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DayOnFire
December 31st, 2020, 02:09 PM
Greetings, Fellow FP Geeks!

I am new to this site, having only recently discovered it. I have been on The Fountain Pen Network for many years.

I need your help!

I sent my FP to a known repairperson/shop to have a new filling mechanism put in. This was around December 2019. The pen was received. The repairperson then said they were having trouble getting parts, then trouble getting the front section off (valid, given previous experience with said section). Back in August, I said I would just happily take the pen back, as I was getting worried it was out of my possession for so long. You know how that is.

After August of this year (I believe) the repair person stopped responding to any communication and still has my pen! I have read one blog post online of another FP user who had a similar GWP (Ghosting With Pen) experience with this person.

I know the name of the company and now the person, but am not sure how to go about just getting my pen back!

The repairperson mentioned falling on financial hard times, so I said he could just keep what I had paid for the restoration (to help in an act of charity), but to just mail me back my pen.

I would love some advice on what I could do to get my pen back. I have the full text exchange with this person to support my view of this situation.

Thank you in advance for any direction this community could provide.

~ DayOnFire (Michael)

Chrissy
December 31st, 2020, 02:33 PM
To "provide direction" a couple of the first things members of the community might need to know is whereabouts in the world you are from and whether your repair person is in the same part of the world as you are.

As an example: if you happened to be within the UK I would advise that you send your repair person a letter by Royal Mail Special Delivery guaranteed mail giving him 14 days to return your pen back to you or you would start a claim against him for it in the small claims court.

The recommended advice in the US could be different.

TSherbs
December 31st, 2020, 02:42 PM
Have you asked on FPN, too? And what is the pen worth? Proceedings can cost money.

silverlifter
December 31st, 2020, 03:26 PM
I would love some advice on what I could do to get my pen back. I have the full text exchange with this person to support my view of this situation.

The name of the repairer would be helpful. There are people here that may have alternate methods of contacting them and mediating a resolution.

elaineb
January 1st, 2021, 06:05 AM
I sadly had a similar experience with a repairer about 15 years ago, and never recovered my beautiful Waterman Lady Patrician. The guy had been highly respected, but things went awry in his life. His wife had the sad job of intervening and trying to set things right for the dozens of customers who’d sent him pens. My pen was never recovered. The situation was too sad for me to think about legal proceedings.

DayOnFire
January 1st, 2021, 01:50 PM
Thank you for the quick responses!


I am in Minnesota, USA.

The name of the repairer is Write On Time West, on the West Coast. The name of the person I messaged back and forth with is Ray.

DayOnFire
January 1st, 2021, 01:53 PM
Last I checked FPN was still having server issues or some such? Maybe I should try again.

silverlifter
January 1st, 2021, 02:11 PM
The name of the repairer is Write On Time West, on the West Coast. The name of the person I messaged back and forth with is Ray.

Ray C? I seem to recall a thread or threads about them here over the last year or so. Your experience with them is, sadly, not unique.

DayOnFire
January 1st, 2021, 02:14 PM
The name of the repairer is Write On Time West, on the West Coast. The name of the person I messaged back and forth with is Ray.

Ray C? I seem to recall a thread or threads about them here over the last year or so. Your experience with them is, sadly, not unique.


From what I have seen elsewhere, yes, Ray C. I have no wish to slander him. I only know that he has my pen and is not responding to any of my messages, on FB or Instagram. I just want my pen back.

Chuck Naill
January 1st, 2021, 02:29 PM
So, my question is why was this person used? I ofetn see a person named Ron mentkoned and he/she posts here. Why were this person not used???

Jon Szanto
January 1st, 2021, 03:36 PM
So, my question is why was this person used? I ofetn see a person named Ron mentkoned and he/she posts here. Why were this person not used???

