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Tracy Lee
July 8th, 2013, 07:25 PM
Hi Pelikan experts! I am thinking that for the DC pen show I will keep my eyes open for a Pelikan. I don't own one, but I know they are good pens. I like a large or oversized pen of modern ilk, no vintage. I may not want to spend over, say $500 or $600 (less is good too) but I would like some recommendations about a particular model that is pretty fantastic. I am usually a medium to broad nib person, even stub, so if there is guidance on nib size in the brand I will happily be educated on that as well. You know, "the medium writes like a broad" or something like that. Need some "tools" in my tool belt. Also, if there are specific questions I should ask while shopping, or generally any other information you think I should know, I am all eyes. I appreciate the help.

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tandaina
July 8th, 2013, 07:38 PM
I'm a Pelikan person, don't know about expect.

But one of the reasons I like Pelikans is because I have NEVER found a model of Pelikan that isn't a SOLID great pen. They're just reliable. If you like BIG or oversized you are probably looking at M800s or M1000s. I know nada about those pens as I'm a small pen person myself, anything over an M600 is too big for my hand. But go looking for 800s or 1000s and try them at the show! Those pens have fabulous nibs as well. :)

Tracy Lee
July 8th, 2013, 08:07 PM
Thank you, noted on my little listy thing. :-)

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Tony Rex
July 8th, 2013, 10:25 PM
I totally agree with tandaina that size should be your first priority. I reckon the 1000 is a desk pen, 800 a standard large executive pen, 600 as normal maximum size I'd go, 100/200/400 are my ideal everyday, and 300 the smallest. And you gotta find which one you like best size wise and take it from there. If you like big, watch out for: 800 brown tortoise, 1005 black, demos, etc. If you like small: the white tortoise, lizard, etc. and the whole heap of vintage 100s, 400nn, 500, etc. I am a bloke but I prefer a small and light pen but fancy, kinda like a man jewelry.

I like mango pudding
July 9th, 2013, 12:32 AM
for that amount of coin, you could pick up an M800 tortoise.

Jon Szanto
July 9th, 2013, 12:46 AM
It is a shame you aren't interested in vintage, though. While the modern pens are well-made, the nibs from the earlier eras can't be beat. Since you are going to the DC show, I'd be surprised if Rick Propas wasn't there. Be sure to see him and his pens, and talk to him about your options. I don't think there is anyone who knows more about Pels, both modern and vintage.

Eh, no matter what you get, it's gonna be nice. :)

Tracy Lee
July 9th, 2013, 04:34 AM
Thanks all, Rick is on my list to go see, the M800 Tortoise is now on there as one to look at for sure. Thanks again!

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reprieve
July 9th, 2013, 06:44 AM
I agree with those who suggested the M800 tortoise--it's such a gorgeous pen. The M1000 is indeed large, but it would feel quite at home next to some of your Viscontis; the nib is springy as well, which I like much better than the stiffer M8xx nibs.

Unfortunately, vintage Pelikans are relatively small (especially if you're used to oversized modern pens). But if you could handle an M400NN, for example, the nib might very well be worth a compromise on size. A vintage Pelikan broad nib or OB nib can't be beat; they're stubbish, usually flexible, and are delightful to write with. Some of my favorite nibs.

tandaina
July 9th, 2013, 07:05 AM
I'm a huge vintage Pelikan nib evangelist. They are some of the best nibs ever made, hands down. My 400 tortoise came with an OBB nib that is unbelievable. Stunning nib. Rick will steal you straight. Tell him what you like, how you write and then trust his recommendation. He paired me with that OBB and he was right!

Remember that Pelikan nibs are swappable, and the sizes are consistent through their history, so old nibs will go in new pens and visa versa. (Use a little care as plastic parts can shrink but i have yet to run into one that doesn't fit.) have a few new Pelikans whose nibs are in storage, they wear the antique nibs cause they really are unbeatable.

tandaina
July 9th, 2013, 07:06 AM
Stear, not steal!

jar
July 9th, 2013, 07:46 AM
"Large pen" can be pretty relative so here are a few pictures of various Pelikans with other pens which may help.

