Biden and the Bible

[kazoolaw]

In his speech addressing the attack on the Kabul airport President Biden said:

“Those who have served through the ages have drawn inspiration from the Book of Isaiah, when the Lord says, “Whom shall I send…who shall go for us?” And the American military has been answering for a long time: “Here am I, Lord. Send me.” “Here I am. Send me.”
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/08/26/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-terror-attack-at-hamid-karzai-international-airport/

Biden’s appeal to Biblical authority is curious, particularly as he doesn’t seem to understand the import of his reference. Taken by itself, Biden uses the language to praise the American military for answering the call to service. But neither combat nor humanitarian aid is the subject of the text. Instead, Isaiah is being sent as a spokesman for God, a prophet:

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”
9 He said, “Go and tell this people:
“‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.[a]
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah+6&version=NIV

“Go and tell…” Not go and fight, not go and rescue, but go and tell this people God’s message. Isaiah is told to be God’s prophet, to speak on God’s behalf. To listeners familiar with the full text of Isaiah Chapter 6 Biden’s quotation struck a discordant note, as being a misreading of the text.

How did this happen, that the speechwriters or Biden got this wrong?

One possibility is that it was a simple mistake. In searching for a catchy phrase someone remembered “Here am I. Send me.” Plugging that phrase into a search engine provided the source and citation and it was plugged into the text of the speech. No one thought to read the verses before and after the quotation to understand it. Neither the team or the President had familiarity with phrase to catch the mistake. It went to the teleprompter and then to the world.

Assuming it was a mistaken use of the text, citing the Bible was not. Referring to the “Book of Isaiah” makes it clear that it was a knowing reference to the Bible. Why would the President rely on the authority of the sacred text of Jews and Christians to bolster his message?

Another possibility is that it was a knowing misuse of the text. If so, that changes consideration for the reference to the Bible from the Biden team not knowing it was taken out of context to knowing and not caring about the portion of the audience that would.

In either case, Biden’s use of Isaiah’s call to be a prophet of God seemed discordant to me.

[724Seney]

With every passing day I am finding more and more Biden voters / supporters who are expressing remorse about what they helped enable to happen.
Such expressions will never be posted here because our cadre of anti-Trumpers haven't got the capacity to admit there is a huge problem with Biden; they remain too obsessed with continuing their anti-Trump rants.

The problem is simple. What now?? Given that Biden's own people are contradicting & criticizing AND that there are some Democrats calling for him to be removed one must look at the "trickle-down" of that scenario, unlikely as it is.........
President Kamela? It is hard to believe that there could be anything worse than what we are now experiencing but that scenario would be way worse. Even the Democrats see this now; VP Harris is desperately looking to find anybody to support her but there are few to none who remain. Even her own staff have bailed.

Ok, then, what would be next?? None other than President Pelosi. OMG!! Enough said.

To all those who went to such great efforts to suppress the well documented & widely acknowledged negative information about Biden, his mental capacity, his record of inexcusably poor judgment and improper his family dealings I have one simple question. Are you happy now???

[Chuck Naill]

Biden sent his son.

[Linger]

I find it so very hard to see that a country of over 330 million inhabitants with a good education system for many, with good economic and social development opportunities for many, with a relatively high level of freedom to chose one’s own life’s destination for many, that such a country can’t come up with a multitude of intelligent, polite, caring, civilized, well spoken, well mannered, inspiring candidates to chose from.

[Chuck Naill]

With every passing day I am finding more and more Biden voters / supporters who are expressing remorse about what they helped enable to happen.
Such expressions will never be posted here because our cadre of anti-Trumpers haven't got the capacity to admit there is a huge problem with Biden; they remain too obsessed with continuing their anti-Trump rants.

The problem is simple. What now?? Given that Biden's own people are contradicting & criticizing AND that there are some Democrats calling for him to be removed one must look at the "trickle-down" of that scenario, unlikely as it is.........
President Kamela? It is hard to believe that there could be anything worse than what we are now experiencing but that scenario would be way worse. Even the Democrats see this now; VP Harris is desperately looking to find anybody to support her but there are few to none who remain. Even her own staff have bailed.

Ok, then, what would be next?? None other than President Pelosi. OMG!! Enough said.

To all those who went to such great efforts to suppress the well documented & widely acknowledged negative information about Biden, his mental capacity, his record of inexcusably poor judgment and improper his family dealings I have one simple question. Are you happy now???

I am personally very happy with my decison not to have ever supported Trump. I have no regret.

