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adhoc
March 19th, 2021, 06:47 AM
Life is easier when you no longer have to live in worry for meeting your rent / mortgage, food, and bills expenses. But money can't buy you happiness.

A very well off - think brand new Porsche and a Mercedes within one month just for fun well off - friend of mine committed suicide. I just learned this today. Early 30s, left a 3 year old behind. I always had suspicion he made a kid in search for happiness, as he simply couldn't find nor buy it - and not for a lack of trying. But I don't think you can find happiness in somebody else, it has to come from you, and others around you can merely supplement, enhance it.

On paper he had everything.

I hope you found what you were looking for, friend.

Chuck Naill
March 27th, 2021, 12:30 PM
There is wealth and there is debt. Just because someone has expensive items does not mean they own them. Wealth can be gotten dishonorably as well as hard work and knowledge. Assuming your friend didn't have debt and was well off by the sweat of his brow, there is mental illness to consider.

That said, having the love of my children and the love that I have for them is my life, but I did invest in them and their children as well. So, if one is so bent, children are a gift.

Also, life is just hard and some are more prepared than others to handle. Some have had horrible experiences. When I see Joe Biden I see a man who lost a wife, a daughter, and a son. For me this is life's greatest pain. If you listen to him 40 years ago and listen to him now, you can see and hear the difference. He also once almost died from a brain aneurysm or CVA. He also once thought he couldn't go on. He had friends who encouraged him. We need family and friends and some people, for whatever reason, just never have acquired any.

Boston Brian
April 1st, 2021, 09:58 PM
If money can,t buy you happiness, then you really don't know where to shop!

adhoc
April 2nd, 2021, 05:07 AM
Chuck, there was no debt. Trust me, this was big money. Nothing has made me as happy as becoming a father, even though I never really wanted it. I guess we really don't know what makes us happy. But imagine being able to buy whatever you wanted, and none of it mattered. Then you try having a family, and what if that also doesn't make you happy? I imagine you could easily lose hope of ever finding happiness then.

Brian, I don't know what to tell you, obviously that would be subjective, but I have NEVER been able to buy myself happiness outside of the few days lasting lasting roller coaster of a ride of positive emotions. Nothing long lasting, just an endless cycle of consumerism that needs to be repeated every few days.

Chuck Naill
April 2nd, 2021, 04:41 PM
Poverty is not a sure fire ingredient for happiness either. So, it must be something else.

Igraine
April 3rd, 2021, 10:35 AM
Life is easier when you no longer have to live in worry for meeting your rent / mortgage, food, and bills expenses. But money can't buy you happiness.

A very well off - think brand new Porsche and a Mercedes within one month just for fun well off - friend of mine committed suicide. I just learned this today. Early 30s, left a 3 year old behind. I always had suspicion he made a kid in search for happiness, as he simply couldn't find nor buy it - and not for a lack of trying. But I don't think you can find happiness in somebody else, it has to come from you, and others around you can merely supplement, enhance it.

On paper he had everything.

I hope you found what you were looking for, friend.

So sorry to hear about your friend. People with money do this all of the time. As someone who has struggled at times with depression, I feel for him. But the way I see it, life is so short anyway, may as well hang in there and hope for the best - because really, for the person who commits suicide, their struggle is over, it’s the people they leave behind who now have a lot of pain to deal with. It just makes me sad, to think someone feels so bad that suicide becomes the only option. My cousin killed himself a few years ago, but he had major mental issues that he didn’t get help for, and was struggling with an ever growing mountain of debt, especially tax debt. So high that there was no way he’d ever get out from under it. He got some rope and found a beautiful, isolated beach in Costa Rica, and hung himself from a tree. I knew it was going to happen, and we begged him for years to get help - but he didn’t. All I can think is, he did live an exciting life - he traveled and did all of the things a lot of people wish they could do. He spent a year backpacking through Peru before his death.

Your friend left behind a 3 year old. That’s just heartbreaking.

adhoc
April 3rd, 2021, 11:03 AM
Life is easier when you no longer have to live in worry for meeting your rent / mortgage, food, and bills expenses. But money can't buy you happiness.

A very well off - think brand new Porsche and a Mercedes within one month just for fun well off - friend of mine committed suicide. I just learned this today. Early 30s, left a 3 year old behind. I always had suspicion he made a kid in search for happiness, as he simply couldn't find nor buy it - and not for a lack of trying. But I don't think you can find happiness in somebody else, it has to come from you, and others around you can merely supplement, enhance it.