First, Montblanc 146 and 800:

http://www.fototime.com/6B6FF17A1DEF814/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/D38EB63E4BC42C9/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/949C974B4583612/medium800.jpg

Here with a variety of pens. The two on the far right are an OMAS Paragon (old style) and an 800. The blue Pel is a 600 between an old style OMAS Milord an a Sheaffer oversize Balance.

http://www.fototime.com/C331E2650405260/medium800.jpg

Tracy Lee
July 9th, 2013, 08:52 AM
Thank you, very helpful indeed. Very clear size differences there, the 800 appealing to me quite a lot more in terms of size.

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tandaina
July 9th, 2013, 09:31 AM
A different size comparison:

I don't have an M800 cause it is just too big and heavy for my hand, but I do have a TWSBI 540 which I'm told is similar in size (less metal so likely lighter though). The TWSBI at least isn't really usable with the cap posted, WAY too back heavy so the M400 is really USEABLY the same size:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5505/9249351782_9dd30ca255_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/9249351782/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/9249351782/) by JoAndRoses (http://www.flickr.com/people/84377112@N05/), on Flickr

And crappy picture but here they are both posted. There is a big size difference here:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5463/9249347160_2dfb244ea7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/9249347160/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/9249347160/) by JoAndRoses (http://www.flickr.com/people/84377112@N05/), on Flickr

So there's that. Not sure if that helps or not. I think once you get your hands on some of the smaller Pelis you might be surprised just how comfy and useable they are.

ransky
July 9th, 2013, 10:07 AM
I have a Pelikan M800 brown tortoise with a fine nib. While the pen is very nice, solid, etc.., the nib is frankly not very exciting. It does what it should, but it has a distinct lack of character that's hard to describe. It's currently sitting in my pen box at home, unable to win a place in my daily rotation. I believe others have felt this way about the M800 nibs as well, but it's certainly my experience. Food for thought.

tandaina
July 9th, 2013, 10:21 AM
Do any antique nibs fit in the M800 or is it too big? That would solve the BLAH nib instantly!

Tony Rex
July 9th, 2013, 10:31 AM
There were 14C 800 nibs, but have been discontinued and now rare.

PS: The 800 and 1000 have their own sizes, the 400/600 nibs are too small for them.

tandaina
July 9th, 2013, 10:37 AM
There were 14C 800 nibs, but have been discontinued and now rare.

PS: The 800 and 1000 have their own sizes, the 400/600 nibs are too small for them.

Well that makes it even easier for me to skip those sizes then. Anything that can't take my 50's OBB flex nib? Not a contendor. :)

peterpen53
July 9th, 2013, 11:00 AM
Do any antique nibs fit in the M800 or is it too big? That would solve the BLAH nib instantly!

I don't know about antique, but there are some older M800 nibs that should be more interesting.

Tracy, knowing you're a Visconti person here are some (verbal) comparisons:
- the M1000 body is exactly as tall as a Bronze Homo Sapiens', but the nib is seriously larger. Also note that the M1000 nibs are very different from those on the other sizes, in that they are much softer and springier. I would say softer than a Visconti Pd nib.
- the M800 body is a tad shorter than the Bronze Homo Sapiens', the nibs are equal in size. If you have the chance I would recommend looking for one with an 80's or 90's nib, as they have more spring and particularly the broader sizes (or the obliques) tend to have a more stub-like character. I have a rather delightful 600-size BB nib in one of my City series' pens. Modern nibs tend to be rather stiff and more round. But then no nibs can be more easily exchanged than Pelikans.
If you are going for the M800 tortoise, be aware there are two different editions, the current one, with a somewhat uninteresting stock nib (as referred to in an earlier post). Its colours make a cooler impression (in the sense of colour temperature) and they contain more gray. And there is the edition from (I believe) the 90's, which apparently was intended for the Spanish market only, and therefore very limited and hard to get. The colours are noticeably warmer (especially side-by-side) and contain almost no gray, BUT the price tag will surely spring your budget by a wide margin.
I agree with Tandaina that vintage Pelikan nibs are superb and should you decide to try one, despite they're being much smaller, from my own experience I would suggest a 140 or a 400NN with anything from a B or OB nib upwards.
Happy hunting!