There are many reasons people choose different repair people. Ron Zorn is at the top of the list, certainly in the US, in terms of reputation, length of years and experience in the trade, excellent results and communication. Ron also has, certainly at times, a long waiting queue. I would have no hesitation sending work to Ron, and in fact have a pen waiting to send to him for some delicate repairs only he would likely be able to do. This does not mean that I would suggest everyone send a basic sac replacement to him, as there are many other people who could do that repair, and likely do it in less time.

That is just one example. There are many, many reasons to work with different repair people, including one that I sometimes use for my decisions: simply wanting to send a pen to someone because I like them. I could easily send to Person A, but I haven't had Person B work on a pen in a while, so there I go.

Many reasons.

Farmboy
January 1st, 2021, 04:12 PM
It seems that Write On Time - West (https://www.facebook.com/writeontimewestfountainpenrestoration/) is part of Write On Time (https://www.facebook.com/Write-on-Time-Vintage-Pens-Restoration-and-Service-208871225809681/). You might try contacting the parent (home) office.

I don't have FaceBook and apologize in advance for proving these links but they were the only contact info Google could find. I recalled hearing of Write On Time previously in reference to an unbelievable celluloid repair. Interesting that neither Chapter has a dedicated website.

Jon Szanto
January 1st, 2021, 04:20 PM
I don't have FaceBook...

I do and I used to see him posting often, esp in fp circles. I just took a look and his last public post was June 24 of last year. Wishing the OP best of luck in this.

Ron Z
January 1st, 2021, 04:45 PM
...it's the basic repairs that allow us to do the more difficult ones. Tough repairs sometimes take a lot of time, which means a lot of time before we get paid. The simpler ones help to bring balance to your work, and bank account.

Jon Szanto
January 1st, 2021, 06:14 PM
...it's the basic repairs that allow us to do the more difficult ones. Tough repairs sometimes take a lot of time, which means a lot of time before we get paid. The simpler ones help to bring balance to your work, and bank account.

A good point for someone like me to remember. It's easy for a lay person to think "god, they must hate having to spend time putting a sac in this Estie". I'll likely include one or two other things besides that 1st gen Tuckaway for you to look at. I do want to make it worth your while!

724Seney
January 1st, 2021, 07:28 PM
This comment is NOT meant to reference Mr. Zorn who does, indeed, make many valuable posts here. What follows is a generic comment and is meant to convey a more general concept than a specifically directed, personal reference. Anybody who connects what I am about to say with Mr. Zorn does so knowing it is absolutely not my intent.

Ok...........

There is an old saying "Those who can do, do. Those who can't do teach." Over the course of my lifetime I have experienced this many times...often the best craftsmen, providers and other professionals etc. are not the ones who publically promote themselves via infomercials, "how-to" posts, etc. The true masters are the ones who just quietly go along "doing their thing" relying on word of mouth from satisfied customers, clients and patients. Many of them never post anything, anywhere. They're too busy!!

There are many superb nibmeisters and pen repair persons. And, among them there is often areas of expertise and specialization. They are also some real bumblers. Some of whom actually have ill deserved reputations for being good at what they do.

If you have a pen which needs work, I recommend you find someone here or on FPN who posts a lot about that type of pen. Not a repair person but a collector. Then reach out to them (ideally, a couple of them) via private message and ask them for a recommendation.

Jon Szanto
January 1st, 2021, 07:48 PM
You lost all credibility with the “those who can’t, teach” rubbish. Unless you’d like to rephrase that, of course.

724Seney
January 1st, 2021, 08:00 PM
You lost all credibility with the “those who can’t, teach” rubbish. Unless you’d like to rephrase that, of course.

It's a widely employed quote, not one I made up.

And, it just so happens it is consistent with much of what I have experienced in my life. If you have not experienced something similar it does not mean that I have not...........

If the result is I have now lost all credibility, so be it. It puts me in some good company.

Jon Szanto
January 1st, 2021, 08:30 PM
It's a widely employed quote, not one I made up.

Uh, yeah, I'm well aware of this common quote, usually phrased a bit differently.


And, it just so happens it is consistent with much of what I have experienced in my life. If you have not experienced something similar it does not mean that I have not...........

