PDA

View Full Version : Speaking of conspiracy theories...



Pages : [1] 2 3

dneal
December 11th, 2020, 07:20 PM
How long does the Biden Presidency last?

A few months ago, Pelosi was talking about crafting legislation to clarify the 25th Amendment processes (specifically Congress' role) in removing a President. Initially everybody thought she was referring to Trump, but the conspiracy theorists advanced that she really meant Biden. It was a little out there, but pretty clever.

The next one was the Burisma / China payment to Hunter scandal, which was argued to be leverage to get him to resign in lieu of impeachment. Pretty clever as well, and the media's sudden focus on Hunter's "tax problem" and acknowledgement that the whole thing has been under investigation since 2018 has been stoking those fires.

I don't think he'll make it 4 years simply due to his cognitive decline, but you never know... Reagan pulled off his last 2 or 3.

welch
December 18th, 2020, 02:49 PM
How long does the Biden Presidency last?

A few months ago, Pelosi was talking about crafting legislation to clarify the 25th Amendment processes (specifically Congress' role) in removing a President. Initially everybody thought she was referring to Trump, but the conspiracy theorists advanced that she really meant Biden. It was a little out there, but pretty clever.

The next one was the Burisma / China payment to Hunter scandal, which was argued to be leverage to get him to resign in lieu of impeachment. Pretty clever as well, and the media's sudden focus on Hunter's "tax problem" and acknowledgement that the whole thing has been under investigation since 2018 has been stoking those fires.

I don't think he'll make it 4 years simply due to his cognitive decline, but you never know... Reagan pulled off his last 2 or 3.

No sign of cognitive decline. The Burisma stuff was junk: John Solimon to Giuliani to favor a Ukrainia national prosecutor that the US and the EU wanted out. China? That's Hunter Biden's problem, if it is a problem.

Otherwise, Biden finishes his four years. If he has a heart attack or develops cancer, then maybe he retires early, but he looks pretty healthy.

dneal
December 18th, 2020, 07:24 PM
I've enjoyed Joe Biden in the foreign relations realm for many decades, and I recall an informal "roundtable" where I was impressed with his candor. He's not as sharp now, and some footage gives me pause on whether or not he's in decline. At least he doesn't come off as crazy as Nancy Pelosi. She should have given it up quite a few years ago.

There is a battle in the Democratic party, between the progressives and the old guard. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to oust him in favor of Kamala. The fact that the MSM is now talking about Hunter gives me pause as well.

Roe D Hym
December 20th, 2020, 07:41 AM
I think the Hunter Biden laptop will bring down China Joe and Comrade Harris will be put in office. Three things against China Joe. 1. The threat of pulling foreign aid unless the Ukraine prosecutor is canned statement China Joe made a couple of years ago (was taped with audio). 2. The inclusion of the laptop in the mainstream drive by media whereas before the election is was "Russian Disinformation". One really needs to ask why post election is not "Russian Disinformation". 3. The squad wants Comrade Harris in power and not the old white guy. I see the squad coming to China Joe and saying: leave due to medical reasons or we impeach you.

welch
December 20th, 2020, 02:28 PM
I think the Hunter Biden laptop will bring down China Joe and Comrade Harris will be put in office. Three things against China Joe. 1. The threat of pulling foreign aid unless the Ukraine prosecutor is canned statement China Joe made a couple of years ago (was taped with audio). 2. The inclusion of the laptop in the mainstream drive by media whereas before the election is was "Russian Disinformation". One really needs to ask why post election is not "Russian Disinformation". 3. The squad wants Comrade Harris in power and not the old white guy. I see the squad coming to China Joe and saying: leave due to medical reasons or we impeach you.

OK, we know that:

(1) Biden acted on behalf of the US and the EU, which wanted the corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor fired. That was part of a US/EU effort to reduce corruption in Ukraine that goes back to Russian domination. Since the Russian puppet was driven from power, the US and EU have tried to support Ukraine's full independence. There was nothing secret about Biden's work in Ukraine, anymore than Putin's efforts to keep control there. You are repeating crazy right-wing pro-Russian propaganda that John Solimon, Rudy Giuliani, and Giuliani's front-men (cf Lev Parnas) tried "inject" into rational thinking early in 2019. It was contemptible then, when it seems to have convinced Trump that the DNC server had been shipped to Ukraine and remained hidden. Are you still trying to push that conspiracy theory??

(2) Biden boasted of having pushed for democracy in Ukraine. What he did was good and part of openly-announced US and EU foreign policy.

(3) You suggest that Kamala Harris, centrist Democratic senator from California and VP-elect, is a Communist. That's idiotic crazy stuff.

Go away. Come back when you have a fountain pen and you have given up your devotion to far-rightwing conspiracies.

dneal
December 20th, 2020, 05:58 PM
When it's an anonymous whistleblower in the NYT or WashPost, or a fake dossier posted on Buzzfeed; we need to investigate.

When it's a business associate with texts, a laptop in the hands of the FBI and four ongoing investigations; it's a far-rightwing conspiracy.

Do you not see any inconsistency?

The opposite is the case as well, I just picked this example.

I was fine with looking at Russian Collusion. It all turned out to be a bullshit Democrat conspiracy theory. Depending on Durham's results, it might turn out to be a Democrat conspiracy.

I'm fine with looking at Biden graft, using the office of the VP. Maybe it will turn out to be a bullshit Republican conspiracy theory. There's more evidence than a dossier.

dneal
December 20th, 2020, 06:06 PM
Go away. Come back when you have a fountain pen and you have given up your devotion to far-rightwing conspiracies.

Completely unnecessary.

Cyril
December 25th, 2020, 11:37 AM
First of all Joe should be elected " OFFICIALLY AND THEN " we can think of his capability to talk a sentences or command without failing to finish.... it not getting memory lost.If his dementia is permitting he will last for a few years.
I mean politically or non politically he is will be soon out of his missions soon as dementia is the last signal of the level of human capability of the brain.
I hate to go into this topic, by my observation is IF the DS can't dominate TRUMP getting into power through the PRESENT "CIBER PERL HARBER'' THE NEXT STEP IS THE INVASION OF USA BY CHINA AND ANOTHER WORLD WAR and USA IS already just as The Rockefeller Foundation's mission had everything prepared for that.
If you notice anything about "Blue Aliens" it is worth doing a research about them and "the disclosure "that is somewhat tropic on everybody these days and TRUMP HAS PASSED A REMARK ON THE PUBLIC ALREADY.
CORONA HOAX HAS BEEN THE SHIELD TO DO THIS CIBER PERL HARBER AND NEW CHINAGATE IS THE RECENT STAR-GATE THE "DS" HAS CREATED. This is a well planned agenda and all of a sudden everything has come into a chaotic mess and we'll have lot of surprises soon next year.

welch
January 21st, 2021, 06:16 AM
QAnon goes flat.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/20/qanon-biden-inauguration-trump-antisemitism-white-nationalism

Mustang Mars
January 21st, 2021, 03:29 PM
First of all Joe should be elected " OFFICIALLY AND THEN " we can think of his capability to talk a sentences or command without failing to finish.... it not getting memory lost.If his dementia is permitting he will last for a few years.
I mean politically or non politically he is will be soon out of his missions soon as dementia is the last signal of the level of human capability of the brain.
I hate to go into this topic, by my observation is IF the DS can't dominate TRUMP getting into power through the PRESENT "CIBER PERL HARBER'' THE NEXT STEP IS THE INVASION OF USA BY CHINA AND ANOTHER WORLD WAR and USA IS already just as The Rockefeller Foundation's mission had everything prepared for that.
If you notice anything about "Blue Aliens" it is worth doing a research about them and "the disclosure "that is somewhat tropic on everybody these days and TRUMP HAS PASSED A REMARK ON THE PUBLIC ALREADY.
CORONA HOAX HAS BEEN THE SHIELD TO DO THIS CIBER PERL HARBER AND NEW CHINAGATE IS THE RECENT STAR-GATE THE "DS" HAS CREATED. This is a well planned agenda and all of a sudden everything has come into a chaotic mess and we'll have lot of surprises soon next year.

Not sure if I follow. Could you clarify please. Thanks

dneal
January 21st, 2021, 07:37 PM
Day 1.5 of the Biden Presidency.

Antifa pissed.
10,000 Union jobs lost with the stroke of a pen.
3889 Covid deaths he's directly responsible for, from his mishandling of the covid crisis.

This pot-shot thing at the President is kind of fun.

Lloyd
January 21st, 2021, 10:42 PM
Day 1.5 of the Biden Presidency.

Antifa pissed.
10,000 Union jobs lost with the stroke of a pen.
3889 Covid deaths he's directly responsible for, from his mishandling of the covid crisis.

This pot-shot thing at the President is kind of fun.

I guess I was wrong... You are a Trump fan. I'm glad you feel comfy joking (?) about the lost US lives from the pandemic.

dneal
January 22nd, 2021, 04:14 AM
Day 1.5 of the Biden Presidency.

Antifa pissed.
10,000 Union jobs lost with the stroke of a pen.
3889 Covid deaths he's directly responsible for, from his mishandling of the covid crisis.

This pot-shot thing at the President is kind of fun.

I guess I was wrong... You are a Trump fan. I'm glad you feel comfy joking (?) about the lost US lives from the pandemic.

You have some serious TDS. Who said anything about Trump? Sounds like whataboutism...

Biden is responsible for the deaths of more Americans on his first full day in office than Al Qaeda on 9/11.

dneal
January 22nd, 2021, 04:26 AM
Biden ditches mask at Lincoln Memorial. (https://nypost.com/2021/01/21/biden-maskless-at-lincoln-memorial-hours-after-mandate/) How irresponsible. Does he think this COVID thing is a hoax? How many people did he put at risk?

Irresponsible behavior from a man clearly not prepared for the job.

dneal
January 22nd, 2021, 05:02 AM
Beginning of Day 2 and he still doesn't have a cabinet in place. What kind of President doesn't get his cabinet confirmed before his inauguration? That's some serious incompetence.

dneal
January 22nd, 2021, 10:54 AM
The commander in chief, after using the national guard as a political prop to “protect” his inauguration, sends them to a parking garage.

Corrupt and incompetent. This guy clearly ought to be impeached.

Chuck Naill
January 22nd, 2021, 03:18 PM
He said he was sorry, dneal.

dneal
January 22nd, 2021, 04:09 PM
Slow start: Biden’s opening approval below Trump and Obama, just 48% (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/slow-start-bidens-opening-approval-below-trump-and-obama-just-48?fbclid=IwAR0_kSQlTfA6OgN6F-NZ7zecUwuRv7l2USt-XY9txjj99r1ZxIOoNGYlrhg)


President Biden’s opening approval rating isn’t much to cheer about, coming in below that of his two predecessors.

In Rasmussen Reports’ first Presidential Daily Tracking Poll of likely voters, the new Democratic president starts at 48% approving and 45% disapproving.

Notably, he is underwater with women (46% approve, 48% disapprove) and whites (43% approve, 51% disapprove).

Rasmussen’s daily survey number is an average of the last three days.

By comparison, Biden’s approval is ho-hum compared to former Presidents Donald Trump and Barack Obama, said the polling data.

Trump opened with a 56% approval rating. Just 44% disapproved. It was one of his highest ratings of his four years.

Obama started at 67% approval, 32% disapprove, which is also one of his highest ratings.

How embarrassing. The guy who reportedly got more votes than any President in history begins his term with a lower approval rating than an orange loud-mouthed New Yorker.

dneal
January 22nd, 2021, 04:22 PM
Democrats don't think federal officers in Portland are storm troopers anymore (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/democrats-dont-think-federal-officers-in-portland-are-storm-troopers-anymore?fbclid=IwAR2fqIXdHMzIMJiyQs6tDBEm6-nGPtRWUgP1hQr56t9-LJvaC4IckOqBiQ0)

Biden shows himself to be an authoritarian dictator.


Rioters in Portland, Oregon, have once again taken to the streets. Federal agents have used tear gas and pepper balls. All this, just hours after President Biden’s inauguration. As expected, the outrage over federal officers in Portland doesn’t match July’s fever pitch.

Rioters smashed out the windows at a local Democratic Party headquarters, and some 150 rioters armed with rocks, shields, and "electronic control weapons similar to Tasers” vandalized an Immigration and Customs Enforcement building. Federal officers deployed tear gas once the rioters started throwing rocks at the building.

Portland has become a home to frequent riots, thanks to the nonexistent leadership of Mayor Ted Wheeler. This is what Portland’s residents have voted for. But the federal government has a responsibility to protect federal buildings, and when it tried to act on that in July, Democrats threw a tantrum.

Rioters had attempted to burn down a federal courthouse in Portland, leading President Donald Trump to send in federal law enforcement. Officers faced a much larger and more violent mob then, as rioters threw Molotov cocktails at the courthouse. Officers were hit with hammers, fireworks, and chunks of concrete. Rioters at one point barricaded federal officers inside the courthouse while attempting to set it on fire.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called the federal officers “storm troopers.” Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said that federal officers protecting federal property from a violent mob was “so un-American, so in keeping with third-world countries and dictatorships.” Then-candidate Biden said that Trump was “brutally attacking peaceful protesters.” Establishment media ran cover for their partisan attacks, insisting that the violent mobs were mostly peaceful.

Chuck Naill
January 22nd, 2021, 05:40 PM
Even a casual reader could see the nonsense.

dneal
January 22nd, 2021, 06:15 PM
As Biden (and his plan and team) continue to mismanage the deadly covid pandemic, he is directly responsible for 3,980 American deaths today.

Two days in, and he's already a disaster. No wonder his approval ratings are so low right out of the gate.

58566

dneal
January 22nd, 2021, 06:22 PM
You guys had enough? Some of the more active posters seem to have disappeared.

I can keep this up for at least four years (well, it'll switch to Kamala at some point because we all know Joe ain't gonna make it 4 years).

This is what your anti-Trump nonsense looks like. Same format, different name.

Does it maintain it's validity when you delete "Trump" and insert "Biden"?

dneal
May 13th, 2021, 04:26 PM
60772

724Seney
May 14th, 2021, 04:51 PM
60784

dneal
May 20th, 2021, 02:57 PM
60907

dneal
June 24th, 2021, 07:04 PM
This thread seems strangely quiet.

Mean tweets aside, at least the orange one had a handle on policy. Grandpa Joe is wandering around with the help, and Kamala is cackling pseudo-answers to pretty much everything. Talk about an incompetent administration.

But hey, at least we got a new federal holiday...

Chuck Naill
June 25th, 2021, 04:51 AM
Things seem much more normal to me with Uncle Joe. I prefer a team approach to autocracy, horizontal to vertical if you know what that means. Things can't just be good for one demographic. Yes, I know that you probably long for the 1950's when women stayed home and had your supper waiting when you returned from the factory. When men couldn't communicate emotion, when black people had it good as long as they stayed at the back of the bus. Fortunately, for all, things have progressed.

Nothing wrong with celebrating Juneteeth with a holiday. Remember the Alamo!!! We want Texas to be a slave state!!

I have a friend who obcesses with Fox News, he sounds a lot like you. Perhaps consider taking a break. Get outside. Go camping or hiking where social media is impossble. It is your life and your choice of how to think. Don't screw it up believing everything Tucker says...LOL!!

dneal
June 25th, 2021, 05:01 AM
Things seem much more normal to me with Uncle Joe.

Normal? He’s less “present” than Reagan was during his last six months in office. Your word-salad, like "I prefer a team approach to autocracy, horizontal to vertical if you know what that means..." is just deflection (and nobody knows what that means, including you; because it doesn't mean anything). Which "autocracy" do you prefer? "Government by a single person having unlimited power; despotism"? Hard to have a team approach to that. Same with "A country or state that is governed by a single person with unlimited power". What about "The power of determining one's own actions; independent or self-derived power; self-government; self-rule." Kind of strange that self-governance would require a "team approach".

Your vapid musings notwithstanding, the man appears to not be up to any task more difficult than licking an ice cream cone.

edit

p.s.: Chuck, the rest of your post is just your weird virtue signaling and some incoherent rambling about Fox News or Tucker Carlson (and I don't watch either). The real irony is that the aspersions you attempt to cast follow the very "racist" (which is to say motive assigning, generalizing and stereotyping) formula you claim to despise. I suppose that's not particularly surprising, with your "empathy" posts and other examples of hypocrisy.

TSherbs
June 25th, 2021, 08:11 AM
I think the Hunter Biden laptop will bring down China Joe and Comrade Harris will be put in office. Three things against China Joe. 1. The threat of pulling foreign aid unless the Ukraine prosecutor is canned statement China Joe made a couple of years ago (was taped with audio). 2. The inclusion of the laptop in the mainstream drive by media whereas before the election is was "Russian Disinformation". One really needs to ask why post election is not "Russian Disinformation". 3. The squad wants Comrade Harris in power and not the old white guy. I see the squad coming to China Joe and saying: leave due to medical reasons or we impeach you.

It's been 6 months. I don't see that any of this has been born out.

kazoolaw
June 25th, 2021, 02:26 PM
...when black people had it good as long as they stayed at the back of the bus.

Nothing wrong with celebrating Juneteeth with a holiday. Remember the Alamo!!! We want Texas to be a slave state!!

Kind of a Democrat thing?

https://www.recordnet.com/storyimage/ZZ/20200615/NEWS/200619919/AR/0/AR-200619919.jpg

Chuck Naill
June 26th, 2021, 05:52 PM
...when black people had it good as long as they stayed at the back of the bus.

Nothing wrong with celebrating Juneteeth with a holiday. Remember the Alamo!!! We want Texas to be a slave state!!

