Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

[dankdan63]

Just curious, I don't remember reading this anywhere.

Is iron gall ink ok in lever fill/ pens with rubber sacs?

I just got a couple bottles of ESSRI ink and am curious if this can cause me problems?

Thanks,

dan

[silverlifter]

When those pens were carried and used by everyone, almost all of them would have been filled with iron gall inks.

[aquafox]

imho there may be problems if you use iron gall inks with vacuum fillers (or c/c pens with agitators).

[Tweel]

According to this chemical resistance chart (https://www.minorrubber.com/compatibility-chart.html), natural rubber is okay with gallic and tannic acid, but it doesn't like hydrochloric acid.

[Chrissy]

(Ha, I see @Tweel has the same idea while I was editing the image!)
You might be interested to learn that on FPG everyone can edit and even delete their posts forever. :)

[guyy]

This gets asked all the time. Iron gall inks are fine in lever fillers.

[dankdan63]

Cool... I have turned a sac to goo before (don't remember what I was doing but I remember it being all slimy).

Anyway- good to know. Thank you,

dan

[FredRydr]

These questions come up again and again about dissolving sacs. For those who buy their sacs from The Pen Sac Co., you could ask Peter before your next order to placate your concerns. I expect he has answered so many times he has a fact sheet ready to go.

[Ole Juul]

Konrad Żurawski of KWZ inks has a page on this subject too. Fountain pens and Iron Gall inks. (https://www.kwzink.com/en/manufactured-inks/iron-gall-inks/fountain-pens-iron-gall/)

He's got quite a range (https://www.kwzink.com/en/manufactured-inks/iron-gall-inks/) or iron gall inks, by the way.

[Yazeh]

I have turned a sac to goo before

http://www.indy-pen-dance.com/Inks-The-Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly.html

I believe that's partially true...Ole Juul's link (i.e.Konrad's article) is measured and explains why ink sacks might "melt".....

[Yazeh]

I believe that's partially true...


What part of the content in the panel with the heading of “CAUTION” makes it less than wholly true? I don't doubt for a moment Richard did in fact encounter one or more Noodler's inks (which he did not name or identify specifically) that turned latex sacs to goo. I gave the link to the article to show the O.P. that, yes, I think it's entirely plausible he had turned a sac to goo by no other reason than simply using certain inks in it. However, since — as far as I'm aware — Noodler's doesn't make any iron-gall inks, and the O.P.'s question was specifically to do with using iron-gall inks in pens with rubber sacs, I don't think he should be worrying primarily about that. I wasn't trying to explore why or how specifically he managed to turn a sac to goo before, or posit how to avoid it from happening in the future generally.

"Fountain pen before inking with Iron Gall ink have to be thoroughly washed – especially if other types of waterproof inks were used in particular pen. Similarly, if we change ink in fountain pen from Iron Gall ink to a different type of waterproof ink we should wash them thoroughly. Iron Gall inks can interact with"
This is from Konrad's link.

I believe what could have happened is simply not washing thoroughly a pen. And nothing is more difficult that washing a lever filler with a stubborn ink. The combination of a Noodler's ink and Sailor's could be fatal from what I understand. Or using one of Noodler's speciality inks, like Kung Te-Cheng, Whaleman's Sepia or one of the Baystate inks. Though I have (modern) pen with Baystate in it for nearly a year and I'm still waiting for it to explode.... :boom:
Also, human nature, many people don't tell the truth when they have done something they "shouldn't have" been doing... So they tell the person who repairs, I did everything the way it shouldn't have been done...it must be the ink's fault... Maybe they didn't clean properly and didn't want to berated by one of those ink hygiene gurus..... :)




It was more of a, “Don't worry, you can turn a sac to goo without using iron-gall inks, you won't be the first to do so, and in all likelihood using iron-gall inks won't turn a sac to goo, according to the rubber chemical resistance information we found.”

Fair enough..... :)

[Turquoise]

See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.

[OCArt]

But if you read the entire article you'll see he says: " you can use iron gall inks such as Montblanc Blue-Black and Diamine Registrar’s ink with impunity."


See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.

[Ole Juul]

See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.

I know you're trying to be helpful, and I thank you for that. :)

But that article is quoted every time iron gall is mentioned and it gets a bit tiresome. Many think that it is overstated and questionable. The fact is that modern iron gall inks are not like that and many of us use then with impunity.

A more reasonable report by a chemist and manufacturer of iron gall inks can be found here (https://www.kwzink.com/en/manufactured-inks/iron-gall-inks/fountain-pens-iron-gall/). (That's the same I mentioned in post #11.)

[FredRydr]

Confirmation bias is a real bitch at times.

[guyy]

See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.

Not gold.

So ig ink is PERFECTLY FINE for gold nib pens where the only metal in contact with the ink is gold, such as lever fillers & piston fillers.

[Ole Juul]

See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.

Not gold.

So ig ink is PERFECTLY FINE for gold nib pens where the only metal in contact with the ink is gold, such as lever fillers & piston fillers.

That's the information I'm working on as being the way to go with my vintage pens.

However, I do believe that modern steel nibs are also resistant, at least to modern iron gall inks.

[Pterodactylus]

See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.

Not gold.

So ig ink is PERFECTLY FINE for gold nib pens where the only metal in contact with the ink is gold, such as lever fillers & piston fillers.

That's the information I'm working on as being the way to go with my vintage pens.

However, I do believe that modern steel nibs are also resistant, at least to modern iron gall inks.

True, also cheap modern stainless steel can usually withstand easily modern IG inks.
My opinion is based on personal experience not hearsay.

E.G.
One particular cheap Serwex MB (even with a EMF modified FPrevolution flex nib where I changed the nib geometry (filed)) was continuously filled with ESSRI for several years.
Without cleaning, without flushing, dried up several time, just refilled it again and again and again.....
It was long time my favorite sketching pen.
The cheap steel nib show no damage at all, not even on the edges where I changed the nib geometry.

I don’t say that a reaction is impossible (what is really impossible? also a nib steel could be faulty) I claim that it is very very unlikely that a modern nib/pen is negatively affected by a IG ink.

Also think about product liability laws (especially here in Europe), the ink manufacturers are responsible for damages their products causing.
Do you really think they would sell pen eating inks?
That would not be a profitable business, and also in general very bad for their reputation.

Don’t let horror stories/rumors which circulates since many years prevent you from using/trying these awesome inks.

[Turquoise]

That was my point -- only mentioning it from the perspective of effect on metal while considering use of iron gall inks in FPs.