On paper he had everything.

I hope you found what you were looking for, friend.

So sorry to hear about your friend. People with money do this all of the time. As someone who has struggled at times with depression, I feel for him. But the way I see it, life is so short anyway, may as well hang in there and hope for the best - because really, for the person who commits suicide, their struggle is over, it’s the people they leave behind who now have a lot of pain to deal with. It just makes me sad, to think someone feels so bad that suicide becomes the only option. My cousin killed himself a few years ago, but he had major mental issues that he didn’t get help for, and was struggling with an ever growing mountain of debt, especially tax debt. So high that there was no way he’d ever get out from under it. He got some rope and found a beautiful, isolated beach in Costa Rica, and hung himself from a tree. I knew it was going to happen, and we begged him for years to get help - but he didn’t. All I can think is, he did live an exciting life - he traveled and did all of the things a lot of people wish they could do. He spent a year backpacking through Peru before his death.

Your friend left behind a 3 year old. That’s just heartbreaking.

Thanks. The finality of it really strikes hard. There's simply NOTHING you can do anymore. You will never again not even run into that person on the streets. I know it sounds obvious, but for some reason I never really thought of it before.


Poverty is not a sure fire ingredient for happiness either. So, it must be something else.

Yeah, I did state that in the OP.

TSherbs
April 3rd, 2021, 11:16 AM
"happiness" shouldn't even be the goal

There are much greater and deeper and sustaining forms of satisfaction than the fleeting cloud-states we call "happy" that pass through our existence from time to time.

But let us remember how much comfort and protection from misery and pain and hunger money can "buy." Forgetting this is an act of privilege.

Chuck Naill
April 3rd, 2021, 04:55 PM
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, to borrow an ancient concept. So yes, happiness, is a goal if not the goal for philosophers and writers. Happiness is different for everyone, but the commonality of the pursuit of such isn't, whatever it turns out to be. Right now, I am most happy when no one is telling me what I must do.

TSherbs
April 3rd, 2021, 05:54 PM
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, to borrow an ancient concept. So yes, happiness, is a goal if not the goal for philosophers and writers. Happiness is different for everyone, but the commonality of the pursuit of such isn't, whatever it turns out to be. Right now, I am most happy when no one is telling me what I must do.

That "happiness" meant fortune, happenstance, even luck: the positive results of work and what we would call "livelihood."

"Happiness" is not an "ancient" concept, especially not in meaning a pleasurable mental state (not that word, anyway). The first recorded use in English is from 1300s. Even "happy" is from "hap" + y, meaning having luck or good fortune.

And we all know that luck is elusive and fleeting, but yes, you may pursue it as you wish.

The ancients wisdom-keepers recommend otherwise, however. But what did they know? As Huck Finn says of Biblical figures, "I don't take no stock in dead people."

dneal
April 3rd, 2021, 07:31 PM
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, to borrow an ancient concept. So yes, happiness, is a goal if not the goal for philosophers and writers. Happiness is different for everyone, but the commonality of the pursuit of such isn't, whatever it turns out to be. Right now, I am most happy when no one is telling me what I must do.

That "happiness" meant fortune, happenstance, even luck: the positive results of work and what we would call "livelihood."

"Happiness" is not an "ancient" concept, especially not in meaning a pleasurable mental state (not that word, anyway). The first recorded use in English is from 1300s. Even "happy" is from "hap" + y, meaning having luck or good fortune.

And we all know that luck is elusive and fleeting, but yes, you may pursue it as you wish.

The ancients wisdom-keepers recommend otherwise, however. But what did they know? As Huck Finn says of Biblical figures, "I don't take no stock in dead people."

You need to go back another millennium or so - maybe that's the "ancient" period - but you'll find the Greeks using the word Eudaimonia

The issue, as Chuck points out, is what happiness actually is; and the Greeks were very keen on that notion. What else was Aristotle talking about, and his golden mean? What was the purpose of the Stoics? Have you ever read Epictetus?

It's not even isolated to the Greeks. On the other side of the planet, Buddha was teaching people how to not suffer. He was teaching them how to be happy.