Cheers,
Peter

Laura N
July 9th, 2013, 12:37 PM
Jar's pictures are so helpful. Let me also emphasize that the M800 (and I'm sure the M1000) are notable in terms of weight. For instance, I enjoy both the MB 146 and the Omas Paragon, as well as the Parker Duofold Centennial, all of which are similar in size and girth to an M800. So it's not the size that explains why I can't use an M800 comfortably. Rather, its brass piston makes the M800 uncomfortably top-heavy in my hand. Of course, others with larger hands love the weight and balance of the M800. So it's sensible to try before you buy, as you plan to do.

I do the modern M800 nib. It is stiff, and doesn't have the same character as the vintage Pelikans. On the other hand, it feels very business-like and is great for fast writing.

Jon Szanto
July 9th, 2013, 12:39 PM
I do the modern M800 nib. It is stiff, and doesn't have the same character as the vintage Pelikans. On the other hand, it feels very business-like and is great for fast writing.
My writing always ends up half-fast.

Laura N
July 9th, 2013, 01:59 PM
I do the modern M800 nib. It is stiff, and doesn't have the same character as the vintage Pelikans. On the other hand, it feels very business-like and is great for fast writing.
My writing always ends up half-fast.

I don't like to do anything halfway. :)

Jon Szanto
July 9th, 2013, 02:07 PM
I don't like to do anything halfway. :)
Heh. I didn't say I like it, just that it... is. 3878

Frank
July 12th, 2013, 09:20 AM
A good Pelikan is the one you are holding in your hand, and enjoy writing with!

gentlyom
July 12th, 2013, 11:40 AM
I agree with those who suggested the M800 tortoise--it's such a gorgeous pen. The M1000 is indeed large, but it would feel quite at home next to some of your Viscontis; the nib is springy as well, which I like much better than the stiffer M8xx nibs.

Unfortunately, vintage Pelikans are relatively small (especially if you're used to oversized modern pens). But if you could handle an M400NN, for example, the nib might very well be worth a compromise on size. A vintage Pelikan broad nib or OB nib can't be beat; they're stubbish, usually flexible, and are delightful to write with. Some of my favorite nibs.

I agree with Reprieve's point on M100 size being a huge pen with a springy nib, I like it much better than my M800 nib.

Also, on the vintage OB nibs, they are unbeatable. I thought I would only use the F nib for all my Peli pens, but I was blown away when I got a vintage 400 OB nib. It is so awesome that I couldn't put down my pen. The good news is M400 and M600 nibs can be swapped between the two models. :)

See the pictures below (quick snapped from my phone, sorry about the quality). Pelikan 620 with its original modern two tone M600 nib, and Pelikan 200 clear demo with a single tone vintage 400 OB nib. Then I switched the nibs in these pens, they fit perfectly.

john
July 15th, 2013, 06:49 AM
Tracy, Pelikan M800 brown tortoise which is best choice. This is a 2013 LE Souveran. But if you want the flex nib, go for the vintage Pelikans.

Tracy Lee
July 15th, 2013, 05:43 PM
Y'all have been so helpful on this question. I am armed with great information now that will help me see what I can find. Thank you sooooo much!!

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john
July 15th, 2013, 07:42 PM
I agree with those who suggested the M800 tortoise--it's such a gorgeous pen. The M1000 is indeed large, but it would feel quite at home next to some of your Viscontis; the nib is springy as well, which I like much better than the stiffer M8xx nibs.