Kind of a Democrat thing?

https://www.recordnet.com/storyimage/ZZ/20200615/NEWS/200619919/AR/0/AR-200619919.jpg

Not if you're informed. I've known about Juneteenth for some time. I also understand that the battle of the alamo had nothing to do with Texas independance and everything with making Texas a slave state.

Chuck Naill
June 26th, 2021, 05:54 PM
Things seem much more normal to me with Uncle Joe.

Normal? He’s less “present” than Reagan was during his last six months in office. Your word-salad, like "I prefer a team approach to autocracy, horizontal to vertical if you know what that means..." is just deflection (and nobody knows what that means, including you; because it doesn't mean anything). Which "autocracy" do you prefer? "Government by a single person having unlimited power; despotism"? Hard to have a team approach to that. Same with "A country or state that is governed by a single person with unlimited power". What about "The power of determining one's own actions; independent or self-derived power; self-government; self-rule." Kind of strange that self-governance would require a "team approach".

Your vapid musings notwithstanding, the man appears to not be up to any task more difficult than licking an ice cream cone.

edit

p.s.: Chuck, the rest of your post is just your weird virtue signaling and some incoherent rambling about Fox News or Tucker Carlson (and I don't watch either). The real irony is that the aspersions you attempt to cast follow the very "racist" (which is to say motive assigning, generalizing and stereotyping) formula you claim to despise. I suppose that's not particularly surprising, with your "empathy" posts and other examples of hypocrisy.

Tucker is not your friend. He's selling air time.

dneal
June 27th, 2021, 04:48 AM
“You watch Tucker” (even though I don’t) is your best substitute for an argument of substance?

Chuck Naill
June 27th, 2021, 05:40 AM
“You watch Tucker” (even though I don’t) is your best substitute for an argument of substance?

TRump is a cult like figure which I find amazing. Haven't you studied his business history? Funny it seems like people think he is a self man person when the history is readily available.

If you haven't read them already, I'd like to suggest three books. The one by Bob Woodward which will give you a journalists perspective. Then get John Bolton's book for an insider veiw. Lastly consider Mary Trump's book for a family perspective. If these don't expose the man you've put behind the curtain, nothing I will ever say will mean anything.


I was a Reagan Republican and have voted accordingly until Trump ran. I couldn't support a person who was disrespectful to John McCain for no cause, or the Gold Star family, or his recording on the Access Hollywood tape. So, I formed my opinion early on.

Ever notice that know one ever benefits from being associated with Trump? Your post saying Trump hurt someone's feelings is certainly not true for me, but him trying to overturn an election and asking the Georgia leaders to fabricate votes told me just how willing Trump was to become a dictator. So yes, I was very concerned and afraid just what he was capable of doing.

You might not like what Biden is doing, but for me I see it as an attempt to allow the US to compete globally and produce education for as many as possible. It doesn't bother me to see African Americans get a voice and have a federal holiday. I mean, it is the least of my concern and it feels like justice and what you'd expect a benevolent society to do.

And teaching the truth about Texas independance might be uncomfortable for some, but in the end, truth should be what all free people would naturally want to see occur. So, yes, Biden seems normal.

dneal
June 27th, 2021, 05:17 PM
Blah blah blah. You can't stop talking about Trump. Trump, MAGA, and apparently Tucker Carlson live in your head.

This is a Biden thread.

Chip
July 24th, 2021, 01:29 PM
There seems to be an international cabal that includes pedophiles and old guys who wear dresses, that extracts money from people with the promise that when they die, they won't actually be dead, but will come back to life in some unspecified way in some unknown place.

Pretty awful, I reckon. . .

dneal
July 24th, 2021, 05:00 PM
There seems to be an international cabal that includes pedophiles and old guys who wear dresses, that extracts money from people with the promise that when they die, they won't actually be dead, but will come back to life in some unspecified way in some unknown place.

Pretty awful, I reckon. . .

Another one. This is a Biden thread.

Is the fact that Kamala is so incompetent and hated the only reason Joe is still in office?

TSherbs
July 24th, 2021, 05:23 PM
Is the fact that Kamala is so incompetent and hated the only reason Joe is still in office?

No. There is also the fact that he kicked Trump's ass in the election of 2020.

Or do you doubt that?

dneal
July 24th, 2021, 06:17 PM
You were just bitching about staying on topic. Don't you have enough election threads to vent your TDS? Does your team suck so bad that you are actively diverting attention away from them?

Those were rhetorical. Don't bother replying because I already know the answers.

Chip
July 25th, 2021, 08:17 PM
You seem to lack any objective sense of what a conspiracy theory is.

The idea that Trump actually won the election and was robbed by (name your suspect group) is a baseless, witless, senseless conspiracy theory.

Rather like all the mad rubbish about vaccines and microchips, etc.

dneal
July 26th, 2021, 06:38 AM
You seem to lack any objective sense of what a conspiracy theory is.

The idea that Trump actually won the election and was robbed by (name your suspect group) is a baseless, witless, senseless conspiracy theory.

Rather like all the mad rubbish about vaccines and microchips, etc.

I hope that last typing of random assertions was at least cathartic. And hey! You managed to at least tangenitally stay on topic. Well done!

Chip
July 26th, 2021, 04:20 PM
You managed to at least tangenitally stay on topic. Well done!

My compliments. Straining to amp up your vocabulary, you managed to not only misspell a word but to make a classic slip ala Freud.

By the way, they are somewhat pink, not tan.

No picture. Just use your imagination.

dneal
July 26th, 2021, 04:44 PM
All you have is criticism of a typo, and some nonsense about Freud? *yawn*

Try again.

p.s.: Since you’re such an expert on Freud, the notion of ‘projection’ seems apt.

Chip
July 26th, 2021, 04:59 PM
You are the very definition of boring and nasty.

Ignore list for you.

Bye.

dneal
July 27th, 2021, 05:35 AM
You are the very definition of boring and nasty.

Ignore list for you.

Bye.

Next time don't come out of the gate being a dick, and you won't get that in return.

Chuck Naill
July 27th, 2021, 09:32 AM
You are the very definition of boring and nasty.

Ignore list for you.

Bye.

Next time don't come out of the gate being a dick, and you won't get that in return.

Says the Dick King...LOL!! :)

dneal
July 27th, 2021, 12:26 PM
You are the very definition of boring and nasty.

Ignore list for you.

Bye.

Next time don't come out of the gate being a dick, and you won't get that in return.

Says the Dick King...LOL!! :)

Indeed I can be. Unlike the rest of you, I don’t pretend otherwise. Again, it is funny when you guys get triggered into showing your true nature though.

Apparently for Chuck, it’s a busybody junior high schooler…

Chuck Naill
July 27th, 2021, 03:08 PM
You are the very definition of boring and nasty.

Ignore list for you.

Bye.

Next time don't come out of the gate being a dick, and you won't get that in return.

Says the Dick King...LOL!! :)

Indeed I can be. Unlike the rest of you, I don’t pretend otherwise. Again, it is funny when you guys get triggered into showing your true nature though.

Apparently for Chuck, it’s a busybody junior high schooler…

Hurray for the Dick King. Nothing to add or discuss. Just post more, I suppose.

TSherbs
July 27th, 2021, 07:29 PM
It's comedy, with truth at is core:
http://https://youtu.be/CPj_Gk3FlH0 (https://youtu.be/CPj_Gk3FlH0)

dneal
July 28th, 2021, 05:25 AM
You are the very definition of boring and nasty.

Ignore list for you.

Bye.

Next time don't come out of the gate being a dick, and you won't get that in return.

Says the Dick King...LOL!! :)

Indeed I can be. Unlike the rest of you, I don’t pretend otherwise. Again, it is funny when you guys get triggered into showing your true nature though.

Apparently for Chuck, it’s a busybody junior high schooler…

Hurray for the Dick King. Nothing to add or discuss. Just post more, I suppose.

When the hell have you added or discussed anything worthwhile? Go look at your posts for the last few weeks. Nothing but shit like this. I respond with similar, and you dipshits start whining.

I see why you guys hate Trump so much now. You all exhibit the same behavior. Trump’s a narcissist? Arrogant? Trump is unstable? Trump just says ridiculous shit? Yeah, you guys have a lot in common actually.

Chuck Naill
July 29th, 2021, 05:11 PM
Oh my, the Dick King is complaining that nothing worthwhile has been provided.

Trump is what he is and what he is is readily available.

For the US voter, what Trump is was avaialble by making personal observations on a daily basis.

Of course, if you lack gonads, and don't vote, what's the point in discussing?? Huh??

dneal
July 30th, 2021, 04:30 AM
It is curious to watch you rhetoric devolve into the unintelligible again, but I really wish I could be there when you start screaming to the heavens…

62336

You’re not interested in a conversation that doesn’t accept your wokeness. You did get something right though, there is something approaching a cult in today’s society. It’s you and your woke buddies. The Trump phenomenon is just the backlash to that. It is absolutely hilarious how you and others lose your mind at even the mention of his name.

Chuck Naill
July 30th, 2021, 06:23 AM
You've been told by others besides me that conversation is not possible. You didn't vote. That says it all.

kazoolaw
July 30th, 2021, 08:14 AM
You've been told by others besides me that conversation is not possible. You didn't vote. That says it all.

This response would be more convincing if, instead of continual responses, you stopped actually engaging in conversation, and attempting to get the last word in.

Chuck Naill
July 30th, 2021, 11:31 AM
You've been told by others besides me that conversation is not possible. You didn't vote. That says it all.

This response would be more convincing if, instead of continual responses, you stopped actually engaging in conversation, and attempting to get the last word in.


I have. Where have you been? Asleep? One has to engage with truth and reliable facts inorder to be engaged in meaningful conversation. It requires some rigor and not copy and pasting Fox News et al.

dneal
July 30th, 2021, 01:59 PM
You've been told by others besides me that conversation is not possible. You didn't vote. That says it all.

This response would be more convincing if, instead of continual responses, you stopped actually engaging in conversation, and attempting to get the last word in.


I have. Where have you been? Asleep? One has to engage with truth and reliable facts inorder to be engaged in meaningful conversation. It requires some rigor and not copy and pasting Fox News et al.

Just quoting this for posterity. Delicious.

Chuck Naill
July 31st, 2021, 03:25 PM
I voted for Clinton and then Biden because I could not fathom a Trump presidency based on what he said and his business history and acumen. Nothing that has occurred has caused me to reconsider. BTW, I was a Reagan Republican and voted for Bush one and two, plus Mitt Romney. Never voted for Obama. As Ronald Reagan said decades ago as to why he left the Democratic Party. He said he didn't, they left him.

TSherbs
August 1st, 2021, 08:14 PM
I voted for Clinton and then Biden because I could not fathom a Trump presidency based on what he said and his business history and acumen. Nothing that has occurred has caused me to reconsider. BTW, I was a Reagan Republican and voted for Bush one and two, plus Mitt Romney. Never voted for Obama. As Ronald Reagan said decades ago as to why he left the Democratic Party. He said he didn't, they left him.

I was considering voting for McCain. Until he took on Palin. That was a terrible decision.

Chuck Naill
August 3rd, 2021, 04:37 PM
I voted for Clinton and then Biden because I could not fathom a Trump presidency based on what he said and his business history and acumen. Nothing that has occurred has caused me to reconsider. BTW, I was a Reagan Republican and voted for Bush one and two, plus Mitt Romney. Never voted for Obama. As Ronald Reagan said decades ago as to why he left the Democratic Party. He said he didn't, they left him.

I was considering voting for McCain. Until he took on Palin. That was a terrible decision.

I have no doubt it was a decision that was thrust upon him, or, like me, Palin’s craziness only became apparent later
.

TSherbs
August 4th, 2021, 05:19 AM
I voted for Clinton and then Biden because I could not fathom a Trump presidency based on what he said and his business history and acumen. Nothing that has occurred has caused me to reconsider. BTW, I was a Reagan Republican and voted for Bush one and two, plus Mitt Romney. Never voted for Obama. As Ronald Reagan said decades ago as to why he left the Democratic Party. He said he didn't, they left him.

I was considering voting for McCain. Until he took on Palin. That was a terrible decision.

I have no doubt it was a decision that was thrust upon him, or, like me, Palin’s craziness only became apparent later
.

I also had issues with how McCain sidled up to the religious conservatives. But the man's military history was heroic to me. And for Trump to disparage him and his legacy was unconscionable.

TSherbs
August 6th, 2021, 06:11 AM
Speaking of conspiracy theories, Mike Lindell has been ingesting guano cuz it's in his brain now:

>>>CNN: MyPillow magnate Mike Lindell's latest election conspiracy theory is his most bizarre yet.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/politics/mike-lindell-mypillow-ceo-election-claims-invs/index.html

kazoolaw
August 6th, 2021, 11:52 AM
...or, like me, Palin’s craziness only became apparent later
.

CN,
You sell yourself short: your craziness is immediately apparent.

TSherbs
August 6th, 2021, 05:35 PM
...or, like me, Palin’s craziness only became apparent later
.

CN,
You sell yourself short: your craziness is immediately apparent.


Like other trolls, you enjoy twisting the words of those you disagree with for jollies.

Just as David Brooks described the core of the Trumpian internet defenders: amoral, evasive, unprincipled, dissembling irritators.

TSherbs
August 6th, 2021, 05:52 PM
I have no doubt it was a decision that was thrust upon him...

He owned that decision, and regretted it himself. She was recommended to him, but he made the choice. The buck stopped with him, and he knew it.

TSherbs
August 6th, 2021, 06:22 PM
I see why you guys hate Trump so much now. I have repeatedly explained the reasons why I despise him. This realization should not have taken this long.


You all exhibit the same behavior. What an absurd suggestion. None of us has been president. None of us has had millions of Twitter followers. None of us has publicly lied or misrepresented the truth over 30,000 times in 4 years of running the most powerful country on the planet. None of us spearheaded a rally that lead to an unlawful breaching of the Capitol bldg in order to controvert a free and fair election, and simply because he lost (biggest baby of the year award, for that one). None of us has continued to promulgate negligent and damaging lies about the legitimacy of the election. None of us pressured the DOJ to disparage the legitimacy of the election outcome in Georgia. None of us has been banned from Twitter for spreading dangerous disinformation about the election (unless you have, dneal).


Trump’s a narcissist? yes, he is

Arrogant? yes, he is, but this is not an impeachable problem....except when it leads to criminal behavior.


Trump is unstable?I don't think that he is unstable.


Trump just says ridiculous shit?yes, but everyone does this from time to time. No big deal.


Yeah, you guys have a lot in common actually.False equivalency. See above for explanation.

TSherbs
August 6th, 2021, 06:27 PM
*edited to add: I actually have been suspended by Twitter once (warned, and I had to take the post down or face suspension): I suggested to Ted Cruz that he should punch Trump in the face for his remarks about his father and wife. And believe me, I dislike Cruz! But I would have respected him more if he had done to Trump what most sons and husbands would have wanted to do: punch that bastard in the face.

Cruz might have won the primary after that. Scary thought, tho.

edited again: I would have sent my $10 to the defense gofundme for Cruz when Trump sued him. Just doing my part for "justice". ;)

kazoolaw
August 6th, 2021, 10:49 PM
...or, like me, Palin’s craziness only became apparent later
.

CN,
You sell yourself short: your craziness is immediately apparent.


Like other trolls, you enjoy twisting the words of those you disagree with for jollies.

Just as David Brooks described the core of the Trumpian internet defenders: amoral, evasive, unprincipled, dissembling irritators.
TS-
If you and CN don't mean what you say, please make an effort to say what you mean.
How's that gig at the Aspen Institute working for Brooks? Did you say "conflict of interest?" Quite the example of virtue you picked.

Chuck Naill
August 7th, 2021, 05:58 AM
...or, like me, Palin’s craziness only became apparent later
.

CN,
You sell yourself short: your craziness is immediately apparent.


Like other trolls, you enjoy twisting the words of those you disagree with for jollies.

Just as David Brooks described the core of the Trumpian internet defenders: amoral, evasive, unprincipled, dissembling irritators.
TS-
If you and CN don't mean what you say, please make an effort to say what you mean.
How's that gig at the Aspen Institute working for Brooks? Did you say "conflict of interest?" Quite the example of virtue you picked.


You're more interested in scoring points by distracting, oneupmanship, and whatabout this than having a discussion. I doubt you read Brooks or know much about his conservative history with Buckley, but you most likely Googled something that you could find to deminish him with and posted it here. That doesn't take much effort does it.

I won't speak for TS, but I am not here to win and arguement. You can, I trust, support Trump and still be objective about what's going on with conspiracies.

dneal
August 7th, 2021, 06:37 AM
...or, like me, Palin’s craziness only became apparent later
.

CN,
You sell yourself short: your craziness is immediately apparent.


Like other trolls, you enjoy twisting the words of those you disagree with for jollies.

Just as David Brooks described the core of the Trumpian internet defenders: amoral, evasive, unprincipled, dissembling irritators.
TS-
If you and CN don't mean what you say, please make an effort to say what you mean.
How's that gig at the Aspen Institute working for Brooks? Did you say "conflict of interest?" Quite the example of virtue you picked.


You're more interested in scoring points by distracting, oneupmanship, and whatabout this than having a discussion. I doubt you read Brooks or know much about his conservative history with Buckley, but you most likely Googled something that you could find to deminish him with and posted it here. That doesn't take much effort does it.

I won't speak for TS, but I am not here to win and arguement. You can, I trust, support Trump and still be objective about what's going on with conspiracies.

Love the projection*. Freud would be pleased.

*Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves and attributing them to others.

Chuck Naill
August 7th, 2021, 06:55 AM
Pseudointellectualism in clear view. :bounce:

TSherbs
August 7th, 2021, 07:25 AM
I won't speak for TS, but I am not here to win and arguement.