Leaving a nation after 20 years is not easy. I was surprised two years ago the negotiations was with the Taliban and not the Afghanistan government. You did't hear much about it, but Pompeo is the one who made the deal. So, leaving would have occured whether Biden or Trump were in office.

More than anything Milley must have been asleep at the wheel as well as other advisors during several administrations.

[724Seney]

With every passing day I am finding more and more Biden voters / supporters who are expressing remorse about what they helped enable to happen.
Such expressions will never be posted here because our cadre of anti-Trumpers haven't got the capacity to admit there is a huge problem with Biden; they remain too obsessed with continuing their anti-Trump rants.

The problem is simple. What now?? Given that Biden's own people are contradicting & criticizing AND that there are some Democrats calling for him to be removed one must look at the "trickle-down" of that scenario, unlikely as it is.........
President Kamela? It is hard to believe that there could be anything worse than what we are now experiencing but that scenario would be way worse. Even the Democrats see this now; VP Harris is desperately looking to find anybody to support her but there are few to none who remain. Even her own staff have bailed.

Ok, then, what would be next?? None other than President Pelosi. OMG!! Enough said.

To all those who went to such great efforts to suppress the well documented & widely acknowledged negative information about Biden, his mental capacity, his record of inexcusably poor judgment and improper his family dealings I have one simple question. Are you happy now???

I am personally very happy with my decison not to have ever supported Trump. I have no regret.

Leaving a nation after 20 years is not easy. I was surprised two years ago the negotiations was with the Taliban and not the Afghanistan government. You did't hear much about it, but Pompeo is the one who made the deal. So, leaving would have occured whether Biden or Trump were in office.

More than anything Milley must have been asleep at the wheel as well as other advisors during several administrations.

You may have missed it but the question was not whether you were happy with the decision(s) you made to not support Trump. It was about whether or not you were happy with the outcome you got by supporting Biden.

I think the one thing we ALL agree upon was the fact that we would have left Afghanistan regardless of whether Trump or Biden was President. That's a no brainer. The real issue is whether it would have been this ugly and bungled so badly by Trump (or Obama or Bush). You'll never admit it, but the answer is hell no!

Biden's advisors were not asleep at the wheel, they are on the record stating they urged him to not go about the exit in the manner he did........both military and senior civilian advisors have said so.....he, as always, did not listen and took the wrong approach. This is on him and not on his advisors.

So, let's leave Trump out of this thread and focus instead upon our current President. Are you happy with him? Are you proud to have voted for him??

[Chuck Naill]

Milley said he was surprised.

A mature person understands that their support of a person is not predicated upon always being happy with every action. To play the opposite is a fools game.

Trump cannot be left out because you want him left out for he brokered the deal.

Don’t be a dumb ass, kaz.

[kazoolaw]

Chuck, 724Seney-
I started this topic with a quote from Biden, and specific points, in an attempt to focus on specific questions to avoid generic pro- and anti-Biden discussion.
I encourage your attempts to stay on point.

[kazoolaw]

Milley said he was surprised.

A mature person understands that their support of a person is not predicated upon always being happy with every action. To play the opposite is a fools game.

Trump cannot be left out because you want him left out for he brokered the deal.

Don’t be a dumb ass, kaz.

I may be, but Milley, Trump, deal brokering, and your point all belong in a different topic.
Did you have a comment about Biden's use of Isaiah?

[Chuck Naill]

Milley said he was surprised.

A mature person understands that their support of a person is not predicated upon always being happy with every action. To play the opposite is a fools game.

Trump cannot be left out because you want him left out for he brokered the deal.

Don’t be a dumb ass, kaz.

I may be, but Milley, Trump, deal brokering, and your point all belong in a different topic.
Did you have a comment about Biden's use of Isaiah?


I’ve got decades of experience of people’s Biblical interpretations. As an aside, I’ve never read that you are concerned about Trumps use of Christianity.

The passage in question revolves around personal acknowledgment of being unworthy. A personal witness is God’s glory and his sin.

So, I have to ask why you’re more concerned about one man and little concerned about another.

I’m game if you are.😉😉

[kazoolaw]

Chuck,
Trump's not here.
Start a thread on Trump and Christianity and I'll see you there.
Would you say Biden was acknowledging his own unworthiness and sin, or that of the American military?

[Chuck Naill]

Chuck,
Trump's not here.
Start a thread on Trump and Christianity and I'll see you there.
Would you say Biden was acknowledging his own unworthiness and sin, or that of the American military?