Unfortunately, vintage Pelikans are relatively small (especially if you're used to oversized modern pens). But if you could handle an M400NN, for example, the nib might very well be worth a compromise on size. A vintage Pelikan broad nib or OB nib can't be beat; they're stubbish, usually flexible, and are delightful to write with. Some of my favorite nibs.Yes, Pelikan 400NN is a great writer, I'm planning to buy a few pieces more. The flexible nibs are awesome.

kenmc
July 16th, 2013, 07:46 AM
This photo is an excellent example why I don't own a drawer full of Pelikans. Note how much more space there is between the threads on the Twisbi grip section compared to the extra short distance on the Pelikan! While the diameter of the pen gets larger as the numbers go up that distance doesn't change much. Having to hold a pen on the threads doesn't bother some people though. At least at the pen show you will be able to hold it before you buy it.

A different size comparison:

I don't have an M800 cause it is just too big and heavy for my hand, but I do have a TWSBI 540 which I'm told is similar in size (less metal so likely lighter though). The TWSBI at least isn't really usable with the cap posted, WAY too back heavy so the M400 is really USEABLY the same size:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5505/9249351782_9dd30ca255_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/9249351782/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/9249351782/) by JoAndRoses (http://www.flickr.com/people/84377112@N05/), on Flickr

And crappy picture but here they are both posted. There is a big size difference here:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5463/9249347160_2dfb244ea7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/9249347160/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/9249347160/) by JoAndRoses (http://www.flickr.com/people/84377112@N05/), on Flickr

So there's that. Not sure if that helps or not. I think once you get your hands on some of the smaller Pelis you might be surprised just how comfy and useable they are.

bluefeathers
July 16th, 2013, 04:03 PM
Kenmc, that's a constant gripe of mine too! I can get by holding pens that low but prefer gripping them a bit higher up on the section.
I'm planning on putting up with it since I like Pelikans, but I wish more pen companies would make the sections longer (so far, other
than TWSBI, Aurora and Waterman have long sections, I think Dupont and Faber-Castell do too). I've found that one solution is either
have your grip overlap with the threads, which doesn't hurt, or many people grip the pen barrel just past the threads (not a problem if
the pen barrel diameter is small like the M400).

Waski_the_Squirrel
July 16th, 2013, 09:07 PM
I promised myself an m800 for finishing writing a novel. The novel is done, but I can't bring myself to spend the money.

I will say that the m200 demonstrator is pretty nice. The only drawback so far is that it was stained slightly by Iroshizuku Yama-budo. Nevertheless, it has some flex, it works well, and it feels all right in the hand.

Tony Rex
July 17th, 2013, 04:37 AM
Majesty and Ductus have long section.

bluefeathers
July 17th, 2013, 09:55 AM
Majesty and Ductus have long section.

Oh really, I will have to try the Ductus. Thanks for mentioning it.

kenmc
July 17th, 2013, 10:08 AM
Ductus is a converter pen and different nib.

Tony Rex
July 17th, 2013, 05:42 PM
Because a bad proposition deserves another. If you put the stress point so far out people will complaint about cracking. No matter how big the cap band is normal stress will always crack the plastic, either on the cap or the barrel. Unless everything is made of metal, like the Ductus or Majesty and other similar design such as GvFC Classic.

I'm no Pelikan apologist, but I like them simply because they learn from experience and keep the tradition alive. Their design evolve though that, and not from fad whims.

tandaina
July 17th, 2013, 05:50 PM
Because a bad proposition deserves another. If you put the stress point so far out people will complaint about cracking. No matter how big the cap band is normal stress will always crack the plastic, either on the cap or the barrel. Unless everything is made of metal, like the Ductus or Majesty and other similar design such as GvFC Classic.

I'm no Pelikan apologist, but I like them simply because they learn from experience and keep the tradition alive. Their design evolve though that, and not from fad whims.

Agreed. I have small hands so the size of the section doesn't bother me. And I find the Pelikan threads pretty darn forgiving, I honestly don't notice them and couldn't tell you if they touch my fingers or hand while using the pen. The pens are so light and well balanced and fit my hand so well I honestly don't know. They are just so darn CONSISTENT. From my 400NN that's 60 years old ot my brand new 400 white tortoise. They could have been made the same day as each other. THAT keeps me coming back to Pelikan.

