goulet and nibs.com stopped taking orders

[85AKbN]

goulet shut down:

Due to COVID-19 we are now fully remote, and all orders placed will not ship until it is safe for our team to resume working in the building. This may last weeks or longer. We are now offering free USPS shipping on any $50+ order within the US as a thanks for your patience.

nibs.com suspending operations.

https://i.imgur.com/oUDZNTCl.jpg

[sgphoto]

I would be careful about making any orders from anywhere that takes your money now but are unable to quickly deliver the product. It doesn't matter what company it is. A pen that retails for $100.00 today will be lucky to bring $50.00 in a few weeks/months. Maybe even less as there won't be money available for pens. Retailers of mass market non-essentials will drop prices just to have cash flow with hopes to survive. Many retail vendors will not survive, will go bankrupt, and your money is gone.

I don't care what the company's good name is or what high moral standards they claim as these are not normal times and past performace isn't a good indicator of what can occur in the future.

Should you place an order not knowing if or when your order might appear, make sure it's money you can afford to lose.

Economics will tell you that certain product prices, referred to as non-essentials, will collapse in the long term. I see no reason this will not happen to the pen market. That Pelikan, bought last year for $800.00 retail, will sell new next year for perhaps $4-500 (or less). That used Pelikan bought for $800 will be lucky to bring $200.00 and that's optimistic. Pens are not investments 99% of the time. No one needs a pen to survive.

Buy only what you are assured to get. You'll need cash for the future.

Learn what essentials are and act accordingly.

It will suprise people to find that they lack many essentials but they swim in their over-abundance of Beanie Babies and the latest fads. If you've never learned to live below your means, you'll now pay the price.

In my case I had several items listed on Craiglist and other such sites. Here's why three weeks ago I removed those listings.

1. I don't want to have contact with people.

2. The items I had listed would be considered 'essentials' and highly desirable during rough economic times. As I didn't need the money, I knew they would go up in value tremendously and I could always sell or barter them into the foreseeable future for much more than I could get now.

If you have something non-essential you want to sell, do it now as the price will go down. Consider taking a loss today as you'll take a bigger loss next month.

If it's something you want to buy and it's non-essential, wait.

This isn't a matter of supporting small businesses and making a statement of your belief in a company, this is your economic well-being. Act wisely.

[sgphoto]

I see where other pen companies around the world are shutting down for the pandemic. India has a lockdown on shipping until April 15th at the earliest.

While a few companies are taking orders, many have advised no orders will be shipped until an undetermined time in the future but they'll take your money now.

Be careful if you go that route. As you can see on the sales forums here and elsewhere, pen prices are dropping and there are few or no takers. This will continue for months as those who were "pen poor" are now seeing just how cash poor they are and must take a big loss in order to avoid further drops.

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

[TSherbs]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

I'm not buying jack.
....


I'm with you. I made a few purchases right before the virus hit. Although I didn't know the future then, I am kicking myself for them.

[Jon Szanto]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?

[Chrissy]

I would be careful about making any orders from anywhere that takes your money now but are unable to quickly deliver the product. It doesn't matter what company it is. A pen that retails for $100.00 today will be lucky to bring $50.00 in a few weeks/months. Maybe even less as there won't be money available for pens. Retailers of mass market non-essentials will drop prices just to have cash flow with hopes to survive. Many retail vendors will not survive, will go bankrupt, and your money is gone.

I don't care what the company's good name is or what high moral standards they claim as these are not normal times and past performace isn't a good indicator of what can occur in the future.

Should you place an order not knowing if or when your order might appear, make sure it's money you can afford to lose.

Economics will tell you that certain product prices, referred to as non-essentials, will collapse in the long term. I see no reason this will not happen to the pen market. That Pelikan, bought last year for $800.00 retail, will sell new next year for perhaps $4-500 (or less). That used Pelikan bought for $800 will be lucky to bring $200.00 and that's optimistic. Pens are not investments 99% of the time. No one needs a pen to survive.

Buy only what you are assured to get. You'll need cash for the future.

Learn what essentials are and act accordingly.

It will suprise people to find that they lack many essentials but they swim in their over-abundance of Beanie Babies and the latest fads. If you've never learned to live below your means, you'll now pay the price.

In my case I had several items listed on Craiglist and other such sites. Here's why three weeks ago I removed those listings.

1. I don't want to have contact with people.

2. The items I had listed would be considered 'essentials' and highly desirable during rough economic times. As I didn't need the money, I knew they would go up in value tremendously and I could always sell or barter them into the foreseeable future for much more than I could get now.

If you have something non-essential you want to sell, do it now as the price will go down. Consider taking a loss today as you'll take a bigger loss next month.

If it's something you want to buy and it's non-essential, wait.

This isn't a matter of supporting small businesses and making a statement of your belief in a company, this is your economic well-being. Act wisely.
Agreed. :) I'm buying hardly anything at the moment that is non-essential although I had to search for and buy a refill ink cartridge for my printer over the weekend as it's almost empty and we don't have a replacement.

If Goulet Pens are saying they are holding onto money but not shipping orders, I wouldn't be placing any orders with them for sure. If you pay for items by PayPal, then the contract is they have to ship within 7 days. You definitely don't want your PayPal "claim" period for non delivery to run out while you're waiting for goods to arrive at some date in the future.

Sg is right. Goods are more likely to come down in price after the pandemic than to go up so it's worth waiting if you can. Also, we will lose some retailers. Probably not Goulet Pens with their vast stocks, but some smaller retailers. It's therefore wise to not give them money now and hope for the best in the future.

[Chrissy]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.
Is this not what your government is spending it's $2 trillion dollars on? Saving jobs and businesses that desperately need help because of the pandemic?

[Chemyst]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.
Is this not what your government is spending it's $2 trillion dollars on? Saving jobs and businesses that desperately need help because of the pandemic?

That’ll certainly help in the short-term to keep rents paid and workers on the books.

In the medium term though, if people become too afraid of the future to spend money, except on food, utilities and taxes, then all your small businesses will rapidly be sucked into the recession/depression spiral.

[Chrissy]

I absolutely understand what you're saying, but some are rightly afraid that if they catch it they might not survive. They might not be around to enjoy any expensive luxuries they bought while hoping they might be OK. That's their uncertainty now.

[TSherbs]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.

Small and local businesses need your support more than ever right now.

https://www.msbdc.org/images/asbdc_carryon_blue.jpgSorry, but my family comes first.

Those businesses should save every penny, too. And if they close, then they close. I might lose my job, too.

We will come out of this, but I'll make sure that my wife and kids are ok before I buy a pen. Pens don't matter and are not a source of any deep happiness or meaning for me. They are just things.

And since within a few years I plan to retire, I can't be stupid with money now.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

[sgphoto]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?

Mass-produced pens with no value other than their intrinsic value as a communication device will fall in price. That includes Montblancs, Sailor, Pilot, my pens, your pens, etc. Only those pens that have historical, artistic, exceptional provenance, might not fall, and that's a 'might not.'

Pay attention to the For Sale section on this forum. Every day you'll see what once were highly collectible and Grail pens on sale, but no takers. Then you'll see the seller offer a small price reduction - no takers. Smart sellers will offer a drastic 20-30% discount at the get-go, attract a buyer, take the money and say a prayer of relief. Continually making a "bump" to attract attention at the same opening asking price is failing to comprehend the market and hoping a fool will soon part with his money.

Sell at a big discount now. It will be more difficult in the weeks ahead, much less in the months to come.

Only the buyer who waits to buy at the bottom 1/4 of the fall will make money. There's an oversupply of pen makers. Only those who are semi debt-free and holding cash will survive.

If pens weren't made for another ten years no one would care or notice generally as there exist millions of unsold pens now.

Again, it's not a matter of supporting small businesses. Some businesses should never have started. It's not in my best financial interest to support them now with a purchase that will be worth far less in a few months.

Will pen prices return to the January 1, 2020 level? Maybe, but not soon. It could be years. That's the reason if you don't need to sell your pens for cash now, hold them for their value to you. But if you do need to sell pens for cash, do it now as prices will continue to fall - first in the secondary market and then in the maker's market. Retailers are offering many incentives now for you to purchase - but I will not. Retail prices will begin to fall and they'll be desperate to get sales. Many retailers are already offering 20% discounts on high-dollar pens. This would have been unheard of last January.

Cash is what counts now - not another pen, baseball card, or Hummel figurine.

[724Seney]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.

Small and local businesses need your support more than ever right now.

https://www.msbdc.org/images/asbdc_carryon_blue.jpg

I agree with your sentiment that small businesses need our support now more than ever before. Absolutely right.
But the operative word is "business." How is it "business" if someone takes your money but you get nothing in return. I'd call that a loan.
Some loans get repaid and some get defaulted.
Every day I am doing something which is supporting our local businesses and I am doing so as best as I can. I am doing more "business" with our local businesses than ever before.
But I'm not giving any of our businesses money in return for an "IOU." From that perspective, I agree with the others.

[sgphoto]

I'm not buying jack.

But not for any of the reasons you say.

I'm just not spending money on anything but food and utilities and taxes (delayed, but inevitable).

I bought stamps, but I am not buying anything else related to this hobby. Not for months and months, likely. I don't know why anyone would spend anything except for essentials right now, but I can only speak for myself.

Understandable, but this is also the way that small businesses go under.

Consider if a 100% moratorium is the right way to go. Come April 13 (or May 1 or June 15 or ???), you may try to return to your normal life, only to find all the small things that gave you pleasure have dissolved away.

Small and local businesses need your support more than ever right now.

https://www.msbdc.org/images/asbdc_carryon_blue.jpg

Those small pleasures you speak of, if external, are fleeting and always go away. It's been so in good times and bad.

Cultivate internal pleasures - those can last your lifetime and need not be dissolved in difficult times. You control those internal pleasures. You have no control over external ones.

I doubt anyone on their deathbed wished they had bought another Montblanc 149 to make their life complete.

[whichwatch]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?


Come on, Jon. The man has been around here for a month or two so is obviously an expert. The only question in my mind is given his apparent level of expertise in markets, why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market where he could make big money?

[Deb]

A thing that annoys me - many things annoy me but this is the latest. You're not allowed to take your car and just go for drive in the country. And they say you can take a walk but now they say not more than a couple of kilometers. Why? If you're doing these things and not mixing with other people you're not spreading the virus. It seems to me that coming up with rules like these cast everything else into doubt because they are so utterly illogical.

[724Seney]

I'm sensing that this thread is headed towards our needing to put on our flame retardant suits again.
I'm not being critical of anyone's posts or positions. It just never ceases to amaze me how we manage to do this so often.

At the risk of being flamed myself, I just want to go back to the original premise of this thread and say thank you to those sellers who have found a way to be able to continue to serve us.... even in this world-wide trying and challenging time.

A few days ago I made a small purchase from Sam & Frank at Pendemonium. In spite of the modest amount of my purchase, they treated me like I was the most important customer in the world and did all they could to help me out with my need. I realize it is not feasible for everyone to keep their businesses up and running right now but it certainly is a breath of fresh air to see how hard Sam & Frank are trying to do so. Thanks guys!! :thank_you2:

Disclaimer: Absolutely no relationships

[sgphoto]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?


Come on, Jon. The man has been around here for a month or two so is obviously an expert. The only question in my mind is given his apparent level of expertise in markets, why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market where he could make big money?

I've never claimed to be a pen or financial expert and I've never bought one pen thinking it would retain the price I paid for it. I have made money in the stock market by not buying or selling on emotion but on market conditions.

The pen market is subject to the same market as all other non-essentials. That doesn't take an expert to discover. Knowing the difference between a Parker made in 1932 and one made in 1933 may make you knowledgable about certain Parker pens. It does not speak to your financial acumen.

If you think the pen market is not subject to economics, well, there's plenty of pens for you to buy. Get 'em now before the price goes lower.

[sgphoto]

I'm sensing that this thread is headed towards our needing to put on our flame retardant suits again.
I'm not being critical of anyone's posts or positions. It just never ceases to amaze me how we manage to do this so often.

At the risk of being flamed myself, I just want to go back to the original premise of this thread and say thank you to those sellers who have found a way to be able to continue to serve us.... even in this world-wide trying and challenging time.

A few days ago I made a small purchase from Sam & Frank at Pendemonium. In spite of the modest amount of my purchase, they treated me like I was the most important customer in the world and did all they could to help me out with my need. I realize it is not feasible for everyone to keep their businesses up and running right now but it certainly is a breath of fresh air to see how hard Sam & Frank are trying to do so. Thanks guys!! :thank_you2:

Disclaimer: Absolutely no relationships

I too have recently bought from Sam and Frank. They're good people. But I'm betting that Sam and Frank aren't deep in debt, haven't bought high-dollar pens on a whim, and can survive this pandemic.

Note what they sell. There's a far cry between selling items for $50 or less than $200 dollar and up retail pens. I'd rather support Sam and Frank with my business than Goulet, Goldspot, and other big retailers.

I need some more Legal Lapis ink. Now's a good time to get it from Pendemonium.

[sgphoto]

...why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market....
Have you ever tried to write a letter with a share certificate?

But I can write a letter with a Number 2 pencil if need be. Have you ever tried to eat a Montblanc 146?:applause:

I'm merely pointing out what nearly all markets are subject to and I don't believe the pen market is any different. Maybe some people will be upset by what I write. That's not my concern. Some people will get upset if I wear a blue shirt instead of a brown one. People can do what they wish.

At this time if you have guns, they'll increase in value. Pens will not.

[whichwatch]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?


Come on, Jon. The man has been around here for a month or two so is obviously an expert. The only question in my mind is given his apparent level of expertise in markets, why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market where he could make big money?

I've never claimed to be a pen or financial expert and I've never bought one pen thinking it would retain the price I paid for it. I have made money in the stock market by not buying or selling on emotion but on market conditions.

The pen market is subject to the same market as all other non-essentials. That doesn't take an expert to discover. Knowing the difference between a Parker made in 1932 and one made in 1933 may make you knowledgable about certain Parker pens. It does not speak to your financial acumen.

If you think the pen market is not subject to economics, well, there's plenty of pens for you to buy. Get 'em now before the price goes lower.


Oh, the pen market is no doubt subject to economics, same as any other market. I think what Jon and I are probably reacting to is the way you seemed to present your opinions as iron clad, unarguable facts. Perhaps you did not mean to sound that way.

My own opinion is that selling possibly at a loss after a crisis has caused a market to move sharply downward in fear that it might still go lower is often not a road to happiness. But I guess it all really depends on an individual's time horizon.

Just my opinion. Others may and no doubt will agree or disagree as they choose.

[sgphoto]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?


Come on, Jon. The man has been around here for a month or two so is obviously an expert. The only question in my mind is given his apparent level of expertise in markets, why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market where he could make big money?

I've never claimed to be a pen or financial expert and I've never bought one pen thinking it would retain the price I paid for it. I have made money in the stock market by not buying or selling on emotion but on market conditions.

The pen market is subject to the same market as all other non-essentials. That doesn't take an expert to discover. Knowing the difference between a Parker made in 1932 and one made in 1933 may make you knowledgable about certain Parker pens. It does not speak to your financial acumen.

If you think the pen market is not subject to economics, well, there's plenty of pens for you to buy. Get 'em now before the price goes lower.


Oh, the pen market is no doubt subject to economics, same as any other market. I think what Jon and I are probably reacting to is the way you seemed to present your opinions as iron clad, unarguable facts. Perhaps you did not mean to sound that way.