There is no argument here, not in any formal sense. There is no way to "win" a contest that doesn't actually exist.

My purpose is to occasionally post updates on the topics and occasionally to counter what I consider the most egregious evasions or prevarications or dissemblings. There have been thousands of views of these threads by persons who don't post. I try to keep them in mind. Others can see the exchanges for what they are and make up their own minds.


Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
August 7th, 2021, 07:40 AM
You're more interested in scoring points by distracting, oneupmanship, and whatabout this than having a discussion.

Don't worry. We all saw his trollish move of evading the point I was making by changing what I quoted (my obvious point) to be, as he wrongly asserted, to be a defense of the "virtue" of the writer. Which of course I was not.

And of course being a member of the Aspen Institute is not a "conflict of interest" with professional aspect remotely connected to this topic.

And Kazoo knows these things, but still says them anyway, for the exact reasons that you say.





Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

dneal
August 7th, 2021, 08:12 AM
Pseudointellectualism in clear view. :bounce:

More projection. :bounce:

TSherbs
August 7th, 2021, 09:00 AM
:rolleyes:

Chuck Naill
August 7th, 2021, 01:05 PM
Pseudointellectualism in clear view. :bounce:

More projection. :bounce:

Do you really think anyone considers you a Freudian person with expertise?

dneal
August 7th, 2021, 02:24 PM
Pseudointellectualism in clear view. :bounce:

More projection. :bounce:

Do you really think anyone considers you a Freudian person with expertise?

It never ends… :bounce:

Chuck Naill
August 7th, 2021, 02:31 PM
Pseudointellectualism in clear view. :bounce:

More projection. :bounce:

Do you really think anyone considers you a Freudian person with expertise?

It never ends… :bounce:

Of course it doesn't.....LOL

Conspiracy theorists and dramatic people like you will always have an audiance. They, unlike me, will need their ears tickled.

I'm just responding to your nonsense because so many have sent me PM's saying you are nothing but a troll or worse. I think you are a funny troll and fun, on a Saturday PM, with which to poke a bit and make fun.

Please don't think I take you with much seriousness at all. Cheers dude.....LOL!!

TSherbs
August 8th, 2021, 08:22 AM
I only just heard of this one, that hackers have evidence that a Dominion voting machine "accessed the Internet through a smart thermostat with a net connection trail leading back to China." The quote is from an email by Jeffrey Clark of December 28, 2020 in reference to the draft letter to be sent to the Georgia governor (and others) asking them to call a special session of the legislature to look into "voting irregularities." One of which apparently was that a "smart thermostat" was used by China to access the voting machines.

What we learn about some Trumpian appointees and their willingness to promulgate loony fiction is mind-jarring.

TSherbs
August 8th, 2021, 08:25 AM
This ABC piece has a complete copy of Clark's draft letter (which Rosen, God bless him, refused to sign and send)

https://abcnews.go.com/US/doj-officials-rejected-colleagues-request-intervene-georgias-election/story?id=79243198&catalogId=10051&offerId=65646D&source=IONOTHER&sourceId=x&awc=10844_1628416534_8c81aee4382e256e607d3ffd05fdd 21f&utm_source=AWIN&utm_medium=Affiliate

TSherbs
August 10th, 2021, 06:50 AM
Here is an interesting look at how QAnon has been amplified by Russian internet manipulators and how, ironically, the problem of wack conspiracies has spread to other countries, also:
https://www.pri.org/stories/2021-07-30/foreign-powers-amplified-qanon-content-sow-discord-led-jan-6-capitol-riots

dneal
August 10th, 2021, 01:55 PM
Pseudointellectualism in clear view. :bounce:

More projection. :bounce:

Do you really think anyone considers you a Freudian person with expertise?

It never ends… :bounce:

Of course it doesn't.....LOL

Conspiracy theorists and dramatic people like you will always have an audiance. They, unlike me, will need their ears tickled.

I'm just responding to your nonsense because so many have sent me PM's saying you are nothing but a troll or worse. I think you are a funny troll and fun, on a Saturday PM, with which to poke a bit and make fun.

Please don't think I take you with much seriousness at all. Cheers dude.....LOL!!

The projection continues.

What’s kind of funny is your last comment. Yet more clear evidence of your unoriginality.

Chuck Naill
August 11th, 2021, 12:08 PM
Ha, was there something you intended to say?

dneal
August 22nd, 2021, 01:45 PM
Back to the point of this thread...

I would hate to be the Democratic Party right now. Obama's White House physician is speaking about the obvious cognitive issues. Today's narrative is the edited Stephanoupolos interview and the State Dept's refusal to comment on Biden's awareness of what's going on in Afghanistan, which is a dumpster fire. The rest of the world is more angry at Biden than they ever were at Trump. But Kamala is universally hated. Oooph.

I suppose they are waiting until they find a 2024 candidate to put as Kamala's VP, because lord knows she ain't winning reelection.

It will be interesting to watch.

adhoc
August 22nd, 2021, 02:09 PM
I always had the feeling Joe Biden is not a very loved man, but he was elected on the sole competence of not being Trump. Is this observation wrong? I really did not "feel" the rally behind him from democrat voters on sites like imgur for example, where people lean heavily to D, as I did with Bernie Sanders or even Hillary Clinton.

Before hordes of people make wild assumptions: I'm not American, this is just a feeling I got from online interactions with Americans, and my question is a genuine query as to what Americans of this forum feel about the subject.

dneal
August 22nd, 2021, 03:05 PM
I always had the feeling Joe Biden is not a very loved man, but he was elected on the sole competence of not being Trump. Is this observation wrong? I really did not "feel" the rally behind him from democrat voters on sites like imgur for example, where people lean heavily to D, as I did with Bernie Sanders or even Hillary Clinton.

Before hordes of people make wild assumptions: I'm not American, this is just a feeling I got from online interactions with Americans, and my question is a genuine query as to what Americans of this forum feel about the subject.

You have the meat of it. There are a couple of prominent narratives.

Trump is hated so much, his record number of votes was eclipsed by Biden.
This is because of Republicans unable to tolerate Trump (your Biden is not Trump point).
This is because of voter fraud.

The first statement is a fact. The second and third are what each side generally thinks. Each side is immersed in its echo chamber. Their own "matrix". There are lots of people making a lot of money feeding them more of the same. There are a lot of people in power who realize how easy it can be to steer a mob. Unfortunately they don't pay attention to how easy it is to crash one too.

TSherbs
August 22nd, 2021, 03:52 PM
I always had the feeling Joe Biden is not a very loved man, but he was elected on the sole competence of not being Trump. Is this observation wrong? I really did not "feel" the rally behind him from democrat voters on sites like imgur for example, where people lean heavily to D, as I did with Bernie Sanders or even Hillary Clinton.

Before hordes of people make wild assumptions: I'm not American, this is just a feeling I got from online interactions with Americans, and my question is a genuine query as to what Americans of this forum feel about the subject.

Biden never gained a lot of fervent support. He is old and quaint. He was a reach back toward the past: predictable, mainstream, coalition-minded. He's not all that smart, not all that energetic, not all that charismatic. Once again, the primary field was weak, and the least risky candidate rose to the top and won. Then, to beat the Great Liar, democrats rallied around their candidate.

I wouldn't judge from internet sites mostly populated by young, white, male Americans. Biden gained momentum by winning the black vote in the South Carolina primary. That's not adequately represented on sites like Imgur or Reddit.

Saunders is not a candidate who could win nationally. Clinton did win her primaries, but she was also very unpopular personally. She was beaten by an equally unpopular candidate (Trump), but only because of the apportionment of electors in our Electoral College. Clinton won the over-all popular vote, but as you likely know, this does not count for anything in the national vote for President.

Chuck Naill
August 22nd, 2021, 04:20 PM
I always had the feeling Joe Biden is not a very loved man, but he was elected on the sole competence of not being Trump. Is this observation wrong? I really did not "feel" the rally behind him from democrat voters on sites like imgur for example, where people lean heavily to D, as I did with Bernie Sanders or even Hillary Clinton.

Before hordes of people make wild assumptions: I'm not American, this is just a feeling I got from online interactions with Americans, and my question is a genuine query as to what Americans of this forum feel about the subject.

You have the meat of it. There are a couple of prominent narratives.

Trump is hated so much, his record number of votes was eclipsed by Biden.
This is because of Republicans unable to tolerate Trump (your Biden is not Trump point).
This is because of voter fraud.

The first statement is a fact. The second and third are what each side generally thinks. Each side is immersed in its echo chamber. Their own "matrix". There are lots of people making a lot of money feeding them more of the same. There are a lot of people in power who realize how easy it can be to steer a mob. Unfortunately they don't pay attention to how easy it is to crash one too.

From someone who didn’t vote.

dneal
August 22nd, 2021, 05:51 PM
I always had the feeling Joe Biden is not a very loved man, but he was elected on the sole competence of not being Trump. Is this observation wrong? I really did not "feel" the rally behind him from democrat voters on sites like imgur for example, where people lean heavily to D, as I did with Bernie Sanders or even Hillary Clinton.

Before hordes of people make wild assumptions: I'm not American, this is just a feeling I got from online interactions with Americans, and my question is a genuine query as to what Americans of this forum feel about the subject.

You have the meat of it. There are a couple of prominent narratives.

Trump is hated so much, his record number of votes was eclipsed by Biden.
This is because of Republicans unable to tolerate Trump (your Biden is not Trump point).
This is because of voter fraud.

The first statement is a fact. The second and third are what each side generally thinks. Each side is immersed in its echo chamber. Their own "matrix". There are lots of people making a lot of money feeding them more of the same. There are a lot of people in power who realize how easy it can be to steer a mob. Unfortunately they don't pay attention to how easy it is to crash one too.

From someone who didn’t vote.

Chuck, you can't bait me. You simply don't have the intellect or wit. I pull your strings, easily I might add. It's just boring for the most part now.

Since it seems to be such a sore spot for you, there is a long tradition of military officers not voting. They felt their duty was to the constitution and the nation, and the fact that they could be called upon at any time - even out of retirement - prompted them to not be involved in the decisions of the country. They would simply do their duty. Sherman felt so strongly about it he's famous for stating: "If nominated [for the Presidency] I will not run. If elected I will not serve."

Maybe you find that objectionable. I don't particularly care. It is why you can't bait me on this issue. It's just one more example of your ignorance. Another feeble attempt to attack the person rather than the issue. You make yourself look this way Chuck, not me. You are completely unaware of it. Again, it's amazing.

TSherbs
August 22nd, 2021, 05:56 PM
so boring

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Chuck Naill
August 23rd, 2021, 06:20 AM
I always had the feeling Joe Biden is not a very loved man, but he was elected on the sole competence of not being Trump. Is this observation wrong? I really did not "feel" the rally behind him from democrat voters on sites like imgur for example, where people lean heavily to D, as I did with Bernie Sanders or even Hillary Clinton.

Before hordes of people make wild assumptions: I'm not American, this is just a feeling I got from online interactions with Americans, and my question is a genuine query as to what Americans of this forum feel about the subject.

You have the meat of it. There are a couple of prominent narratives.

Trump is hated so much, his record number of votes was eclipsed by Biden.
This is because of Republicans unable to tolerate Trump (your Biden is not Trump point).
This is because of voter fraud.

The first statement is a fact. The second and third are what each side generally thinks. Each side is immersed in its echo chamber. Their own "matrix". There are lots of people making a lot of money feeding them more of the same. There are a lot of people in power who realize how easy it can be to steer a mob. Unfortunately they don't pay attention to how easy it is to crash one too.

From someone who didn’t vote.

Chuck, you can't bait me. You simply don't have the intellect or wit. I pull your strings, easily I might add. It's just boring for the most part now.

Since it seems to be such a sore spot for you, there is a long tradition of military officers not voting. They felt their duty was to the constitution and the nation, and the fact that they could be called upon at any time - even out of retirement - prompted them to not be involved in the decisions of the country. They would simply do their duty. Sherman felt so strongly about it he's famous for stating: "If nominated [for the Presidency] I will not run. If elected I will not serve."

Maybe you find that objectionable. I don't particularly care. It is why you can't bait me on this issue. It's just one more example of your ignorance. Another feeble attempt to attack the person rather than the issue. You make yourself look this way Chuck, not me. You are completely unaware of it. Again, it's amazing.

If you don't want to exercise your voting rights, that's one thing, but to attempt to make it look honorable, is just more evidence of being passive aggressive or worse a lack of resolve to act on what you say you believe.

Democracies require participation and not just in the military. That's why we need a free press that all opinions and persepctives might be heard, not just yours or mine. Courage and being brave are not reserved for the military. Doctors, nurses, school teachers, restaurant workers, and others put themselves in harms way everyday. They vote and are engaged. I think yours is just an excuse or hiding behind the flag.

Do you also think not getting a vaccine is a badge of honor?

It got your panies in wad that I said don't ask for an ICU bed, “Well, well, well, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions.” The fact is, because medical professionals are brave and the system is blind (generally). You would get your bed and their bravery to risk their own well being would be shelved, and you'd get hopefully made well.

adhoc
August 23rd, 2021, 06:26 AM
What's the matter with you three? You're acting like little girls.

dneal
August 23rd, 2021, 06:54 AM
What's the matter with you three? You're acting like little girls.

You would ask that after your experience with the vaccine thread? Clearly you're a Trumpist... lol

Chuck Naill
August 23rd, 2021, 07:32 AM
What's the matter with you three? You're acting like little girls.

I consider that a compliment and your're a misogynist.

adhoc
August 23rd, 2021, 07:37 AM
What's the matter with you three? You're acting like little girls.

I consider that a compliment and your're a misogynist.

Hahahahaha, oh wow!

Chuck Naill
August 23rd, 2021, 08:06 AM
Yeah, it's always men who make such stupid comments and often fathers of little girls. You have to wonder if they really know their children.

adhoc
August 23rd, 2021, 09:07 AM
I will not be dragged to the bottom where you feed. Goodbye.

Chuck Naill
August 23rd, 2021, 10:37 AM
As usual, run away with your tail tucked .

Chuck Naill
August 23rd, 2021, 10:41 AM
Rather than own your words, stupid and ignorant as they were, you try to save face by suggesting you’ll not be dragged down.
Down is up .

dneal
August 23rd, 2021, 04:23 PM
Wow Chuck. Just wow. The cracks are showing.

Take a breath. It's ok for adhoc to ask a question about something you have already been told your opinion on. There are no witches to burn. There's nothing wrong with skepticism. Every point he made was rational.

Chuck Naill
August 24th, 2021, 09:34 AM
I’m wasting time responding. Hope others will post. Cheers

TSherbs
August 25th, 2021, 05:37 AM
Here's a real conspiracy, now being punished:

The Hill: FCC proposes $5M fine against conservative activists for robocalls

https://thehill.com/regulation/technology/569264-fcc-proposes-5m-fine-against-jacob-wohl-jack-burkman-for-robocalls

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
August 25th, 2021, 05:48 AM
And shall we add conspiracy to kidnap:

Update on the case against the kidnap planners of Gov Whitmer of Michigan:

https://apnews.com/article/michigan-gretchen-whitmer-grand-rapids-c502551bd6fa4af0a8706d0b9653e653

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Chuck Naill
August 25th, 2021, 06:46 AM
And shall we add conspiracy to kidnap:

Update on the case against the kidnap planners of Gov Whitmer of Michigan:

https://apnews.com/article/michigan-gretchen-whitmer-grand-rapids-c502551bd6fa4af0a8706d0b9653e653

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

How sad. When will Trump ever have to personally account for his actions and words? I am not saying he pulled the trigger, but just his trolling and baiting the ignorant to do his will.

It is also sad that such a young person need waste his life in prison.

dneal
August 25th, 2021, 07:16 AM
This is about Biden's fitness and future. Not Robocalls, Whitmer or Trump.

Chuck Naill
August 25th, 2021, 10:18 AM
You’re on the wrong thread again…lol!! 😂😂😂

kazoolaw
August 25th, 2021, 10:34 AM
This is about Biden's fitness and future. Not Robocalls, Whitmer or Trump.


You’re on the wrong thread again…lol!! 😂😂😂

"Speaking of conspiracy theories...
How long does the Biden Presidency last?"

Sorry Chuck,
Topic title, and first line of first post in this thread.
Please take a bit more time so that you can come back composed and on topic.
Best wishes.

Chuck Naill
August 25th, 2021, 10:40 AM
Right on cue…👍👍I guess.😂😂😂

TSherbs
August 25th, 2021, 05:27 PM
This is about Biden's fitness and future. Not Robocalls, Whitmer or Trump.Feel free to ignore my posts. No one else is really posting news updates here, so I thought that I would. Only those interested need to read them and respond.

I have seen no news about the "conspiracy" in the OP, so I have provided some actual news on real "conspiracies".

Others can provide it if they wish.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
August 25th, 2021, 07:30 PM
You’re on the wrong thread again…lol!! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

"Speaking of conspiracy theories...
How long does the Biden Presidency last?"

Sorry Chuck,
Topic title, and first line of first post in this thread.
Please take a bit more time so that you can come back composed and on topic.
Best wishes.
Shut up, Kazoo. You're just another chirping douchebag. It's a thread on conspiracy theories. The OP is a weak one, based on boring speculation. Go ahead and post more on it if you want if you think there is any validity to it. Stop whining.

Meanwhile, when a real political conspiracy is being prosecuted in a court, I am going to post it whenever I feel like it. Others might be interested in reading it even if you are not.

dneal
August 26th, 2021, 04:06 AM
"The OP is a weak one, based on boring speculation".

Except Biden's competency is a subject of national news. "Boring speculation"? No wonder you scour the web for more Trump news to post haphazardly. Maybe Chuck is contagious.