Hmm, is this part of the TWSBI cracking problem? I'd assumed it was just the clear plastic, but perhaps design plays into it as well?

cwent2
July 17th, 2013, 06:14 PM
Because a bad proposition deserves another. If you put the stress point so far out people will complaint about cracking. No matter how big the cap band is normal stress will always crack the plastic, either on the cap or the barrel. Unless everything is made of metal, like the Ductus or Majesty and other similar design such as GvFC Classic.

I'm no Pelikan apologist, but I like them simply because they learn from experience and keep the tradition alive. Their design evolve though that, and not from fad whims.

Agreed. I have small hands so the size of the section doesn't bother me. And I find the Pelikan threads pretty darn forgiving, I honestly don't notice them and couldn't tell you if they touch my fingers or hand while using the pen. The pens are so light and well balanced and fit my hand so well I honestly don't know. They are just so darn CONSISTENT. From my 400NN that's 60 years old ot my brand new 400 white tortoise. They could have been made the same day as each other. THAT keeps me coming back to Pelikan.

Hmm, is this part of the TWSBI cracking problem? I'd assumed it was just the clear plastic, but perhaps design plays into it as well?

I was looking at a 400NN today from 1959, which is at least to me a good year (hint) - fine nibPE3065:1959 Pelikan 400NN in green stripe. Excellent condition with a semi-flexible Fine nib. $205.00 would that be a good pelikan?

tandaina
July 17th, 2013, 06:39 PM
The 400NN is a VERY good Pelikan. But then most of them are. ;) The fine nib will not be silky smooth on the paper, or at least likely isn't. The 50s era nibs did not have the large iridium ball tips of today's nibs. Instead they had small amounts of very flat iridium. So the finer the nib the more "sharp" it will feel. That doesn't mean it isn't a good nib, just don't expect a ROUND writing tip. Just don't flex the nib too much. Those nibs can give very nice minor line variation

The very BEST of the nibs from that era is probably the OBB. If you can find one you WILL pay a premium for it, but it pretty much superior to anything else I've ever written with. (I mean that.)

cwent2
July 17th, 2013, 07:04 PM
The 400NN is a VERY good Pelikan. But then most of them are. ;) The fine nib will not be silky smooth on the paper, or at least likely isn't. The 50s era nibs did not have the large iridium ball tips of today's nibs. Instead they had small amounts of very flat iridium. So the finer the nib the more "sharp" it will feel. That doesn't mean it isn't a good nib, just don't expect a ROUND writing tip. Just don't flex the nib too much. Those nibs can give very nice minor line variation

The very BEST of the nibs from that era is probably the OBB. If you can find one you WILL pay a premium for it, but it pretty much superior to anything else I've ever written with. (I mean that.)

Ok, thank you - I am not so much interested in flex, a little is nice but not an issue, what is an issue is that today's medium nibs tend to be too wide - I cramp my writing, should have been a lefty, anyway a medium puts down too much ink and is too wide for everyday writing cwood826.wordpress.com shows a sample of my writing. I am at the point that I want one good pen in the 150 - 200 range. so I am looking, I like the idea of a pen from 1959.

Cwood

tandaina
July 17th, 2013, 07:09 PM
The fine may work really well for you if your writing is small. :) Big nibs have actually trained me to write larger so can't help much there!

cwent2
July 17th, 2013, 07:19 PM
@tandaina

Thanks for the input - I don't have a store or show close by to try different pens -- so many choices........

dduran
July 18th, 2013, 03:31 AM
I promised myself an m800 for finishing writing a novel. The novel is done, but I can't bring myself to spend the money.

I will say that the m200 demonstrator is pretty nice. The only drawback so far is that it was stained slightly by Iroshizuku Yama-budo. Nevertheless, it has some flex, it works well, and it feels all right in the hand.

How much is your budget? Why not go for a 2nd hand? Brand new, you could find great deals for $350 (even less) if you wait for an auction.. (eBay)

rick propas
July 18th, 2013, 03:42 AM
It is a shame you aren't interested in vintage, though. While the modern pens are well-made, the nibs from the earlier eras can't be beat. Since you are going to the DC show, I'd be surprised if Rick Propas wasn't there. Be sure to see him and his pens, and talk to him about your options. I don't think there is anyone who knows more about Pels, both modern and vintage.