That's fine. It means you haven't come across many - or any - of the remarkable teachers in this world. Using that phrase seeks to elevate one class of people while denigrating others, and yet there are countless millions of people who owe their success in life due to the guidance, skill and wisdom of one or more teachers.


If the result is I have now lost all credibility, so be it. It puts me in some good company.

Enjoy yourself and your company. BTW, who would you recommend for doing work on Sheaffer vac-fill pens?

Jon Szanto
January 1st, 2021, 08:36 PM
To DayOnFire / Michael - check your PMs.

724Seney
January 1st, 2021, 09:06 PM
Uh, yeah, I'm well aware of this common quote, usually phrased a bit differently.


And, it just so happens it is consistent with much of what I have experienced in my life. If you have not experienced something similar it does not mean that I have not...........

That's fine. It means you haven't come across many - or any - of the remarkable teachers in this world. Using that phrase seeks to elevate one class of people while denigrating others, and yet there are countless millions of people who owe their success in life due to the guidance, skill and wisdom of one or more teachers.


If the result is I have now lost all credibility, so be it. It puts me in some good company.

Enjoy yourself and your company. BTW, who would you recommend for doing work on Sheaffer vac-fill pens?

It's really sad you constantly spend more time trying to find something to fight with in a post than you do trying to understand it.

To suggest to a lifelong teacher that he or she has not experienced some remarkable teachers in his or her life is beyond absurd.

Every teacher knows there is plenty of credence to that quote. I did not say nor imply it applies to all teachers. Nor that a teacher who can teach, but cannot do, is incapable of serving as a remarkable inspiration to a young person and have a greatly positive influence upon them.

As for the company I keep, I will indeed enjoy them. (Suffice it to say "present company" is not among them.)

PS: I'm sorry but I cannot help you with a recommendation on a good repair person for Sheaffer vac-fill pens.

Farmboy
January 1st, 2021, 09:11 PM
Gerry Berg

Empty_of_Clouds
January 1st, 2021, 09:50 PM
I would second that recommendation. Have sent a snorkel to Danny Fudge - great service, fast, good price - but after buying a vac-filler from Gerry I sent another to him for repair.

There's probably other people who are really good, but as I am largely isolated from pen people, I cannot name any others from personal experience.

silverlifter
January 1st, 2021, 09:53 PM
I have two of Gerry's vac-fillers. Both would suck a golfball through a garden hose.

guyy
January 1st, 2021, 11:14 PM
You lost all credibility with the “those who can’t, teach” rubbish. Unless you’d like to rephrase that, of course.

It's a widely employed quote, not one I made up.

And, it just so happens it is consistent with much of what I have experienced in my life. If you have not experienced something similar it does not mean that I have not...........

If the result is I have now lost all credibility, so be it. It puts me in some good company.

Let’s call a spade a spade: This phrase is an insult to teachers. On top of that, it is simply wrong. The teacher who taught you to read knows how to read. The teacher who taught you to multiply knows how to multiply.

And no you’re not in good company when you repeat it. In my experience, people who repeat this claptrap have unjustified confidence in their own knowledge and intellect. If you have not experienced something similar it does not mean that I have not.

Jon Szanto
January 1st, 2021, 11:23 PM
To suggest to a lifelong teacher that he or she has not experienced some remarkable teachers in his or her life is beyond absurd.

Read carefully, as I left the door open to the possibility. I would never think a teacher themself would offer the unfortunate quote, but perhaps I am wrong in this. I do want to apologize, without going back and deleting it (I hate revisionist history) my use of the term rubbish. Not cool.


Every teacher knows there is plenty of credence to that quote. I did not say nor imply it applies to all teachers. Nor that a teacher who can teach, but cannot do, is incapable of serving as a remarkable inspiration to a young person and have a greatly positive influence upon them.