But the real point here is that just like Biden, you and Chuck don't seem to be dealing well with politics. Why would you respond to kazoolaw with that, when his post wasn't even directed at you? Everyone who disagrees with you needs to shut up, go away, or ignore you. You come across as a bossy 10 year old girl. "Shut up". "Go away". *rolleyes*

kazoolaw
August 26th, 2021, 04:10 AM
TS-
Take a breath, hold it, release slowly.
People might be interested in your clam chowder recipe, which you can also post whenever you like.
Shoot, I might even like it.
Doesn't mean it's on topic.
As an aside, have you found this style to be effective?

TSherbs
August 26th, 2021, 04:28 AM
Everyone who disagrees with you needs to shut up, go away, or ignore you.

Nope. Just you two when you are assholes.

You haven't posted anything more about Biden's brain power in weeks. To suggest that Chuck or I get back on your topic, and to suggest to Chuck or me that we need to calm down, is just prickishness. Sometimes, just for the sake of others who read the threads, jerks have to be called jerks.

If you actually care about the topic of this thread at all, if there are news articles on this topic, then go ahead and post one. Let's see what a reporter has gathered. Otherwise, it looks like you just want to troll.

TSherbs
August 26th, 2021, 04:45 AM
.
As an aside, have you found this style to be effective?


Effective toward what?

I don't care if you ever read my posts. I am not writing them for any effect on you or anyone else.





Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

dneal
August 26th, 2021, 04:51 AM
I am not writing them for any effect on you or anyone else.

and you're doing a very good job of that.

kazoolaw
August 26th, 2021, 05:04 AM
Effective toward what?

I don't care if you ever read my posts. I am not writing them for any effect on you or anyone else.

I can see being ineffective is very frustrating for you.

Chuck Naill
August 26th, 2021, 06:59 AM
I had to look back at the OP. It was written in December 2020. It was a Trumpian statement about Bidens cognitive decline. Looking back at the campaign, the Trump team was having a hard time finding anything that would stick against Biden and so the cognitive ability and name calling (sleepy joe)began. @dneal is just repeating Trump while offering no evidence to show the Joe is declining. Whether he is or is not was never really the issue.

@tsherbs and I have posted what Trump said and his actions to which the local Trumpians have been unable or unwilling to address except for "whataboutthis" posts. Therefore, while I cannot speak for @tsherbs, "frustration" would not be the way I would discribe what I am thinking. Personally, it appears we've been very effective is bringing out that @dneal didn't vote for Trump, get a vaccine, and that he feels entitled in case he needs an ICU bed with no regard for his community or children the he might infect. For me that makes him an ineffective sparing partner.

We've shown the local Trumpians have never read the January 6 transcript. They have no idea what their idol said. I think that's pretty clear given what they've written. So, the strategy appears to be passive agression, parroting Trump, and being in general a PITA. All this helps me to better understand the mind of those who support what has become the Republican Party.

Hopefully others will post or the thread can die.

kazoolaw
August 26th, 2021, 07:52 AM
We've shown the local Trumpians have never read the January 6 transcript.
C'mon, man!
"Asked 10 years before Watergate whether Richard Nixon had ever read the Constitution, Truman replied, “If he has, he doesn’t understand it.”
CN, if you've read the transcript or posts in this thread you don't understand them.
Not even the FBI thinks Trump incited the riot, which you acknowledged when TS explained it to you.

kazoolaw
August 26th, 2021, 07:57 AM
Would you like information on the questioning of Biden's mental health, I give you the Democrats:
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/09/it-was-democrats-and-their-media-allies-who-impugned-bidens-cognitive-fitness-yet-now-feign-outrage/
Aren't those your people?

Chuck Naill
August 26th, 2021, 08:10 AM
We've shown the local Trumpians have never read the January 6 transcript.
C'mon, man!
"Asked 10 years before Watergate whether Richard Nixon had ever read the Constitution, Truman replied, “If he has, he doesn’t understand it.”
CN, if you've read the transcript or posts in this thread you don't understand them.
Not even the FBI thinks Trump incited the riot, which you acknowledged when TS explained it to you.


How is quoting Truman germane to what I wrote? This is whataboutthis and does nothing to further your arguement. First thought is that you'd rather post about Nixon than address the transcript.

The FBI concluded Trump was not directly involve in organizing. This is why I question your reading capacity.

Here is a question to which I doubt you're going to be able to respond. If Trump didn't build the fire, did he throw on gasoline? You'll have to read the transcript to find the answer.

dneal
August 26th, 2021, 11:02 AM
dneal is just repeating Trump while offering no evidence to show the Joe is declining. Whether he is or is not was never really the issue.

Dear Chuck, you do know that Biden’s mental capacity was a question before the election, and is more so now. What evidence would you like? It has been a topic of discussion nationally. Biden is off. Obama’s doctor said so. If you disagree you’re a science-denying racist. That’s how this works, right?

I’ll just assume you were unaware and it’s a good thing we circled back to catch you up, like your recent discovery of the transcript dated January. Ooh, you seem to have some problem with dates. Does your January article count toward that too? No? Hmmm. That would make you a hypocrite.

I think I am starting to see a trend with you, Chuck.

dneal
August 26th, 2021, 11:07 AM
We've shown the local Trumpians have never read the January 6 transcript.
C'mon, man!
"Asked 10 years before Watergate whether Richard Nixon had ever read the Constitution, Truman replied, “If he has, he doesn’t understand it.”
CN, if you've read the transcript or posts in this thread you don't understand them.
Not even the FBI thinks Trump incited the riot, which you acknowledged when TS explained it to you.


How is quoting Truman germane to what I wrote? This is whataboutthis and does nothing to further your arguement. First thought is that you'd rather post about Nixon than address the transcript.

The FBI concluded Trump was not directly involve in organizing. This is why I question your reading capacity.

Here is a question to which I doubt you're going to be able to respond. If Trump didn't build the fire, did he throw on gasoline? You'll have to read the transcript to find the answer.

Here Chuck. Since you have problems understanding abstract ideas like analogies, I bolded the pertinent parts to help you understand.

TSherbs
August 26th, 2021, 12:03 PM
Would you like information on the questioning of Biden's mental health, I give you the Democrats:
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/09/it-was-democrats-and-their-media-allies-who-impugned-bidens-cognitive-fitness-yet-now-feign-outrage/
Aren't those your people?


This is an article from March 2020 quoting some people who ask the question about his age and mental acuity.

I have no issues with this article, as far as it goes. It reports that people have asked the question. No one disputes that. I sure don't.

This isn't about actual diagnoses, nor is it about any conspiracy theory to replace the man. After all, he still had not won the nomination yet, even.

Anything more recent than from 17 months ago during the campaign?

kazoolaw
August 26th, 2021, 12:37 PM
TS-
Appreciate your attempt at discussion, so let me make an effort.
"Some people" is an unfortunate sounds-like "some people did something."
Conspiracy to replace the man: Dems also floated the idea of using the 25th Amendment. Then Harris [who no one seems to like] gets moved up, and there goes the Dem tie breaking vote. Recall it was Dems who asked for a change in Presidential control of the nuclear arsenal.
"This isn't about actual diagnoses" is true as far as it goes, but Joe won't submit to cognitive testing. Until Trump, psychiatrists seemed to abide by the Goldwater Rule:

Section 7.3 of The Principles of Medical Ethics With Annotations Especially Applicable to Psychiatry (sometimes called “The Goldwater Rule”) explicitly states that psychiatrists may share expertise about psychiatric issues in general but that it is unethical for a psychiatrist to offer a professional opinion about an individual based on publicly available information without conducting an examination.

For more recent events scroll through Joe's recent public appearances. Whether they are lies, or mistakes, they reflect a break with reality.

dneal
August 26th, 2021, 12:57 PM
Here’s (https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-screams-at-pigeon-i-dont-need-a-cognitive-test) an article from this month raising the issue.

Chuck Naill
August 26th, 2021, 01:09 PM
That’s a self discribed satire news source…..😂😂😂

dneal
August 26th, 2021, 01:20 PM
Chuck, did you think I didn't know that?

*rolleyes* (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/33292-With-the-Washington-Post-s-history-of-lying-why-do-people-still-read-it?p=314166&viewfull=1#post314166)

Chuck Naill
August 26th, 2021, 01:48 PM
Chuck, did you think I didn't know that?
*rolleyes* (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/33292-With-the-Washington-Post-s-history-of-lying-why-do-people-still-read-it?p=314166&viewfull=1#post314166)

I figured you didn’t. 🤭🤭🤭

TSherbs
August 26th, 2021, 05:15 PM
For more recent events scroll through Joe's recent public appearances. Whether they are lies, or mistakes, they reflect a break with reality.


I'm not doing your work, kazoo. Post any clip of any event that YOU think is a "break from reality." Then others of us will look at it and comment.

For example, the reference in the article above that includes switching his wife and his daughter's names is not persuasive to me. I call my two sons by the wrong name from time to time, and in this scenario I would be deeming suffering a "break with reality" or some sort of cognitive decline. That's very weak evidence of anything.

By the way, Trump was right to not submit to cognitive testing, and so is Biden--there was no cause except some weird late night rants--nor was I ever worried about his cognitive "grasp on reality." You're going to have to do a lot more than this political bullshit on either side to persuade me of anything serious cognitively wrong with Trump or Biden (or anyone else) that would in anyway jeopardize a President's fitness to serve. So I have very little room to accept any conspiracy theory about trying to get Kamala Harris installed as Pres, or anyone else. I think that that is frivolous fiction. If you are looking to entice an anti-Trumper into an argument about cognitive testing or unfitness, I am not the one.

My opposition to Trump is based on entirely different matters than cognitive unfitness. I did not even support impeachment (I have not supported any of the impeachment proceedings since Nixon). I just wanted 2020 to come around to vote the fucker out. Mission accomplished.

kazoolaw
August 27th, 2021, 04:01 AM
TS-
I understand that you believe that everything you've seen from Biden is normal. Don't agree.
You voted Trump out, now you own Biden.

TSherbs
August 27th, 2021, 05:26 AM
"not normal" doesn't mean anything to me

Are you looking for that clip?

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Chuck Naill
August 27th, 2021, 08:02 AM
Personally, owning Biden is not something that's difficult for me to justify. I am very happy I had the time to investigate Trump. Not supporting him was one of the easiest events in my life, and this from a Reagan Republican. :)

Chuck Naill
August 27th, 2021, 09:56 AM
Was thinking that people who only listen or read Trump , or worse only believe Trump, do themselves a disservice.

kazoolaw
August 28th, 2021, 04:29 AM
"not normal" doesn't mean anything to me

Explains much.

TSherbs
August 28th, 2021, 08:02 AM
Explains much.


Whenever you post a clip of Joe appearing cognitively impaired to the point of being unfit for office, I'll respond.




Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
August 28th, 2021, 08:09 AM
Personally, owning Biden is not something that's difficult for me to justify.

I voted for him. He won my county and my state. He won many other states and the Electoral College, so he became president. I'm not sure what else there is to "own". ??



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

kazoolaw
August 28th, 2021, 09:58 AM
Explains much.


Whenever you post a clip of Joe appearing cognitively impaired to the point of being unfit for office, I'll respond.

No point in doing that when you can't tell what's abnormal.

Chuck Naill
August 28th, 2021, 02:38 PM
Personally, owning Biden is not something that's difficult for me to justify.

I voted for him. He won my county and my state. He won many other states and the Electoral College, so he became president. I'm not sure what else there is to "own". ??



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Very true.

Chuck Naill
August 28th, 2021, 02:41 PM
Explains much.


Whenever you post a clip of Joe appearing cognitively impaired to the point of being unfit for office, I'll respond.

No point in doing that when you can't tell what's abnormal.

Worse is having to have someone else tell you it’s abnormal. @tehrbs doesn’t need someone like you apparently.

TSherbs
August 28th, 2021, 02:49 PM
Explains much.


Whenever you post a clip of Joe appearing cognitively impaired to the point of being unfit for office, I'll respond.

No point in doing that when you can't tell what's abnormal.


Well, gee Wally, if you're going to make a case, you have to do it yourself.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

kazoolaw
August 28th, 2021, 03:41 PM
Explains much.


Whenever you post a clip of Joe appearing cognitively impaired to the point of being unfit for office, I'll respond.

No point in doing that when you can't tell what's abnormal.


Well, gee Wally, if you're going to make a case, you have to do it yourself.

Sure thimg little bro.. All men and women are created, by the, you know, you know the thing.

kazoolaw
August 28th, 2021, 03:50 PM
Explains much.


Whenever you post a clip of Joe appearing cognitively impaired to the point of being unfit for office, I'll respond.

No point in doing that when you can't tell what's abnormal.

Worse is having to have someone else tell you it’s abnormal. @tehrbs doesn’t need someone like you apparently.

I agree: it's worse having to explain to TSherbs what abnormal is. C'mon man, it's like trying to mobilize trunalimunumaprzure.

Chuck Naill
August 30th, 2021, 02:27 PM
You’re just trying to be cute and it isn’t working .

kazoolaw
August 30th, 2021, 03:25 PM
You’re just trying to be cute and it isn’t working .

C'mon man, you know that's no so.

Chuck Naill
August 30th, 2021, 03:53 PM
Change your name to “c’mon man…”

Seriously, you cannot respond to your own threads. You wrangle and hyperbolize (is that a word?).

You wanted fo chastise Biden’s interpretation and then pulled out the evangelism. That means there was no reason to whine unless you don’t think he’s included in “all”. Stop trying to be cute . Is truly isn’t working and your not making your point.

kazoolaw
August 30th, 2021, 04:19 PM
Change your name to “c’mon man…”

Seriously, you cannot respond to your own threads. You wrangle and hyperbolize (is that a word?).

You wanted fo chastise Biden’s interpretation and then pulled out the evangelism. That means there was no reason to whine unless you don’t think he’s included in “all”. Stop trying to be cute . Is truly isn’t working and your not making your point.

Chuck,
"C'mon man" is your man's line.
The fact you don't see the point doesn't mean there isn't one.
"You...then pulled out the evangelism."
Oops.
Chuck, did you notice you're in the wrong thread again: no evangelism here.
Have a nice night.

Chuck Naill
August 31st, 2021, 09:17 AM
Change your name to “c’mon man…”

Seriously, you cannot respond to your own threads. You wrangle and hyperbolize (is that a word?).

You wanted fo chastise Biden’s interpretation and then pulled out the evangelism. That means there was no reason to whine unless you don’t think he’s included in “all”. Stop trying to be cute . Is truly isn’t working and your not making your point.

Chuck,
"C'mon man" is your man's line.
The fact you don't see the point doesn't mean there isn't one.
"You...then pulled out the evangelism."
Oops.
Chuck, did you notice you're in the wrong thread again: no evangelism here.
Have a nice night.


My bad, you introduced Evangelicalism in a different thread.

kazoolaw
August 31st, 2021, 11:24 AM
My bad, you introduced Evangelicalism in a different thread.

Remind me, did you use the E word or did I?

Chuck Naill
August 31st, 2021, 11:30 AM
My bad, you introduced Evangelicalism in a different thread.

Remind me, did you use the E word or did I?

You said something about “all have sinned…” . Did I misread?

kazoolaw
August 31st, 2021, 12:24 PM
My bad, you introduced Evangelicalism in a different thread.

Remind me, did you use the E word or did I?

You said something about “all have sinned…” . Did I misread?

As you've quoted 1 Tim, I guess we've both introduced Evangelicalism Brother Chuck.

Chuck Naill
August 31st, 2021, 02:56 PM
My bad, you introduced Evangelicalism in a different thread.

Remind me, did you use the E word or did I?

You said something about “all have sinned…” . Did I misread?

As you've quoted 1 Tim, I guess we've both introduced Evangelicalism Brother Chuck.


No, it was you and certainly not me. You have a vivid imagination.

kazoolaw
August 31st, 2021, 06:14 PM
I may have a vivid imagination, but I can't imagine you forgetting Post 27 in the topic Biden and the Bible.. I think that's you quoting 1 Timothy 5:2.
Be well, and good night.

dneal
September 1st, 2021, 07:29 AM
Another futile attempt to get back on topic, but a friend posted this elsewhere. The second post (the latter portion in particular, since some will be triggered at the sight of the name of the orange one) has some insight. For those who base everything on politics, this person is a lifelong Democrat. A Mondale and Dukakis voter.


Do those who have concluded that Joe Biden is incapable of communicating coherently without prompters actually believe that he is making critically important decisions without prompters? He says and does what the prompters direct him to say and do. They have directed him, with his cooperation, into a situation where most of the country is now ready for him to leave office, and the prompters are ready to replace him.


Love him or hate him, Donald Trump was not controlled by "prompters". Republican Party "prompters" could not control him, and did not want him in office. In fact, they were nearly as anxious to get rid of him, and stay rid of him, as the Democrats. The Dem prompters got fully behind Biden's candidacy because they could control him, and he wanted it more than anything else in the world in order to enhance his legacy. Do you think he would have been willing to follow their direction if they promised to get behind him? So, they literally did everything they could to get him into office. Once there, he was subject to their manipulation and control, due to vulnerability that resulted from his involvement in shady dealings in Ukraine, China, etc., as well as his rapidly deteriorating mental functions. In my opinion, their plan (all along) was to use him as their presidential puppet for as long as the arrangement worked, then simply allow him to blunder his way to impeachment, or to removal from office via the 25th Amendment. In any case, next in line is Kamala. Do you remember that she was blown off the Dem candidate stage by a hugely more competent Tulsi Gabbard? That basically ended her bid for the Dem nomination... yet, they chose her for his running mate! Why would that be? Think maybe she expressed a willingness to take direction from the prompters, as long as they make her President? It's a win-win... Kamala gets to be the first female president, and the prompters get another puppet to control. No? Okay, change my mind.