Stop pretending you’re a moderator, bro.

Biden is catholic and I suspect he has a history of Christianity.

[kazoolaw]

Biden is catholic and I suspect he has a history of Christianity.

Do you think that explains him not understanding the context of Isaiah 6?

[Chuck Naill]

Biden is catholic and I suspect he has a history of Christianity.

Do you think that explains him not understanding the context of Isaiah 6?

Well, do you mean your interpretation of the passage?

Scripture is abused all the time.

Are you sure you want to go here? I’ll blister your ass if you do.

[kazoolaw]

Chuck,
I'll go with your interpretation from post #10.
How does that fit with soldiers going to war?
q

[Boston Brian]

An example of a White House speech writer liking the sound of the words, and taking a text out of its real context and making it a pretext for saying what he wants it to say!

[TSherbs]

This is on him and not on his advisors. Yes, I agree. And it was an error of judgment (although I don't understand all of the particulars).



So, let's leave Trump out of this thread and focus instead upon our current President. Are you happy with him? Are you proud to have voted for him??

1) yes, he's not Trump and he is trying to do things that I agree with
2) yes, he's not Trump and he is trying to do things that I agree with. But please understand, I am "proud" of every vote that I have made since I was 18, in every election at every level. The pride comes from participating in one of the greatest of human activities on the planet: representative democracy.

[kazoolaw]

TS,
Any comment on the topic itself?

[Chuck Naill]

Chuck,
I'll go with your interpretation from post #10.
How does that fit with soldiers going to war?
q

I don't see that it does, but for Biden a case could be made that since his son went and he, as a father, had to struggle through the possible loss. So, it fits in that context that a father would suggest that he is no better to send a child than anyone else. Being the VP didn't provide him with a pass. The Isaiah passage does have a political context.

Conflict is a constant Biblical theme. We see the Nathan having to tell David that he was "that man". Makng horrible mistake is a thing people can do with power. Owning those mistakes is what makes them legendary. Having to capacity to repent is rare, but when it occurs, great healing is possible.

It has been an issue with my over the years how people interpret a passage for their own interests including religious leaders and politicans. Not to change your OP, but it has bothered me to see people like Jerry Falwell, Jr and Franklin Graham contaminate themselves with politics and suggest that the scriptures support them. For me, that is a greater stretch than Biden's interpretaton, but we can disagree and still continue.

[kazoolaw]

Chuck,
Your first phrase, "I don't see that it does..." is right on the mark. The remainder is a stretch to let the speechwriters and the speechmaker off the hook.
Your second paragraph is true. I hold out little hope of repentance. I think such a concept has little or no traction in the secular world.
Third paragraph: misuse of Scripture is not limited by religious or political affiliation.
Have you found it curious, Chuck, that those who clamor for a wall between religion and government haven't commented on Biden's quote?

[Chuck Naill]

Chuck,
Your first phrase, "I don't see that it does..." is right on the mark. The remainder is a stretch to let the speechwriters and the speechmaker off the hook.
Your second paragraph is true. I hold out little hope of repentance. I think such a concept has little or no traction in the secular world.
Third paragraph: misuse of Scripture is not limited by religious or political affiliation.
Have you found it curious, Chuck, that those who clamor for a wall between religion and government haven't commented on Biden's quote?


Kazoo, I’ve been noticing so many misuse scripture for so long that your issue with Biden seems tame or much to do about nothing. This makes your concern appear unbalanced since you’re not taking the same route to criticize others. Singling out Biden make it appear your not well read or keeping up. Like I said, his interpretation has standing as a father. I would not fault a parent who used the text in this manner.

For example, I could never vote for a person like Trump because of my respect for what scripture says Jesus said, for no other reasons that do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And, I don’t think your could marshal a defense otherwise.

Of course , Jerry Falwell JR was found out and Franklin is a rebel without a cause. Would he actually a rebel. He sowed his oats and came back to run a ministry his daddy built, same as Trump .

So, I don’t understand your concern.

[kazoolaw]

Biden's the president, in the news misquoting Scripture. Don't assume I give anyone a pass. Start a topic on the others and I'll join you there.
P.S. Are your references to Falwell and Franklin "whataboutism?" ;>)

[Chuck Naill]

Biden's the president, in the news misquoting Scripture. Don't assume I give anyone a pass. Start a topic on the others and I'll join you there.
P.S. Are your references to Falwell and Franklin "whataboutism?" ;>)

I’d be interested is who else you’ve thought you didn’t give a pass. Does lying contradict scripture? Does not saying your are sorry contradict scripture?Is it scripture to grab women by their genitals contradict scripture? If not, you’re not worth my effort in discussing.