My own opinion is that selling possibly at a loss after a crisis has caused a market to move sharply downward in fear that it might still go lower is often not a road to happiness. But I guess it all really depends on an individual's time horizon.

Just my opinion. Others may and no doubt will agree or disagree as they choose.

Everything I post is my opinion. Who else's could it be? People are free to agree, disagree, and offer evidence that I'm incorrect. I've been totally wrong before but learned from my errors. If the evidence has merit, I'll consider it and if it's unassailable, I'll act on it.

I do think my opinions are justified by history. Never have I seen where non-essentials went up in lasting value during depressions, pandemics, and other periods of calamity. There may be exceptions or one-offs, but non-essentials fall in price in such times.

That's also the reason I stress not selling your pens if you don't need the cash short-term or long term.

But certainly, pen purchases can be serious dents in your cash flow. The best public example I know of is Matt Armstrong of The Pen Habit. After getting started in pens he spent $20,000.00 he said he didn't have on pens and related items in the first year.

David Parker on Figboot on Pens, one of my favorite reviewers, made the comment that as he tracks his extensive pen collection usage throughout the year, he only used one of his favorite Grail pens three times that year and questioned whether he should reduce his pen buying habits and sell off part of his collection.

I'm not saying to give up pens or give them away. I'm saying that if you do not have cash on hand, or worse yet in debt because of your pens, selling non-essentials makes good sense at this moment. Time is not on the side of the seller. Prices will not remain stable.

Again, all my opinion. I welcome other opinions based on economics, not emotions. I wish the virus wasn't here, that this pandemic would go away, but my wishes count for naught.

Cheers.
Sg

[Jon Szanto]

At the risk of being flamed myself, I just want to go back to the original premise of this thread and say thank you to those sellers who have found a way to be able to continue to serve us.... even in this world-wide trying and challenging time.

A few days ago I made a small purchase from Sam & Frank at Pendemonium. In spite of the modest amount of my purchase, they treated me like I was the most important customer in the world and did all they could to help me out with my need. I realize it is not feasible for everyone to keep their businesses up and running right now but it certainly is a breath of fresh air to see how hard Sam & Frank are trying to do so.

Here, here, and thank you as well. I was going to put a similar sentiment this morning.

I'm tired of the "me first" stuff, just my feeling, just my opinion. Over the years I've had good service, good products, good relationships and even the start of personal friendships with a number of pen businesses. This is a time of many stresses for people all around us. I've worked hard, saved hard, and am prepared for the last couple decades of my life as best as I can tell. I still have a bit of discretionary spending ability, and if a small purchase now helps one of those people - because that is what they are to me, not some corporate behemoth - then I will make a small purchase here and there. If, gods and viruses forbid, something goes south and I don't get something in return, maybe I will have softened the blow for them. It is a way of showing my appreciation above and beyond the mere transactional nature of the story. That is one of the worst developments in society, starting right at the top: relationships becoming nothing more than transactions.

Not for me. Just as I've gone to a couple of our favorite restaurants, who are struggling to keep their staff employed and whole, and purchased take-out meals. We've got stuff we can cook at home, but this is a small way to help them when they are having a hard time, and lord knows they've given us many moments of pleasure. I'm happy to help them out.


Everything I post is my opinion.

Yeah, I get that. I think some prices will drop as well. I just don't understand why, if you really don't have anything to hang it on in a factual way, why you feel the need to say things like 95%. Because I kinda think that is way off base.

When - If! - things start coming back, it is going to take a while to norm out, and it will be up to niche markets to support, to the best of each person's ability, that market. I plan on doing that. I don't look at my writing instruments as throwaways or garbage tools or stock certificates or anything other than delightful objects that allow me to express myself, communicate and be creative. They give me a great deal of pleasure and it flows back out from me in a number of ways. To other people is one of those.

[countrydirt]

Yesterday I purchased some cheeses from a local cheese shop. I ordered online and then drove to the shop to pick it up curbside. Will my $25 purchase keep them afloat? Probably not, but I supported my local cheesemonger and encouraged others through social media to do the same. I also ordered groceries from Walmart. Sure, the money goes to a behemoth business, but the store shopper is a local person and my $150 grocery purchase goes toward keeping them employed. Last week I made an order from Frank at Federalist Pens and Paper. Will my $25 order keep him afloat? Not by itself, but, if enough people, with the ability to do just the same, we can at least slow down the onrushing recession for that business. I'm fortunate, I have steady employment in this new normal (I'm a high school teacher) so working distance learning is the new game and I won't miss a paycheck. But, my paycheck helps support many local, regional and national businesses through my purchases, so I guess I'll keep buying what is needed.

[sgphoto]

I said 95% of pen prices will drop because I didn't believe that 100% of pen prices will drop. This morning I got an email from a pen retailer advising that some Visconti pens are now being discounted at 20% as well as other pens.
.
Would this be happening except for the pandemic? I don't know, but I've never received an email from a retailer that Visconti pens are now discounted at 20%. This tells me that that retailer wants to make money while he can.

Will Noodler Ahabs sell for less? Probably. I purchased my last three at $18.50, down from the regular 23.00. But that's not where great losses will take effect. It will be in the high-dollar pens, new and vintage. Vintage will probably hold their value much better than the newly made pens. But vintage will in most cases still sell for less than a month ago. See anyone snapping up high-dollar pens?

A restored 1955 Chevy will hold its value over a 2020 Volkswagon, but again, who's going to be buying a 1955 Chevy now? The antique car market has been falling for five years, except for the premium vintage cars. Many reasons before the pandemic and even more reasons now.

Come back a year from now and look at that 95% and if I'm wrong I'll admit it. But I'm placing market economics over wishes and cash over non-essentials. In a few months so will most people.

[TSherbs]

Not a time to sell if you can help it and it's not a time to buy as prices will fall much further on 95% of all pens.

How do you come up with numbers like that? Why not 100%, or 60%, or 33% or any other number for that matter? How is this not just a WAG?


Come on, Jon. The man has been around here for a month or two so is obviously an expert. The only question in my mind is given his apparent level of expertise in markets, why is he messing with pens instead of the stock market where he could make big money?

I've never claimed to be a pen or financial expert and I've never bought one pen thinking it would retain the price I paid for it. I have made money in the stock market by not buying or selling on emotion but on market conditions.

The pen market is subject to the same market as all other non-essentials. That doesn't take an expert to discover. Knowing the difference between a Parker made in 1932 and one made in 1933 may make you knowledgable about certain Parker pens. It does not speak to your financial acumen.

If you think the pen market is not subject to economics, well, there's plenty of pens for you to buy. Get 'em now before the price goes lower.


Oh, the pen market is no doubt subject to economics, same as any other market. I think what Jon and I are probably reacting to is the way you seemed to present your opinions as iron clad, unarguable facts. Perhaps you did not mean to sound that way.

My own opinion is that selling possibly at a loss after a crisis has caused a market to move sharply downward in fear that it might still go lower is often not a road to happiness. But I guess it all really depends on an individual's time horizon.

Just my opinion. Others may and no doubt will agree or disagree as they choose.Of course, if you don't exchange pens in the buy and sell market, this hardly matters. I have only sold one pen of mine in 7 years. And I don't buy anything over $100. And I don't buy often. I'm frugal and not acquisitive by nature. Nor impatient or profit motivated. This has served me well for decades. Pen prices can rise or fall; I don't care. I have no FOMO, thank God.



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[Jon Szanto]

I said 95% of pen prices will drop because I didn't believe that 100% of pen prices will drop.

Then it is somewhat silly to put a number on it. "Pen prices will likely drop across the board" is a bit more accurate.


But vintage will in most cases still sell for less than a month ago. See anyone snapping up high-dollar pens?

I still see sales (I pay more attention to vintage than new, retail pens) going on and finding buyers. It may be a small market but there are always going to be people of means who ride out the ebbs and flows of the world.


Come back a year from now and look at that 95% and if I'm wrong I'll admit it. But I'm placing market economics over wishes and cash over non-essentials. In a few months so will most people.

Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see.

BTW, I don't want this to come off confrontational. I was honestly curious about the percentage and I have very different viewpoints on purchasing at a time like this. Nothing more, just my way of looking at things.

[sgphoto]

Jon, I don't think you're being confrontational - we just have different opinions.

Pen prices drop everyday - they did before the pandemic -they will drop more during the pandemic.

Let's say today I purchase a pen for $100 retail. I can't sell it for $100.00 tomorrow because of off-the-lot depreciation. Just like buying a new car. Drive it off the lot and you'll lose at minimum 10%. Next year its price will be even less, even if it sits in your garage undriven.

Pens are rarely an investment - or rather pens are rarely a good investment. It is the exceptions that make this case.

I'm not a Montblanc fan. I think they're vastly over-priced for what they are. But the only Montblanc I ever wanted and considered is the Alfred Hitchcock. Why? Because it didn't look like the normal Montblanc. Yet if I bought it a month ago at the asking price I might enjoy it forever, but it would be a poor investment.

The most expensive pens I own are handmade Ranga pens. I like the ebonites, the colors, the size, the designs - all those subjective qualities that are important to me. Are they investments? Certainly not. I'd be lucky to get 60-65% of the price if I sold them today.
Yet I'm awaiting shipment from India 3 more Ranga pens at around $225 in what I paid. They're made and ready to be shipped but India is on shutdown until April 15th at the earliest.

So, at the worst, I stand to lose $225.00 dollars. But that's a loss I can take. I've been to dinners where the bill was far more than that.

I know of no pens (but my complete knowledge is limited) that do not drop in price, save for the 5% exception that existed long before the pandemic.

That's the reason I could opine that 95% of all pens will be worth less price wise next year. With the pandemic, the drop will be far more than normal depreciation.

I found a video by SBRE Brown on "Are Pens a Good Investment?" It's available on Youtube and might bear watching.

I've taken no offense at anything anyone has said.

Cheers,
Sg

[sgphoto]

Jon,
One other point I want to address is what you said about supporting local businesses. I agree, but certainly what might be considered local has changed. With the internet, local can be across the world.

One reason I buy from Ranga beyond their craftsmanship, is they seem to really appreciate my business in a way that's almost old-fashioned by standards today. I've corresponded a bit with Mr. Kandan and he's always gracious and helpful, making good suggestions, concerned I like my pens, willing to do special orders without jacking up the price, keeps me informed of my order's progress, and has always inquired as to my health and safety. I wish he and his company were in town so I could visit him and his family.

To me, he's local and I'll happily give him my first money when things return to semi-normal. Plus, he's getting the money directly, not a distributor, not a retailer, he's getting more profit and I'm glad it's that way.

Look at Goulet Pens. They buy from a distributor, who buys from the manufacturer (not in all cases, but most). The money for all that, and it's fair to assume everyone doubles their cost, means on a hundred dollar pen the manufacturer gets twenty-five, charges fifty to the retailer, who charges me one hundred. That's keystoning and it's been a business way for a very long time in many fields.

So by giving my business to Ranga, I eliminate the distributor and retailer to put the money in the hands of the maker. Of course, I could buy a Ranga pen from Peyton Street Pens, but then Ranga gets less profit.

Perhaps by the time this all shakes out, we'll see more production from smaller outfits that sell directly to the public bypassing distributors and retailers and charging less for their pens. Right now, smaller outfits must charge the same as their retailers. Of course, how and why they do business is up to them, but I'd prefer putting the money in the hands of the craftsman rather than a distributor.

What I'm saying is everything is local now. I feel a closer connection to Ranga Pens, Pendemonium, even Mr. Pen in London, and other small pen businesses than Goulet, Goldspot, and Fountain Pen Hospital though I've bought from all three and do appreciate their efforts in the trade.

I've never met in person Mr. Kandan, Sam and Frank, or Peter Ford (Mr. Pen), but their way of doing business suits me and is far more personal than bigger retailers. I'm the same way with eating out. I look for the small Mom and Pop places, the hole-in-the-wall joints, and local hamburger stands as I want them to succeed if they are good. I buy my produce from market stands when available, my bread from a local Polish bakery, and my jams and jellies from a home-grown producer 800 miles away and have it in my hands in less than a week.

Just thought you'd like to know, Jon. Thanks.

Cheers,
Sg

[Jon Szanto]

Just thought you'd like to know, Jon. Thanks.

Indeed. I consider my connections to a business or a venture personal, as well. I really have no particular interest in furthering a giant operation, with the exceptions for when I think that business is doing their level best to better the world around them while at the same time staying in business. I count Sam and Frank among my pen friends, and always make certain they are one of the first places I stop when at a pen show (2 a year, both in CA). They are a great couple and worthy of support. In fact, it is the personal relationships I've developed through pens that have made the hobby so worthwhile.

So it plays out for me that way all around. A small venture like Revival Drum Shop in Portland, or my local Italian trattoria, both places that I know people by name, are places I want to see survive this, and then continue to thrive. If I were to ignore them while knowing I could do *something*, I wouldn't have a good time living with that, so I do what I can. It isn't about sainthood or anything like that, just feeling like giving back somehow during all this. In the pen world there are numerous stories.

I get what you are saying about Goulet and they started the thread, but I first ordered from them in the first few months of their operation. It was really a family thing with just a couple of helpers. That they have grown the business, been successful probably beyond their dreams (though I think BG is very smart in these ways) is not something I feel I need to punish. They still have employees, they still could go under, and an important part of the recent (at least American) pen scene would have taken a hit. Business is business, sure, but at some point it is human beings, as well.

On and on it goes. We can get through this, and taking care of each other is a part of that, for me.

Be well.

[sgphoto]

I'm not knocking Goulet Pens. They've got a few hundred from me so far this year. Goulet Pens puts out some good videos that are informational and some that are simply sales promotions. That's business.

Goulet Pens is taking money now for shipment in the future. Goulet Pens has approximately 40 employees.

But my few hundred doesn't mean as much to them as it would to Ranga Pens and Sam and Frank @ Pendemonium who are taking orders and shipping as soon as possible. Ranga has 4 employees and it's just Sam and Frank.

That's the lucky thing. We all can choose where we spend our money without feeling guilty. I know I do and I bet you do too.

Cheers.
Sg

[Jon Szanto]

But my few hundred doesn't mean as much to them as it would to Ranga Pens and Sam and Frank @ Pendemonium who are taking orders and shipping as soon as possible. Ranga has 4 employees and it's just Sam and Frank.

Oh, we're in total agreement there. The smaller the operation, the more likely they are to get some 'support' from me at a time like this. The larger the place, the higher the likelihood they will have the remnants of an income stream, but smaller operations need each and every order.

So, yeah. Each business needs to do what they can to protect the health of their operation and employees, but just like with donating to charities, I try to be mindful of where my limited contributions will have the maximum impact.

[TSherbs]

But my few hundred doesn't mean as much to them as it would to Ranga Pens and Sam and Frank @ Pendemonium who are taking orders and shipping as soon as possible. Ranga has 4 employees and it's just Sam and Frank.

Oh, we're in total agreement there. The smaller the operation, the more likely they are to get some 'support' from me at a time like this. The larger the place, the higher the likelihood they will have the remnants of an income stream, but smaller operations need each and every order.

So, yeah. Each business needs to do what they can to protect the health of their operation and employees, but just like with donating to charities, I try to be mindful of where my limited contributions will have the maximum impact.I'm doing this with food purchases, using a local farm that has grown in greenhouses this winter (I live in Maine). And they bake shepherd's pie and chicken pot pie and are still selling root vegetables from the fall harvest. We use a local beef producer, too.