Bold2013
April 3rd, 2021, 09:19 PM
Agreed Tsherbs

lsmith42
April 3rd, 2021, 11:03 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210404/07ff54a4b0985afbeb5c7c0d9e57077a.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chuck Naill
April 4th, 2021, 05:01 AM
It is often asked, how do I have a good life. We sometimes are led to think it means to have power or self determination, and the resouces to bring it about. If we have these we shall be happy aka content. If by happy we mean, joy, this may be a different topic.

A writer once suggested that the greatest motivation is to be relavent. I tend to agree because one can be relavent even if their condiditions are less than adequate.


I had an uncle who like to respond to the question, "how much money to you need" to which he laughed and said, "just a little more". It was quite true for him.

Perhaps what we are really talking about is contentment. Or, learning how not to strive, but being settled. To be content even when life is not pleasent or going well. Some have said that after they experienced a very trying ordeal, they have experienced peace within themselves and have developed the habit of enjoying their lives minute by minutes. I've experienced this myself. It is neither longing for the past or wanting the future. It's enjoying your pen collection, your morning coffee, the first sip of your favorite libation, the embrace of those who love you, of learning to live and enbrace your own self, and of course, learning to love others as much as you love yourself. Sorry for the brief thinking outloud.

adhoc
April 4th, 2021, 11:37 AM
Thanks Chuck, I enjoyed reading your "rambling".


"happiness" shouldn't even be the goal

There are much greater and deeper and sustaining forms of satisfaction than the fleeting cloud-states we call "happy" that pass through our existence from time to time.

But let us remember how much comfort and protection from misery and pain and hunger money can "buy." Forgetting this is an act of privilege.

I keep coming back to this post in my mind and I really agree with it entirely. Well said.

Chuck Naill
April 6th, 2021, 04:37 AM
Thanks Chuck, I enjoyed reading your "rambling".


"happiness" shouldn't even be the goal

There are much greater and deeper and sustaining forms of satisfaction than the fleeting cloud-states we call "happy" that pass through our existence from time to time.

But let us remember how much comfort and protection from misery and pain and hunger money can "buy." Forgetting this is an act of privilege.

I keep coming back to this post in my mind and I really agree with it entirely. Well said.

I don't seen happiness as solely the goal. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is how the framers chose to communicate. Pursuing does not mean it will actually be attained. And, one must have life and liberty as a beginning point of which forced migrated Africans never were allowed to enjoy. Of course, others were also denied life and liberty. However, the framers didn't define happiness, but silently acknowledged that happiness is as individuals right to define and then pursue.

One can be happy in their profession, happy in their hobbies, happy in their aquisitions, happy in their family, happy in their solitude. Happiness is related to satisfaction, contentment, and being established as one decides. It is not to me some "pie in the sky" notion. And there is a degree of decision to be happy similarly to deciding to be kind, not cynical, or unselfish.

TFarnon
April 17th, 2021, 02:27 AM
True, that. I was looking over my journal entries and noticed the very first one in this journal. I wrote it the day after I made it to a million dollars in net worth. I don't have any debt to speak of. Everything is paid off, or gets paid off with every statement, or every payday. I'm still working eight months after I reached that goal. I thought I'd be doing things differently, like maybe retiring and relaxing. Okay, so COVID quickly put an end to those ideas, because if I couldn't go out and do stuff, I might as well go to work. I work in one of those essential occupations, so there was no threat of layoffs. I thought maybe my financial habits would change, and I'd spend money on luxury items. Nope. I love my tiny Prius c, so I don't want a new car. I don't want a big, fancy house. I don't wear fancy clothes at work, or anywhere else really. I have enough fine jewelry. I don't feel the need for more, as much as I admit to liking shiny and sparkly things. Life goes on for me as it did pre-million, and pre-COVID. I work graveyard shift, by choice.

Money not only doesn't buy me happiness, but it hasn't changed me or my life. What brings me happiness are my cats. Yep. I'm a crazy cat lady, only with fewer cats than that.

Empty_of_Clouds
April 17th, 2021, 05:50 AM
I get that. In a similar position here. However, in my case the assets are kind of locked in, and while I could up my fluidity by borrowing against the assets, I choose not to take on that kind of debt. So in practical terms I remain a working man paying bills every month, just like before any investment.

That said, changing the manner or magnitude of spending is, in my opinion, a function of the values you grew up with. The values I grew up with, and adhere to most of the time, tell me there is often very little or no appreciable additional utility in buying expensive examples of an item that is available fully functional at a lower price . The only time I don't really follow that principle is either when the cost difference is insignificant in terms of impact on my quality of life, or when the kind of precision that costs more is actually required, as in some tools.