I agree. Franklin and Falwell are what about this. It came to mind because you’d expect them to be more acquainted with exegetical biblical interpretation.

[kazoolaw]

Biden's the president, in the news misquoting Scripture. Don't assume I give anyone a pass. Start a topic on the others and I'll join you there.
P.S. Are your references to Falwell and Franklin "whataboutism?" ;>)

I’d be interested is who else you’ve thought you didn’t give a pass. Does lying contradict scripture? Does not saying your are sorry contradict scripture?Is it scripture to grab women by their genitals contradict scripture? If not, you’re not worth my effort in discussing.


I agree. Franklin and Falwell are what about this. It came to mind because you’d expect them to be more acquainted with exegetical biblical interpretation.

Yes. No. As I understand the next sentence, No.
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
"All" is pretty inclusive.
Be well.

[Chuck Naill]

It’s not hard to understand. If you want to evade and play games, go somewhere else.

[kazoolaw]

It’s not hard to understand. If you want to evade and play games, go somewhere else.

"Is it scripture to grab women by their genitals contradict scripture? "
You thinking this is a well written sentence may be the problem.
G'night.

P.S. "Stop pretending you’re a moderator, bro."
Who said that?
Answer in Post 12.

[Chuck Naill]

It’s not hard to understand. If you want to evade and play games, go somewhere else.

"Is it scripture to grab women by their genitals contradict scripture? "
You thinking this is a well written sentence may be the problem.
G'night.

P.S. "Stop pretending you’re a moderator, bro."
Who said that?
Answer in Post 12.


"Treat older women as you would your mother, and treat younger women with all purity as you would your own sisters." 1 Timothy 5:2. So, to answer your question, Trump did violate scripture by grabing females by their genitals. In your private moments, are you actually outraged that Trump said this. Compared to Biden's use of the scripture you posted, which is the greater infraction?

[dneal]

My wife is older than me. I certainly don't treat her 'as I would my mother'. Do I violate scripture?

Not my responsibility as the reader to interpret the clearly asinine, and obviously problematic writing by Timothy. Maybe that's why it's "first" Timothy. A first go. A rough draft that wasn't intended for publication.

[kazoolaw]

"Treat older women as you would your mother, and treat younger women with all purity as you would your own sisters." 1 Timothy 5:2. So, to answer your question, Trump did violate scripture by grabing females by their genitals. In your private moments, are you actually outraged that Trump said this. Compared to Biden's use of the scripture you posted, which is the greater infraction?

No, I don't defend Trump's comment or that action. Yes, it violates 1 Tim 5:2
I will trust God to judge the greater sin.
Proverbs 30:6

[Chuck Naill]

"Treat older women as you would your mother, and treat younger women with all purity as you would your own sisters." 1 Timothy 5:2. So, to answer your question, Trump did violate scripture by grabing females by their genitals. In your private moments, are you actually outraged that Trump said this. Compared to Biden's use of the scripture you posted, which is the greater infraction?

No, I don't defend Trump's comment or that action. Yes, it violates 1 Tim 5:2
I will trust God to judge the greater sin.
Proverbs 30:6


Good to hear you hold Trump accountable. I’ve never understood how people give him a slide when he’s obviously highly contradictory to which they hold as truth.

If you don’t like Joe’s interpretation, that’s fine. We can debate the passage.

[guyy]

Someone took something from the bible out of context? Used it for their own political ends?

People have been doing that for thousands of years. What else is new?

[Inkflow]

Careful not to engage in “whataboutism.” It happens when someone points out a flaw in your candidate, and instead of engaging on that point, the response is “Oh yeah? Well, what about what your candidate did?”

We all know both sides have wrapped themselves in mom, the flag, the Bible and apple pie in questionable ways.

But the OP was talking about Biden on one specific issue. A credible answer is not pointing out what Trump did. It would be an admission that Biden has disappointed on a couple of issues. Then you can say you still had rather Biden won than Trump. Or you could say he hasn’t disappointed you at all and you’re still glad he won, Biblical interpretation notwithstanding.

[Chuck Naill]

That would be true except a reasonable interpretation would be consistant with Biden's use. For example, If I used the law of reciprocity aka The Golden Rule to support Black Lives Matter, that is a reasonable interpretation, but others may disagree.