Chuck Naill
September 1st, 2021, 08:34 AM
Being “uncontrollable” is not a positive trait with presidential power.

People will support authoritarian leaders until they don’t. When it’s too late.

It’s sad and humorous how the same people screaming for freedom will support the very people who would control that freedom.

Praise God for people who can see the danger of absolute power and work to never allow it to occur on their watch.

Empty_of_Clouds
September 3rd, 2021, 04:22 PM
https://i.imgur.com/RS5InUTl.jpg

Chuck Naill
September 3rd, 2021, 04:28 PM
EOC you are a genius

TSherbs
September 3rd, 2021, 05:11 PM
:)

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

dneal
September 4th, 2021, 09:01 AM
EOC you are a genius

Nope. Just a meme plagiarized by lefties, because the left can’t meme.

Let’s see what Snopes (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alien-nation/) has to say, since you guys like that. Hmmm, the politicians are different than EoC’s. I guess it doesn’t matter since Snopes authoritatively declares this “FALSE”. But you know I don’t trust Snopes…

So let’s find another. Oooh, here’s (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/09/fact-check-false-claim-ties-births-prominent-dems-ufo-crash/7140281002/) a good one from USA Today! Oh, it just references Snopes; but they are stunning and brave enough to also independently render their verdict that this is “FALSE”. Hmmm. What about “checkyourfact.com (https://checkyourfact.com/2020/05/08/fact-check-nine-democratic-politicans-born-1947-roswell-ufo-incident/)”? More Democrats and more “FALSE”.

But now that it has been stolen by lefties, and the names simply changed; is it still false? I thought you believed this sort of disinformation should be shut down? Anyway, I didn’t spend a lot of time looking, because it’s just satire; which Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-roswell-meme-idUSL2N2NP23V) is apparently able to identify. I wonder why they didn’t fact check the original too? I wonder if they know the original listed Democrats? Do liberals only understand satire when they’re not the subject?

Chuck Naill
September 4th, 2021, 09:23 AM
We and They by Rudyard Kipling

Father, Mother, and Me,
Sister and Auntie say
All the people like us are We,
And every one else is They.
And They live over the sea,
While We live over the way,
But would you believe it?
They look upon We
As only a sort of They!

We eat port and beef
With cow-horn-handled knives,
They who gobble Their rice off a loaf,
Are horrified out of Their lives;
While They who live up a tree,
And feast on grubs and clay,
(Isn’t it scandalous?) look upon We
As a simply disgusting They!

We shoot birds with a gun.
They stick lions with spears.
Their full-dress is un-.
We dress up to Our ears.
They like Their friends for tea,
We like Our friends to stay;
And, after all that,
They look upon We
As an utterly ignorant They!

We eat kitcheny food.
We have doors that latch.
They drink milk or blood,
Under an open thatch.
We have doctors to fee.
They have Wizards to pay.
And (impudent heathen!)
They look upon We
As a quite impossible They!

All good people agree,
And all good people say,
All nice people, like Us, are We
And every one else is They:
But if you cross over the sea,
Instead of over the way,
You may end by (think of it!)
Looking on We
As only a sort of They!

Empty_of_Clouds
September 4th, 2021, 02:20 PM
EOC you are a genius

Nope. Just a meme plagiarized by lefties, because the left can’t meme.

Let’s see what Snopes (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alien-nation/) has to say, since you guys like that. Hmmm, the politicians are different than EoC’s. I guess it doesn’t matter since Snopes authoritatively declares this “FALSE”. But you know I don’t trust Snopes…

So let’s find another. Oooh, here’s (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/09/fact-check-false-claim-ties-births-prominent-dems-ufo-crash/7140281002/) a good one from USA Today! Oh, it just references Snopes; but they are stunning and brave enough to also independently render their verdict that this is “FALSE”. Hmmm. What about “checkyourfact.com (https://checkyourfact.com/2020/05/08/fact-check-nine-democratic-politicans-born-1947-roswell-ufo-incident/)”? More Democrats and more “FALSE”.

But now that it has been stolen by lefties, and the names simply changed; is it still false? I thought you believed this sort of disinformation should be shut down? Anyway, I didn’t spend a lot of time looking, because it’s just satire; which Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-roswell-meme-idUSL2N2NP23V) is apparently able to identify. I wonder why they didn’t fact check the original too? I wonder if they know the original listed Democrats? Do liberals only understand satire when they’re not the subject?



Ooh, triggered AND a sense of humour failure. Well done!

dneal
September 4th, 2021, 03:55 PM
EOC you are a genius

Nope. Just a meme plagiarized by lefties, because the left can’t meme.

Let’s see what Snopes (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alien-nation/) has to say, since you guys like that. Hmmm, the politicians are different than EoC’s. I guess it doesn’t matter since Snopes authoritatively declares this “FALSE”. But you know I don’t trust Snopes…

So let’s find another. Oooh, here’s (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/09/fact-check-false-claim-ties-births-prominent-dems-ufo-crash/7140281002/) a good one from USA Today! Oh, it just references Snopes; but they are stunning and brave enough to also independently render their verdict that this is “FALSE”. Hmmm. What about “checkyourfact.com (https://checkyourfact.com/2020/05/08/fact-check-nine-democratic-politicans-born-1947-roswell-ufo-incident/)”? More Democrats and more “FALSE”.

But now that it has been stolen by lefties, and the names simply changed; is it still false? I thought you believed this sort of disinformation should be shut down? Anyway, I didn’t spend a lot of time looking, because it’s just satire; which Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-roswell-meme-idUSL2N2NP23V) is apparently able to identify. I wonder why they didn’t fact check the original too? I wonder if they know the original listed Democrats? Do liberals only understand satire when they’re not the subject?



Ooh, triggered AND a sense of humour failure. Well done!

Still the plagiarist, I see.

p.s.: I just explained to Chuck the problem of trying to adopt my tactics; and now you come along and try the same?

You had an enormous opportunity with those three paragraphs, and you pissed it away due to (like Chuck) the absence of sufficient intelligence and wit. Jeezus you guys are amateurs.

This is why I don’t like having these types of conversations. None of you pose a challenge. You’re internet hyenas, squelching real discussion with petty partisanship and pathetic efforts to “win” something (and I think that ‘something’ is maintaining your self-contradictory worldview). It’s much more fun to discuss things civilly and objectively.

Chuck Naill
September 4th, 2021, 04:00 PM
😂😂😂

Empty_of_Clouds
September 4th, 2021, 04:48 PM
Still the plagiarist, I see.

I serpently am! So sue me.



p.s.: I just explained to Chuck the problem of trying to adopt my tactics; and now you come along and try the same?

See above, but really your 'tactics' are unworthy of the term, and that's why they are so easy to copy.



You had an enormous opportunity with those three paragraphs, and you pissed it away due to (like Chuck) the absence of sufficient intelligence and wit.

Ah, an insult. this is dneal 101.



Jeezus you guys are amateurs.

Another insult. Not really any better than the first.



This is why I don’t like having these types of conversations.

And yet here you are, perpetuating them.



You’re internet hyenas, squelching real discussion with petty partisanship and pathetic efforts to “win” something (and I think that ‘something’ is maintaining your self-contradictory worldview).

Ooh, another insult. Doesn't show much by way of evolution though.




It’s much more fun to discuss things civilly and objectively.

It is. I enthusiastically encourage you to try it sometime. :)

dneal
September 4th, 2021, 05:45 PM
Brother, the gloves have been off for some time now. Why are you trying to claim some moral high ground now? We have both insulted each other. I'm not ashamed to admit it like you guys are. Well, tried on your end because there is only one person on the planet whose opinion of me I care about.

You said you served. I enlisted when Reagan was President, and retired 32 years later. How thick do you think my skin is? I'm not even close to being mean yet, if you're bothered by what I've said so far. You just don't inspire the effort. You don't get under my skin.

So we both know this will continue.
Maybe a new variant will come along and we'll be like dinosaurs.
Then it won't even matter.

*meditation bell ring*

Empty_of_Clouds
September 4th, 2021, 06:45 PM
I'm not bothered by any of your insults, from a personal sense, you just don't have the ability to do that (I doubt anyone does really). It amuses me somewhat, and perhaps serves to make a point, to simply signpost your abusive comments.


You said you served. I enlisted when Reagan was President, and retired 32 years later. How thick do you think my skin is? I'm not even close to being mean yet, if you're bothered by what I've said so far. You just don't inspire the effort. You don't get under my skin.


If you think this is intimidating in some way then you are seriously mistaken. The statement just illustrates how crass you can be.


However, on a more serious note, the presentation of your self on these boards does make having a civil discussion among interested parties laborious. And, as you have not shown any desire or ability to sustain civility there is no reason for me or other participants to believe that will change.


And lest we forget...

dneal wrote


Dude, I ain't looking at another thing from you in this thread.

If only that were true!

Chuck Naill
September 4th, 2021, 06:45 PM
There is more than one way to serve.

dneal
September 4th, 2021, 07:04 PM
I'm not bothered by any of your insults, from a personal sense, you just don't have the ability to do that (I doubt anyone does really). It amuses me somewhat, and perhaps serves to make a point, to simply signpost your abusive comments.



If you think this is intimidating in some way then you are seriously mistaken. The statement just illustrates how crass you can be.


However, on a more serious note, the presentation of your self on these boards does make having a civil discussion among interested parties laborious. And, as you have not shown any desire or ability to sustain civility there is no reason for me or other participants to believe that will change.


And lest we forget...

dneal wrote


Dude, I ain't looking at another thing from you in this thread.

If only that were true!

Intimidating? I’m curious how you envision this playing out. Do I take a zodiac boat to New Zealand and attack in the dark of night? A comment being but a prelude to nefarious international incident?

Someone who served understands the saltiness of the environment and the need to be able to take a joke. I spent a lot of that time in that environment. You apparently didn’t.

I’m not looking at another newly introduced link from you. Sorry I was imprecise, but when everything is subject to your penchant for invention through inference - not to mention your ongoing problem with punctuation - I don’t see that it really matters.

Chuck Naill
September 4th, 2021, 07:17 PM
32 years produced this mentality?

Empty_of_Clouds
September 4th, 2021, 07:19 PM
You weren't imprecise, you just made an error in what you wrote.


Someone who served understands the saltiness of the environment and the need to be able to take a joke. I spent a lot of that time in that environment. You apparently didn’t.

Another unsupported accusation. Why did you leave out your statement about the military? Seems a somewhat singular omission to me. Here it is, for those who were missing it:


You said you served. I enlisted when Reagan was President, and retired 32 years later. How thick do you think my skin is? I'm not even close to being mean yet, if you're bothered by what I've said so far. You just don't inspire the effort. You don't get under my skin.

The first three sentences are attempts to big yourself up. The next one is written as a kind of (ineffectual) threat. The next is dismissive, and leads very nicely to the logical last sentence which seems to be... a lie.


Oh,

And lest we forget...

dneal wrote


Dude, I ain't looking at another thing from you in this thread.

dneal
September 4th, 2021, 07:48 PM
You can get back on topic any time.

dneal
September 4th, 2021, 07:53 PM
32 years produced this mentality?

Take note EoC. Chuck must have seen your challenge so he's adding my service to his list. Is there no low he will not stoop to so he can win the king dick award?

Is this really what you want this forum to be? I'm only one guy, but I can handle the bullying you guys attempt. Bring as many as you like. (32 years produced that, Chuck).

Empty_of_Clouds
September 4th, 2021, 08:11 PM
Bringing up your military service to try and bolster yourself on an internet discussion forum is a fairly low thing to do.

What you could do... and I realise this is a thorny thing to suggest... is, I dunno, try being civil. A common description of civility could be '...behaviors that produce feelings of respect, dignity, and trust.' If you don't care about respect, dignity and trust, and want to continue to insult and generally be unpleasant to others here, then you can hardly complain when other participants push back. Maybe you like that?


And lest we forget...

dneal wrote


Dude, I ain't looking at another thing from you in this thread.


^^^ this after the umpteenth response since originally posting it. :rolleyes:

dneal
September 4th, 2021, 08:41 PM
Your ability to strawman is impressive.

Empty_of_Clouds
September 4th, 2021, 08:51 PM
dneal wrote:
You said you served. I enlisted when Reagan was President, and retired 32 years later. How thick do you think my skin is? I'm not even close to being mean yet, if you're bothered by what I've said so far. You just don't inspire the effort. You don't get under my skin.

Braggadocio, empty threat, dismissal, lie. It's all there in the quote. No need for me to employ my apparently impressive ability to strawman (which really isn't a verb).


Oh, and... And lest we forget...

dneal wrote
Dude, I ain't looking at another thing from you in this thread.

Empty_of_Clouds
September 4th, 2021, 09:35 PM
https://i.imgur.com/hufbaAkl.jpg

Empty_of_Clouds
September 5th, 2021, 05:15 AM
https://i.imgur.com/A6Qbqogl.jpg

dneal
September 5th, 2021, 05:55 AM
Still proving my point, and still strengthening evidence of your disingenuousness.

Well done.

(you've already plagiarized this format, but it will be interesting to see how you try to adopt this variant)

Empty_of_Clouds
September 5th, 2021, 05:59 AM
https://i.imgur.com/VxirYzel.jpg

kazoolaw
September 5th, 2021, 10:00 AM
Sorry, didn't know things in NZ were this bad. Is it the same stuff used to poison the rugby team back in '95?

Empty_of_Clouds
September 7th, 2021, 11:50 PM
https://i.imgur.com/VK1aXzSl.jpg

TSherbs
September 23rd, 2021, 05:24 PM
Here's a conspiracy from one of mainstream media's greatest d-bags:

Business Insider: Tucker Carlson again pushes white supremacist conspiracy theory.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tucker-carlson-again-pushes-white-supremacist-conspiracy-theory-2021-9

He claims that Biden is trying to embrown the white race in America with the genes of darker immigrants.

That's so stupid, it's hard to believe he can keep his job. He is paid, it seems, to be stupid and racist.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
September 23rd, 2021, 05:42 PM
Oh my Lord, this one from the Kook (Michael Flynn)

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/michael-flynn-covid-vaccines-salad-dressing-pastor-1230601/

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Chuck Naill
September 23rd, 2021, 07:41 PM
He’s a military veteran right? Didn’t think they could do no wrong and were the smartest people in the US.

TSherbs
September 23rd, 2021, 07:56 PM
He’s a military veteran right? Didn’t think they could do no wrong and were the smartest people in the US.His profession (or former profession) doesn't matter. He's an absolute fool on this topic.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Chuck Naill
September 24th, 2021, 05:39 AM
He’s a military veteran right? Didn’t think they could do no wrong and were the smartest people in the US.His profession (or former profession) doesn't matter. He's an absolute fool on this topic.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

He has a history. We have many fools for Trump. I cannot think of one person associated with him for which they were not damaged goods afterwards. The religious people he has taken down has taken a unrecoverable toll. And the abuse he levied against others who would not go along like the unprovoked talk toward John McCain is something for which I will never forget as the first reason I knew he was not a good person and certainly incapable of leading.

TSherbs
September 25th, 2021, 04:39 AM
He’s a military veteran right? Didn’t think they could do no wrong and were the smartest people in the US.His profession (or former profession) doesn't matter. He's an absolute fool on this topic.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

He has a history.

Yes, as do we all.

My point is that one's profession has nothing to do with whether or not one is intelligent in their thinking or openness to conspiracy thinking.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
September 26th, 2021, 08:51 AM
Speaking of conspiracy theories:

New York Post : 'Loch Ness Monster' spotted again! This time on drone footage.

https://nypost.com/2021/09/25/loch-ness-monster-spotted-again-this-time-on-drone-footage/

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
October 1st, 2021, 04:56 PM
Sweet news.

Here's what should happen also to perpetrators of the Big Lie around the election:

NBC News: Alex Jones loses twice in Texas court for failing to back up Sandy Hook school massacre lies with proof.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alex-jones-loses-twice-texas-court-failing-back-sandy-hook-n1280598

The judge is brutal, and accurate.

Chuck Naill
October 2nd, 2021, 05:47 AM
I remember the day I stopped listening to Rush Limbaugh. It occured to me that all he did was to stir up trouble. He had no interested in working to make a difference. I suppose Jones is the same. He saw a way to make lot of money with "rhetorical hyperbole". These type, as we have seen, can cause much harm when in public office.

As MLK said, the arc of the moral universe is long, but bends toward justice. I am glad for the parents and families of Sandy Hook. I cannot imagine the pain they have suffered. For a person to cause them additional harm is unthinkable. I have no use for Jones et al.

TSherbs
October 2nd, 2021, 06:07 AM
I want Jones pillaried in public, but I won't get my wish.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Chuck Naill
October 2nd, 2021, 06:56 AM
In my heart I feel I have taken the moral path politically and scientifically (virus). Not everyone has the time to study Trump, Jones, Limbaugh, or what has become the Republicans. However, non of this is anything new.

Now days, when I think of Texas, I think of what was done to make it a slave state and not the false narritives about white hats, cowboys ,and independence. Does this mean I am "woke"? Is woke the new informed? I can't say. Everyone must decide for themselves to study, learn, and live accordingly.

dneal
October 2nd, 2021, 11:41 AM
In my heart I feel I have taken the moral path politically and scientifically (virus). Not everyone has the time to study Trump, Jones, Limbaugh, or what has become the Republicans. However, non of this is anything new.

Now days, when I think of Texas, I think of what was done to make it a slave state and not the false narritives about white hats, cowboys ,and independence. Does this mean I am "woke"? Is woke the new informed? I can't say. Everyone must decide for themselves to study, learn, and live accordingly.

Problem is Chuck, people do no end of feeling - and mistake it for thinking. If you ignore half the argument and only read what reinforces your feelings, im not sure id call that studying.