No, money does not buy one happiness, except of the most fleeting and valueless kind. It can buy you security, and that would certainly eliminate some of the stresses we face in life.

As for what constitutes a content state... I do note that it seems that at no other time in history have we been so obsessed with filling our days with measurable things. What ever happened to taking time to simply being, to taking a real breath, to sitting and letting one's eyes rest on the view, to letting in the music? Everything is so much a rush these days, so much a thoughtless desire to match one's peers, to compare, to race toward some money-linked pseudo nirvana. And while I am no less immune to this than anyone, I do try to resist it. The constant gaslighting of social and marketing media is a tough nut to crack at times.

Empty_of_Clouds
April 17th, 2021, 06:36 AM
https://i.imgur.com/Ns4Xbccl.jpg

Angelbane
October 5th, 2022, 04:04 AM
Why act so rudely? You go there with your pockets stuffed full of cash, and all you bring back is genuine pleasure. If you don't steal a casino, you can either depart with your luggage packed with money, a ton of troubles, or even both. I've always fantasized about breaking into a casino wildcard city vip casino login (https://wildcardcityvip.com/login) or a makeshift bank there in order to steal the money and never use it.

Chuck Naill
October 5th, 2022, 12:27 PM
The point is to have a good life and not how much money you can acquire. Now, I may be assuming too much!

Too much with dread of loss is worse than too little and hope that better times are coming.

It is easier to focus on negativity than positivity.

NeitMiko
November 30th, 2022, 10:02 AM
Money doesn't buy you happiness but with their help, you can travel around the world and be happy because of that, buy something for your friends/parents that they wanted for a long time and it will make you happy... there're much more reasons why money really matter in the terms of happiness. That is the reason I decided to earn as much as I can and am playing also casino slot77 (https://kartagoroda.org/) as long as working a full-time job. Btw casino is pretty fun and profitable.

Chuck Naill
November 30th, 2022, 10:20 AM
Well said.

hefat
April 2nd, 2023, 09:17 AM
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dneal
April 2nd, 2023, 11:35 AM
hefat,

I’m going to assume you’re related to Mik.

Last chance. Seriously.

I’m considering sharing the email address, so others can weigh in as well. That’ll be a lot of emails for Leigh to sort through. I don’t imagine she’ll be pleased.

jace
April 6th, 2023, 07:00 AM
"happiness" shouldn't even be the goal

There are much greater and deeper and sustaining forms of satisfaction than the fleeting cloud-states we call "happy" that pass through our existence from time to time.

But let us remember how much comfort and protection from misery and pain and hunger money can "buy." Forgetting this is an act of privilege.

Could these "deeper" satisfactions just be a different level of happiness?

I mean I think it's all to do with brain chemistry at the end of the day. We can argue all we want about how some activities are better than others (e.g. doing mathematics vs reading mathematics vs playing video games), but it is all just molecules moving through our brains which motivate what we do and how we "feel".

Do we have free will may be another discussion that's related.

TSherbs
April 6th, 2023, 08:01 AM
"happiness" shouldn't even be the goal

There are much greater and deeper and sustaining forms of satisfaction than the fleeting cloud-states we call "happy" that pass through our existence from time to time.

But let us remember how much comfort and protection from misery and pain and hunger money can "buy." Forgetting this is an act of privilege.

Could these "deeper" satisfactions just be a different level of happiness? ...

Yes, certainly. I was suggesting that the word "happiness" (from "happy", meaning having luck or good fortune, or in a pleasant state of mind) was not in its connotation (and denotation) a permanent or lasting or deep or significant state of mind. There are, I think, better words for those deeper states (even if it is all brain chemistry).

TSherbs
May 28th, 2023, 07:05 PM
Money won't even buy you security against loss in California any more.

"State Farm is (no longer) there."

https://abcnews.go.com/US/state-farm-longer-accept-applications-homeowners-insurance-california/story?id=99660740

Rin Tin Pen
July 4th, 2023, 07:25 PM
For the behavioral researcher Frederick Herzberg, money (income, profit) is a source of dissatisfaction when you feel that you do not have enough of it. If your salary is sufficiently augmented with a healthy raise, your sense of dissatisfaction dissipates. That does NOT mean that you are now "satisfied" with your job (position, place in life, etc.). It simply means that a source of dissatisfaction for you has been eliminated.
...THAT IS...
The opposite of dissatisfaction is not satisfaction, it is "no dissatisfaction."
The opposite of satisfaction is not dissatisfaction, it is "no satisfaction."
...AND...
The opposite of happiness is not unhappiness, it is "no happiness."
The opposite of unhappiness is not happiness, it is "no unhappiness."

