2020 Rambling

[eachan]

Even apart from Covid-19, which has been thoroughly discussed here, it has been a strange year. There was Brexit, as fine an example of manipulating opinion as anything Trump has done. We feared that our European customers would have to pay an import tax but now it appears not, thankfully.

One consequence is that the government, perhaps anticipating a no-deal exit, produced a new customs label which requires more information. It is so long that it may not fit on our mailing tubes along with all the other stickers that are applied.

We decided to cut back the workload. I'm 70 and not in the best of health. The business is Deb's but I help where I can. We decided the best way to keep up stock value while reducing effort is to stop restoring all the other pens and stick to Mabie Todd. We were able to make a little money and make more room available selling off our spares stock for Parker, Conway Stewart and Waterman. We would have liked to continue doing Onoto but the restoration can be uneconomically time consuming and really requires a better spares stock than we held.

Deb left Fountain Pen Geeks and I joined. I feel it is important to take part in the fountain pen boards. Vintage pens are not a static market and the boards help to gauge the movements and I might be able to help someone along the way. As an aside, at least one member here thinks I'm Deb. I assure I'm not. Long before we met it was admiration for each other's writing style, in LiveJournal in those days, that drew us together. We've worked together on the pen business, including blog writing, for so many years that we share opinions and vocabulary - perhaps even writing style.

I like being here. It was a difficult year for Fountain Pen Geeks. There was unpleasantness in the early part of the year and I put that down to the stresses and strains of the pandemic. The abrupt and mostly temporary incursion of people from FPN was unsettling. We may never know whether the troll attack was related to that. Through it all the personalities and commitment of some members shone through. It can't have been easy for them to keep contributing but I'm glad they did and do. I'm not going to list names but I think they will know who I mean. I think and hope there will be better times ahead for the board.

[FredRydr]

...at least one member here thinks I'm Deb. I assure I'm not....
Maybe it's that time of year, and with the cancellations, that member is pining for Widow Twanky.

[Pterodactylus]

Thanks for the info.

Do you know how the import from Britain into the EU really looks like?

On Austrian sites (updated in the last week) they still claim that even with the negotiated deal you have to do customs declarations and pay import turnover tax for goods value more than 22€.
Which at least for me would make shopping from Britain quite unattractive.

But maybe this is only a temporary status.
Today in our news I saw that Sturgeon want to bring Scotland back into the EU.
I guess the main question is will the Brits allow a new referendum?

Trusting the media’s the result might be a different one as the last one, difficult to judge from the outside only reading the news.
As a Scotsman, what do you think?

[adhoc]

Thanks for the info.

Do you know how the import from Britain into the EU really looks like?

On Austrian sites (updated in the last week) they still claim that even with the negotiated deal you have to do customs declarations and pay import turnover tax for goods value more than 22€.
Which at least for me would make shopping from Britain quite unattractive.

But maybe this is only a temporary status.
Today in our news I saw that Sturgeon want to bring Scotland back into the EU.
I guess the main question is will the Brits allow a new referendum?

Trusting the media’s the result might be a different one as the last one, difficult to judge from the outside only reading the news.
As a Scotsman, what do you think?

Yup, anything over 22€ means import duties. This really kills it for me, and I did almost all of my fountain pen related shopping from UK. Did another 2 big orders in December to have things for a while.

[eachan]

Thanks for the info.

Do you know how the import from Britain into the EU really looks like?

On Austrian sites (updated in the last week) they still claim that even with the negotiated deal you have to do customs declarations and pay import turnover tax for goods value more than 22€.
Which at least for me would make shopping from Britain quite unattractive.

But maybe this is only a temporary status.
Today in our news I saw that Sturgeon want to bring Scotland back into the EU.
I guess the main question is will the Brits allow a new referendum?

Trusting the media’s the result might be a different one as the last one, difficult to judge from the outside only reading the news.
As a Scotsman, what do you think?

Scotland voted against Brexit and many of us (me included) feel that we are still European but no longer British. If there is a majority for parties that wish for a referendum (SNP, Greens, possibly Scottish Labour if they ever get their act together) in the upcoming Scottish Parliament elections the argument for another referendum will be very strong. If there were to be such a referendum, I can't forecast the outcome. There appears to be a small "yes" lead according to the polls but we know what they are worth. Anyway, it will all be argued out again before voting takes place. Last time the percentages for and against appeared to changing day by day.

I think European countries may well be paying import tax on our pens.

[Chrissy]

Yup, anything over 22€ means import duties. This really kills it for me, and I did almost all of my fountain pen related shopping from UK. Did another 2 big orders in December to have things for a while.

We don't yet know the details of exactly how it's going to work but I'm not sure it will be as bad as you think it might be. If anything changes it will be the fact that you might now buy goods at a VAT free price from the UK and then pay the VAT when you receive the goods.

Import duties have never been charged on all goods within the EU and are usually very low. So most of the time you could merely just be paying your VAT separately on receipt, instead of up front within the purchase price.

It might be no different to buying goods from countries like the US or Japan, or it might be completely different. However, you have always had to pay VAT on goods from the UK, and you still will, even if there is a change in exactly how and when it is taken. :)

[Pterodactylus]

Thanks for the info.

Do you know how the import from Britain into the EU really looks like?

On Austrian sites (updated in the last week) they still claim that even with the negotiated deal you have to do customs declarations and pay import turnover tax for goods value more than 22€.
Which at least for me would make shopping from Britain quite unattractive.

But maybe this is only a temporary status.
Today in our news I saw that Sturgeon want to bring Scotland back into the EU.
I guess the main question is will the Brits allow a new referendum?