To the first statement, I still most vigorously disagree, and it is woefully inadequate to attempt to retroactively callibrate such a statement: it does, indeed, imply that a teacher is inferior to a practitioner with no qualifications. This is an egregious overstatement. The final failure is that it overlooks the most powerful negation of the statement itself: those that do both, with the skills, experience, and equanimity required in both actions.

This isn't an end-all, be-all dialog. I openly entertain your proposed way of finding other sources for a talent (in this case, pen repairs) but you have been opaque about the process as well as using an unfortunate catch-phrase to bolster it. As someone who has spent a career both as a performer and a teacher, I have never seen merit in the statement, even if I have seen members of both endeavors fall short as often as succeed. It is simply not the duality that your phrase clearly implies.

I would be interesting to hear a more delineated methodology for finding those wonderful craftspeople who seem to be hidden in our midst. There is no reason to not consider adding them to the strong list I have of talented repair professionals.

Jon Szanto
January 1st, 2021, 11:28 PM
Gerry Berg


I would second that recommendation.


I have two of Gerry's vac-fillers. Both would suck a golfball through a garden hose.

Gentlemen, I do apologize: I clearly should have labeled the rhetorical question as... a rhetorical question! Gerry has done a number of my Sheaffer's and I'm happy to attest to his work. Frankly, it's kind of interesting as he doesn't have any personal footprint on the various pen forums and doesn't run a personal site for his services (that I recall). He is simply known as one of the very best on that matter, and maybe a good example of the type of person 724Seney was referring to.

I don't know how many times I've posted on various forums that 17-second YouTube of Gerry demo-ing one of the barrel fills. Brings the house down.

Chrissy
January 2nd, 2021, 12:10 AM
You lost all credibility with the “those who can’t, teach” rubbish. Unless you’d like to rephrase that, of course.

It's a widely employed quote, not one I made up.

And, it just so happens it is consistent with much of what I have experienced in my life. If you have not experienced something similar it does not mean that I have not...........

If the result is I have now lost all credibility, so be it. It puts me in some good company.

Let’s call a spade a spade: This phrase is an insult to teachers. On top of that, it is simply wrong. The teacher who taught you to read knows how to read. The teacher who taught you to multiply knows how to multiply.

And no you’re not in good company when you repeat it. In my experience, people who repeat this claptrap have unjustified confidence in their own knowledge and intellect. If you have not experienced something similar it does not mean that I have not.
It was designed to be a phrase to disparage teachers. According to what I've read it originally came from George Bernard Shaw's Man and Superman where the teacher discouraged the novel that a pupil was writing.
Either way it's not worth repeating and claptrap is a great description of it.

RobJohnson
January 2nd, 2021, 05:52 AM
...The name of the repairer is Write On Time West, on the West Coast. The name of the person I messaged back and forth with is Ray.
What address or city, or more specifically, which county?

Sacramento

FredRydr
January 2nd, 2021, 05:56 AM
SacramentoDamn, that was quick, before I posted my edits! :)

According to the Sacramento's clerk's office data records updated as of today, the user of the fictitious name "Write on Time" (with or without "West") has failed to file the mandatory registration that identifies the individual and address using that name (and requires payment of a business tax to operate in the city). The typical ramifications for the violator are penalties and inability to avail the business's use or protection of the courts.

Have a search if you will: http://www.cityofsacramento.org/Finance/Revenue/Business-Operation-Tax/Looking-for-a-Business

I noticed a reference to Maiden NC on the facebook page in the link above. Likewise, there is no registration of the name in North Carolina.

Ditto: https://www.sosnc.gov/online_services/assumed_name/search/id

The very purpose of mandatory fictitious (assumed) name registration is to protect the public against unscrupulous individuals hiding behind business names without identifying the true legal entity behind it, whether it is a natural person or a corporation. The OP's dilemma is a perfect example. Hopefully he will be able to piece together more precise information from his correspondence and from other victims.