But pens? Yeah, no. None. Moratorium for an extended period.

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[Waski_the_Squirrel]

A thing that annoys me - many things annoy me but this is the latest. You're not allowed to take your car and just go for drive in the country. And they say you can take a walk but now they say not more than a couple of kilometers. Why? If you're doing these things and not mixing with other people you're not spreading the virus. It seems to me that coming up with rules like these cast everything else into doubt because they are so utterly illogical.

My feeling on this is that there are 2 reasons:
1. They don't know that you plan to stay in your car. You may be just claiming that.
2. If you are driving, you need to use gas pumps, and can share the virus there.

Speaking personally, my parents own a number of acres about 45 miles from their home. They cut firewood on those acres. They will be driving over there to bring back the firewood all spring, summer, and fall. What do they say if the police stop them? It's all true, but will the police be okay with that?

I live in a sparsely populated part of North Dakota. (And, yes, that's a relative thing.) If I drive out into the country, I could probably go anywhere I want and no one would ever know. I actually plan to do that this weekend. I have no shame about taking my Toyota Camry miles away from paved roads. And, like you, I won't be meeting people to share the virus with them.

[TSherbs]

Waski, your parents are studs.

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[Chrissy]

My feeling on this is that there are 2 reasons:
1. They don't know that you plan to stay in your car. You may be just claiming that.
2. If you are driving, you need to use gas pumps, and can share the virus there.

Speaking personally, my parents own a number of acres about 45 miles from their home. They cut firewood on those acres. They will be driving over there to bring back the firewood all spring, summer, and fall. What do they say if the police stop them? It's all true, but will the police be okay with that?

I live in a sparsely populated part of North Dakota. (And, yes, that's a relative thing.) If I drive out into the country, I could probably go anywhere I want and no one would ever know. I actually plan to do that this weekend. I have no shame about taking my Toyota Camry miles away from paved roads. And, like you, I won't be meeting people to share the virus with them.
As you know, the police will be OK with your parents fetching firewood. :) As far as you driving out into the countryside, you're right, no-one will ever know. As long as you don't meet any heavy handed police officers from Derbyshire UK, who would dob you in, you will probably be OK doing that too. :)
As long as you will only need fuel for your essential food shopping journeys and nothing else, then you shouldn't have a problem with your conscience. :)

[Deb]

A thing that annoys me - many things annoy me but this is the latest. You're not allowed to take your car and just go for drive in the country. And they say you can take a walk but now they say not more than a couple of kilometers. Why? If you're doing these things and not mixing with other people you're not spreading the virus. It seems to me that coming up with rules like these cast everything else into doubt because they are so utterly illogical.

My feeling on this is that there are 2 reasons:
1. They don't know that you plan to stay in your car. You may be just claiming that.
2. If you are driving, you need to use gas pumps, and can share the virus there.

Speaking personally, my parents own a number of acres about 45 miles from their home. They cut firewood on those acres. They will be driving over there to bring back the firewood all spring, summer, and fall. What do they say if the police stop them? It's all true, but will the police be okay with that?

I live in a sparsely populated part of North Dakota. (And, yes, that's a relative thing.) If I drive out into the country, I could probably go anywhere I want and no one would ever know. I actually plan to do that this weekend. I have no shame about taking my Toyota Camry miles away from paved roads. And, like you, I won't be meeting people to share the virus with them.

Good points, Waski. My husband spoke to one of the nurses at dialysis about it and she suggested that it may be because if you had an accident you would be exposing the emergency services to the risk of infection. Here, the government has advised the police to be reasonable in enforcing these powers. I would think your parents' reason for being on the road is a good one.

[sgphoto]

I live one mile from a county park where baseball fields back up to woodlands. It's a great place to walk my dogs as they get different smells and sights. We usually go three-five times a week during the week but never during ball games (I hate crowds). Only three times in three years have I run across someone else with their dogs. With the big area, we never come within 200-300 yards of each other. My dogs are always on the leash.

But, for the last three weeks, we've not gone to the park. There's probably no one there, but it's the 2 miles in between that concern me. If my car should break down, though not likely as it's a Honda and never failed, I and my dogs would need assistance. That assistance is my concern.

So far, I've had no social contact for 15 days - none - and I plan on keeping it that way as long as I can. I have enough food supplies to easily last 2 months or more, enough dog food for a year, medical supplies (gloves, masks, sanitizer, alcohol, bleach, bandages) that should last for the duration. Amazon brings packages to my garage where they remain untouched for a week before opening with gloves.

I'm fortunate that I have a 3/4 acre naturally landscaped yard that's very private, and live in a suburb off the main roads where I can easily walk my dogs. I have a large 6' fenced-in back yard where the dogs can rip and romp and garden spots for vegetables. We walk around the block on rarely travelled roads twice a day. That's a mile the dogs and I enjoy and never have contact with anyone other than waves and occasional shouts at neighbors.

Not being a crowd person for 45 years, I feel no isolation.

I have a nice woodworking shop, telescopes, enjoy birdwatching, reading, opera, classical music, films, cooking, and other sundry things that do not require others. I stay in touch with friends by phone and texting.

Other than not being able to go to the grocery stores and Home Depot once a week, not a lot has changed for me externally.

I realize how lucky I am, but I also understand that I've worked my entire life to be in this position. Understanding Stoicism and Buddhism (non-religious Buddhism) and practicing those thoughts daily has helped place things in perspective.

While the pandemic has raised some anxiety internally, it's more of working on what I can control and understanding what I don't control.

The best thing I can do now is to avoid becoming sick and not taking any unnecessary chances, no matter how slight the risk may be. I'm certain that many who are now sick and will die have wished they'd stayed home, suffered the perceived privations, and stayed safe. Also, imagine being sick and now knowing that you almost certainly passed the virus to others. That's a double blow.

Everyone who doesn't get sick saves the time, space, and needs that the medical community can use elsewhere.

So for as long as I can I'm staying home.

[sgphoto]

A thing that annoys me - many things annoy me but this is the latest. You're not allowed to take your car and just go for drive in the country. And they say you can take a walk but now they say not more than a couple of kilometers. Why? If you're doing these things and not mixing with other people you're not spreading the virus. It seems to me that coming up with rules like these cast everything else into doubt because they are so utterly illogical.

My feeling on this is that there are 2 reasons:
1. They don't know that you plan to stay in your car. You may be just claiming that.
2. If you are driving, you need to use gas pumps, and can share the virus there.

Speaking personally, my parents own a number of acres about 45 miles from their home. They cut firewood on those acres. They will be driving over there to bring back the firewood all spring, summer, and fall. What do they say if the police stop them? It's all true, but will the police be okay with that?

I live in a sparsely populated part of North Dakota. (And, yes, that's a relative thing.) If I drive out into the country, I could probably go anywhere I want and no one would ever know. I actually plan to do that this weekend. I have no shame about taking my Toyota Camry miles away from paved roads. And, like you, I won't be meeting people to share the virus with them.

As a side note, let me say how much I enjoy your Youtube channel. You're interesting, show me pens that otherwise I wouldn't know about, are honest in your thoughts and opinions, and most importantly you're humorous and don't take yourself too seriously. Plus, I can tell you choose rationality and science over superstitions.

You're one of the few pen Youtubers I always watch and enjoy. Thanks.

Cheers.
Sg

[ethernautrix]

My feeling on this is that there are 2 reasons:
1. They don't know that you plan to stay in your car. You may be just claiming that.
2. If you are driving, you need to use gas pumps, and can share the virus there.

Speaking personally, my parents own a number of acres about 45 miles from their home. They cut firewood on those acres. They will be driving over there to bring back the firewood all spring, summer, and fall. What do they say if the police stop them? It's all true, but will the police be okay with that?

I live in a sparsely populated part of North Dakota. (And, yes, that's a relative thing.) If I drive out into the country, I could probably go anywhere I want and no one would ever know. I actually plan to do that this weekend. I have no shame about taking my Toyota Camry miles away from paved roads. And, like you, I won't be meeting people to share the virus with them.

As a side note, let me say how much I enjoy your Youtube channel. You're interesting, show me pens that otherwise I wouldn't know about, are honest in your thoughts and opinions, and most importantly you're humorous and don't take yourself too seriously. Plus, I can tell you choose rationality and science over superstitions.

You're one of the few pen Youtubers I always watch and enjoy. Thanks.

Cheers.
Sg

Plus you seem just... decent. I appreciate that, Waski.

[TSherbs]

I live one mile from a county park where baseball fields back up to woodlands. It's a great place to walk my dogs as they get different smells and sights. We usually go three-five times a week during the week but never during ball games (I hate crowds). Only three times in three years have I run across someone else with their dogs. With the big area, we never come within 200-300 yards of each other. My dogs are always on the leash.

But, for the last three weeks, we've not gone to the park. There's probably no one there, but it's the 2 miles in between that concern me. If my car should break down, though not likely as it's a Honda and never failed, I and my dogs would need assistance. That assistance is my concern.

So far, I've had no social contact for 15 days - none - and I plan on keeping it that way as long as I can. I have enough food supplies to easily last 2 months or more, enough dog food for a year, medical supplies (gloves, masks, sanitizer, alcohol, bleach, bandages) that should last for the duration. Amazon brings packages to my garage where they remain untouched for a week before opening with gloves.

I'm fortunate that I have a 3/4 acre naturally landscaped yard that's very private, and live in a suburb off the main roads where I can easily walk my dogs. I have a large 6' fenced-in back yard where the dogs can rip and romp and garden spots for vegetables. We walk around the block on rarely travelled roads twice a day. That's a mile the dogs and I enjoy and never have contact with anyone other than waves and occasional shouts at neighbors.

Not being a crowd person for 45 years, I feel no isolation.

I have a nice woodworking shop, telescopes, enjoy birdwatching, reading, opera, classical music, films, cooking, and other sundry things that do not require others. I stay in touch with friends by phone and texting.

Other than not being able to go to the grocery stores and Home Depot once a week, not a lot has changed for me externally.

I realize how lucky I am, but I also understand that I've worked my entire life to be in this position. Understanding Stoicism and Buddhism (non-religious Buddhism) and practicing those thoughts daily has helped place things in perspective.

While the pandemic has raised some anxiety internally, it's more of working on what I can control and understanding what I don't control.

The best thing I can do now is to avoid becoming sick and not taking any unnecessary chances, no matter how slight the risk may be. I'm certain that many who are now sick and will die have wished they'd stayed home, suffered the perceived privations, and stayed safe. Also, imagine being sick and now knowing that you almost certainly passed the virus to others. That's a double blow.

Everyone who doesn't get sick saves the time, space, and needs that the medical community can use elsewhere.

So for as long as I can I'm staying home.I'm not sure that it's accurate to assume that we asymptomatic people did not contract and spread this virus before we self-isolated. Perhaps not. But it's not accurate for very many of us to assume that we were not touched by this and did not leave the virus elsewhere. That's the thing with this bug. It is quite stealthy. In fact, I have behaved as if I have it and have assumed that I am as much a potential carrier as the next person. I am asymptomatic, but that is a guarantee of nothing. This is not an us versus them. We are all us.

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[sgphoto]

Ordered a pen and ink today from Sam and Frank @ Pendemonium. They're still shipping and glad to have the business and I'm glad to give them my business.

Some of my best finds with fair prices have come from them the past 16 years. If there's something you need, take a look at their online business and see what you find. They've been around a long time and I want to keep them around.

Cheers.
Sg

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

Thank you everyone for all the comments! I'll pass along to my parents that they are "studs!" Not sure how they'll take that, but I'll reassure them that it's a compliment. They are elderly, and not in touch with the modern world. I still recall when I was 13 or 14 and in the garage with my father. I don't remember what he did, but I recall clearly that he said he, "Pulled a real boner." I remember his face at my laughter. Yes, that phrase meant something quite different in his time. It is now about 30 years later.

I love them, and the hardest thing is to realize that even if I weren't so far away from them, I still would avoid them due to this virus. I feel like I should do more, but I know I couldn't. Does anyone else have this feeling?

This summer, I had planned a few videos about my home and various memories. I was going to be there. At this point, it looks like this will not happen. I hope to be able to film these videos next summer. But I will admit that I've never thought seriously about what it will mean that I don't have parents anymore. At 80 and 73, that time is approaching. To get maudlin for a moment, if they were to pass now, I don't even know if I could attend a funeral. I'm sure lots of people share this with me.

My father is in good health, even though he is the elder of the pair. My mother does have some breathing difficulties.

They still live in the house where we all lived when I graduated high school. I expect that at some point they will move into town, but I know they will resist it as long as possible. My maternal grandparents were the same. They finally gave in when the upkeep on their place surpassed their finances and ability to maintain the place. Nevertheless, I would love at least one last visit home. And, of course, a visit to my brother in New York. He lives only a few hours from them, so I know he can get to them if it is necessary. But, about 21 years later, I do finally realize why it is good to live near family.

[sgphoto]

Take comfort in that your parents know you're a good son, a good man, and that you love them. That's the best reward possible for parents.

[TSherbs]

I feel for you Waski. I live 5 miles from my 89 yr-old mother, but I am not even permitted to deliver things for her. But she is being watched after, so that is taken care of. But this isolation and separation sucks. My sons can't visit my wife and me, either. Blah.

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[Jon Szanto]

I love them, and the hardest thing is to realize that even if I weren't so far away from them, I still would avoid them due to this virus. I feel like I should do more, but I know I couldn't. Does anyone else have this feeling?

Call them, and just talk.

My mom passed away 13 months ago, and she was the last of our 4 elders. Over 25 years, we watched over our parents as each gradually left this realm. Mom was the final chapter, losing her independence and living in assisted living not too far from us. I visited often, not daily but a few times a week, but one thing I tried very hard to do was speak with her every day. Somehow or other it fell into place that i would call around seven every evening. It didn't have to be a lot - Lord knows, she didn't have much to share every day, but I'd tell her about work or this and that, and wished her a good night.

It's been over a year, and I still have that feeling that I can pick up the phone - or should - in the early evening. I almost stop what I'm doing at times, and then realize. I'd love to tell her about things... and I do. Just not over the phone.

So give them a call, Waski. It's such a blessing, something I am certain you already know and appreciate. Embrace those voices while you have the opportunity.

[Deb]

I love them, and the hardest thing is to realize that even if I weren't so far away from them, I still would avoid them due to this virus. I feel like I should do more, but I know I couldn't. Does anyone else have this feeling?

Call them, and just talk.

My mom passed away 13 months ago, and she was the last of our 4 elders. Over 25 years, we watched over our parents as each gradually left this realm. Mom was the final chapter, losing her independence and living in assisted living not too far from us. I visited often, not daily but a few times a week, but one thing I tried very hard to do was speak with her every day. Somehow or other it fell into place that i would call around seven every evening. It didn't have to be a lot - Lord knows, she didn't have much to share every day, but I'd tell her about work or this and that, and wished her a good night.

It's been over a year, and I still have that feeling that I can pick up the phone - or should - in the early evening. I almost stop what I'm doing at times, and then realize. I'd love to tell her about things... and I do. Just not over the phone.

So give them a call, Waski. It's such a blessing, something I am certain you already know and appreciate. Embrace those voices while you have the opportunity.

I emphatically agree with that. My husband's mother died in 2003 and he still catches himself thinking of phoning her, as he did so religiously for years. My own mother is 83, in assisted living in the US while I am in Scotland. The facility she lives in has the virus and the residents are in total lockdown. My sister works as receptionist in same place and is absolutely in the front line. It is extremely frightening and worrying.