Chuck Naill
October 2nd, 2021, 12:13 PM
In my heart I feel I have taken the moral path politically and scientifically (virus). Not everyone has the time to study Trump, Jones, Limbaugh, or what has become the Republicans. However, non of this is anything new.

Now days, when I think of Texas, I think of what was done to make it a slave state and not the false narritives about white hats, cowboys ,and independence. Does this mean I am "woke"? Is woke the new informed? I can't say. Everyone must decide for themselves to study, learn, and live accordingly.

Problem is Chuck, people do no end of feeling - and mistake it for thinking. If you ignore half the argument and only read what reinforces your feelings, im not sure id call that studying.

I agree, but at this point, this side of COVID-19 and Trump, I don’t know how the story ends. I’m like the German in 1932, when the Jews were losing their civil rights.

dneal
October 2nd, 2021, 12:31 PM
I agree, but at this point, this side of COVID-19 and Trump, I don’t know how the story ends. I’m like the German in 1932, when the Jews were losing their civil rights.

There’s a hell of a zinger there I’m just going to leave alone… and just say thats why people worldwide are protesting government mandates. Because they value civil rights.

Chuck Naill
October 2nd, 2021, 12:40 PM
Civil rights and knowing history is important for any thinking person to self educate. Dictators occur.

Two ways dictators come to power is through polarized society and radicalization. This is now what the US is experiencing. I can only go on feelings and intuitive skills.

dneal
October 2nd, 2021, 08:48 PM
Civil rights and knowing history is important for any thinking person to self educate. Dictators occur.

Two ways dictators come to power is through polarized society and radicalization. This is now what the US is experiencing. I can only go on feelings and intuitive skills.

I agree, Chuck. I see two radicalized sides, and from your posts come to believe you are on one of them - and unaware of it.

Chuck Naill
October 3rd, 2021, 06:22 AM
Civil rights and knowing history is important for any thinking person to self educate. Dictators occur.

Two ways dictators come to power is through polarized society and radicalization. This is now what the US is experiencing. I can only go on feelings and intuitive skills.

I agree, Chuck. I see two radicalized sides, and from your posts come to believe you are on one of them - and unaware of it.

Perhaps I am. Choosing to not support Trump is a bit radical for any conservative. I am convinced based on my studies and experience that I am on the correct side of radicalization.

dneal
October 3rd, 2021, 07:32 AM
Do you think there is a radical left?

Some commentator or lecturer I heard the other day made a statement along the lines of: "We know there is a radical right, and where its limit begins (e.g.: neo-nazis, "freemen", etc...). Where is that line on the left?". I thought it was a good point, and have been pondering that.

dneal
October 3rd, 2021, 07:37 AM
As an aside, and I think I posted it somewhere else, but I have found "motive" to be a very effective litmus test for discerning bias (left or right). Does the speaker assign motive? If so, they're not worth listening to. 'Trump is literally Hitler' or 'Obama is a Communist' are the truncated versions in our ADHD, text-distracted, 30-second burritos ain't fast enough society that has devolved to a bunch of toddlers throwing tantrums about nothing.

The longer versions are much more eloquent, of course; and although I despise The Atlantic's lack of journalistic integrity, I do enjoy the writing and editing. There are magazines on the right I feel similarly about - although it has been sad to watch Peggy Noonan's writing decline... Everything between is the "talking heads". Cuomo, Hannity, O'Reilly, Maddow, Olberman, Lemon, Kelly, etc... They're all just degrees of intensity and verbosity in assigning motive to the other side.

It's rhetorical. It's persuasive. It's profitable.

It's a distraction.

Chuck Naill
October 3rd, 2021, 08:08 AM
Do you think there is a radical left?

Some commentator or lecturer I heard the other day made a statement along the lines of: "We know there is a radical right, and where its limit begins (e.g.: neo-nazis, "freemen", etc...). Where is that line on the left?". I thought it was a good point, and have been pondering that.

I would think so, but perhaps defining what it means to be radical is in order. For example, I could be considered radical if I am in the minority opinion. Is that how you define radicalization? If not, how?

Chuck Naill
October 3rd, 2021, 08:42 AM
As an aside, and I think I posted it somewhere else, but I have found "motive" to be a very effective litmus test for discerning bias (left or right). Does the speaker assign motive? If so, they're not worth listening to. 'Trump is literally Hitler' or 'Obama is a Communist' are the truncated versions in our ADHD, text-distracted, 30-second burritos ain't fast enough society that has devolved to a bunch of toddlers throwing tantrums about nothing.

The longer versions are much more eloquent, of course; and although I despise The Atlantic's lack of journalistic integrity, I do enjoy the writing and editing. There are magazines on the right I feel similarly about - although it has been sad to watch Peggy Noonan's writing decline... Everything between is the "talking heads". Cuomo, Hannity, O'Reilly, Maddow, Olberman, Lemon, Kelly, etc... They're all just degrees of intensity and verbosity in assigning motive to the other side.

It's rhetorical. It's persuasive. It's profitable.

It's a distraction.

The context for which I heard or read regarding assigning motive was in the setting of seeking an opportunity to compromise and/or reach agreement. If you and I were to meet in a room and I had preconceived opinions about why you were there other than you were there, it will limit me being able to see you as someone who truly wants to find a way to make it work.

When I read an op-ed where the writer referrs to Trump as a Hitler, I agree with you. In fact, I will try to discontinue doing so myself. That said, we have discriptive terms and definitions that can aid when we are trying to explain. Limiting our ability to discribe or compare can prevent effective communication. In my opinion and based on evidence, for me, I can objectivily make the case that Donald Trump was not a good leader nor does he have the skill set necessary to do so in a democratic government where there are three branches of government and term limits in place. We can disagree and I won't decide I know your motives for supporting Trump.

Lets take John McCain's vote against the "skinny repeal" of the ACA. What was the motive? What was Trump's response?

“While the amendment would have repealed some of ObamaCare’s most burdensome regulations, it offered no replacement to actually reform our health care system and deliver affordable, quality health care to our citizens,” McCain said. For me the motive was a concern for the American people who depend upon the ACA for healthcare. There was no indication he did it against Trump.

It is important to know how Trump handled McCain's action. What he said is important, but you don't have to imagine his motivations, just his words and actions.

dneal
October 3rd, 2021, 11:58 AM
Do you think there is a radical left?

Some commentator or lecturer I heard the other day made a statement along the lines of: "We know there is a radical right, and where its limit begins (e.g.: neo-nazis, "freemen", etc...). Where is that line on the left?". I thought it was a good point, and have been pondering that.

I would think so, but perhaps defining what it means to be radical is in order. For example, I could be considered radical if I am in the minority opinion. Is that how you define radicalization? If not, how?

Maybe it's like porn, and I know it when I see it... It's a good question, though. I think Antifa and whatnot are obvious. There's nothing "peaceful" about burning cities - and I think that's the criticism of "leftist" journalists and politicians the right has (and is correct about). It's nested somewhere in cancel-culture and safe-spaces, and I don't know where the line is.



As an aside, and I think I posted it somewhere else, but I have found "motive" to be a very effective litmus test for discerning bias (left or right). Does the speaker assign motive? If so, they're not worth listening to. 'Trump is literally Hitler' or 'Obama is a Communist' are the truncated versions in our ADHD, text-distracted, 30-second burritos ain't fast enough society that has devolved to a bunch of toddlers throwing tantrums about nothing.

The longer versions are much more eloquent, of course; and although I despise The Atlantic's lack of journalistic integrity, I do enjoy the writing and editing. There are magazines on the right I feel similarly about - although it has been sad to watch Peggy Noonan's writing decline... Everything between is the "talking heads". Cuomo, Hannity, O'Reilly, Maddow, Olberman, Lemon, Kelly, etc... They're all just degrees of intensity and verbosity in assigning motive to the other side.

It's rhetorical. It's persuasive. It's profitable.

It's a distraction.

The context for which I heard or read regarding assigning motive was in the setting of seeking an opportunity to compromise and/or reach agreement. If you and I were to meet in a room and I had preconceived opinions about why you were there other than you were there, it will limit me being able to see you as someone who truly wants to find a way to make it work.

When I read an op-ed where the writer referrs to Trump as a Hitler, I agree with you. In fact, I will try to discontinue doing so myself. That said, we have discriptive terms and definitions that can aid when we are trying to explain. Limiting our ability to discribe or compare can prevent effective communication. In my opinion and based on evidence, for me, I can objectivily make the case that Donald Trump was not a good leader nor does he have the skill set necessary to do so in a democratic government where there are three branches of government and term limits in place. We can disagree and I won't decide I know your motives for supporting Trump.

Lets take John McCain's vote against the "skinny repeal" of the ACA. What was the motive? What was Trump's response?

“While the amendment would have repealed some of ObamaCare’s most burdensome regulations, it offered no replacement to actually reform our health care system and deliver affordable, quality health care to our citizens,” McCain said. For me the motive was a concern for the American people who depend upon the ACA for healthcare. There was no indication he did it against Trump.

It is important to know how Trump handled McCain's action. What he said is important, but you don't have to imagine his motivations, just his words and actions.

To me the motive issue is simply one that allows people to leverage rhetoric as a substitute for reason. Pick a controversial topic, say border security. If it's just an indication of "racism", and everything from an opposing point of view is dismissed (because it's "racist), then there's not really any way to compromise. There are a lot of issues in border security. Actual security, economic impact, problems of assimilation, etc... But pros and cons can't be weighed when each side assigns motive to the other and refuses to discuss it. Most of the mass media has staked a position and assert motive as a given. Doesn't matter if it's a conservative or liberal writer. The other side wants to destroy the country or wants everyone to die... How prescient these writers are...

But each side happily consumes their preferred flavor of propaganda, which leads us to McCain. If I were a betting man and we had some way of actually knowing, I would wager McCain did it simply out of spite. I've never been a fan of his though. The argument he made does have merit, although that was lost in the noise. If we're just talking about whether or not Trump is petty and obnoxious (which may just be personality instead of motive), there's no disagreement here. I've consistently advocated discussion of his policies as opposed to his personality (or "bluster" I think I called it in another thread).

But that's exactly the point (and the point of that means/ends article). We get caught up in the "means". How or why we will do or did do a thing. What we should do, and how. No one looks at the ends, particularly if they don't make you feel as good as the means. That's how California managed to have to bail out their marijuana industry. They quibbled over the "how" and regulated it to the point of non-profitability. How in the hell do you lose money selling weed? Regulate the hell out of the process.

I'm reminded of the C.S. Lewis quote about moral busybodies:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

This is the problem for the left. Frankly, they're "know it all's", happy to dictate what's best for you, for your own good. Not too much salt to sodas, says the Mayor of New York, and then passes ordinances to ensure his torment of you, for your own good.

That's what people from Romania to Australia are protesting against. Moral busybodies leveraging the power of government that was entrusted to them by the people.

Chuck Naill
October 3rd, 2021, 12:24 PM
Do you think there is a radical left?

Some commentator or lecturer I heard the other day made a statement along the lines of: "We know there is a radical right, and where its limit begins (e.g.: neo-nazis, "freemen", etc...). Where is that line on the left?". I thought it was a good point, and have been pondering that.

I would think so, but perhaps defining what it means to be radical is in order. For example, I could be considered radical if I am in the minority opinion. Is that how you define radicalization? If not, how?

Maybe it's like porn, and I know it when I see it... It's a good question, though. I think Antifa and whatnot are obvious. There's nothing "peaceful" about burning cities - and I think that's the criticism of "leftist" journalists and politicians the right has (and is correct about). It's nested somewhere in cancel-culture and safe-spaces, and I don't know where the line is.



As an aside, and I think I posted it somewhere else, but I have found "motive" to be a very effective litmus test for discerning bias (left or right). Does the speaker assign motive? If so, they're not worth listening to. 'Trump is literally Hitler' or 'Obama is a Communist' are the truncated versions in our ADHD, text-distracted, 30-second burritos ain't fast enough society that has devolved to a bunch of toddlers throwing tantrums about nothing.

The longer versions are much more eloquent, of course; and although I despise The Atlantic's lack of journalistic integrity, I do enjoy the writing and editing. There are magazines on the right I feel similarly about - although it has been sad to watch Peggy Noonan's writing decline... Everything between is the "talking heads". Cuomo, Hannity, O'Reilly, Maddow, Olberman, Lemon, Kelly, etc... They're all just degrees of intensity and verbosity in assigning motive to the other side.

It's rhetorical. It's persuasive. It's profitable.

It's a distraction.

The context for which I heard or read regarding assigning motive was in the setting of seeking an opportunity to compromise and/or reach agreement. If you and I were to meet in a room and I had preconceived opinions about why you were there other than you were there, it will limit me being able to see you as someone who truly wants to find a way to make it work.

When I read an op-ed where the writer referrs to Trump as a Hitler, I agree with you. In fact, I will try to discontinue doing so myself. That said, we have discriptive terms and definitions that can aid when we are trying to explain. Limiting our ability to discribe or compare can prevent effective communication. In my opinion and based on evidence, for me, I can objectivily make the case that Donald Trump was not a good leader nor does he have the skill set necessary to do so in a democratic government where there are three branches of government and term limits in place. We can disagree and I won't decide I know your motives for supporting Trump.

Lets take John McCain's vote against the "skinny repeal" of the ACA. What was the motive? What was Trump's response?

“While the amendment would have repealed some of ObamaCare’s most burdensome regulations, it offered no replacement to actually reform our health care system and deliver affordable, quality health care to our citizens,” McCain said. For me the motive was a concern for the American people who depend upon the ACA for healthcare. There was no indication he did it against Trump.

It is important to know how Trump handled McCain's action. What he said is important, but you don't have to imagine his motivations, just his words and actions.

To me the motive issue is simply one that allows people to leverage rhetoric as a substitute for reason. Pick a controversial topic, say border security. If it's just an indication of "racism", and everything from an opposing point of view is dismissed (because it's "racist), then there's not really any way to compromise. There are a lot of issues in border security. Actual security, economic impact, problems of assimilation, etc... But pros and cons can't be weighed when each side assigns motive to the other and refuses to discuss it. Most of the mass media has staked a position and assert motive as a given. Doesn't matter if it's a conservative or liberal writer. The other side wants to destroy the country or wants everyone to die... How prescient these writers are...

But each side happily consumes their preferred flavor of propaganda, which leads us to McCain. If I were a betting man and we had some way of actually knowing, I would wager McCain did it simply out of spite. I've never been a fan of his though. The argument he made does have merit, although that was lost in the noise. If we're just talking about whether or not Trump is petty and obnoxious (which may just be personality instead of motive), there's no disagreement here. I've consistently advocated discussion of his policies as opposed to his personality (or "bluster" I think I called it in another thread).

But that's exactly the point (and the point of that means/ends article). We get caught up in the "means". How or why we will do or did do a thing. What we should do, and how. No one looks at the ends, particularly if they don't make you feel as good as the means. That's how California managed to have to bail out their marijuana industry. They quibbled over the "how" and regulated it to the point of non-profitability. How in the hell do you lose money selling weed? Regulate the hell out of the process.

I'm reminded of the C.S. Lewis quote about moral busybodies:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

This is the problem for the left. Frankly, they're "know it all's", happy to dictate what's best for you, for your own good. Not too much salt to sodas, says the Mayor of New York, and then passes ordinances to ensure his torment of you, for your own good.

That's what people from Romania to Australia are protesting against. Moral busybodies leveraging the power of government that was entrusted to them by the people.

I am not reading or hearing racism regarding border security. I’m hearing and reading people asking why can’t congress come up with a plan for citizenship. I’m not saying some people are not racists regarding citizenship.

So, you’re doing what you dislike regarding McCain. You are leaning toward “spite”. I’ve learned enough to know McCain didn’t operate that way. Given your military background, I’m surprised. A good person helps the SOB to where it’s almost a proverb.

I like CS, but have to disagree. That said, he fought in WW1 and knows more than me.

Yes, liberal elitism is a problem. It was Obama’s down fall. When he made that statement about people “clinging” he messed up, but it showed who he was and still is today. There are other black elitists that I notice. W.E.B Dubois had an edge, but I’m not faulting him.

I see things as having to go to the extreme (radical) before they can get to correct or what is universal for most if not all.

dneal
October 3rd, 2021, 02:49 PM
Border security has a different flavor now, but was "racist" for the entirety of Trump's campaign and Presidency.

I admit that I am human and have multiple facets. I can be honest and recognize an emotional bias, and I can set that aside and consider the merits of an argument. The reason/emotion problem is as old as humanity. Plato's "I see what is right and do it" refuted by Ovid's "Although I clearly see the right, my base nature prevents me from doing it". Mark Twain's "feeling and mistake it for thinking". There are a million of them, describing the dichotomy - which is the human condition. We're entitled to our opinions - even Alex Jones and Keith Olberman. It's a disservice to society that a media outlet would find either of them worthwhile. That they no longer separate fact from opinion, and give voice to the Hannities and Maddow (because there is profit in it) is the issue, and I would say bear the ethical responsibility if they're going to have legal/constitutional protections.

Anyway it's actually because I'm a military guy that I don't like McCain. His past is checkered, and I'll leave it at that for now.

I'm not a fan of Lewis, really. I think his novels pale to Tolkien's, and I disagree with a great deal of his views on Christianity. None of his service has any bearing on that, or whether or not there's a nugget of truth in his aphorism. That's always a weird thing to me, actually; that there's confusion on what gives credibility and what doesn't...

There's Conservative elitism as well. George Will is a great example, H.R. McMaster left quite a wake in TRADOC with letting people know how smart he is. He's a regular in the old guard think-tanks now.