Ole Juul
January 2nd, 2021, 07:44 AM
Regarding the quote about teachers. I don't think it speaks to the quality of a teachers ability at all. I've always taken it to refer to someone who doesn't have, or is not interested in, what it takes to compete in another market. For instance, and engineer might not like the harsh and competitive environment of the business world, so he decides to teach engineering instead. An artist might now want to stress over competing in the commercial world in order to pay the mortgage - so they decide that teaching art is a good idea. Etc. Whether of not that is considered a negative thing is up to somebody's personal philosophy, but it certainly doesn't say anything negative about their teaching ability.

FredRydr
January 2nd, 2021, 07:48 AM
BTW: If Write on Time used a PO Box, the true identity of the box holder is available from the relevant post office.

Jon Szanto
January 2nd, 2021, 12:02 PM
Regarding the quote about teachers. I don't think it speaks to the quality of a teachers ability at all.

I realize we all parse language differently, and I really didn't leave space for your interpretation, but there is an inescapable fact (to me) in the structure of the actual phrase ("Those that can, do; those that can't, teach.") There is a duality inherent in the wording that distinctly implies 'those unable to do 1 will have to do 2'. It casts teaching as a 2nd tier ability, relegated to those who couldn't cut it in the 'do' department.

I'll wager that this is how most people read the phrase and the way it is most often implied in use. That is the manner that I objected to, because I don't think teaching takes a back seat to any other endeavor.

silverlifter
January 2nd, 2021, 12:20 PM
One further perspective on the teachers/doers thing.

In many fields of endeavour, including fountain pen restoration I would wager, one can really only teach (credibly) after a long and successful period of doing. So it isn't an either/or, rather an evolution. You do something well enough for long enough, and eventually you are in the fortunate position of being able to share that experience and wisdom with others.

Chuck Naill
January 2nd, 2021, 12:28 PM
Well, I will add that just because someone decides to teach does not mean they are good at it. The same would hold to any professional. Finding a teacher skilled in communication, mentoring, and of course knowledge is a wonderful thing to experience and it usually only takes one, maybe two to set the student on the course toward success.

I assume I am the product of many teachers. Perhaps we all are.

FredRydr
January 2nd, 2021, 02:25 PM
The OP must think he's posted his pen dilemma on the NEA website by mistake.

Chuck Naill
January 2nd, 2021, 02:28 PM
He's probably curous why he got the responses he did. I am curious why the same member(s) respond that way and why they usually have to say they shouldn't have responded that way? :crazy:

Jon Szanto
January 2nd, 2021, 02:44 PM
He's probably curous why he got the responses he did. I am curious why the same member(s) respond that way and why they usually have to say they shouldn't have responded that way? :crazy:

I can tell you for a fact that the OP is getting a start on information regarding the repair person in question and his pen, and I can also tell you that a number of us know exactly who he is dealing with and know a history of this. Not all dialog exists strictly in the thread, but can occur in other ways.

Don't assume, please. Be open to the possibility that we are actually helping someone.

Baisao
January 2nd, 2021, 02:54 PM
He's probably curous why he got the responses he did. I am curious why the same member(s) respond that way and why they usually have to say they shouldn't have responded that way? :crazy:

I can tell you for a fact that the OP is getting a start on information regarding the repair person in question and his pen, and I can also tell you that a number of us know exactly who he is dealing with and know a history of this. Not all dialog exists strictly in the thread, but can occur in other ways.

Don't assume, please. Be open to the possibility that we are actually helping someone.

For the rest of us it looks like a few egos arguing over unhelpful, off topic minutiae. It’s certainly off putting and belongs in the lounge, if anywhere. I was starting to feel concerned for the OP and any new member who stumbled upon this mess.

Jon Szanto
January 2nd, 2021, 03:28 PM
For the rest of us it looks like a few egos arguing over unhelpful, off topic minutiae. It’s certainly off putting and belongs in the lounge, if anywhere. I was starting to feel concerned for the OP and any new member who stumbled upon this mess.

As I said, the OP is appreciative. They are new here and might not have known a particularly good place to post. For a pen 'lost' with a repair person, maybe this was as likely a place as any. I realize that, once again, the thread drifted. These things happen. We'll try to sort that out.