Make the most of your parents.

[sgphoto]

Fountain Pen Revolution is open and shipping. I have a Guider ebonite pen arriving from there today.

I wouldn't order from any retailer who is still taking orders but not shipping. That's loaning today's money for a future purchase that may or may not happen. Retailers will (and already have) been discounting prices, but if you buy in at the full price today, you'll stand to potentially lose again.

Prices will go down on pens. Look at the For Sale Forum. Prices are lower, some sellers are desperate to get cash, and still it takes a big discount to move certain pens.

This is the time to wait for discounts as the bottom is still off in the future.

[Runnin_Ute]

This is something that I have a hard time with. My Mother is in a care center and no visitors have been allowed since the week of March 13 (my birthday) which is when I was going to see her that week. At that time due to some work conflicts that caused me to work late I hadn't seen her since the last week of February. She is rarely in her room so calling and speaking to her is almost impossible. She has dementia so doesn't understand why we can't come see her.

I speak to someone on staff about once a week about her. I am able to drop off Diet Coke for her. They have been fortunate and have had no cases among either residents or staff the last time I spoke to someone.

As to purchases? My last purchases were in early March of paper and ink. My last purchase of a pen was before that. I spent roughly $100 on paper products from Goulet, a Vacumatic nib from Five Star Pens, inks from Levenger and other vendors. The Waterman Serenity Blue is no longer sold by Goulet, Anderson or Vanness so I had to go elsewhere to get it. My last bottle was purchased from Goulet.


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[Chemyst]

I agree with your sentiment that small businesses need our support now more than ever before. Absolutely right.
But the operative word is "business." How is it "business" if someone takes your money but you get nothing in return. I'd call that a loan.
Some loans get repaid and some get defaulted.
Every day I am doing something which is supporting our local businesses and I am doing so as best as I can. I am doing more "business" with our local businesses than ever before.
But I'm not giving any of our businesses money in return for an "IOU." From that perspective, I agree with the others.

Something to think about though is that Goulet specifically structured his business in a good faith belief that his relationship with customers was a two-way street.

You may remember that he came before us a few years back and asked what we thought about Goulet Pens adding “Fulfillment by Amazon” to their model. Competitive pricing, distributed shipping and the ability to add orders to your Amazon cart. We stood to lose the meters of packing material, the notes and personalized drawings. People said “no”, they’d rather pay more for the personalized touches.

Of course, if Goulet Pens had “Fulfillment by Amazon” now, they’d still be shipping orders via the Amazon logistics chain. The fact that they are not, is largely based on what FP users asked for. For those same users to drop Goulet as soon as he suffers a logistical hiccup (during a global catastrophe) is a cold way to kill that relationship.

[724Seney]

I agree with your sentiment that small businesses need our support now more than ever before. Absolutely right.
But the operative word is "business." How is it "business" if someone takes your money but you get nothing in return. I'd call that a loan.
Some loans get repaid and some get defaulted.
Every day I am doing something which is supporting our local businesses and I am doing so as best as I can. I am doing more "business" with our local businesses than ever before.
But I'm not giving any of our businesses money in return for an "IOU." From that perspective, I agree with the others.

Something to think about though is that Goulet specifically structured his business in a good faith belief that his relationship with customers was a two-way street.


Maybe he did and maybe he didn't.....
I think he was just looking for a way to enhance his business and endear himself to potential customers.
And, don't get me wrong, there is nothing improper about that..........

But Goulet's approach has nothing to do with my point, which as usual, you have missed by a mile.

Where in any ethical business model, including Goulet's "two way street strategy," is it expected or customary that a customer's purchase is utilized by the business as a long term loan?

Goulet has created a cult. Good for him. Again, I have no issue with that.........
And, in cults, there is always lots of Kool-Aide consumed. And that is an individual's prerogative. And, if they want to pay him not knowing when their purchase will arrive, so be it. It's their money.

All I'm saying is that dealers with far more substantive long term customer satisfaction & relationships have simply not accepted payments for pens or services they cannot provide at the current time.
And, other dealers have carried on, meeting their customer's needs in spite of the pandemic created challenges.
That's where my business is going these days. And, no, they do not use Amazon's fulfillment either........

[sgphoto]

Quoting Chemyst --"You may remember that he came before us a few years back and asked what we thought about Goulet Pens adding “Fulfillment by Amazon” to their model. Competitive pricing, distributed shipping and the ability to add orders to your Amazon cart. We stood to lose the meters of packing material, the notes and personalized drawings. People said “no”, they’d rather pay more for the personalized touches."

I care not one wit about meters of packing material, a note, and personalized drawings. Perhaps Goulet should charge less for those who want a delivery quickly without all those 'extras' and those that want them can pay more for that thrill.

I stopped using Goulet when every order regardless of total price still incurred a ridiculous shipping charge of a minimum of $5-8.00. Other dealers often charge less, give you free shipping above a reasonable total purchase (30-50 dollars), and then ship quickly.

Other dealers, besides offering free shipping, often send not only their 'thanks', but include a 10% discount on a future order. I'll take a 10% discount over a drawing and Tootsie Roll Pop anytime.

I won't say I'll never buy from Goulet Pens again though unlikely, but I will never buy from someone who takes my money on a promise of "Someday Your Pen Will Come." After all, there's plenty of pen dealers who ARE taking orders AND shipping daily.

Goulet's excuse for not shipping doesn't pass muster and reeks of cash flow problems. If Goulet was truly concerned about his customers he'd find a way to do it as other dealers have. Instead, he's earning interest on money, not delivering product, and continuing to take orders.

As to Goulet asking 'FP' users what they want, if you notice Goulet always asks questions to steer you to give the answer he wants then spins it as if he's responsive. Goulet Pens doesn't want Amazon as that would cut into his cherry pie while customers would get better pricing and faster delivery, and with Amazon Prime, they'd get free shipping.

So much for Goulet's generosity It's business - just like television preachers.

[kazoolaw]

Goulet's excuse for not shipping doesn't pass muster and reeks of cash flow problems. If Goulet was truly concerned about his customers he'd find a way to do it as other dealers have. Instead, he's earning interest on money, not delivering product, and continuing to take orders.

You don't like Goulet's business model? Understood.
You don't think Goulet should follow Virginia's shut down of nonessential businesses? Understood.
You don't have any information on the factors supporting Goulet's decision not to ship during this time? Understood.
You don't want to mention that the notice to potential customers that shipping delays may last weeks appears on every page of the website? Understood.
You haven't contacted Goulet to see whether it is processing credit card orders, or cashing checks until any order is fulfilled? Understood.
You don't know how any Goulet employees felt about reporting to work in the face of the pandemic? Understood.
You don't want to acknowledge that every business, be it retail, manufacturing, or professional services, has cash flow "issues" when it is totally shutdown? Understood.
You want to imply that Goulet is disreputable, and dishonest? No, I cannot understand your willingness to do so based on what you've presented thus far. This goes beyond fair comment and the bounds of decency.

[TSherbs]

... For those same users to drop Goulet as soon as he suffers a logistical hiccup (during a global catastrophe) is a cold way to kill that relationship.

I don't think that "relationships" are possible with institutions or businesses. I consider these faux relationships, or modern commercial facsimiles. I consider relationships of the kind you are suggesting here not possible when money/product is the foundation of the exchange, including the extraction of money for profit from one human and then distributed to others. An exchange is being made, a trade. To me, that is not a "relationship" that has much value or commitment or trust or intimacy or openness that is real in any deep way. We err when we conflate commercial trade with any real relationship.

sgphoto was harsh, but I don't disagree with his caution: don't confuse business for profit with anything that is not business for profit. The Goulets, and other consumer retailers, know exactly how shallow consumer tastes and "loyalties" can be when it comes to delays, price increases, service manners, competition from other vendors, etc. No consumer should feel guilt or any kind of qualm about taking their money elsewhere for any reason they please. The portability of our money and purchasing power is part of consumer-based economic freedom. Use it or not, as you please. It is not "cold" to do so; it is exactly what the system is based upon--from the liberated consumer's point of view. Vendors may wish it were otherwise, but they have their own economic interests in mind.

[sgphoto]

Goulet's excuse for not shipping doesn't pass muster and reeks of cash flow problems. If Goulet was truly concerned about his customers he'd find a way to do it as other dealers have. Instead, he's earning interest on money, not delivering product, and continuing to take orders.

You don't like Goulet's business model? Understood.
You don't think Goulet should follow Virginia's shut down of nonessential businesses? Understood.
You don't have any information on the factors supporting Goulet's decision not to ship during this time? Understood.
You don't want to mention that the notice to potential customers that shipping delays may last weeks appears on every page of the website? Understood.
You haven't contacted Goulet to see whether it is processing credit card orders, or cashing checks until any order is fulfilled? Understood.
You don't know how any Goulet employees felt about reporting to work in the face of the pandemic? Understood.
You don't want to acknowledge that every business, be it retail, manufacturing, or professional services, has cash flow "issues" when it is totally shutdown? Understood.
You want to imply that Goulet is disreputable, and dishonest? No, I cannot understand your willingness to do so based on what you've presented thus far. This goes beyond fair comment and the bounds of decency.






I did not say that Goulet is disreputable or dishonest. I have implied that he knows how to play those for whom a Toostsie Roll Pop is the Holy Grail.

There is a smell test I use as I have a nose. Others may not have a nose and be content to wade in a cesspool thinking it's a field of lilacs. I ran a business successfully for over 20 years that allowed me to retire at 58. I'll go with my instincts until I'm proved wrong.

You can buy all you want from Goulet and wait and wait and wait. I bought a pen today from Europe for less than 1/2 of what Goulet sells the pen for. It will be delivered in about five days. Of course, I won't get a Tootsie Roll Pop, meters of packaging, and a drawing and sticker but somehow I'll live as difficult as that lack of fru-fru will be.

[kazoolaw]

Goulet's excuse for not shipping doesn't pass muster and reeks of cash flow problems. If Goulet was truly concerned about his customers he'd find a way to do it as other dealers have. Instead, he's earning interest on money, not delivering product, and continuing to take orders.

You don't like Goulet's business model? Understood.
You don't think Goulet should follow Virginia's shut down of nonessential businesses? Understood.
You don't have any information on the factors supporting Goulet's decision not to ship during this time? Understood.
You don't want to mention that the notice to potential customers that shipping delays may last weeks appears on every page of the website? Understood.
You haven't contacted Goulet to see whether it is processing credit card orders, or cashing checks until any order is fulfilled? Understood.
You don't know how any Goulet employees felt about reporting to work in the face of the pandemic? Understood.
You don't want to acknowledge that every business, be it retail, manufacturing, or professional services, has cash flow "issues" when it is totally shutdown? Understood.
You want to imply that Goulet is disreputable, and dishonest? No, I cannot understand your willingness to do so based on what you've presented thus far. This goes beyond fair comment and the bounds of decency.






I did not say that Goulet is disreputable or dishonest. I have implied that he knows how to play those for whom a Toostsie Roll Pop is the Holy Grail.

There is a smell test I use as I have a nose.
I understood you wouldn't come out and claim Goulet is disreputable or dishonest, because you know that you lack even the slightest of evidence. Rather you insinuate it so you can try to walk away without taking responsibility for your comment as that is your instinctive reaction.

Enjoy your pen. Perhaps giving it some good exercise upon its arrival will be good for the soul.

[sgphoto]

Goulet's excuse for not shipping doesn't pass muster and reeks of cash flow problems. If Goulet was truly concerned about his customers he'd find a way to do it as other dealers have. Instead, he's earning interest on money, not delivering product, and continuing to take orders.

You don't like Goulet's business model? Understood.
You don't think Goulet should follow Virginia's shut down of nonessential businesses? Understood.
You don't have any information on the factors supporting Goulet's decision not to ship during this time? Understood.
You don't want to mention that the notice to potential customers that shipping delays may last weeks appears on every page of the website? Understood.
You haven't contacted Goulet to see whether it is processing credit card orders, or cashing checks until any order is fulfilled? Understood.
You don't know how any Goulet employees felt about reporting to work in the face of the pandemic? Understood.
You don't want to acknowledge that every business, be it retail, manufacturing, or professional services, has cash flow "issues" when it is totally shutdown? Understood.
You want to imply that Goulet is disreputable, and dishonest? No, I cannot understand your willingness to do so based on what you've presented thus far. This goes beyond fair comment and the bounds of decency.






I did not say that Goulet is disreputable or dishonest. I have implied that he knows how to play those for whom a Toostsie Roll Pop is the Holy Grail.

There is a smell test I use as I have a nose.
I understood you wouldn't come out and claim Goulet is disreputable or dishonest, because you know that you lack even the slightest of evidence. Rather you insinuate it so you can try to walk away without taking responsibility for your comment as that is your instinctive reaction.

Enjoy your pen. Perhaps giving it some good exercise upon its arrival will be good for the soul.












I'm not walking away from anything. I stand by my comments. I'll admit I'm wrong when proved wrong.

I'll certainly enjoy my new pen when it soon arrives - that's why I bought it.

You enjoy your Tootsie Roll Pop - if you ever get it.

Cheers.

[kazoolaw]

Goulet's excuse for not shipping doesn't pass muster and reeks of cash flow problems. If Goulet was truly concerned about his customers he'd find a way to do it as other dealers have. Instead, he's earning interest on money, not delivering product, and continuing to take orders.

You don't like Goulet's business model? Understood.
You don't think Goulet should follow Virginia's shut down of nonessential businesses? Understood.
You don't have any information on the factors supporting Goulet's decision not to ship during this time? Understood.
You don't want to mention that the notice to potential customers that shipping delays may last weeks appears on every page of the website? Understood.
You haven't contacted Goulet to see whether it is processing credit card orders, or cashing checks until any order is fulfilled? Understood.
You don't know how any Goulet employees felt about reporting to work in the face of the pandemic? Understood.
You don't want to acknowledge that every business, be it retail, manufacturing, or professional services, has cash flow "issues" when it is totally shutdown? Understood.
You want to imply that Goulet is disreputable, and dishonest? No, I cannot understand your willingness to do so based on what you've presented thus far. This goes beyond fair comment and the bounds of decency.






I did not say that Goulet is disreputable or dishonest. I have implied that he knows how to play those for whom a Toostsie Roll Pop is the Holy Grail.

There is a smell test I use as I have a nose.
I understood you wouldn't come out and claim Goulet is disreputable or dishonest, because you know that you lack even the slightest of evidence. Rather you insinuate it so you can try to walk away without taking responsibility for your comment as that is your instinctive reaction.

Enjoy your pen. Perhaps giving it some good exercise upon its arrival will be good for the soul.












I'm not walking away from anything. I stand by my comments. I'll admit I'm wrong when proved wrong.

I'll certainly enjoy my new pen when it soon arrives - that's why I bought it.

You enjoy your Tootsie Roll Pop - if you ever get it.

Cheers.Innuendo without proof: there is nothing you are right about.
If not a Tootsie Pop I hope you find something to redirect your vitriole.
Maybe writing something uplifting with your new pen.
Be well in your days.

[sgphoto]

You said I didn't grasp the Goulet business model. I do. It's to make money.

You said, "You don't think Goulet should follow Virginia's shut down of nonessential businesses?" Well, Goulet hasn't shut down if he's still taking orders, is he?

You said, "You haven't contacted Goulet to see whether it is processing credit card orders, or cashing checks until any order is fulfilled? " Are you that seriously dense or extremely naive? Come on, people are paying Goulet money.

