're referring to is feedback. With most of us here, 'scratchy' is a defect, that snags on the paper when you try to write, and it's usually the result of one tipping sitting higher than the other, and snagging the inside edge of the tipping. (Which if that was the case, then checking for alignment was the very first thing that should have been done because smoothing a mis-aligned nib ruins it unnecessarily).




After a bit of bourbon one Friday evening, I decided to take matters into my own hands. I just really, really overdid it. I'm impatient and careless with these things a lot of the time. Especially when alcohol enters the equation. I've ripped the breast pocket on new suits because I was frustrated with my wallet not sliding in very easily. I'm working on that.



My advice is to re-evaluate your expectations, and don't buy (or DIY something you don't want to have to pay to replace) something until you're patient enough to research it. Fountain pens, especially "fine writing instrument", aka "luxury" etc pens, are not for the impatient/novice. (though I feel that way of all pens, but most of the sub-$50, it's a minor financial burn to mistreat them).