But beyond the excursion, we're trying to help the guy out. I've got contact info emails out to a number of other people. If anyone "new" reads the thread, maybe they'll see that this is an honest effort to be helpful, no matter how anyone wants to paint it, and in spite of some errant comments.

FredRydr
January 2nd, 2021, 04:12 PM
In plain terms, pertinent information is being shared backchannel.

TSherbs
January 2nd, 2021, 04:32 PM
Dayonfire, I hope that this works out for you.

Chuck Naill
January 3rd, 2021, 08:43 AM
He's probably curous why he got the responses he did. I am curious why the same member(s) respond that way and why they usually have to say they shouldn't have responded that way? :crazy:

I can tell you for a fact that the OP is getting a start on information regarding the repair person in question and his pen, and I can also tell you that a number of us know exactly who he is dealing with and know a history of this. Not all dialog exists strictly in the thread, but can occur in other ways.

Don't assume, please. Be open to the possibility that we are actually helping someone.

Ironically, you chose to post. Why? And, you're giving me lessons on making assumption? Ha!!

FredRydr
January 3rd, 2021, 09:02 AM
Chuck, your last two posts are rather obscure.

Ole Juul
January 3rd, 2021, 09:08 AM
... obscure.
Indeed, this thread is way over my head at this point.

Chuck Naill
January 3rd, 2021, 09:27 AM
Don't worry, Fred. It's a "back channel" thing.

FredRydr
January 3rd, 2021, 09:53 AM
Don't worry, Fred. It's a "back channel" thing.
No, you're making it a public forum thing. Just keep it back channel.

Chuck Naill
January 3rd, 2021, 09:58 AM
No, based on my experience here, I will leave it as is, Fred.

FredRydr
January 3rd, 2021, 11:43 AM
No, based on my experience here, I will leave it as is, Fred.
This makes no sense. I'm done.

Chuck Naill
January 3rd, 2021, 12:25 PM
You should have been done before the last two posts.....:whip:

RobJohnson
January 3rd, 2021, 12:56 PM
Even my old dog knows when to stop growling.

Jon Szanto
January 3rd, 2021, 01:32 PM
You should have been done before the last two posts.....:whip:

I reached out to the OP through PMs, so as to take any literal information regarding the matter off of a public forum. I am continuing to assist through private channels, along with colleagues. The point of this is to - hopefully - get the pen back to the owner (OP). It would be grand if you could just leave it for now, until and unless the OP has something to report back, or you have something relevant to help the guy out.

corgicoupe
January 10th, 2021, 10:41 AM
You lost all credibility with the “those who can’t, teach” rubbish. Unless you’d like to rephrase that, of course.

It's a widely employed quote, not one I made up.

And, it just so happens it is consistent with much of what I have experienced in my life. If you have not experienced something similar it does not mean that I have not...........
.

There is another quote that speaks to this, and having been a university professor I can vouch for its truth: You don't really learn something well until you have taught it.

dneal
January 10th, 2021, 12:33 PM
You lost all credibility with the “those who can’t, teach” rubbish. Unless you’d like to rephrase that, of course.

It's a widely employed quote, not one I made up.

And, it just so happens it is consistent with much of what I have experienced in my life. If you have not experienced something similar it does not mean that I have not...........
.

There is another quote that speaks to this, and having been a university professor I can vouch for its truth: You don't really learn something well until you have taught it.

Sounds kind of self-serving.

A variation that comes to mind is “you don’t really understand something unless you can explain it to a child in a way they understand.”

Ray-VIgo
January 11th, 2021, 02:58 PM
The most permanent way to learn something is to have it bite you in the ass. That's a lesson I've learned the hard way.

dneal
January 11th, 2021, 05:01 PM
The most permanent way to learn something is to have it bite you in the ass. That's a lesson I've learned the hard way.

That’s the Army way to learn - through pain.