You said, "You don't want to acknowledge that every business, be it retail, manufacturing, or professional services, has cash flow "issues" when it is totally shutdown? But Goulet isn't shut down - they're taking orders with people paying them. They are using those funds as cash flow. Are you unaware of how businesses work?

Go to the grocery store. Tell them you want groceries, but you'll pay them sometime in the future. But promise them you'll give them a Toosie Roll Pop, a drawing, and meters of packing tape when you do pay them at an unspecified date in the future if you're still around and have money to pay them.

See if the grocery store bites on that stick of baloney.

It's not vitriol - it's an observation. Sorry you have tendencies for snowflakiness but your business skills are sorely lacking.

[TSherbs]

I understood you wouldn't come out and claim Goulet is disreputable or dishonest, because you know that you lack even the slightest of evidence.
]

This wasn't said to me, but I thought in a level-headed way I would respond.

First, I'll address the latter. There is nothing "dishonest" in the action. The policy is transparent and without trickery, unless there is something wrong with the company behind the scenes. Which I highly doubt. But what if the policy knowingly takes advantage of those with strong FOMO?

"Disreputable" it very well may be if the practice tarnishes the company's reputation with a significant number of persons, whether you are among that number or not. If the company recovers and gets its orders out quickly and perhaps offers a bene for having to wait while the order was processed, then reputation will likely not be strained with many people, and certainly not among the fan base on social media where the loyalty is promoted.





Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

[kazoolaw]

You said I didn't grasp the Goulet business model. I do. It's to make money.

You said, "You don't think Goulet should follow Virginia's shut down of nonessential businesses?" Well, Goulet hasn't shut down if he's still taking orders, is he?

You said, "You haven't contacted Goulet to see whether it is processing credit card orders, or cashing checks until any order is fulfilled? " Are you that seriously dense or extremely naive? Come on, people are paying Goulet money.

You said, "You don't want to acknowledge that every business, be it retail, manufacturing, or professional services, has cash flow "issues" when it is totally shutdown? But Goulet isn't shut down - they're taking orders with people paying them. They are using those funds as cash flow. Are you unaware of how businesses work?

Go to the grocery store. Tell them you want groceries, but you'll pay them sometime in the future. But promise them you'll give them a Toosie Roll Pop, a drawing, and meters of packing tape when you do pay them at an unspecified date in the future if you're still around and have money to pay them.

See if the grocery store bites on that stick of baloney.

It's not vitriol - it's an observation. Sorry you have tendencies for snowflakiness but your business skills are sorely lacking.

This will have to be our last conversation**, as you've taken to misstatement instead of fact.
My comment was that you didn't "like" Goulet's marketing, not that you didn't "grasp" it. Either you didn't read my post, or don't think others will.
My state has a shut-down order in place. Working remotely [I was sure you'd heard of that, but maybe not] allows working from home but prevents my staff from coming in. Kind of like communicating with Goulet electronically, but its staff not being permitted to come into the business and work. Not processing charges until a product is available has been done before by retailers, even in pre-pendemic times.
"Come on...." That has never been an argument based on facts, but an argument people make when there are no supporting facts. Show me your proof that Goulet is banking cash, processing credit card charges, or cashing checks. By the way, are you familiar with trust or escrow accounts?
You can try to distract with calling me a snowflake-leaning bad businessman. Your personal jibes are only your attempts to distract from the weakness and inaccuracy of your statements.
In light of your latest response I'll stick with vitriol.
Be well.

**And all the other FP Geeks gave a collective sigh of relief.

[sgphoto]

"**And all the other FP Geeks gave a collective sigh of relief."

Not before many of them have had a good laugh at your willful naivete and ignorance of business.

[724Seney]

It is too bad this has gotten to be "personal" for kazoolaw and sgphoto. Both make valid points but their plan to cease & desist is probably for the best.

The fact is this pandemic is awful; it has created death and economic devastation. How can one's heart not go out to anyone who has been impacted.

BUT, life does go on and, for those of us who have ongoing needs to support our fountain pen use, how can we not become partial to those who have figured out a way to continue to get us what we need?

Goulet could do it; they are at no more of a disadvantage than are the many who are still doing it. Their "halfway" approach of taking our money but not providing the goods is simply unacceptable. They should sail for one shore or the other; either deliver the goods, as promised, or not accept any orders or payments.

There is no "two way street" element to Goulet's current strategy. It is "One way, my way!"

[kazoolaw]

Let's be clear: prove that Goulet is taking and spending customer money and I'll agree the practice is wrong.

Say you suspect that and I understand.

Claim it's a fact without proof and I'll stand on my earlier posts.

[724Seney]

Let's be clear: prove that Goulet is taking and spending customer money and I'll agree the practice is wrong.

Say you suspect that and I understand.

Claim it's a fact without proof and I'll stand on my earlier posts.

Look pal, you may have sucked sgphoto into a pissing contest but you are not going to take me there.

Who care what you suspect or I suspect?

Go to their website, (or is that not sufficient "proof?") they make it very clear that they have been accepting orders for several weeks with no shipments made. Their most recent update is that they are beginning to make a limited number of shipments now but they have a "large backlog" (their words, not mine) of orders to have to work through.

[kazoolaw]

Is there a difference between taking an order and processing payment?

I don't mind what you suspect. Suspicion is not proof of fact.

[sgphoto]

From Goulet Pens after an inquiry. "If I place an order is my credit card charged today or when you ship the pen?
Thanks."


"I hope this finds you and yours well.

When you place your order your card is charged, this reserves your item(s) for you removing them form our inventory, and it reserves your place in shipping as well.

Here is the latest shipping update: we’re very excited to say that we currently have one person in the office to adapt our processes to safely and (very gradually) scale up our order fulfillment. There are a lot of precautions we will be taking to make sure that safety remains top priority for everyone!

Right now, we’re only able to send out a small amount of packages each week. While we are working through the backlog of orders in chronological order, it will still take a while to get caught up.We cannot give an exact time frame, but we anticipate 3-4 weeks currently.

Any new new orders placed will still see weeks-long delays until they ship out, and we will be shipping those orders out in the order in which they were received like we always do!

You can read more about the original pause in our blog post from 3/18/20 outlining the pause in shipping and the official update page here will have more information as we can share it.

I'm sorry about the delay and greatly appreciate your understanding, patience and flexibility!

Be well and write-on,

Susan
The Goulet Pen Company"

I think this is the proof you have requested. How do you like your Crow - boiled or fried?

Cheers.

[kazoolaw]

No crow, but I am glad that you understand the concept of proof.

And, as I said, I think this is a poor policy to accept pay,net without the ability to deliver a product: not a "purchase" I would make.

Glad to have been of help.

[724Seney]

Glad to have been of help.

Seriously??

Your unwillingness to make even a small, modest apology.....when an apology is more than indicated..... is appalling!
But, quite frankly, not at all surprising.

[TSherbs]

Glad to have been of help.

That's a stretch.

If you were interested in anything other than an argument, you could have checked yourself. Goulet certainly had never claimed that they were not processing purchase payments. I assume that when I make an online purchase anywhere, when I confirm it, the payment request goes through and is not contingent on packaging or mailing. I am nearly always charged before the item is packaged and sent. You never acknowledged this and for some reason defended the opposite as if only proof to the contrary would be adequate to establish the veracity of common, nearly universal practice. Goulet never said they weren't processing purchase payments because they were. This was pretty clear to several of us. Not sure what "help" to the thread your insistence and tone were. It didn't seem necessary, esp since sgphoto was clearly just saying how he didn't like the practice. Even if it is only the appearance of the practice, customers don't have to like it. Here, as in many cases, appearance was reality because it is the common practice to process the payment when the customer confirms it via the payment software interface.

Again, as I stated above, perhaps this vendor will try to do something for those who have and will continue to wait so long after paying. And will see if it matters to the company reputation.



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[kazoolaw]

My sincere apology. I was advancing no position, but rather pushing for proof of otherwise unsupported claims.

Clearly, doing so was not done in an understandable fashion, for which I accept responsibility.

Let me offer virtual Tootsie Pops all around.

[sgphoto]

If you're apologizing to me, I accept and it's done.

[724Seney]

My sincere apology. I was advancing no position, but rather pushing for proof of otherwise unsupported claims.

Clearly, doing so was not done in an understandable fashion, for which I accept responsibility.

Let me offer virtual Tootsie Pops all around.
Well done kazoolaw!

[NobleSixSeven]

European retailers are selling pens and shipping in 2-3 day international for free for a certain total price purchase. And 9/10 times its cheaper than Goulet/Goldspot/etc..

[sgphoto]

European retailers are selling pens and shipping in 2-3 day international for free for a certain total price purchase. And 9/10 times its cheaper than Goulet/Goldspot/etc..

I ordered a Pelikan m1000 Monday from Cult Pens for 3-400 less than the best US prices. It will be here Thursday shipped free via DHL.

Why spend more?

[TSherbs]

Why spend more?

Doesn't higher price mean greater value? Isn't that a mantra of the pen world? "You get what you pay for." I know, I know....

[NobleSixSeven]

European retailers are selling pens and shipping in 2-3 day international for free for a certain total price purchase. And 9/10 times its cheaper than Goulet/Goldspot/etc..

I ordered a Pelikan m1000 Monday from Cult Pens for 3-400 less than the best US prices. It will be here Thursday shipped free via DHL.

Why spend more?

+1
Screw these US distributors marking up pen prices to exorbitant prices.




Why spend more?

Doesn't higher price mean greater value? Isn't that a mantra of the pen world? "You get what you pay for." I know, I know....

Oh you! You almost had me there...

[LeFreak]

Hmm. Charging a consumer's credit card before shipping the product is a violation of most credit card processing merchant service agreements.

When I was a retailer , Visa and Mastercard would have suspended my merchant account for that.

(I closed the business in 2018,so were not talking ancient history here)

[Chuck Naill]

Hmm. Charging a consumer's credit card before shipping the product is a violation of most credit card processing merchant service agreements.

When I was a retailer , Visa and Mastercard would have suspended my merchant account for that.

(I closed the business in 2018,so were not talking ancient history here)

Yes, I agree. It would not be something I would do in order to be in a line ahead of others for the possibility of shipping. While I understand that these times are a challenge, the risk shouldn't be one sided.

[sgphoto]

I'm not defending Goulet Pens' policy, but since there's warnings about shipments being delayed for the foreseeable future it could be argued that those who place orders have been informed and have chosen to give their money to Goulet now.

I would not do so myself as that's a crapshoot on 'if and when' delivery, but I do believe what Goulet is doing is legal.

In an ethical sense, taking money and NOT shipping when other pen companies are, is the problem. Goulet isn't dumb - he knows the value of using OPM (other people's money) to mitigate cash flow situations.

Nonetheless, those who go for the Goulet spin obviously enjoy that financial arrangement of pay now and collect later (much later).

[dneal]

In an ethical sense, taking money and NOT shipping when other pen companies are, is the problem. Goulet isn't dumb - he knows the value of using OPM (other people's money) to mitigate cash flow situations.


I don’t usually shop Goulet’s site, but seriously? Ohio’s stay at home order was pretty strict, and I think has been extended til the end of May.

Do you have firsthand knowledge that Goulet is “unethically” using OPM to “mitigate cash flow situations”? Or are you just tossing accusations via insinuation?

While I agree with an earlier poster that usually credit card company agreements don’t want you to charge until you’re ready to ship, there’s nothing unethical about what Goulet is doing. It’s public info, and people are free to enter into a transaction or not. If he tanks and doesn’t refund, or doesn’t ship, or something else where he doesn’t hold up his end of the arrangement... then we can talk about ethical. Right now there’s no real reason think he’s just gobbling up people’s money, which is the insinuation woven through this thread. It’s just conjecture.

[ethernautrix]

I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

[silverlifter]

I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

Yep. You pay the full amount. For a place in the queue... :)

[guyy]

Meanwhile other retailers are shipping. So what are you paying for? The pleasure of doing business with Goulet? A Tootsie pop?

[Lloyd]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200516/c6d03a65a5c897d8c54888d3bbf27416.jpg

[Chuck Naill]

I'm curious if Goulet is reading this thread and rethinking?

[NobleSixSeven]

I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

The difference is that you know upfront that there is a 6 month to 1 year wait period for a CUSTOM MADE PEN. Goulet isnt out here making pens from scratch. They just put it in a box and ship it. Lets not equivocate the two when we obviously know the difference.

[dneal]

I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

The difference is that you know upfront that there is a 6 month to 1 year wait period for a CUSTOM MADE PEN. Goulet isnt out here making pens from scratch. They just put it in a box and ship it. Lets not equivocate the two when we obviously know the difference.

Yeah, because Goulet isn't letting you know up front that there will be a delay... :/

Dude, you really seem to have an axe to grind with Goulet.

[NobleSixSeven]

European retailers are selling pens and shipping in 2-3 day international for free for a certain total price purchase. And 9/10 times its cheaper than Goulet/Goldspot/etc..

I ordered a Pelikan m1000 Monday from Cult Pens for 3-400 less than the best US prices. It will be here Thursday shipped free via DHL.

Why spend more?




I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

The difference is that you know upfront that there is a 6 month to 1 year wait period for a CUSTOM MADE PEN. Goulet isnt out here making pens from scratch. They just put it in a box and ship it. Lets not equivocate the two when we obviously know the difference.

Yeah, because Goulet isn't letting you know up front that there will be a delay... :/

Dude, you really seem to have an axe to grind with Goulet.

I have no axe to grind since I do not buy from them anymore since I discovered EU retailers. I am merely pointing out that the previous poster is comparing custom pen makers to a retailer that has to just ship the item instead of make it from scratch.

[dneal]

Yes, and you're emphasizing a minor detail that you think disproves their point. The only difference is why there is a delay from ordering to shipping. One is manufacture. The other is a fucking pandemic that shut down the world. "But, but, but SOME retailers are shipping!!!!", you'll say; and that continues to ignore the specifics of Ohio and Goulet's situation. Could Brian and his wife ship like Edison is doing? Sure. Did they choose not to? Yep. Did they clearly let their patrons know that? Yep.

"So what", indeed.

Nothing more to see here.

[724Seney]

I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

The difference is that you know upfront that there is a 6 month to 1 year wait period for a CUSTOM MADE PEN. Goulet isnt out here making pens from scratch. They just put it in a box and ship it. Lets not equivocate the two when we obviously know the difference.

Yeah, because Goulet isn't letting you know up front that there will be a delay... :/

Dude, you really seem to have an axe to grind with Goulet.

This from the individual who likely invented the machine which grinds axes!! Sheesh!!!!

[dneal]

I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

The difference is that you know upfront that there is a 6 month to 1 year wait period for a CUSTOM MADE PEN. Goulet isnt out here making pens from scratch. They just put it in a box and ship it. Lets not equivocate the two when we obviously know the difference.

Yeah, because Goulet isn't letting you know up front that there will be a delay... :/

Dude, you really seem to have an axe to grind with Goulet.

This from the individual who likely invented the machine which grinds axes!! Sheesh!!!!

Was that really necessary? How long are you going to carry a grudge for something that you weren't involved in? Are you wanting to pick a fight, or are you just incapable of refraining from interjecting yourself into things that don't concern you?

It's like having our own Gladys Kravitz. Just can't mind your own business.

54092

[NobleSixSeven]

European retailers are selling pens and shipping in 2-3 day international for free for a certain total price purchase. And 9/10 times its cheaper than Goulet/Goldspot/etc..