Lots of Americans are not "happy." But that does not mean that they are "unhappy." They are simply living lives of quiet desperation.

"Money don't get everything it's true,
What it don't get I can't use.
Now give me money, that's what I want. That's what I want..."
(Money, written by Berry Gordy and Janie Bradford. It became the first big money-making record for Gordy's Motown enterprise. LOL.)

Carpio
July 5th, 2023, 02:29 AM
Hello,

What is 'happiness'?
Is it the same 'happiness' that is seen through the eyes, and actions, of a dictator. Total power over how somebody else lives their life.(read Kim Jong Un)
Is it the same as watching the love of your life giving birth to your children?
Is it winning millions of £, $ on a lottery ticket or casino?
Is it catching the biggest fish in a lake, or finding/buying a new car, a fountain pen, a bowl of rice or donating monies to a charity, recovering from an illness?
Happiness takes many forms. What is one man/woman happiness may well be another persons nightmare.
Suicide is final. No coming back from it.
Suicide, in the eyes of some, is seen as a cowards way out. Isn't it?
As already has been said in the thread - the ones left behind are the ones left to pick up pieces - left with regrets that maybe they should of/could of done more to help. In itself, this can lead to mental health issues - and the cycle continues - ironic isn't it!
My Mother suffered several nervous/mental breakdowns in her life - several of them leaving indelible marks not to be wished on anyone, but, one can/has to make a choice, all be it, subconsciously/consciously - either rise above it, or go along with it and suffer oneself.
Mental health - now that's a big book. More pages than man/woman could read in a lifetime, but is it really?
I'm not saying that mental health isn't a wicked, horrible thing. It so is, but nowadays, and I can only speak for myself - nowadays, 'mental health' issues, is a card which is thrown around so quickly, with no thought being given to the truth of the matter.
As an example - here in the UK, where a 'celebrity' is made just for walking into somebody's house, unannounced, and filming the action/posting said event on Toktock, or whatever the social media shyte is called. That, well that brings celebrity status.
To the point - A certain British "celebrity" has, in the recent past, been caught drinking and driving, partaking in, caught red handed, snorting cocaine, been made bankrupt, amongst many other wrong doings. This woman has been taken to caught for her criminal actions, but has, due to her pleading she has "mental health" issues, been given very lenient sentencing/punishment. The punishment not fitting the crime. This said - the same woman then goes to a foreign land to have cosmetic surgery, costing thousands of £'s (bankrupt?), only to come back to the UK, to continue in her 'ways', ending up going to court again, and again pleading 'mental health' issues, only to go unpunished, again. Now, seen by a vast amount of people as, 'grabbing the limelight', said woman is now claiming that she has been processed as having ADHD. This, in her mind, at least in the minds of many, many people, keeps her 'relevant'. The gist being - for many, claiming mental health issues is an easy way out.
Mental health pleading, is passing real sick people by, and it is making people who do care, sceptical and appear thoughtless.
There isn't a test that the ordinary joe/josephine can take to be able to say, 'OK, you have issues. Let me help.' It's almost mandatory that one helps, but real people, with real issues, are being ignored.
Sorry if my thoughts/opinion agitates, but opinon is fine for everyone. I do care. I care for people who feel that life can't go on, but such a person must also help themselves. Don't give up with the slightest of 'suffering' (in any form). Fight back..... and for those that say (in their accepted opinion), it isn't as easy as that. How do they know?
Mental health is - a military man witnessing attrocities in war. Struggling to find peace with themselves having seen children, men, women mutilated. That is mental health issues. People witnessing terrible things. People not coping with losing a loved one. That can be seen as mental health issues. Many things lead to mental health issues, but - breaking a nail, finding you lost out on millons of £'s / $'s because you didn't buy a lottery ticket which came up with the winning numbers (your winning numbers) (yes - that happened here in the UK last year), or your favourite football team/baseball team losing a match - THAT IS NOT MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. Life is for living, not for looking for the easy way out.

Carpio

Vagatasa
September 26th, 2023, 02:28 PM
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