Realistic Flow Expectations

[Jeph]

I was messing around with my grip on a Pelikan 150 today trying to adjust my grip to the short (9/16”) grip section. I realized that I have been applying pressure to my nibs. I did not have the full “Death Grip” (as coined on a different board, I called the grip that got all 3 of my fingers on the section “The Claw” originally) but I noticed that my normal grip did apply (very slight but non-zero) pressure to the nib. The M nib Pelikan 150 put down a nice, distinct dark line even with the pen just supported in the web between my thumb and forefinger. It also puts down the same line regardless of the direction of motion. I thought that is the way that things should always be.

Many of my other pens that I thought wrote well barely put down a line at all without any pressure. What I noticed was that the medium nibs that I tried (Peliakn 150, Sheaffer Prelude x2, Pilot Varsity x3) all wrote the same line simply supported as when in my grip. When I tried simply supported fine nibs, 3 of my 4 Sheaffer school cartridge pens, an East German junker and a Wearever Skywriter all put down a distinct line, although slightly thinner than my normal line. Several other F nibbed pens barely made a discernable mark on the paper, including a Pelikan 200, another East German Pen, Sheaffer Craftsman, old Esterbrook and one of the Sheaffer School pens. These lines were very similar to what I was getting from both Faber-Castell EF’s that had identified feed problems.

I know that in general, broader nibs should put down more ink than more narrow nibs. But I would think that any nib, regardless of size, should put down a distinct, consistent ink line with zero pressure applied as long as contact with the paper was being maintained and the nib angle to the paper was reasonably close (+/- 15 deg) to 45 degrees. Is that a reasonable expectation from any fountain pen?

Also, I notice that several pens write beautifully, maybe even a little too wet (ink puddles in the lines,) with a little pressure but become balky on anything other than a downstroke as pressure is reduced to near zero. This implies to me that there is plenty of ink is available in the feed, but there is some sort of dis-function with the capillary action taking the ink to the nib tip. Is that an accurate assessment?

Thank you for your help with my lack of understanding.

[KrazyIvan]

A properly adjusted nib will require zero pressure to make a line on paper. The issue is some manufacturers do not adjust the nibs before shipping them. This is why I learned to adjust my own nibs. Some people prefer to buy pens from retailers that will adjust the pen before it leaves their door (ie Mr. Binder, Mr. Mottishaw to name a couple) Then there is the issue of baby's bottom. That can sometimes be a reason for having to apply pressure to a nib to get a line.

[cedargirl]

Yep. I agree with KrazyIvan and that's why I also learned to adjust the nibs and feeds - it's a handy skill. If you have to apply pressure to get the ink flowing, it reduces the joy of using a fountain pen.
There are many 'how-to' forum and blog posts and videos available on this technique.

Stephen Brown's videos are a good place to start -
Making a pen a bit wetter - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWCGAfBeWM4&list=PLe417XddjbsbAqoAUa56QZd0OfP-bOkYH&index=3
Making a pen wetter in seconds - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig5cTFv4lXo&list=PLe417XddjbsbAqoAUa56QZd0OfP-bOkYH&index=4
Making a pen a bit drier - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vv0eSGR5Jw&list=PLe417XddjbsbAqoAUa56QZd0OfP-bOkYH&index=5

I hope that helps.

[AndyT]

I agree with the above, but perhaps it's worth noting at this point that vintage flexible nibs were generally designed to have the tines touching. All of mine write under their own weight, but that's not quite the same thing as zero pressure.

[cwent2]

Yep. I agree with KrazyIvan and that's why I also learned to adjust the nibs and feeds - it's a handy skill. If you have to apply pressure to get the ink flowing, it reduces the joy of using a fountain pen.
There are many 'how-to' forum and blog posts and videos available on this technique.

Stephen Brown's videos are a good place to start -
Making a pen a bit wetter - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWCGAfBeWM4&list=PLe417XddjbsbAqoAUa56QZd0OfP-bOkYH&index=3
Making a pen wetter in seconds - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig5cTFv4lXo&list=PLe417XddjbsbAqoAUa56QZd0OfP-bOkYH&index=4
Making a pen a bit drier - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vv0eSGR5Jw&list=PLe417XddjbsbAqoAUa56QZd0OfP-bOkYH&index=5

I hope that helps.

Probably goes without saying start practicing or testing on your least expensive pen and one you do not mind messing up beyond recognition.

just saying.

Cw

[Jeph]

...
Probably goes without saying start practicing or testing on your least expensive pen and one you do not mind messing up beyond recognition.

just saying.

Cw

This is the exact reason that I was asking. I have done the stuff in the videos (that I had watched, some multiple times [my girlfriend thinks that I am a SBRE Brown groupie]) many times on my junker pens. I have done it enough that my initial brass shim is almost unuseable to the point I am cutting tiny strips to use. Now that my nemisis was a Pelikan (albeit a cheap(ish) one) I wanted to make sure that I was not trying to fix something that was not actually wrong.

With the encouragement that I was not (the bad kind of) crazy, I kept at the M200 and it finally came to heel. It is so smooth now that I cannot imagine another nib of any material being smoother. In fact, it might be too smooth. When I start writing quickly, the nib can get away from me becasue there is no feedback other than the slightest whisper on the lateral strokes using cheap copy paper. Plus, the M200 F nib makes the same width line as the M150 M nib (as close as I can see at 50x magnification anyway) so I might actually dry the M200 out just slightly.

Of course, now that I have seen the M200 nib come to life I have half a dozen pens that need re-adjusted. I have brought all of my pens home from work and this weekend they will all get some attention.

Oh, I should also mention (in case you had not noticed) that I like using parenthesis. Of course they look better with a flexible nib...:)

[ddustinn]

...
Probably goes without saying start practicing or testing on your least expensive pen and one you do not mind messing up beyond recognition.

just saying.

Cw

This is the exact reason that I was asking. I have done the stuff in the videos (that I had watched, some multiple times [my girlfriend thinks that I am a SBRE Brown groupie]) many times on my junker pens. I have done it enough that my initial brass shim is almost unuseable to the point I am cutting tiny strips to use. Now that my nemisis was a Pelikan (albeit a cheap(ish) one) I wanted to make sure that I was not trying to fix something that was not actually wrong.

With the encouragement that I was not (the bad kind of) crazy, I kept at the M200 and it finally came to heel. It is so smooth now that I cannot imagine another nib of any material being smoother. In fact, it might be too smooth. When I start writing quickly, the nib can get away from me becasue there is no feedback other than the slightest whisper on the lateral strokes using cheap copy paper. Plus, the M200 F nib makes the same width line as the M150 M nib (as close as I can see at 50x magnification anyway) so I might actually dry the M200 out just slightly.

Of course, now that I have seen the M200 nib come to life I have half a dozen pens that need re-adjusted. I have brought all of my pens home from work and this weekend they will all get some attention.

Oh, I should also mention (in case you had not noticed) that I like using parenthesis. Of course they look better with a flexible nib...:)

Semi-related: I totally consider myself to be a SBRE Brown groupie.