I ordered a Pelikan m1000 Monday from Cult Pens for 3-400 less than the best US prices. It will be here Thursday shipped free via DHL.

Why spend more?





I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

The difference is that you know upfront that there is a 6 month to 1 year wait period for a CUSTOM MADE PEN. Goulet isnt out here making pens from scratch. They just put it in a box and ship it. Lets not equivocate the two when we obviously know the difference.

Yeah, because Goulet isn't letting you know up front that there will be a delay... :/

Dude, you really seem to have an axe to grind with Goulet.

This from the individual who likely invented the machine which grinds axes!! Sheesh!!!!

LOL he clearly does. He's just butthurt from other threads.


Yes, and you're emphasizing a minor detail that you think disproves their point. The only difference is why there is a delay from ordering to shipping. One is manufacture. The other is a fucking pandemic that shut down the world. "But, but, but SOME retailers are shipping!!!!", you'll say; and that continues to ignore the specifics of Ohio and Goulet's situation. Could Brian and his wife ship like Edison is doing? Sure. Did they choose not to? Yep. Did they clearly let their patrons know that? Yep.

"So what", indeed.

Nothing more to see here.

The issue is announcing that they are not shipping orders after charging the customers who had already bought items before they made the announcement. The people who ordered the weeks leading upto the day of their announcement were charged money and had their packages held. They shouldve been refunded, but they were not. No one is talking about people who knowingly bought things after they made the announcement. Jeez, its really sad that people have to literally spell things out for you.

[dneal]

So many mouthy newbies... two thumbs down.

[724Seney]

I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

The difference is that you know upfront that there is a 6 month to 1 year wait period for a CUSTOM MADE PEN. Goulet isnt out here making pens from scratch. They just put it in a box and ship it. Lets not equivocate the two when we obviously know the difference.

Yeah, because Goulet isn't letting you know up front that there will be a delay... :/

Dude, you really seem to have an axe to grind with Goulet.

This from the individual who likely invented the machine which grinds axes!! Sheesh!!!!

Was that really necessary? How long are you going to carry a grudge for something that you weren't involved in? Are you wanting to pick a fight, or are you just incapable of refraining from interjecting yourself into things that don't concern you?

It's like having our own Gladys Kravitz. Just can't mind your own business.

54092

If rather than lashing out, a reflex typical of your unbearable behavior, you had taken the time to review this thread you would have seen I had every reason to be here by virtue of having made several, fact based, posts.. The fact is we disagree about what Goulet has done. Perhaps I should have just made that point and not commented upon the obvious irony of your axe grinding comment. Everyone realized it anyway........

It may be that what Goulet has done is not a crime in the eyes of the judicial system but, apparently, it flies in the face of the agreement they have with the credit card companies. Plus, it is just flat out cheesy. Why in the world anyone would pay their top dollar to get their money deposited into a Goulet account for an indeterminate time is beyond me. Especially when they can get the identical pen for less money from a retailer who is every bit as impacted by the pandemic as is Goulet, you or me.

You are the one who pick fights, not me, not NobleSixSeven, not sgphoto. In fact I am convinced that you base your opinion on any given matter fully on the basis of what constitute an opposing view to the person you have chosen to prey upon....... Had any of us been supportive of Goulet you, most assuredly, would have composed a post opining about Goulet's awful practices. A sick way of finding some joy in your day.

I take no offense by your insinuation that because I have fewer posts here or registered on the Forum after you that you are wiser and more knowing than I am. Perhaps that is correct, I don't know. But I am absolutely amazed that after all the years & number of offensive, crude, bullying, misogynistic and boorish posts that someone hasn't found a way to toss your sorry ass out of here.

[NobleSixSeven]

So many mouthy newbies... two thumbs down.

OK Boomer

[dneal]

I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

The difference is that you know upfront that there is a 6 month to 1 year wait period for a CUSTOM MADE PEN. Goulet isnt out here making pens from scratch. They just put it in a box and ship it. Lets not equivocate the two when we obviously know the difference.

Yeah, because Goulet isn't letting you know up front that there will be a delay... :/

Dude, you really seem to have an axe to grind with Goulet.

This from the individual who likely invented the machine which grinds axes!! Sheesh!!!!

Was that really necessary? How long are you going to carry a grudge for something that you weren't involved in? Are you wanting to pick a fight, or are you just incapable of refraining from interjecting yourself into things that don't concern you?

It's like having our own Gladys Kravitz. Just can't mind your own business.

54092

If rather than lashing out, a reflex typical of your unbearable behavior, you had taken the time to review this thread you would have seen I had every reason to be here. The fact is we disagree about what Goulet has done. Perhaps I should have just made that point and not commented upon the obvious irony of your axe grinding comment. Everyone realized it anyway........

It may be that what Goulet has done is not a crime in the eyes of the judicial system but, apparently, it flies in the face of the agreement they have with the credit card companies. Plus, it is just flat out cheesy. Why in the world anyone would pay their top dollar to get their money deposited into a Goulet account for an indeterminate time is beyond me. Especially when they can get the identical pen for less money from a retailer who is every bit as impacted by the pandemic as is Goulet, you or me.

You are the one who pick fights, not me, not NobleSixSeven, not sgphoto. In fact I am convinced that you base your opinion on any given matter fully on the basis of what constitute an opposing view to the person you have chosen to prey upon....... Had any of us been supportive of Goulet you, most assuredly, would have composed a post opining about Goulet's awful practices. A sick way of finding some joy in your day.

I take no offense by your insinuation that because I have fewer posts here or registered on the Forum after you that you are wiser and more knowing than I am. Perhaps that is correct, I don't know. But I am absolutely amazed that after all the years & number of offensive, crude, bullying and boorish posts that someone hasn't found a way to toss your sorry ass out of here.

You're confusing "lashing out" with responding to snarky and snide comments in kind.

Want to talk about axes to grind? You're the Paul Bunyan that seems to carry around the grudge. The only exchanges I've had with you are in response to your incessant need to be some type of "forum police". You initiate that, not me. Earlier in this thread you were admonishing/shaming kazoolaw.

You have like 40 posts. That has nothing to do with longer or wiser, it has to do with nobody fucking knows who you are other than someone who insists on introducing or fomenting drama. Do an ink review. Tell us about a pen you like. For the love of god stop telling everyone how you think they should or shouldn't act. Take that shit back to reddit or FPN.

Want to have a civil discussion? Be civil. Want to be an ass? Let's get it on. Makes no difference to me, and that's kind of the point of the hands off moderation. Since you claim to have browsed years of my post history, please point out personal attacks I've made - like your hypocritical "sorry ass" comment - then find where I instigated it vs where I responded.

I await the apology I'm owed from you with bated breath... :/

[sgphoto]

For the record, Goulet Pens is in Virginia.

Work was never prohibited by the Governor. From the Executive Order 55 (2020)
"Individuals may leave their residences for the purpose of: f. Traveling to and from one’s residence, place of worship, or work;

Post Offices remained open.

[724Seney]

I paid in full for my last Nakaya when I placed the order a couple of years ago, directly through Nakaya's website. The estimated up-to-six-months' wait was about half that.

Point is: some people pay up front for a pen and have to wait.... Some wait as long as a year, or longer. I believe Conid charges upfront, too.

The difference is that you know upfront that there is a 6 month to 1 year wait period for a CUSTOM MADE PEN. Goulet isnt out here making pens from scratch. They just put it in a box and ship it. Lets not equivocate the two when we obviously know the difference.

Yeah, because Goulet isn't letting you know up front that there will be a delay... :/

Dude, you really seem to have an axe to grind with Goulet.

This from the individual who likely invented the machine which grinds axes!! Sheesh!!!!

Was that really necessary? How long are you going to carry a grudge for something that you weren't involved in? Are you wanting to pick a fight, or are you just incapable of refraining from interjecting yourself into things that don't concern you?

It's like having our own Gladys Kravitz. Just can't mind your own business.

54092

If rather than lashing out, a reflex typical of your unbearable behavior, you had taken the time to review this thread you would have seen I had every reason to be here. The fact is we disagree about what Goulet has done. Perhaps I should have just made that point and not commented upon the obvious irony of your axe grinding comment. Everyone realized it anyway........

It may be that what Goulet has done is not a crime in the eyes of the judicial system but, apparently, it flies in the face of the agreement they have with the credit card companies. Plus, it is just flat out cheesy. Why in the world anyone would pay their top dollar to get their money deposited into a Goulet account for an indeterminate time is beyond me. Especially when they can get the identical pen for less money from a retailer who is every bit as impacted by the pandemic as is Goulet, you or me.

You are the one who pick fights, not me, not NobleSixSeven, not sgphoto. In fact I am convinced that you base your opinion on any given matter fully on the basis of what constitute an opposing view to the person you have chosen to prey upon....... Had any of us been supportive of Goulet you, most assuredly, would have composed a post opining about Goulet's awful practices. A sick way of finding some joy in your day.

I take no offense by your insinuation that because I have fewer posts here or registered on the Forum after you that you are wiser and more knowing than I am. Perhaps that is correct, I don't know. But I am absolutely amazed that after all the years & number of offensive, crude, bullying and boorish posts that someone hasn't found a way to toss your sorry ass out of here.

You're confusing "lashing out" with responding to snarky and snide comments in kind.

Want to talk about axes to grind? You're the Paul Bunyan that seems to carry around the grudge. The only exchanges I've had with you are in response to your incessant need to be some type of "forum police". You initiate that, not me. Earlier in this thread you were admonishing/shaming kazoolaw.

You have like 40 posts. That has nothing to do with longer or wiser, it has to do with nobody fucking knows who you are other than someone who insists on introducing or fomenting drama. Do an ink review. Tell us about a pen you like. For the love of god stop telling everyone how you think they should or shouldn't act. Take that shit back to reddit or FPN.

Want to have a civil discussion? Be civil. Want to be an ass? Let's get it on. Makes no difference to me, and that's kind of the point of the hands off moderation. Since you claim to have browsed years of my post history, please point out personal attacks I've made - like your hypocritical "sorry ass" comment - then find where I instigated it vs where I responded.

I await the apology I'm owed from you with bated breath... :/

:pound:

[dneal]

For the record, Goulet Pens is in Virginia.

Work was never prohibited by the Governor. From the Executive Order 55 (2020)
"Individuals may leave their residences for the purpose of: f. Traveling to and from one’s residence, place of worship, or work;

Post Offices remained open.

Shows how much attention I've paid to Goulet over the last decade, but thanks for the clarification.

[NobleSixSeven]

For the record, Goulet Pens is in Virginia.

Work was never prohibited by the Governor. From the Executive Order 55 (2020)
"Individuals may leave their residences for the purpose of: f. Traveling to and from one’s residence, place of worship, or work;

Post Offices remained open.

Shows how much attention I've paid to Goulet over the last decade, but thanks for the clarification.

It’s ok. Boomers have trouble with the internet and geography.

[dneal]

For the record, Goulet Pens is in Virginia.

Work was never prohibited by the Governor. From the Executive Order 55 (2020)
"Individuals may leave their residences for the purpose of: f. Traveling to and from one’s residence, place of worship, or work;

Post Offices remained open.

Shows how much attention I've paid to Goulet over the last decade, but thanks for the clarification.

It’s ok. Boomers have trouble with the internet and geography.

If you're trying to be insulting, you're going to have to do better than that. Even if I were a boomer (I'm not), that effort is pitiful.

[kazoolaw]

It’s ok. Boomers have trouble with the internet and geography.

You might be too limited in your opinion of Boomers.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ok-boomer-deadliest-submarine-monster-lurking-deep-116191

[kazoolaw]

Tip of the Hat to NumberSix on FPN

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maneetahuja/2020/05/12/forbes-small-giants-25-companies-that-believe-smaller-is-better/#4feff4b61432

[scroll to end of article.]

[TSherbs]

Tip of the Hat to NumberSix on FPN

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maneetahuja/2020/05/12/forbes-small-giants-25-companies-that-believe-smaller-is-better/#4feff4b61432

[scroll to end of article.]

No one doubts their ability to make money. Even during a shutdown when they aren't shipping product. ;)

Their latest announcement said the delay for most order shipments will be "several weeks", as in several weeks more.

Hey, I don't mind if people make orders with them and then wait. I wouldn't do it. But I don't mind if others agree to the arrangement. I also don't mind if people here in a tiny corner of the internet spout off in their disagreement with it. No one has to like it or shut up about it either. Maybe this is how they can keep paying employees on furlough. I don't know. But we don't even have to agree with that, either. The only real "vote" that matters is where our purchase money goes.

[Jon Szanto]

Boomers have trouble with the internet and geography.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Sir_Tim_Berners-Lee_%28cropped%29.jpg/330px-Sir_Tim_Berners-Lee_%28cropped%29.jpg

Timothy John Berners-Lee
Born: June,3 1955 (age 64)

[dneal]

Rekd (or whatever these new tangled hipsters say...)

[NobleSixSeven]

lol

[Ray-VIgo]

I live a couple hours northeast of NYC and the area just south of here is an epicenter of cases. There has been a great deal of confusion - some businesses closed, others were partially open, others stayed open but with new requirements (masks, 6-feet apart, etc.). Local government runs the gamut - some town halls are totally closed, others "by appointment", and still others are open by with limited capacity.

The governor created a list of "essential" businesses, but the "essential categories" were somewhat vague and quite broad, some businesses interpreted the list in varying ways. Some restaurants accepted the conversion to take-out, some closed entirely, some closed but then re-opened to take-out. I've reached the point that, if it's "open" then I might place an order, if it's "closed" or "not processing", then I pass for the time being. Things are chaotic enough here that I just take whether a place is "open" or not as it comes.

[sgphoto]

Fortunately, some restaurants don't make you pay upfront and tell you you'll get a meal weeks later if and when they want you to get that meal.:)

[Ray-VIgo]

If you hold a gift card in a restaurant, that's exactly what you have though now. It might be open, might be closed and reopen later, might not reopen at all. Stores here are the same way - some of them are open and some have closed entirely. Some others are putting goods on tables out in the parking lot. If you have a gift card there, your money is tied up that way and you don't know what's happening at this point. I wouldn't opt for a pay-in now, get later kind of thing, but I'm risk averse in that way. I can see someone chancing it and figuring they could make out OK in the end - there are people who are willing to risk it that way. Their choice, I guess.

What I would not expect is to have the consumer protection division of the state AG's office get involved if things go sideways. At least here, the AG is pretty busy with some real stinkers that go way beyond being able to get involved with legitimate stores. Our state has had a rash of coronavirus-related fraud schemes surface. Just recently the AG closed down a guy who was selling coronavirus "test kits" at his convenience store. Turned out the so-called "tests" did nothing at all. Which is to say, if you don't buy, then you don't get anything. If you buy, you take your risk and are probably on your own if it doesn't work out, the way things are.

[Jon Szanto]

If you hold a gift card in a restaurant, that's exactly what you have though now.

With my two favorite local restaurants, this is what I did. I went and purchase a couple of gift cards so that they had some operating capital to keep staff employed, help pay bills, etc. I hope they make it and when things are safe I'll go back and have some nice meals. If they go under, at least they had a little bit more to sustain them before they had to close. These are people I've enjoyed knowing and had some great life moments with and I am happy to do this small thing for them.

I may be able to use that gift card in the future, but either way it was money well spent. Fuck the cynics.