I have concern for what the "correction" is. It remains to be seen which direction the pendulum will go, but the current administration is pushing it hard to the left. They promised to be centrist, I believe. This is how you give Trump a second term. Honestly, I don't want that either (although I am petty (a la: Ovid) enough to relish the schadenfreude).

Chuck Naill
October 3rd, 2021, 04:10 PM
No comment as I think you were thinking out loud.

There were other reasons to think Trump and his father were racist. It is a matter of history and not my personal bias. He's said and done plently for those that would look.

I've enjoyed George Will as well as David Brooks. Brooks recognizes what he calls the "Costal Elite". I've enjoyed Thomas Sowell writings. I cannot dismiss someone because they are well educated and think.

We can agree in not wanting a second term.

I am sure you cannot help let your military experiance have a sway. I have an ex Marine friend during Vietnam that is much more similar to my thinking. He doesn't go around saying semper fi and hoorah (or whatever) either.

dneal
October 3rd, 2021, 07:05 PM
Comment as you like.

There is plenty of evidence discounting Trump's supposed racism as well. What was he signing for HBCU's when all those black folks were gathered around in the Oval Office? What color was the grandmother he pardoned? Frankly, assertions of Trump's racism don't exist until he announced his candidacy. It's as stupid of an argument as that he's a misogynist. A woman ran his campaign. His two best press secretaries were women. Assertions of motive remain though, just like your "racist" assertions.

I don't dismiss people because they're well educated and think - although there is plenty of evidence to the contrary, in the case of your claim. I posted an informative video from two Ph.D. Evolutionary biologists that didn't raise a peep from you. They are the epitome of educated people who can think. Anyway, it's educated people who stop thinking - like George Will - that are disappointing and I ultimately dismiss. Their education is irrelevant when their reasoning faculties are compromised by their passions, the resulting vitriol (and assigning of motive) predictable. Someone who is well educated and stops thinking is an embarrassment usually, of their own making.

Chuck Naill
October 4th, 2021, 05:38 AM
You don't like McCain or George Will both of whom were not Trump supporters. How much did this influence your opinion of them? It is ironic that before Trump, both were well respected amoung conservatives. Can you think of any conservative thinker that did not support Trump that is respected.

I don't need to "peep" just because you posted and especially video. I loathe having to watch videos. Just tell me what you want to say. I used to know a man that spent his days watch Fox News and YouTube videos. All he knew how to do was post a video. It shows a degree of laziness. There are times it seems your writing style changes and I think you're copying and pasting without footnotes.

Ironically, you do show your emotions quite frequently. Odd that you dismiss others for doing the same. I mean, often we all do what we dislike for others to do.

Regarding George Will's opinion on the Republican Party.
""Whatever populism is conservatism isn't," Will said. "Populism believes that everything is clear, known to the public and should be directed into the policy and not be refined in the Constitution. That is the antithesis of conservatism."

"There is no place for conservatism in the Republican Party right now because we have an absolutely unique situation," Will said. "We a we have a Republican Party who are -- they won't say this -- are frightened of their voters, and because they're frightened of them, they don't much like them. Because they don't like them, they don't respect them. It's a very tension-ridden relationship between the Republican's elected officials and the Republican base. Until the Republican Party gets back to something like the principles that made it a vibrant force in the '80s and '90s, conservatives are, as I say, orphans."
https://www.alternet.org/2021/09/trumps-gop/

dneal
October 4th, 2021, 01:04 PM
Trump broke the media. Maybe he just made them so crazy they ended up exposing themselves for who they were. George Will, Peggy Noonan, and any of the other "old guard" GOP types get my sympathy. The polite and carefully structured society they took for granted was turned on its head. Prior to Trump, it was only the Democrats that were crazy.

Everyone always knew it was pandering to the poor for votes, but it went too far during the Obama era. It didn't help that he had zero experience doing really anything and he was surrounded by ideologues (like every other President is). Shovel-ready jobs and even the Affordable Care Act are worthy of debate. They weren't debated. They were forced through on a very partisan and close vote. There's the whole debacle of Robert's opinion regarding the ACA "tax", and the reasonable criticism that earned. We can argue various "pivotal" points in American politics, but the Obama admin was certainly one.

There was pushback for the second term, but they continued on as best they could as they lost their majority in the Senate. A lot of contentious agendas were pushed through with "a phone and a pen". The Tea Party rose in opposition (mainly to spending). It was hijacked by the professional political class, and investigated by Obama's IRS. AOC's and the rest of "The Squad" are particularly inciteful. The radical left (Occupy, BLM, Antifa, etc...) was literally encouraged by them. Nancy feared for her job because of the upstart Latina from the block. The old guard of the Democrat party is also in the position of George Will. Their polite and carefully structured society was turned on its head too.

Obama and Co pushed the pendulum so far, we ended up with Trump as the Newtonian answer. Everyone egged him on. Begged him to run for President. It was the best ratings (and profit) the media had seen in years. No one expected him to win, because all those "old-guard" types had stopped paying attention to anything outside their G street bubble. They misunderestimated the country. Their beloved pollsters were wrong. People were pissed off, said fuck it and pulled the lever for Trump. They weren't "Trumpists". They were people who said "fuck you" to the sort of people who happily labeled them a "basket of deplorables". Progressive Democrats gave us Trump, and will again if they keep up the shenanigans we've seen so far with the current admin.

You should listen to crazy Steve Bannon. He's not dumb, and he makes many critical points. He's an ideologue too, and like I noted earlier - Presidents get surrounded by ideologues. Steve Bannon (and KellyAnne Conway) put their fingers on the pulse of the nation and understood what the pollsters, George Wills, etc... didn't. And they got Trump elected pretty damned handily.

Just professional reading, I've read Jomini, Clausewitz, Sun Tzu, Marx and Mao; to scratch the surface. I can see the brilliance in Mao's theory of insurgency. I think it's more clever, practical and effective than anything Sun Tzu ever wrote. It's why our parading around the globe fighting insurgencies is a waste of time - but I digress...

I listen to Bannon just as I read any other strategist. Again, he's not dumb. Read his bio. He is dismissed as a (insert your preferred motive-label) at the peril of the dismisser. I know why they do it too, because his arguments make quite a bit of sense and they resonate. It's another variation of class warfare, and it pits the "common man" against the "Davos elite". Where critical race nonsense is ever subdividing people into smaller and opposing tribes, Bannon's philosophy unites everyone against what Eric Weinstein calls the "Kleptocracy". It's a conservative version of Marx, to an extent. It simply advocates smaller government instead of an all-providing entity. It recognizes human nature. Listen carefully to his idea of "Economic Nationalism", and listen objectively. Even if you disagree with him with every fiber of your being, it still pays to critically examine the argument.

It's a shame you don't listen to intelligent people converse, just because it's on YouTube. You do know you don't have to watch, right? You can just listen as you do something else. Maybe you should reexamine who is lazy? Intellectually speaking, of course. I see it as efficient. Your mileage may vary.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AtOw-xyMo8

dneal
October 4th, 2021, 01:14 PM
You don't like McCain or George Will both of whom were not Trump supporters. How much did this influence your opinion of them? It is ironic that before Trump, both were well respected amoung conservatives. Can you think of any conservative thinker that did not support Trump that is respected.

I don't need to "peep" just because you posted and especially video. I loathe having to watch videos. Just tell me what you want to say. I used to know a man that spent his days watch Fox News and YouTube videos. All he knew how to do was post a video. It shows a degree of laziness. There are times it seems your writing style changes and I think you're copying and pasting without footnotes.

Ironically, you do show your emotions quite frequently. Odd that you dismiss others for doing the same. I mean, often we all do what we dislike for others to do.

Regarding George Will's opinion on the Republican Party.
""Whatever populism is conservatism isn't," Will said. "Populism believes that everything is clear, known to the public and should be directed into the policy and not be refined in the Constitution. That is the antithesis of conservatism."

"There is no place for conservatism in the Republican Party right now because we have an absolutely unique situation," Will said. "We a we have a Republican Party who are -- they won't say this -- are frightened of their voters, and because they're frightened of them, they don't much like them. Because they don't like them, they don't respect them. It's a very tension-ridden relationship between the Republican's elected officials and the Republican base. Until the Republican Party gets back to something like the principles that made it a vibrant force in the '80s and '90s, conservatives are, as I say, orphans."
https://www.alternet.org/2021/09/trumps-gop/

I just want to point out that the majority of this post is just characterization and ascribing motive. Trying to make it personal. You pick the petty fights, Chuck. That's what makes you boring to me. There's so much more interesting stuff to argue about. I've already rolled around in the mud with you. I concede your tenacity. Like I said, it got boring.

I don't think you are capable of anything else. You would have to step out of your echo-chamber. Prove me wrong, if you like.

--edit--

Oh, the thing you don't get is the distinction of emotion and its affect on bias. It's ok to have emotions. It's ok to have bias. I can admit mine, and include the idea that it could weight a viewpoint. When you can't do that, when you see everything through the emotional lens of "TRUMPIST!!!" - as you characterized the Slovenian for espousing a reasonable view that you have been told is heretical - when you grab your torch and pitchfork of motive-labels; you might not be recognizing your emotion fueled bias. That's why you're in an echo chamber, and don't get the distinction. It's not allowed in your head.

TSherbs
October 4th, 2021, 03:41 PM
What a fucking a-hole troll.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Chuck Naill
October 4th, 2021, 04:57 PM
You don't like McCain or George Will both of whom were not Trump supporters. How much did this influence your opinion of them? It is ironic that before Trump, both were well respected amoung conservatives. Can you think of any conservative thinker that did not support Trump that is respected.

I don't need to "peep" just because you posted and especially video. I loathe having to watch videos. Just tell me what you want to say. I used to know a man that spent his days watch Fox News and YouTube videos. All he knew how to do was post a video. It shows a degree of laziness. There are times it seems your writing style changes and I think you're copying and pasting without footnotes.

Ironically, you do show your emotions quite frequently. Odd that you dismiss others for doing the same. I mean, often we all do what we dislike for others to do.

Regarding George Will's opinion on the Republican Party.
""Whatever populism is conservatism isn't," Will said. "Populism believes that everything is clear, known to the public and should be directed into the policy and not be refined in the Constitution. That is the antithesis of conservatism."

"There is no place for conservatism in the Republican Party right now because we have an absolutely unique situation," Will said. "We a we have a Republican Party who are -- they won't say this -- are frightened of their voters, and because they're frightened of them, they don't much like them. Because they don't like them, they don't respect them. It's a very tension-ridden relationship between the Republican's elected officials and the Republican base. Until the Republican Party gets back to something like the principles that made it a vibrant force in the '80s and '90s, conservatives are, as I say, orphans."
https://www.alternet.org/2021/09/trumps-gop/

I just want to point out that the majority of this post is just characterization and ascribing motive. Trying to make it personal. You pick the petty fights, Chuck. That's what makes you boring to me. There's so much more interesting stuff to argue about. I've already rolled around in the mud with you. I concede your tenacity. Like I said, it got boring.

I don't think you are capable of anything else. You would have to step out of your echo-chamber. Prove me wrong, if you like.

--edit--

Oh, the thing you don't get is the distinction of emotion and its affect on bias. It's ok to have emotions. It's ok to have bias. I can admit mine, and include the idea that it could weight a viewpoint. When you can't do that, when you see everything through the emotional lens of "TRUMPIST!!!" - as you characterized the Slovenian for espousing a reasonable view that you have been told is heretical - when you grab your torch and pitchfork of motive-labels; you might not be recognizing your emotion fueled bias. That's why you're in an echo chamber, and don't get the distinction. It's not allowed in your head.

I am not trying to prove you wrong. After your comments regarding race, it would take too much time, plus, your're not willing at this point to self educate. I mean, it makes no difference to you if everyone knows you're illiterate regarding some topics as long as you feel safe in your narrow, little room with a myopic view. The world is passing you by. It has passed Trump by. It passed other ideologes by as soon as it was safe to do so.

So, you set up a standard, out of context of course, for not discussing motive. It's your standard for which I have no interest in upholding. If you had the capacity of a freshman in HS to study Trump, you would have to agree with George Will and John McCain. However, you've completely sold out to Trump's philosophy to the point that if you were to publically disagree with him it would alter your soul.

Like I said, I am happy with my position. I can sleep at night knowing I never voted, and yes I had the balls to vote, for him.

BTW, we now know what kind a person Mike Pence was. He was actually going to try to overturn the election. We should be honoring Dan Quayle.

Chuck Naill
October 4th, 2021, 04:59 PM
What a fucking a-hole troll.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Him, me, or Bannon???LOL!!!:bolt:

TSherbs
October 4th, 2021, 05:31 PM
"him"

The douche bag who invited you into conversations, and then calls you "boring" because you question his objectivity and won't "argue."

Oh, Bannon, too, of course. But Bannon isn't posting his tripe here.





Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
October 4th, 2021, 05:39 PM
There were other reasons to think Trump and his father were racist. It is a matter of history and not my personal bias. He's said and done plently for those that would look.

Yes, I have pointed these out on other threads (going back long before the big orange racist baby ran for president.) The feds, for example, charged both men in the 1970s with racially discriminatory business practices. The central Park five affair was in late 80s-early 90s. The birther bullshit came in 2008, but simply continued the pattern of racism and race-baiting

Whatever.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
October 4th, 2021, 05:43 PM
. We should be honoring Dan Quayle.

I follow your point, but ..... NO.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

dneal
October 4th, 2021, 07:17 PM
"him"

The douche bag who invited you into conversations, and then calls you "boring" because you question his objectivity and won't "argue."

Oh, Bannon, too, of course. But Bannon isn't posting his tripe here.





Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

On the contrary, i said I found the obnoxious asshole game boring. You guys win. I give up. Chuck at least seems willing to move on. I’m not positive, and am basing my opinion on his posts to others, in other threads as well.

You seem to be content with obnoxious asshole. I don’t really care.

Chuck Naill
October 5th, 2021, 06:11 AM
No one is trying to win @dneal. You keep communicating you think it is a game. It is not for me. I do not for one minute think you can I will agree about some topics, but when you make a comment as you did about race in the US, it tells me you are leaning on past perceptions and not self educating to determine if your opinions are evidenced based. I am assming you are white. Instead of considering what I said, you immediately returned to your military experienced to say you slept and worked beside black and brown skin people. The military is not real life where you make decisions on your own. In the real world you reach out to people different from you to learn and know because it was something you think is important.

It has been the same with Trump and the pandemic, always resorting to defending him even if it means defaming people like George Will or worse John McCain. You seem to have to beat up and destroy. Maybe a game is how you approach life. It isn't for me and perhaps not @Tsherbs.

All this said, I do think you actually want to be here because you keep coming back. Perhaps we can find a way to communicate. And, I am not saying I communicate well. I am willing to change.

dneal
October 5th, 2021, 06:36 AM
Chuck, when your posts consist of "I read some stuff, you're wrong and need to educate yourself because I don't have time"; there's not a lot to discuss after that. Look at your text:


After your comments regarding race, it would take too much time, plus, your're not willing at this point to self educate. I mean, it makes no difference to you if everyone knows you're illiterate regarding some topics as long as you feel safe in your narrow, little room with a myopic view. The world is passing you by. It has passed Trump by. It passed other ideologes by as soon as it was safe to do so.

This is not the first time you've said something like this. So why do you bother? Are you incapable of simply describing your thesis and supporting points? because that's the case here. You simply assert woke dogma, dust your hands off and consider it job done.


So, you set up a standard, out of context of course, for not discussing motive. It's your standard for which I have no interest in upholding. If you had the capacity of a freshman in HS to study Trump, you would have to agree with George Will and John McCain. However, you've completely sold out to Trump's philosophy to the point that if you were to publically disagree with him it would alter your soul.

Not the case. I introduced the motive discussion, and the context. I cannot take it out of a context that didn't exist until I established it. You keep attempting to move the goal posts to score a point. It's obvious and pathetic, much like how you co-opt my criticisms of you. I honestly believe you are incapable of rational discussion that does not comport with your dogma. Who saw the troll bait thread and rushed to it, when another more thoughtful topic was available?

You, TSherbs, EoC and others here love to present an appearance of smug moral superiority - which gets exposed as a facade as soon as I trigger you. The base vitriol gushes forth.

So what did you think of Bannon's description of "Economic Nationalism"?

--edit--

RE: George Will, etc...

The problem is that you seem to view things as simple dichotomies. Motive is good or bad. Emotion is good or bad. That's lazy thinking. We all have motive and emotion. It influences/biases us. It carries weight. "The final appeal is to intuition", as Whitehead said. We can attempt to be cognizant of them and not let them overrule our reason.

That's what George Will and a whole lot of others have done. They've let their hatred for Trump overrule their reason. They employ their reason to justify their emotion, and write thoroughly about it every week. They assign motive and use their intellect to reinforce a motive argument. They, like you, ignore the policy itself. Motive is sufficient, emotionally satisfying, and rationally acceptable. It's still lazy thinking.

I can think that about George Will, or John McCain. I can find it reasonable, based on empirical observation of their public life over decades, to see a change in behavior and assign a probable motive. I'm also perfectly comfortable knowing I might be mistaken. I don't evaluate policy based on my personal opinion. Is that so hard for you to understand? Really it's just simple objectivity... so I suppose it's impossible for you to understand right now - because you're in an echo chamber.

That's what makes you and George Will boring. Blah, blah, blah, Trumpists are racist Nazi's, blah blah blah... It's everybody though. Hannity, Maddow, and all the others I've listed before as you make no attempt to consider and respond. You just spin your rolodex of propaganda and blurt out the canned response - and don't even know you're doing it. It's why we're back to this.