[kazoolaw]

Someone took something from the bible out of context? Used it for their own political ends?

People have been doing that for thousands of years. What else is new?

Or is it Dems crossing their line between church and state to call people to God?
Consider this faith-based appeal, which follows the Prez's call to speak on behalf of God as Isaiah did:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/york-gov-hochul-tells-christian-221200535.html

[Chuck Naill]

Biden is steeped i his religion.

[kazoolaw]

"Steeped" meaning what, exactly?

[Chuck Naill]

https://www.ncronline.org/news/people/how-joe-bidens-catholic-roots-have-shaped-his-public-life

[Bold2013]

To miss use Isaiah 6 like that shows his disregard for our thrice holy God

[Chuck Naill]

Oh God!!

[kazoolaw]

“There is the waste of children that we don’t want welcome,” [the Pope] said. “It is really a murder.”
“Is it right to eliminate, to take a human life to solve a problem? Is it right to hire a hitman to solve a problem? That’s what abortion is.”
-Pope Francis (emphasis added)

The law “unleashes unconstitutional chaos and empowers self-anointed enforcers to have devastating impacts. Complete strangers will now be empowered to inject themselves in the most private and personal health decisions faced by women,” Biden said.
-Biden

Apparently not that steeped.

[Chuck Naill]

I wouldn’t hold Biden to a standard that you would be unable to meet yourself. You wouldn’t want to be forced to take a medication or receive a form of healthcare without your consent. Yet, you sound like you would force a person to go through a pregnancy they do not want.

Now you have spent several pages attempting to say Biden didn’t interpret to scriptures as you would prefer. In light of your opinion of forcing women, how do you square the one idea of “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”?

This all comes across as a Pharisaic mentality as well as hypocritical. I doubt you could measure up to your own standards.

That said, I don’t need to defend Biden to anyone. He was the only rational choice I had.

.

[kazoolaw]

I agree Chuck, nether Biden nor I should endorse killing of humans.

And neither of us should should claim to be devout members of anything and blithely ignore the infallible head of that group.

See, you and I can agree.

[Bold2013]

Of course we can’t live up to the standards set by God. But thankfully He made a way thru the finished work of His son. That’s the majesty of the gospel. He saves us from His wraith and our hypocritical wicked selves to Himself by Himself.

[Chuck Naill]

I agree Chuck, nether Biden nor I should endorse killing of humans.

And neither of us should should claim to be devout members of anything and blithely ignore the infallible head of that group.

See, you and I can agree.


I am very pleased we agree, and was actually reviewing my post and knew you could complain that I was also being hypocritical because of my critical posts regarding Trump. Being curious, I looked up whether saying you are sorry is a sign of weakness because we know Trump chooses to never or rarely admit wrong.

His Access Hollywood apology, "This was locker room banter, a private conversation that took place many years ago. Bill Clinton has said far worse to me on the golf course - not even close. I apologize if anyone was offended.” First thoughts is that it was not an apology. He never said he was wrong and he participated in what about this in referring to Clinton.

We are all flawed people capable of doing much harm to others and especially to those we love the most. Being able to admit wrong means we are in touch with ourselves. If you want to use a Biblical reference, the word repentance is a good as I can think of. The Greek word metanoeo indicates a change of the mind. I like to think of it as making a "u turn" where one is not only taking responsibilty of a wrong done, but also intends to change. While Biden often apologizes, he seems to make the same mistake by not being able to control his tongue.

The lesson for me comes from the writings of Paul in the NT, "For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There’s no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death."

I no longer consider myself a religous person, but I still consider the scriptures of great value and the teachings and example of Jesus as a practical guide for life and relavance. I suppose I call myself a disciple rather than a member.

[Chuck Naill]

Of course we can’t live up to the standards set by God. But thankfully He made a way thru the finished work of His son. That’s the majesty of the gospel. He saves us from His wraith and our hypocritical wicked selves to Himself by Himself.

My only issue is that those who believe this don't necessarily have to be sorry or act in a way that is consistant with what Jesus taught. Their response is just that they are a sinner saved by grace. If you're going to be a follower, there should be some evidence you actually follow.

Modern Evangelicals are woefully ignorant or choose to ignore the scriptures they claim are the word of God. They also are followers of preachers than followers of Jesus. When you consider the examples of Jerry Falwell, Jr. and Franklin Graham, believers could do better.

While we can choose to forgive Trump, that does not mean we support and follow. Relationship is a choice and not a requirement of forgiviness.