[sgphoto]

If you hold a gift card in a restaurant, that's exactly what you have though now. It might be open, might be closed and reopen later, might not reopen at all. Stores here are the same way - some of them are open and some have closed entirely. Some others are putting goods on tables out in the parking lot. If you have a gift card there, your money is tied up that way and you don't know what's happening at this point. I wouldn't opt for a pay-in now, get later kind of thing, but I'm risk averse in that way. I can see someone chancing it and figuring they could make out OK in the end - there are people who are willing to risk it that way. Their choice, I guess.

What I would not expect is to have the consumer protection division of the state AG's office get involved if things go sideways. At least here, the AG is pretty busy with some real stinkers that go way beyond being able to get involved with legitimate stores. Our state has had a rash of coronavirus-related fraud schemes surface. Just recently the AG closed down a guy who was selling coronavirus "test kits" at his convenience store. Turned out the so-called "tests" did nothing at all. Which is to say, if you don't buy, then you don't get anything. If you buy, you take your risk and are probably on your own if it doesn't work out, the way things are.

That's the reason I never buy or give gift cards from local businesses, only from Amazon. If they need my cash flow to stay in business they're already a bad risk. If given a gift card from anywhere I use it as soon as possible.

There are those who will spout off about the 'good' they're doing by taking a crapshoot. Just never pay attention to them for financial or economic advice.

[VertOlive]

Boomers have trouble with the internet and geography.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Sir_Tim_Berners-Lee_%28cropped%29.jpg/330px-Sir_Tim_Berners-Lee_%28cropped%29.jpg

Timothy John Berners-Lee
Born: June,3 1955 (age 64)

Some days it’s good to be alive!

[TSherbs]

There are those who will spout off about the 'good' they're doing by taking a crapshoot. Just never pay attention to them for financial or economic advice.

Ha. Word. But everyone's free to do what they want with their own money.



Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

[Ray-VIgo]

Speaking of financial advice, I have kind of a funny story/diversion about that. I used to work at a small non-profit organization some years ago. They were based in an old victorian row house and they had this maintenance/building super type guy who was a friend of one of the executives. The first time I met him, it was late winter and he was wearing a ski coat and cargo shorts while shoveling snow and doing building maintenance. He'd occasionally chew on or smoke a cigar he'd gotten from a friend who had a small store a few blocks away.

He had this really disheveled appearance - was a big guy with an unkempt beard down to his chest, beat-up trucker hat, old clothes. He was in his mid-60s and basically looked like an oddjob/hobo type of guy. He kept odd hours - he'd arrive at work about 4:30 in the morning and leave by 2:30 or so. He drove this old minivan that had all but one seat removed - it was basically a driver's seat in a shell of a vehicle. He lived in the basement of a wealthy friend's house and acted as a caretaker there when he wasn't the maintenance/building guy at this non-profit where I was working.

But I kid you not, it turned out he had a master's degree and he was an avid investor in the stock market. I only realized this after talking to him for awhile one day. He read Barron's newspaper; Wall Street Journal; and watched maybe 2-hours of CNBC on a daily basis because he was so into the market and investing. He kept a list of stocks on scraps of paper in his pocket - his library was torn scraps of random paper all put into a coat pocket. He turned out to have an extraordinary knowledge of the market and its trends. He actually had a fair amount of money stashed up from investing over the years... but he never did anything with it. It sat in accounts or went back into the market. He had basically opted-out of what one would consider a "normal way" where you own a house, have a couple cars, maybe go on vacation somewhere. He also was one of the few people I knew who actually managed to make money during on the market during the downturn about 11-12 years ago. He had an ability to follow the market and predict things that you'd never expect from just looking at him.

[Noodler]

I, too, made a recent small purchase from Sam and Frank's Pendemonium.
They are delightful persons with whom to engage; efficient; polite, honest, and sincere.
I will continue supporting Pendemonium as they are the real "deal"!
Paul

[Noodler]

As for the Goulets, they are fine people who provide a great service.
Brian Goulet's videos are, in my opinion, second to none,except some of SBRE Brown's.
As for orders, under the new terms, - - each person must decide.
Paul

[Chuck Naill]

Best financial advice I ever got, 35 years ago, came from several who said to reduce debt including the late Larry Burkett. It occurred to me once that I shouldn't focus on making more, but spending less. This resulted in buying used cars, and used clothes, paying off the mortgage, and using the 401K system. The children never had a student loan, and they drove $5k cars which required only liability insurance. I could go on.

One reason I love this hobby is that excellent writing tools are readily available for less than a six pack of good beer. Nothing wrong with buying a $1000 pen if you can pay cash.

I also wouldn't give my money to anyone for the possibility of a later shipment. I doubt they have anything in their inventory that I couldn't find somewhere else.

[sgphoto]

Best financial advice I ever got, 35 years ago, came from several who said to reduce debt including the late Larry Burkett. It occurred to me once that I shouldn't focus on making more, but spending less. This resulted in buying used cars, and used clothes, paying off the mortgage, and using the 401K system. The children never had a student loan, and they drove $5k cars which required only liability insurance. I could go on.

One reason I love this hobby is that excellent writing tools are readily available for less than a six pack of good beer. Nothing wrong with buying a $1000 pen if you can pay cash.

I also wouldn't give my money to anyone for the possibility of a later shipment. I doubt they have anything in their inventory that I couldn't find somewhere else.

Shame on you! You're the reason Nieman Marcus, J.C. Penny's, J. Crew, and all the others are going bankrupt because YOU didn't spend (charge) your hard-earned money for things you didn't need. How can you sleep at night, you capitalist pig. Think of all the poor now unemployed clerks who won't have saved a dime while working, bought useless trinkets, and charged all their credit cards to the max for cigarettes, Jack Daniels, the latest clothes for nightclubs, and vacations to Disneyland they couldn't possibly afford.

Shame! Shame! Shame! Why don't you make a contribution to the Future Unemployed Clerks Klan so they can continue to live above their means? They need another tattoo, piercing, and cab fare to the club! Where's your social commitment to wokeness and financial equality for those that haven't a clue?

Though I do think you sleep quiet well without the Sword of Big-Spender Damocles hanging over your head!

Cheers!
Sg

[Ray-VIgo]

Best financial advice I ever got, 35 years ago, came from several who said to reduce debt including the late Larry Burkett. It occurred to me once that I shouldn't focus on making more, but spending less. This resulted in buying used cars, and used clothes, paying off the mortgage, and using the 401K system. The children never had a student loan, and they drove $5k cars which required only liability insurance. I could go on.

One reason I love this hobby is that excellent writing tools are readily available for less than a six pack of good beer. Nothing wrong with buying a $1000 pen if you can pay cash.

I also wouldn't give my money to anyone for the possibility of a later shipment. I doubt they have anything in their inventory that I couldn't find somewhere else.

Yeah, persistence goes a long way - you'll sometimes see classic, vintage pens sold for very little money if you look in the right places and keep periodically visiting and hunting. And one of my favorite jackets is an old, very nice canvas barn coat with a leather collar and removable lining. I purchased it for $20 from a computer repair guy who was just getting rid of extra stuff. It's crazy how if you look, you'll sometimes strike gold in unexpected places.

[Chuck Naill]

Best financial advice I ever got, 35 years ago, came from several who said to reduce debt including the late Larry Burkett. It occurred to me once that I shouldn't focus on making more, but spending less. This resulted in buying used cars, and used clothes, paying off the mortgage, and using the 401K system. The children never had a student loan, and they drove $5k cars which required only liability insurance. I could go on.

One reason I love this hobby is that excellent writing tools are readily available for less than a six pack of good beer. Nothing wrong with buying a $1000 pen if you can pay cash.

I also wouldn't give my money to anyone for the possibility of a later shipment. I doubt they have anything in their inventory that I couldn't find somewhere else.

Shame on you! You're the reason Nieman Marcus, J.C. Penny's, J. Crew, and all the others are going bankrupt because YOU didn't spend (charge) your hard-earned money for things you didn't need. How can you sleep at night, you capitalist pig. Think of all the poor now unemployed clerks who won't have saved a dime while working, bought useless trinkets, and charged all their credit cards to the max for cigarettes, Jack Daniels, the latest clothes for nightclubs, and vacations to Disneyland they couldn't possibly afford.

Shame! Shame! Shame! Why don't you make a contribution to the Future Unemployed Clerks Klan so they can continue to live above their means? They need another tattoo, piercing, and cab fare to the club! Where's your social commitment to wokeness and financial equality for those that haven't a clue?

Though I do think you sleep quiet well without the Sword of Big-Spender Damocles hanging over your head!

Cheers!
Sg

I did contribute to the well being of two state universities....LOL!!

[Sailor Kenshin]

Best financial advice I ever got, 35 years ago, came from several who said to reduce debt including the late Larry Burkett. It occurred to me once that I shouldn't focus on making more, but spending less. This resulted in buying used cars, and used clothes, paying off the mortgage, and using the 401K system. The children never had a student loan, and they drove $5k cars which required only liability insurance. I could go on.

One reason I love this hobby is that excellent writing tools are readily available for less than a six pack of good beer. Nothing wrong with buying a $1000 pen if you can pay cash.

I also wouldn't give my money to anyone for the possibility of a later shipment. I doubt they have anything in their inventory that I couldn't find somewhere else.

Shame on you! You're the reason Nieman Marcus, J.C. Penny's, J. Crew, and all the others are going bankrupt because YOU didn't spend (charge) your hard-earned money for things you didn't need. How can you sleep at night, you capitalist pig. Think of all the poor now unemployed clerks who won't have saved a dime while working, bought useless trinkets, and charged all their credit cards to the max for cigarettes, Jack Daniels, the latest clothes for nightclubs, and vacations to Disneyland they couldn't possibly afford.

Shame! Shame! Shame! Why don't you make a contribution to the Future Unemployed Clerks Klan so they can continue to live above their means? They need another tattoo, piercing, and cab fare to the club! Where's your social commitment to wokeness and financial equality for those that haven't a clue?

Though I do think you sleep quiet well without the Sword of Big-Spender Damocles hanging over your head!

Cheers!
Sg

Nieman Marcus is going out of business? 😱

[sgphoto]

"Nieman Marcus is going out of business?

Bankruptcy as of May 7, 2020. Businesses that have excessive debt will be falling like flies. Perhaps they should. It's like restaurant owners who continued to expand their restaurants and add new locations but didn't have money in case of something happening. They too should go out of business or cut their losses to survive. Not be bailed out for poor planning.

So too will the average person with excessive debts unless they get bailed out by the government to continue their bad habits.

It's like pen people who bought expensive pens on credit, paying top dollar, and are now finding that market severely depressed and are unable to sell most of those pens for 50-60% of what they paid.

Now, people who have saved money can buy used expensive pens for far less than they could a year ago. Look at the 'Sell" forum for example.

People and businesses make their choices and should rise or fall by those choices. It's called responsibility.

[724Seney]

"Nieman Marcus is going out of business?

Bankruptcy as of May 7, 2020. Businesses that have excessive debt will be falling like flies. Perhaps they should. It's like restaurant owners who continued to expand their restaurants and add new locations but didn't have money in case of something happening. They too should go out of business or cut their losses to survive. Not be bailed out for poor planning.

So too will the average person with excessive debts unless they get bailed out by the government to continue their bad habits.

It's like pen people who bought expensive pens on credit, paying top dollar, and are now finding that market severely depressed and are unable to sell most of those pens for 50-60% of what they paid.

Now, people who have saved money can buy used expensive pens for far less than they could a year ago. Look at the 'Sell" forum for example.

People and businesses make their choices and should rise or fall by those choices. It's called responsibility.


The people you describe, sadly, learned nothing from the financial crisis of 2008
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana 1905

[sgphoto]

Many times it's not that they don't remember, it's willful ignorance, stupidity, and their personal feeling of entitlement. Plus, the social 'wokeness' crowd always willing to bail them out (with other people's money, of course).

That's the failure of financial socialism. Taking from those who were frugal, worked hard, saved, and lived below their means to give to those who did none of those things.

[azkid]

The people you describe, sadly, learned nothing from the financial crisis of 2008
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana 1905

I wonder where folks learn about managing money?

My grandmother was a master of frugality and saving, having started out dirt poor with one and only one dress in high school and getting a bookkeeping job after and managing to save up a considerable amount. My mom was frugal too and saved a lot on a teacher's salary (dad didn't make much usually). They were able to put me through college which saved me from being saddled with student loan debt.

For kids unfortunate enough to be born to parents who are bad at pinching pennies and saving... Do we expect all of them to pick it up on their own?

I'm sure some can but I wouldn't be where I am if I had not had parental instruction.

I wonder if fewer people would've lost so much if money management, mortgages, etc., were part of public education. Maybe it is now. My kids' school does some training along these lines in 5th grade. I never got that at any grade level.

If we did provide that kind of instruction then it probably wouldn't have been as easy for predatory lenders to have their way and it would've been harder for the folks with extra capital to buy up foreclosed houses.

[Sailor Kenshin]

The people you describe, sadly, learned nothing from the financial crisis of 2008
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana 1905

I wonder where folks learn about managing money?

My grandmother was a master of frugality and saving, having started out dirt poor with one and only one dress in high school and getting a bookkeeping job after and managing to save up a considerable amount. My mom was frugal too and saved a lot on a teacher's salary (dad didn't make much usually). They were able to put me through college which saved me from being saddled with student loan debt.

For kids unfortunate enough to be born to parents who are bad at pinching pennies and saving... Do we expect all of them to pick it up on their own?

I'm sure some can but I wouldn't be where I am if I had not had parental instruction.

I wonder if fewer people would've lost so much if money management, mortgages, etc., were part of public education. Maybe it is now. My kids' school does some training along these lines in 5th grade. I never got that at any grade level.

If we did provide that kind of instruction then it probably wouldn't have been as easy for predatory lenders to have their way and it would've been harder for the folks with extra capital to buy up foreclosed houses.

I didn't grow up with any financial instruction, and it was a mess. In fact, we ran into big trouble a couple of times. Then I discovered The Tightwad Gazette. I earned a Black Belt.

[sgphoto]

People can be given lessons in finances, but it eventually (as it always does) comes down to personal responsibility. With four generations of entitlement many parents have no idea of personal responsibility. It's always been handouts for sloth with no incentives to improve.

In many cases public schools teach 'social justice' and its tenants of 'You Owe Me Whatever I Say You Owe Me' rather than ethics, morality, and the need for hard work to succeed.

I wouldn't have any child of mine in public schools today.

[countrydirt]

In many cases public schools teach 'social justice' and its tenants of 'You Owe Me Whatever I Say You Owe Me' rather than ethics, morality, and the need for hard work to succeed.

I wouldn't have any child of mine in public schools today.

Well, at least that's what your version of the media wants you to believe. I'm a public school teacher and I've never taught anything like that. In fact, I spend quite a bit of time teaching about personal responsibility, work ethic, doing the right thing, personal financial management and actual ethics and to be a wise consumer of information. Educated consumers of information make a better society and don't accept one person's rants as gospel, regardless of political or economic persuasion.
Thank goodness I'm retiring in the next 6 years. The uneducated attacks on public schools and teachers (yes there are some bad ones) with a broad brush and the parroting of political campaign slogans that fit on a bumper sticker have made this profession not as noble as it once was.

[guyy]

Many times it's not that they don't remember, it's willful ignorance, stupidity, and their personal feeling of entitlement. Plus, the social 'wokeness' crowd always willing to bail them out (with other people's money, of course).