Trusting the media’s the result might be a different one as the last one, difficult to judge from the outside only reading the news.
As a Scotsman, what do you think?

Yup, anything over 22€ means import duties. This really kills it for me, and I did almost all of my fountain pen related shopping from UK. Did another 2 big orders in December to have things for a while.

Did the same as you before the deadline, ordered quite some sacs (from Pendragons) and inks (from TheWritingDesk) in Nov and Dec.
Just as for you this is a dealbreaker for me and I will only order something from Britain if there is really no other choice available.

I’m sorry for all the smaller companies which made a good part of their business in Europe.
As usual it will hit often the wrong ones, but hey the Brits got what they asked for.....

[Pterodactylus]

Yup, anything over 22€ means import duties. This really kills it for me, and I did almost all of my fountain pen related shopping from UK. Did another 2 big orders in December to have things for a while.

We don't yet know the details of exactly how it's going to work but I'm not sure it will be as bad as you think it might be. If anything changes it will be the fact that you might now buy goods at a VAT free price from the UK and then pay the VAT when you receive the goods.

Import duties have never been charged on all goods within the EU and are usually very low. So most of the time you could merely just be paying your VAT separately on receipt, instead of up front within the purchase price.

It might be no different to buying goods from countries like the US or Japan, or it might be completely different. However, you have always had to pay VAT on goods from the UK, and you still will, even if there is a change in exactly how and when it is taken. :)

I think you are wrong, this is in most cases a dealbreaker.

E.g. the Austrian Post takes a 10€ handling fee on top of all taxes just that you receive the package and that they take your tax money you have to pay.
Above 150€ it‘s not only the import tax, then you also have to pay customs taxes/fees depending on the goods and the value.
And you might have to deal with the customs themself to get your stuff in case they think something is not 100% correctly declared.

Therefor I already almost never ordered something from outside the EU.
Itˋs just too expensive and inconvenient.

And in case you have to send something back you have to deal with the customs declaration and and and.....

[Pterodactylus]

Thanks for the info.

Do you know how the import from Britain into the EU really looks like?

On Austrian sites (updated in the last week) they still claim that even with the negotiated deal you have to do customs declarations and pay import turnover tax for goods value more than 22€.
Which at least for me would make shopping from Britain quite unattractive.

But maybe this is only a temporary status.
Today in our news I saw that Sturgeon want to bring Scotland back into the EU.
I guess the main question is will the Brits allow a new referendum?

Trusting the media’s the result might be a different one as the last one, difficult to judge from the outside only reading the news.
As a Scotsman, what do you think?

Scotland voted against Brexit and many of us (me included) feel that we are still European but no longer British. If there is a majority for parties that wish for a referendum (SNP, Greens, possibly Scottish Labour if they ever get their act together) in the upcoming Scottish Parliament elections the argument for another referendum will be very strong. If there were to be such a referendum, I can't forecast the outcome. There appears to be a small "yes" lead according to the polls but we know what they are worth. Anyway, it will all be argued out again before voting takes place. Last time the percentages for and against appeared to changing day by day.

I think European countries may well be paying import tax on our pens.

Thanks for you helpful response. 👍

[eachan]

Chrissy is right about VAT and import duties, of course. A couple of you are saying that you won't buy from Britain because of these added charges, if they occur. You need to do a little more calculation. I see vintage Conway Stewarts, for instance, for sale in this forum at a lot more than I or a couple of other British traders charge for the same pen. Even with the added charge, my pens would still be cheaper by a good margin in most cases and the same would be true of writetime.co.uk and probably a few others.

[adhoc]

Chrissy is right about VAT and import duties, of course. A couple of you are saying that you won't buy from Britain because of these added charges, if they occur. You need to do a little more calculation. I see vintage Conway Stewarts, for instance, for sale in this forum at a lot more than I or a couple of other British traders charge for the same pen. Even with the added charge, my pens would still be cheaper by a good margin in most cases and the same would be true of writetime.co.uk and probably a few others.

Like Ptero explained, there are surcharges involved even when the price is the same (prices without tax on store and then you pay tax at import office). There are handling fees at the import office and you frequently have to prove the amount owed with a receipt, this also usually prolongs the delivery significantly. It's just such a hassle, I'm not sure it will be worth the effort.

We will see what comes of this, I hope it will be better for everyone involved in the long run. Somehow.

[An old bloke]

'We will see what comes' is it exactly. This past year, if nothing else, has taught the meaning and value of adaptability. That said, any changes resulting from Brexit will prove to be of little consequence in the end.

[eachan]

Chrissy is right about VAT and import duties, of course. A couple of you are saying that you won't buy from Britain because of these added charges, if they occur. You need to do a little more calculation. I see vintage Conway Stewarts, for instance, for sale in this forum at a lot more than I or a couple of other British traders charge for the same pen. Even with the added charge, my pens would still be cheaper by a good margin in most cases and the same would be true of writetime.co.uk and probably a few others.

Like Ptero explained, there are surcharges involved even when the price is the same (prices without tax on store and then you pay tax at import office). There are handling fees at the import office and you frequently have to prove the amount owed with a receipt, this also usually prolongs the delivery significantly. It's just such a hassle, I'm not sure it will be worth the effort.

We will see what comes of this, I hope it will be better for everyone involved in the long run. Somehow.

I agree, and I took that into account in what I said. Most of my overseas customers are in countries like the US, Canada, Australia and so on. They don't seem to have the problems you envisage. I buy pens and sacs from the US and I calculate those additional costs into my outlay. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.