Eh, no matter what you get, it's gonna be nice. :)

In answer to Jon, I am going to be in DC and I do have a few tortoise M800s remaining. I'd expect them to go fast. Not to break any forum rules (I hope) but if anyone wants to reserve one at the sale price listed on my website, give me a shout.

kenmc
July 18th, 2013, 09:53 AM
Hmm, is this part of the TWSBI cracking problem? I'd assumed it was just the clear plastic, but perhaps design plays into it as well?
Hmm, I think it has more to do with what it's made of and who is making it.
I don't know how long Pelikan has been making pens but Aurora has been at it since 1919 and they make the big 88 and optima with plenty of room for large fingers.
If the threads cut into the section are vulnerable to stress the farther the cap threads are from the nib section the better to prevent cutting threads inside and outside at the same area.

Fawkes
July 19th, 2013, 11:34 PM
You could also look for the M600 White Tortoise. Its a beautiful pen and a pretty good size. Though, it may not be oversized it is certainly a large pen and very comfortable. I have one 600, the 605 blue with silver trims that I find incredibly comfortable to use as it finds comfortably in my large size pens and its not too heavy, not too light.

pajaro
July 20th, 2013, 08:47 PM
One group of Pelikans to consider are the M625 (I think they are M625s) Cities series pens. Stockholm, Berlin, etc. These are some beautiful and modern Pelikans, and they are colorful.

http://www.nibs.com/PelikanCitySeries.html

john
July 21st, 2013, 03:48 PM
Tracy, there's another great choice for you , the Pelikan M1000 Raden Starlight.
4090

Tracy Lee
July 21st, 2013, 05:40 PM
Oh wow, that is really different looking! Added it to my "talk to Rick about" notes. Look at that nib! :thumbup:

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

Frank
July 22nd, 2013, 07:16 AM
One group of Pelikans to consider are the M625 (I think they are M625s) Cities series pens. Stockholm, Berlin, etc. These are some beautiful and modern Pelikans, and they are colorful.

http://www.nibs.com/PelikanCitySeries.html

+1 on the "City Series"!

I have the "Grand Place" model, and consider it one of my best looking pens overall (let alone Pel)!

:)

fountainpenkid
July 22nd, 2013, 07:23 PM
...

fountainpenkid
July 22nd, 2013, 07:25 PM
The 400NN is a VERY good Pelikan. But then most of them are. ;) The fine nib will not be silky smooth on the paper, or at least likely isn't. The 50s era nibs did not have the large iridium ball tips of today's nibs. Instead they had small amounts of very flat iridium. So the finer the nib the more "sharp" it will feel. That doesn't mean it isn't a good nib, just don't expect a ROUND writing tip. Just don't flex the nib too much. Those nibs can give very nice minor line variation

The very BEST of the nibs from that era is probably the OBB. If you can find one you WILL pay a premium for it, but it pretty much superior to anything else I've ever written with. (I mean that.)

Ok, thank you - I am not so much interested in flex, a little is nice but not an issue, what is an issue is that today's medium nibs tend to be too wide - I cramp my writing, should have been a lefty, anyway a medium puts down too much ink and is too wide for everyday writing cwood826.wordpress.com shows a sample of my writing. I am at the point that I want one good pen in the 150 - 200 range. so I am looking, I like the idea of a pen from 1959.

Cwood

1959...the Pelikan P1 was the flagship pen at the time, and they are really quite nice pens. Easily found for $50-60 online on eBay, wide nib selection, (14k of course), and they are cool to write with. They are also apparently leakproof on airplanes like their Parker 61/51 competitors. I think they are a hidden gem, and mine only grows on me.

john
July 25th, 2013, 03:50 AM
Oh wow, that is really different looking! Added it to my "talk to Rick about" notes. Look at that nib! :thumbup:

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2Just purchase the different size of M1000 nibs,you will have a lot of fun.