That's the failure of financial socialism. Taking from those who were frugal, worked hard, saved, and lived below their means to give to those who did none of those things.

“Financial socialism” ?

The people getting bailed out in 2008 were the rich, German banks, Wall Street firms and so on. The people who gave them the bailout were politicians committed to the preservation of the status quo, which was and is very much capitalist.

If you consider any redistribution to be “socialist”, what do you consider capitalism, which is among other things, one mode of distributing the social surplus.

[sgphoto]

Many times it's not that they don't remember, it's willful ignorance, stupidity, and their personal feeling of entitlement. Plus, the social 'wokeness' crowd always willing to bail them out (with other people's money, of course).

That's the failure of financial socialism. Taking from those who were frugal, worked hard, saved, and lived below their means to give to those who did none of those things.

“Financial socialism” ?

The people getting bailed out in 2008 were the rich, German banks, Wall Street firms and so on. The people who gave them the bailout were politicians committed to the preservation of the status quo, which was and is very much capitalist.

If you consider any redistribution to be “socialist”, what do you consider capitalism, which is among other things, one mode of distributing the social surplus.

Bank bailouts, Wall Street bailouts, all those bailouts are not capitalism, rather they are a form of socialism by a government again taking from others to support their 'corporate buddies.' Capitalism is not the same thing though in truth not many actually know what real capitalism is and confuse it with the wrongs of corporations and big business. Government support of Corporate Cronyism is as much a fault as the socialism of unearned entitlements.

I'm opposed to bailouts whether to a restaurant or bank.

[TSherbs]

Sg, it's one thing to oppose bailouts. It's another to take a blind swipe at teachers. I am one, too, for 35 years now. I'm gonna let this aspersion pass this time. I don't know what you do for a living, but my guess is that if you told us, we might be able to take some tiredworn swipes at it, too. Which we shouldn't.

But please don't pick this fight here.

I'm am not opposed to bailouts in principle. Just to some in practice. I do chose, for example, to help out family members in time of need. Not always, but sometimes. Depends on the particulars. I feel the same way about govt bailouts. Some do "promote the general welfare" of the nation.



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[sgphoto]

I don't get my views from the media. I don't trust any of the major news outlets from Fox to CNN. They are agenda-driven political entities, not looking for the truth but to propagandize.

I'm sorry as I could have worded my comments about public schools better. I was raised in public school where teachers could actually teach, didn't have federal guidelines to march in step with, and schools were safe for students and teachers.

I don't see that today. There are good teachers. But in many cases, they spend more time fighting social administrators, worthless parents, the security of students, etc, than doing what they can do best which is teaching.

I'm fortunate that I grew up in an era where teachers controlled the classroom, taught their subjects, and didn't have to put up with the constant intrusions of social correctness.

There are good teachers in public schools, but I still wouldn't send my kids to public school today. Not because of the teachers, but the rest of the conditions.

My apologies to those who think I was insulting teachers. I'm not.

[TSherbs]

Gov't protection of business started long before whatever time you seem to be referring to. Gov't even sided with business and sent troops to maraud and break up strikes. That's not a "bailout" in terms of a loan or cash payout, but it is another form of support that costs money and resources. Our police forces' main purpose is to guard property (including business) owners against violence, damage, and theft. Education, health, and training can be seen as gigantic personnel infrastructures to provide businesses with functional and productive workers (certainly from, say, 1850-1930, this was the purpose of its expansion). Business (manufacturing, trade, commerce) have been supported by government for centuries. The history of slavery in the US is one of the clearest examples of government sanctioned support of business (agri-business, in this case) and "property" owners. The 1808 clause is one of the greatest "bailouts" in the history of the country (in its support of a form of business in a region of the country).

Cost-free loans from gov't clearly raise your ire, but they exist on a continuum of government support (via money, resources, incentives) that has no clear divisions and has existed for a long time, even back into what you might consider to be "better times." There were no "better times." Basically, the poor and the laboring classes have been shafted for centuries, purposefully and pointedly. Our US experiment in "democracy" was barely that. It's real intent was to support business at the expense of the poor laborer with little regard for their lives. These "bailouts" are not a corruption of civic values; they are just a revealing of the true nature of American society: make shit and sell it to make the owners of property wealthy.

[TSherbs]

And I'll say this: capitalism, in spite of its virtues (there are a few), is a rigged game of dodgeball where the less fortunately-born are clumped together, trained to a mediocre level in the rules, indoctrinated in false virtues of the game, and then not permitted to band together to defeat the other side. They are given worse food, worse training, and worse air to breathe and water to drink, they are told it is their fault that they are weaker, and then the ball is deflated each time it is their turn to throw. When they want to change the rules of the game to make it more just, they are told to do it at the voting booth, but then election day in most of their neighborhoods is a work day and they will be docked pay if they miss or the booths will be closed at 8pm if the lines are too long. Or one party or the other will have tried to cut up their districts into further dodgeball games whose outcomes are already statistically guaranteed. The other side has police and gleaming white teeth. And the other side gets half the points that the poor side earns for themselves (that's called "profits").

And that is capitalism.

[sgphoto]

I did not state that old times were better. Governments of all stripes have always supported businesses with other people's money. B

You mentioned that you could, if you chose to, bailout your relatives. That's a personal decision you make. But you can do so with your own money. You have no right to make me bailout your relatives with my money. That's what governments do to a greater or lesser extent with the force of arms behind it.

I can accept pooling resources to support police, military, courts, certain infrastructures with support provided that there's good oversight (which is lacking). Public roads are a form of socialism that I understand and have little problems with. But there are now products that can make roads last longer, stay in better shape, safer, and long-term cost-effective, but the road-building lobby who makes big profits from not using such materials and want to keep the staus-quo going by supporting politicians who won't allow such products to come to fruition.

I'm not a right-winger at all. Nor am I an illogical lefty. I want the liberty to choose and to suffer the consequences of my actions, good or bad.

Protecting people from the consequences of their bad actions repeatedly does no one any good. Charity as such is not charity if it's forced upon a non-willing contributor.

Should Goulet get a bailout? Should a restaurant get a bailout? How about all the out-of-work musicians, should they get a bailout?

Why?

As this conversation has devolved, I'm stopping here. Others may continue, but I'm done.

[TSherbs]

I did not state that old times were better. ...

Not directly, no. But you did blame schools for their teachings over the decades, which is the same refrain used by so many who want to blame the "socialist" growth of the government since about 1932 and the dawn of the New Deal and then the development of new teaching techniques and university departments over the 60s and 70s and the rise of Dr. Spock and the softening of parenting since 1952, etc. I know you didn't mention these specifically, but both countrydirt and I heard the same dogwhistle tune in the air. You brought it up, and we responded. Old dogs still respond to those whistles, I guess. We're not so wise yet not to get our hackles up. I'm not quite ready yet to retire, either...thanks to COVID.

[dneal]

You guys should take this discussion to the political forum.

[azkid]

People can be given lessons in finances, but it eventually (as it always does) comes down to personal responsibility.

Of course.

Since everyone is responsible for their finances, and since most of us would be better off if more people were financially competent, public education should teach financial skills and knowledge.


With four generations of entitlement many parents have no idea of personal responsibility. It's always been handouts for sloth with no incentives to improve.

I have no idea what this even means. Is this the old chestnut about "poor people are poor because they are lazy?" That's a load of malarkey in my experience.


In many cases public schools teach 'social justice' and its tenants of 'You Owe Me Whatever I Say You Owe Me' rather than ethics, morality, and the need for hard work to succeed.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here but regarding that last phrase, "rather than..."

My experiences have been that students are required to earn their grades. And I see only reinforcement of ethics and morality. That's how it's been for my kid, how it was for me, how my mom did it in the classroom for 30+ years and how my sister in law for several years she's taught.

[TSherbs]

Of course.

Since everyone is responsible for their finances, and since most of us would be better off if more people were financially competent, public education should teach financial skills and knowledge.


With four generations of entitlement many parents have no idea of personal responsibility. It's always been handouts for sloth with no incentives to improve.

I have no idea what this even means. Is this the old chestnut about "poor people are poor because they are lazy?" That's a load of malarkey in my experience.


In many cases public schools teach 'social justice' and its tenants of 'You Owe Me Whatever I Say You Owe Me' rather than ethics, morality, and the need for hard work to succeed.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here but regarding that last phrase, "rather than..."

My experiences have been that students are required to earn their grades. And I see only reinforcement of ethics and morality. That's how it's been for my kid, how it was for me, how my mom did it in the classroom for 30+ years and how my sister in law for several years she's taught.

Thanks for saying so. And for me, too (I'm in my 35th year). Every class period, every day, is an exercise in ethical behavior reinforcement. And very likely the children fall short of perfect at about the same rate as their teachers and their parents do. Seems like we all have work to do.

[Chuck Naill]

Large families where competition among siblings exists is much different than families with one or two children. You don’t need to learn to share if you are an only child at home. You don’t go without because there are others with more important needs. Older children learn to help with the little ones. Becoming others oriented is a slow process, but I think so valuable.

[Deb]

This thread meandered through a number of issues but one strand was that pen prices will fall due to the coronavirus pandemic. I don't often buy new pens so I don't know what's happening there. Restored pens and pens for restoration prices are not falling on UK eBay. I rather hoped they would as that would give me a chance to build up stock but they're staying as high as they ever were. Damn it.

[TSherbs]

It takes longer than this to reduce prices on this kind of inventory. A few people are unloading some pens. But I haven't seen a retailer budging one bit. Nor on eBay for anything I commonly search.

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[Empty_of_Clouds]

This and the now-locked by a 'just dipped super moderator' thread at FPN prompted a couple of thoughts.

Firstly, even though I have bought a couple of items from Goulet, I have found, even from the very start, that their company promotion was nauseatingly cheesy, but figured it was probably done to tie with some aspect of American sentimentality.

Secondly, and rather more broadly, I don't know if this is true, but it seems that these days the majority of fountain pen promotion is done by retailers (non-exclusive ones I mean) rather than manufacturers. A lot of advertising from the 'golden era' of fountain pens was done by the manufacturers. Parker, Wahl, Sheaffer and so on, all ran advertising campaigns. Sure there were also store adverts, such as the Sears versions. I cannot recall seeing a contemporary advert for a fountain pen, either on TV, Internet or print media, for any brand. I accept that a factor involved in this is geographic separation, but I spend a fair bit of time on the internet, and given my interest in FPs would imagine that my data would sooner or later trigger a targeted pen advert. None so far.

[silverlifter]

MB still advertise pretty aggressively in media for their target market: glossy magazines and airport displays.

[TSherbs]

.

Firstly, even though I have bought a couple of items from Goulet, I have found, even from the very start, that their company promotion was nauseatingly cheesy, but figured it was probably done to tie with some aspect of American sentimentality.

The more family-oriented Christian side of the coin that has Nathan Tardif's irrascible patriotism on the other side.



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[Brgphilly]

Mark Twain had a memorable quote “it’s not the things I don’t know that gets me in trouble, it’s the things I do know that aren’t so”.

[guyy]

The more family-oriented Christian side of the coin that has Nathan Tardif's irrascible patriotism on the other side.





They always turned me off too, but i could never put my finger on why. Maybe that’s it.

Even if i don’t like his inks and stronglydisagree with his politics, Nathan doesn’t bother me as much. I had a few pen conversations with him way back when. Maybe it’s that connection.

[welch]

This and the now-locked by a 'just dipped super moderator' thread at FPN prompted a couple of thoughts.

Secondly, and rather more broadly, I don't know if this is true, but it seems that these days the majority of fountain pen promotion is done by retailers (non-exclusive ones I mean) rather than manufacturers. A lot of advertising from the 'golden era' of fountain pens was done by the manufacturers. Parker, Wahl, Sheaffer and so on, all ran advertising campaigns. Sure there were also store adverts, such as the Sears versions. I cannot recall seeing a contemporary advert for a fountain pen, either on TV, Internet or print media, for any brand. I accept that a factor involved in this is geographic separation, but I spend a fair bit of time on the internet, and given my interest in FPs would imagine that my data would sooner or later trigger a targeted pen advert. None so far.

I vaguely remember a Waterman fountain pen TV commercial from the mid-90's. It tried to promote a Waterman pen as a luxury gift. Someone probably named "Muffy" talks about her prep-school boyfriend: "He had a pony named [Something_cute, as preppy dressed boy rides pony], retriever named [Something_cute_2, as pre-teen floppy haired boy plays with dog], a polo pony named [Something_cute_3, teen-aged boy], a Morgan named [something, film of car], but he'd never had a Waterman pen! How could I know he'd been so deprived!"

Nauseating commercial that disappeared soon.

That's the last I can remember. It's the market. There is no market for fountain pens.

Here is what it was like about 1960, when Jimmy Durante sold Sheaffers on his weekly show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE7xaKZf9Ew

[INeedAFinancialAdvisor]

This and the now-locked by a 'just dipped super moderator' thread at FPN prompted a couple of thoughts.

Secondly, and rather more broadly, I don't know if this is true, but it seems that these days the majority of fountain pen promotion is done by retailers (non-exclusive ones I mean) rather than manufacturers. A lot of advertising from the 'golden era' of fountain pens was done by the manufacturers. Parker, Wahl, Sheaffer and so on, all ran advertising campaigns. Sure there were also store adverts, such as the Sears versions. I cannot recall seeing a contemporary advert for a fountain pen, either on TV, Internet or print media, for any brand. I accept that a factor involved in this is geographic separation, but I spend a fair bit of time on the internet, and given my interest in FPs would imagine that my data would sooner or later trigger a targeted pen advert. None so far.

I vaguely remember a Waterman fountain pen TV commercial from the mid-90's. It tried to promote a Waterman pen as a luxury gift. Someone probably named "Muffy" talks about her prep-school boyfriend: "He had a pony named [Something_cute, as preppy dressed boy rides pony], retriever named [Something_cute_2, as pre-teen floppy haired boy plays with dog], a polo pony named [Something_cute_3, teen-aged boy], a Morgan named [something, film of car], but he'd never had a Waterman pen! How could I know he'd been so deprived!"

Nauseating commercial that disappeared soon.

That's the last I can remember. It's the market. There is no market for fountain pens.

Here is what it was like about 1960, when Jimmy Durante sold Sheaffers on his weekly show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE7xaKZf9Ew

Thanks for posting the PFM commercial! It's awesome.

here is your waterman's commercial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFVvlozI_M4

[welch]

Yes!!! That's exactly the commercial! After I happened across Jimmy Durante, I went looking for the Waterman. I see they were pushing a Waterman ballpoint, rather than a fountain pen. Having to look again...is that a Hemisphere? Probably from a time when Waterman was trying to beat Montblanc into a luxury ballpoint market.

About the time of this Waterman commercial, we were being given, and were giving to our customers, Cross ballpoint pen and pencil sets with the GE logo. In gradations, of course: important customers and our senior managers got gold sets, first-time customers got gray or black-matte sets, and we would get them if we were on the call. And so on.

Very big deal managers were beginning to "wear" Monblanc Meisterstuck ballpoints. We began to see a lot of them by the mid-90's, along with business people carrying the Financial Times, which suggested FT was more thoughtful than the Wall Street Journal. All carried in a new sort of boxy leather briefcase.

As senior techies, we were encouraged to carry heavy black ballpoints whenever we met customers. A Waterman would have been "technology class" in the late '90's. (By 2005 or so, it seemed as if more and more fats-track managers were carrying throw-away ballpoints, maybe as a statement that "I don't need a Montblanc to show high-status"...)