What did you think about Bannon's notion of "Economic Nationalism"? That's an idea. Something that can be pondered and discussed. There is no right or wrong, just pros and cons. Or we just dismiss it as racist or whatever vileness TSherbs can come up with next (and seriously dude, if the internet or something else is making you this angry and uncomposed, perhaps you should take a break)... That's exactly why I picked Bannon. Because he is triggering to some, for god knows what reason. He's just a person. He has a point of view. It is amazing that simply the thought of an individual human with a different point of view, would prompt the responses we have seen so far.

Isn't discussing an idea much more interesting than who the bigger doo-doo head is?

Chuck Naill
October 5th, 2021, 08:28 AM
I could have wasted my time to have provided a list of the books I read. I did however tell you the books are a part of the US library system. I can’t be your source. It’s a road you must decide on your own. Learning requires a certain amount of rigor on the learners part.

Please don’t feel you need to defend yourself.

Reading your posts reminds me of a former friend who watches Fox News and YouTube anti vaccine videos 24/7. You both say the same things.

People change gradually. Give yourself time, but resist confirmation bias. It just prolongs the process.

Or, stay the same as you are now as it won’t effect me one way or another.

dneal
October 5th, 2021, 10:19 AM
I could have wasted my time to have provided a list of the books I read. I did however tell you the books are a part of the US library system. I can’t be your source. It’s a road you must decide on your own. Learning requires a certain amount of rigor on the learners part.

Please don’t feel you need to defend yourself.

Reading your posts reminds me of a former friend who watches Fox News and YouTube anti vaccine videos 24/7. You both say the same things.

People change gradually. Give yourself time, but resist confirmation bias. It just prolongs the process.

Or, stay the same as you are now as it won’t effect me one way or another.

Chuck "the books I need to read are part of the US library system" is nonsensical. Ok. What you need to read is part of the Library of Congress. I win.

As for the rest, you still avoid the topic. You avoid substance. Maybe that's how much was contained in your books? You just assign motive. Boring.

Are you capable of substance?

Chuck Naill
October 5th, 2021, 10:45 AM
So, on my journey, I went to the library. I would hear of a book, then check it out. It was a years long process. I was not enrolled in a class. This is the essential self education. Then you decide which you think made a contribution.

If I were making suggestions, I would start with three or so biological books regarding MLK. I would read Haley’s book on Malcome Little.
Definitely read Souls of Black Folk.

If you are asking if I will feed you baby food, as I said before, neither the time or inclination. Man up, boy!!

TSherbs
October 5th, 2021, 01:09 PM
There were other reasons to think Trump and his father were racist. It is a matter of history and not my personal bias. He's said and done plently for those that would look.

Yes, I have pointed these out on other threads (going back long before the big orange racist baby ran for president.) The feds, for example, charged both men in the 1970s with racially discriminatory business practices. The central Park five affair was in late 80s-early 90s. The birther bullshit came in 2008, but simply continued the pattern of racism and race-baiting

Whatever.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk



dneal, this was in response to your erroneous claim that accusations of Trump's racism came after he ran for president. You did not specify which time he ran for president, but you are wrong no matter which presidential contest Trump ran in: the accusations of racism and racist practice go back long before he ran for president.

Why should Chuck or anyone else engage with you when you are wrong, you make claims regardless of the truth (and couch them in terms that make you *sound* like you know what you are talking about), and then you denigrate a poster for actually responding to your request for engagement?

You even made the racist argument of noting that Trump's alleged racism is controverted by the fact that he held an Oval Office ceremony honoring legislation for HBCUs. You do not even understand that that kind of "evidence" does nothing to controvert the charge that he has been racist *at other times.* Misogynists can be married to women and have daughters and still practice misogyny.

That Jefferson fathered children via Sally Hemmings (a slave) does not mean that Jefferson was not an evil, racist slave holder. It most likely means that he was a racist slave holder and a rapist, actually.

Criminals cannot escape the charge of criminality simply because they spend some of their days committing no crimes.

And, by the way, it is not an *anger* management issue to call someone a dick. I just can't find more fitting language for the behavior that you repeat on these back threads. You strike me as addicted to conflict and debate, since you denigrate any conversations that do not fit this style. You call me angry because I use vulgar language, but in that you are mistaken: I just don't think that your behavior back here deserves better. You troll for conflict under the guise of "discussion," but then you denigrate the one or two persons who have the gumption to actually answer your posts with your jaw sticking out in challenge and your faux-humility about your own self-education.

Chuck Naill
October 5th, 2021, 03:00 PM
I would like for @dneal to comment on Jefferson’s rape of Sally Hemings. Some see this as part of the woke movement, and the truth behind the Alamo and Texas independence as the same. So, if you haven’t considered either, how do you decide what’s true? Read a book, perhaps. Or, stay believing she liked having sex with the President and having seven children. Or, thinking Texas is about cowboys.

dneal
October 5th, 2021, 04:28 PM
I would like for @dneal to comment on Jefferson’s rape of Sally Hemings. Some see this as part of the woke movement, and the truth behind the Alamo and Texas independence as the same. So, if you haven’t considered either, how do you decide what’s true? Read a book, perhaps. Or, stay believing she liked having sex with the President and having seven children. Or, thinking Texas is about cowboys.

Why? You haven’t addressed anything specifically so far, and now you want to introduce Jefferson and Sally Hemmings?

dneal
October 5th, 2021, 04:42 PM
There were other reasons to think Trump and his father were racist. It is a matter of history and not my personal bias. He's said and done plently for those that would look.

Yes, I have pointed these out on other threads (going back long before the big orange racist baby ran for president.) The feds, for example, charged both men in the 1970s with racially discriminatory business practices. The central Park five affair was in late 80s-early 90s. The birther bullshit came in 2008, but simply continued the pattern of racism and race-baiting

Whatever.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk



dneal, this was in response to your erroneous claim that accusations of Trump's racism came after he ran for president. You did not specify which time he ran for president, but you are wrong no matter which presidential contest Trump ran in: the accusations of racism and racist practice go back long before he ran for president.

Why should Chuck or anyone else engage with you when you are wrong, you make claims regardless of the truth (and couch them in terms that make you *sound* like you know what you are talking about), and then you denigrate a poster for actually responding to your request for engagement?

You even made the racist argument of noting that Trump's alleged racism is controverted by the fact that he held an Oval Office ceremony honoring legislation for HBCUs. You do not even understand that that kind of "evidence" does nothing to controvert the charge that he has been racist *at other times.* Misogynists can be married to women and have daughters and still practice misogyny.

That Jefferson fathered children via Sally Hemmings (a slave) does not mean that Jefferson was not an evil, racist slave holder. It most likely means that he was a racist slave holder and a rapist, actually.

Criminals cannot escape the charge of criminality simply because they spend some of their days committing no crimes.

And, by the way, it is not an *anger* management issue to call someone a dick. I just can't find more fitting language for the behavior that you repeat on these back threads. You strike me as addicted to conflict and debate, since you denigrate any conversations that do not fit this style. You call me angry because I use vulgar language, but in that you are mistaken: I just don't think that your behavior back here deserves better. You troll for conflict under the guise of "discussion," but then you denigrate the one or two persons who have the gumption to actually answer your posts with your jaw sticking out in challenge and your faux-humility about your own self-education.

You're hilarious. Sorry buddy, we've seen your nature. No need to don the NPR tone. Just look at the preceding page. Bannon posted? Your response is "what an a-hole troll", "the douchebag", etc... The way you treated adhoc in the virus thread. You couldn't even resist the "Trump was right" / troll-bait - and we both know you knew what that thread was.

So you first. What do you think of Bannon's "Economic Nationalism" idea. Pros? Cons? Want a conversation or not?

TSherbs
October 5th, 2021, 07:02 PM
I commented directly on your claim that Trump did not face accusations of racism until he ran for president. You are exactly wrong: the accusations predate his candidacy, in the case of the court charges, by 2+ decades.

Now, you say nothing when I present you with facts that catch you in either falsehood or ignorance.

You are a poseur. Chuck has some common sense and sniffed out your hypocrisy and bullshit.

I don't give a shit about Bannon and will never comment on him, certainly not for a fake like you.

TSherbs
October 5th, 2021, 07:08 PM
And Chuck is asking you about Texas and Hemings because he sniffs a racist lurking in you, afraid to come out and reveal itself but quietly working the levers of your comments about blacks and racism and wokism, etc. I smell it too.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

dneal
October 5th, 2021, 07:38 PM
Two sequential posts within 6 minutes of each other. I'm a poseur, blah blah blah. Characterization and dismissal - which is exactly what you do every time you are presented with something that hasn't been approved by your Ministry of Truth.

Glass houses and all that...

Chuck Naill
October 5th, 2021, 07:54 PM
Maybe he has never heard of Hemings or why Texas wanted independence.

TSherbs
October 5th, 2021, 07:57 PM
I sure am characterizing you. I just want to be sure that someone is making it plain.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
October 5th, 2021, 07:58 PM
Maybe he has never heard of Hemings or why Texas wanted independence.No, he has. He's just kind of pathologically duplicitous in conversation.

dneal
October 5th, 2021, 09:14 PM
I sure am characterizing you. I just want to be sure that someone is making it plain.



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Well, I hope it at least soothes some of your anger.

dneal
October 5th, 2021, 09:15 PM
Maybe he has never heard of Hemings or why Texas wanted independence.No, he has. He's just kind of pathologically duplicitous in conversation.

Posterity, and all that. Ill take projection for $600, Alex.

Chuck Naill
October 6th, 2021, 07:00 AM
Part of the Woke Movement is to bring to the surface information that has been systematically left out of the history books and public conversations. For example, an 78 year old RN friend had never heard of Juneteeth. I never understood what Texas independance was about and why it fought with Mexico until I read the books. Even with Sally Hemings, no one talked about it until the past several years. The city grew up in drained the pools in the parks the day after Juneteenth. Little girls didn't have access to bathrooms during Jim Crow. My friend experienced this in Montgomery, Alabama. I have never heard you acknowledge any of this as true. You seem to want to pretend it never did exist, or for some still does exist.

There are families that "just don't talk about" matters that are too embarrasing or hurtful. Maybe is was sexual abuse or an affair. When I listen to some of Trump's supporters, any mention of his several failures, lies, and improprieties is met with anger and vigorus defense. Many times people will say they voted for him, but don't like him. In a way it is a self defense. I don't particularily care for Joe Biden, but his nonsense and actiing stupid is not anything I care to defend. I voted against rather than for.

Now we moved to vaccines. It is a matter of choice of course, but the same people choosing not to get a vaccine are the very same people choosing not to distance or wear a mask. It matters not that they could carry and give it to another. So, if I responded to @adhoc is a way you found objectionable, it may have been over this sort of thing. I cannot remember, honestly. That thread began in March when the vaccines were just starting to roll out and be available. I honestly was surprised so many refused and later died.

There are times when information is posted that just a bit more time evaluating would have moderated the point the poster was trying to make. Like I said, I don't watch videos, but I get that you are a video watcher. So I understand that reading books for self studying may not be your thing, but I don't see videos as a reasonable substitute.

Anyway, I am not trying to win or win you over to think as I do, just that a bit of self study might give you pause if you knew more. For example, there is much flawed about the person Martin Luther King, Jr. Nothing this does not deminish the good that he did and the price he paid for doing it. If a white person just wants to focus on the flaws in order to caste the Civil RIghts movement as illegitamate, they do themselves and their friend, family, and neighbors a disservice. Now, you might come back and say, look at all the good Trump as done. We can have that conversation.

TSherbs
October 6th, 2021, 04:35 PM
Part of the Woke Movement is to bring to the surface information that has been systematically left out of the history books and public conversations.

Very much true. Or if not "left out," then at least "devalued and under-examined." Including our own biases, prejudices, and patterns of behavior and those which our culture and institutions promote even without our overt consent or effort. Racism can be "passive" and be just as pernicious, like an invisible toxin in the air (cf radon).





Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
November 2nd, 2021, 02:40 PM
This "theory" hit my feed today...
The Dallas Morning News: Hundreds of QAnon supporters gather at Dealey Plaza in Dallas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

dneal
November 6th, 2021, 06:05 PM
Back on topic, which is Biden (for those whose attention span is shorter than his...).

U.S. Covid-19 Deaths for 2021 Surpass Toll From 2020 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2021/10/06/us-covid-19-deaths-for-2021-surpass-toll-from-2020/?sh=76947f806cc2)

Article was from precisely one month ago. How many more deaths will he cause in the rest of NOV and DEC?

C'mon, man, I thought he had a plan!

724Seney
November 6th, 2021, 07:00 PM
64716

dneal
November 6th, 2021, 07:12 PM
64717

Chuck Naill
November 7th, 2021, 05:56 AM
This "theory" hit my feed today...
The Dallas Morning News: Hundreds of QAnon supporters gather at Dealey Plaza in Dallas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

If they truly believed it, how sad.

I wanted to comment on the "woke movement". Since you have a Times subscription, David Brooks has an interesting read this weekend. And, there was an interesting exchange on PBS Newhour Friday eveing between Caphart and whoever was filling in for Brooks. Youtube has it if interested.

Chuck Naill
November 7th, 2021, 06:00 AM
64716

Would it be better to have no idea or a wrong idea with power?

TSherbs
November 7th, 2021, 06:13 AM
This "theory" hit my feed today...
The Dallas Morning News: Hundreds of QAnon supporters gather at Dealey Plaza in Dallas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

If they truly believed it, how sad.

I wanted to comment on the "woke movement". Since you have a Times subscription, David Brooks has an interesting read this weekend. And, there was an interesting exchange on PBS Newhour Friday eveing between Caphart and whoever was filling in for Brooks. Youtube has it if interested.I don't have a NYT subscription, but I'll check out the News Hour piece (I often watch it, but Friday I was under the weather). Without Brooks, though, it usually isn't as good.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Chuck Naill
November 7th, 2021, 06:56 AM
This "theory" hit my feed today...
The Dallas Morning News: Hundreds of QAnon supporters gather at Dealey Plaza in Dallas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

If they truly believed it, how sad.

I wanted to comment on the "woke movement". Since you have a Times subscription, David Brooks has an interesting read this weekend. And, there was an interesting exchange on PBS Newhour Friday eveing between Caphart and whoever was filling in for Brooks. Youtube has it if interested.I don't have a NYT subscription, but I'll check out the News Hour piece (I often watch it, but Friday I was under the weather). Without Brooks, though, it usually isn't as good.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Get well soon.

I do agree that Brooks absence is always missed. The title of his op-ed is nthat Democrats need to confront their priviledge. M. Dowd's title is On Wokeness and Elections. I'll see if I can send in a PM.

TSherbs
November 7th, 2021, 06:58 AM
This "theory" hit my feed today...
The Dallas Morning News: Hundreds of QAnon supporters gather at Dealey Plaza in Dallas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

If they truly believed it, how sad.

I wanted to comment on the "woke movement". Since you have a Times subscription, David Brooks has an interesting read this weekend. And, there was an interesting exchange on PBS Newhour Friday eveing between Caphart and whoever was filling in for Brooks. Youtube has it if interested.I don't have a NYT subscription, but I'll check out the News Hour piece (I often watch it, but Friday I was under the weather). Without Brooks, though, it usually isn't as good.

Sent from my moto g power using TapatalkInteresting exchange. The dude chilling in for Brooks sure identified with being white (and Capehart does with being black). I don't much like talk of what "America" wants. We are not a monolith, and we shouldn't be reduced to positions that simply poll over 50%. America is a diverse nation of 1000s of different "wants."

The discussion of Colin Powell was trite.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

TSherbs
November 7th, 2021, 07:10 AM
This "theory" hit my feed today...
The Dallas Morning News: Hundreds of QAnon supporters gather at Dealey Plaza in Dallas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

If they truly believed it, how sad.

I wanted to comment on the "woke movement". Since you have a Times subscription, David Brooks has an interesting read this weekend. And, there was an interesting exchange on PBS Newhour Friday eveing between Caphart and whoever was filling in for Brooks. Youtube has it if interested.I don't have a NYT subscription, but I'll check out the News Hour piece (I often watch it, but Friday I was under the weather). Without Brooks, though, it usually isn't as good.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Get well soon.

I do agree that Brooks absence is always missed. The title of his op-ed is nthat Democrats need to confront their priviledge. M. Dowd's title is On Wokeness and Elections. I'll see if I can send in a PM.Everyone making over 70k per year and/or worth more than 300k in assets needs to confront their privilege (in both parties)! IMO, we have a lot of spoiled, whining babies in this country about money, taxes, and "freedom," when they are among the most privileged people in the history of humanity on this planet. Myself included (and I come from dirt poor chicken farmers and bricklayers).



Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

dneal
November 7th, 2021, 07:23 AM
We have a case of no idea with power.

64726

Chuck Naill
November 7th, 2021, 07:27 AM
PM sent.

724Seney
November 7th, 2021, 07:36 AM
64716

Would it be better to have no idea or a wrong idea with power?

Great point Chuck.
Yes, absolutely! Biden checks both of your boxes.
Thanks for the help, I was worried that as usual you were going to try and drag Trump into your response.

Chuck Naill
November 7th, 2021, 07:51 AM
64716

Would it be better to have no idea or a wrong idea with power?

Great point Chuck.
Yes, absolutely! Biden checks both of your boxes.
Thanks for the help, I was worried that as usual you were going to try and drag Trump into your response.

I get it 724. ;) Even the Republicans are tired of being drug by Trump.

dneal
November 9th, 2021, 07:07 PM
64743

TSherbs
November 15th, 2021, 04:35 PM
Another conspiracy theorist found liable for damages:

Reuters: Connecticut judge finds Jones liable in lawsuit over school shooting denial.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/conspiracy-theorist-jones-found-guilty-by-default-us-school-shooting-defamation-2021-11-15/


Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk