Thread for snipe, snark, and ad hominem grandstanding

[TSherbs]

Since so many threads in this forum are now devolving into ad hominem exchanges between posters, I thought that perhaps a thread dedicated to this pursuit might funnel off the vitriol and let other threads have a better chance of avoiding such levels of toxicity. Here's hoping!

[Chuck Naill]

Ad hominem exchanges begin with someone who has run out of ammunition. What is worse is having inaccurate quotes and misinformation. We owe it to the forum to at least be honest with our posts. As Harry Truman noted, people say I give them hell. I don't give them hell; I tell them the truth and they think it's hell.

If someone doesn't like woke or CRT, lets force them to say why? What's wrong with being aware? When did that go out of style?

[dneal]

Ad hominem exchanges begin with someone who has run out of ammunition. What is worse is having inaccurate quotes and misinformation. We owe it to the forum to at least be honest with our posts. As Harry Truman noted, people say I give them hell. I don't give them hell; I tell them the truth and they think it's hell.

If someone doesn't like woke or CRT, lets force them to say why? What's wrong with being aware? When did that go out of style?

Precisely the lack of self-awareness I was pointing out earlier, Chuck.

one example: You are the one who resorts to ad hominem. Remember when I was responding to your posts by listing the logical fallacies? Want links?

[724Seney]

Ad hominem exchanges begin with someone who has run out of ammunition. What is worse is having inaccurate quotes and misinformation. We owe it to the forum to at least be honest with our posts. As Harry Truman noted, people say I give them hell. I don't give them hell; I tell them the truth and they think it's hell.

If someone doesn't like woke or CRT, lets force them to say why? What's wrong with being aware? When did that go out of style?

Precisely the lack of self-awareness I was pointing out earlier, Chuck.

one example: You are the one who resorts to ad hominem. Remember when I was responding to your posts by listing the logical fallacies? Want links?

Spot on @dneal! These two guys live in their own private version of "La La Land!"

[Chuck Naill]

Actually "la la land" moved. Since you were driving your $80k pickup truck listening to Tucky, you may not have noticed. I know you think your shit don't stink. I wish I could just call you a fucking dumbass, but that wouldn't be nice.

[Chuck Naill]

Okay, Kaz drives standing up.

That said, the contrast of people, just like us ,taking up arms against Putin, with those here with their panties in a wad over masks and vaccines is too much to dismiss.

[Chuck Naill]

I actually think the libs would pull out a can of whoop ass faster than the neocons. The neocons are chicken hawks or, "we'll send your kids, but not our kids. Consider George Bush's twins. Both are alive and well.

[Bold2013]

Ad hominem exchanges begin with someone who has run out of ammunition. What is worse is having inaccurate quotes and misinformation. We owe it to the forum to at least be honest with our posts. As Harry Truman noted, people say I give them hell. I don't give them hell; I tell them the truth and they think it's hell.

If someone doesn't like woke or CRT, lets force them to say why? What's wrong with being aware? When did that go out of style?

I don’t like CRT because it is anti Biblical (which includes Marxism).

[Bold2013]

But the woke trend is already starting to fade. Wonder what the next pagan trend will be…

[TSherbs]

... Wonder what the next pagan trend will be…

Maybe something pagan like consuming the body and blood of one's spiritual leader in ritual with chanting and prayer?

[Chuck Naill]

Ad hominem exchanges begin with someone who has run out of ammunition. What is worse is having inaccurate quotes and misinformation. We owe it to the forum to at least be honest with our posts. As Harry Truman noted, people say I give them hell. I don't give them hell; I tell them the truth and they think it's hell.

If someone doesn't like woke or CRT, lets force them to say why? What's wrong with being aware? When did that go out of style?

I don’t like CRT because it is anti Biblical (which includes Marxism).

Therein lies the problem. You don't know bible. You know what you've been taught.

[Bold2013]

Do this in remembrance of Me (we do it cause we are told to by Jesus himself. Note that if you are referring to transubstantiation (communion is actual blood and blood) agreed that it’s not biblical)

TS I don’t think you answered my genuine question in another thread. Do you mind me asking what denomination your father was a minister with?

[Bold2013]

Ad hominem exchanges begin with someone who has run out of ammunition. What is worse is having inaccurate quotes and misinformation. We owe it to the forum to at least be honest with our posts. As Harry Truman noted, people say I give them hell. I don't give them hell; I tell them the truth and they think it's hell.

If someone doesn't like woke or CRT, lets force them to say why? What's wrong with being aware? When did that go out of style?

I don’t like CRT because it is anti Biblical (which includes Marxism).

Therein lies the problem. You don't know bible. You know what you've been taught.

I know enough to realize I can’t pick and chose from it.

[Chuck Naill]

Okay, know some verses, Bold2013. It seems you know words but lack the import.

[TSherbs]

Do this in remembrance of Me (we do it cause we are told to by Jesus himself. Note that if you are referring to transubstantiation (communion is actual blood and blood) agreed that it’s not biblical)

TS I don’t think you answered my genuine question in another thread. Do you mind me asking what denomination your father was a minister with?

I know the reference, Bold. I am pointing out the ritual's pagan roots. The eucharist is not the first time in human history that we consumed the material of the bodies of spiritual leaders, even in ritual. Jesus doesn't come up with that idea out of nowhere.

[Bold2013]

Okay, Kaz drives standing up.

That said, the contrast of people, just like us ,taking up arms against Putin, with those here with their panties in a wad over masks and vaccines is too much to dismiss.

If Trump was still president Putin would have never started this war (and Afghanistan wouldn’t have been captured by extremists).

[Chuck Naill]

Okay, Kaz drives standing up.

That said, the contrast of people, just like us ,taking up arms against Putin, with those here with their panties in a wad over masks and vaccines is too much to dismiss.

If Trump was still president Putin would have never started this war (and Afghanistan wouldn’t have been captured by extremists).

God bless America. Trump was the author of the withdraw. Lets say you and I give a party and I make the preparations. I have to go out of town, and I leave you in charge. Are you going to take the blame if you run out of food? Didn't think so.

If Trump was president, Putin would do the same except the US military would be handing out popcorn on the border.

[Bold2013]

Okay, know some verses, Bold2013. It seems you know words but lack the import.

Continuing to sound a bit ad hominem, eh

[Chuck Naill]

Okay, know some verses, Bold2013. It seems you know words but lack the import.

Continuing to sound a bit ad hominem, eh

Not at all. I assume you are a decent person. You just seem to struggle with how to support Jesus and Trump simultaneously without looking foolish.

Wasn't you that called the truckers patriots? Would Jesus have done the same. If you think so, support Bibilcally.

You are a bit smug in your scripture posting as if everyone is going to agree with your interpretations.

[TSherbs]

If Trump was still president Putin would have never started this war (and Afghanistan wouldn’t have been captured by extremists).

Hypothesis contrary to fact.

[TSherbs]

Oh, my stepfather was a minister in the Reformed Church in Pennsylvania.

[Bold2013]

Okay, Kaz drives standing up.

That said, the contrast of people, just like us ,taking up arms against Putin, with those here with their panties in a wad over masks and vaccines is too much to dismiss.

If Trump was still president Putin would have never started this war (and Afghanistan wouldn’t have been captured by extremists).

God bless America. Trump was the author of the withdraw. Lets say you and I give a party and I make the preparations. I have to go out of town, and I leave you in charge. Are you going to take the blame if you run out of food? Didn't think so.

If Trump was president, Putin would do the same except the US military would be handing out popcorn on the border.


Kinda like VP Harris handing out popcorn to unvaccinated/untested illegal immigrants at our southern boarder?

[Bold2013]

Oh, my stepfather was a minister in the Reformed Church in Pennsylvania.

Nice

[Chuck Naill]

Okay, Kaz drives standing up.

That said, the contrast of people, just like us ,taking up arms against Putin, with those here with their panties in a wad over masks and vaccines is too much to dismiss.

If Trump was still president Putin would have never started this war (and Afghanistan wouldn’t have been captured by extremists).

God bless America. Trump was the author of the withdraw. Lets say you and I give a party and I make the preparations. I have to go out of town, and I leave you in charge. Are you going to take the blame if you run out of food? Didn't think so.

If Trump was president, Putin would do the same except the US military would be handing out popcorn on the border.


Kinda like VP Harris handing out popcorn to unvaccinated/untested illegal immigrants at our southern boarder?

Nice nothing burger...LOL!!

[Chuck Naill]

I guess no one got it.

[Chip]

Not sure this poo flinging rises to the level of ad hominem.

With respect to our constant adversaries: Duo canes diversi sed similes esse possunt.

[dneal]

Laws can be altered or amended. Or ignored. or misapplied, or misunderstood.

Or misspelled!!! ROFL!!!


"at a glane" being the issue.

I'm thinking of a midget Chuck on his fantasy island yelling "The GLANE!!!", "The GLANE!!!" LOL!!!

[dneal]

@dneal wokiening!! LOL

"wokiening"?

WTF does that even mean!!! LOL!!!

[dneal]

People could die in the US if TRump is elected and people have died due to disinformation from people like you regarding the virus. Why such a sudden concern from you? Damn hypocrite!! What a complete fucking ass you are @dneal.

Die if TRump is elected? Wow, I knew TRump lived in your head, but I didn't realize how bad your affliction was.

Disinformation? Like don't wear a mask, now wear a mask, I said don't wear a mask because I wanted to make sure there was enough for hospital staff?

Disinformation? Like telling everyone if we get to x percent vaccination; we'll lift restrictions. Oh, wait; now it's x+ percentage!

Disinformation? Like calling actual epidemiologists (which Fauci isn't) "fringe epidemiologists"?

Disinformation? Like the CDC withholding vaccine data? Even your beloved NYT is on to Fauci! LOL

New York Times: The CDC Isn't Publishing Large Portions of the Covid Data it Collected (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/health/covid-cdc-data.html)

You've been duped! ROFL!!!

Oh, and "sudden concern" from me? I've always been concerned with minimizing loss of and quality of life. That's why I raised the question of economic damage. Starving children worldwide because Pharma reps like you are only worried about their 401k! What a complete fucking ass you are @ChuckNaill!!! ROFL!!!!

[Chip]

Wowser. Your cup runneth over.

https://i.imgur.com/0Pj2VAM.jpg

[Chip]

"His form is ungainly—his intellect small—"
(So the Bellman would often remark)
"But his courage is perfect! And that, after all,
Is the thing that one needs with a Snark."

[calamus]

It is interesting that in a thread devoted to vitriolic bad behavior and name-calling, Chuck Naill is the hands-down leader in number of posts, number of insults, and most delusional posts.

Here's your award, Chuck: https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2017/9-11/sCQB4Eq1Bj-6.png

[Chuck Naill]

There is no indication that Trump would have prevented Putin. Putin wanted Trump in office, and some say he'd become Putin's puppet.

Plus, Trump had so weakened NATO, that I doubt he could have brought both European and Asian nations together. Trump did exactly what Putin wanted, a weaken NATO.

Trump is the one would made the deal to leave Afghanistan.

Biden is being praised with quick communication and bullding consensus. Not bad for Sleepy Joe.

Additionally, I do not think Trump could have gone to Poland with the leadership, honesty, and empathy of Biden.

[Chuck Naill]

So, was thinking about Biden's statement yesterday and remembering Reagan's famous "tear this wall down".

[724Seney]

Ok, let's see how long it takes our resident three stooges to start screaming that Victor Davis Hanson is a white supremacist, racist, misogynist, etc., etc. :dance3:

FYI, guys, this scholar (unlike the three of you idiots) knows what he is talking about.
Read it and weep. Then go ahead and post your usual, reflex, defamatory nonsense.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/opinion-columns/victor-davis-hanson/victor-davis-hanson-the-real-reset-is-coming-2551955/

[Chuck Naill]

Ok, let's see how long it takes our resident three stooges to start screaming that Victor Davis Hanson is a white supremacist, racist, misogynist, etc., etc. :dance3:

FYI, guys, this scholar (unlike the three of you idiots) knows what he is talking about.
Read it and weep. Then go ahead and post your usual, reflex, defamatory nonsense.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/opinion-columns/victor-davis-hanson/victor-davis-hanson-the-real-reset-is-coming-2551955/
Is it because he says what you already think? Lol!!

[Chuck Naill]

He said in the book I’m reading that Trump won because of white grievances. Do you agree?

He is not, IMHO, the same style or historian as Snyder.

[dneal]

68509

[724Seney]

Is it because he says what you already think? Lol!!

Something which, of course, you and your lemming friends would NEVER do. Right Chuck?

[Chip]

Hanson is bunkered in the Hoover Institution, a fascist think-tank oddly situated at Stanford. When I was a postgraduate fellow there, I would pass by the building and often spit on the doorknob.

In other words, he's well-paid to spew his anti-everything-decent garbage, which presently passes as "conservative" thought.

(Since when is the Las Vegas Review-Journal an academic publication?)

[724Seney]

Hanson is bunkered in the Hoover Institution, a fascist think-tank oddly situated at Stanford. When I was a postgraduate fellow there, I would pass by the building and often spit on the doorknob.

In other words, he's well-paid to spew his anti-everything-decent garbage, which presently passes as "conservative" thought.

(Since when is the Las Vegas Review-Journal an academic publication?)

One thing you three stooges have in common (beside all being morons) is that you are all such "class acts."

[Chuck Naill]

Read historians and decide for yourself.@724

[724Seney]

Read historians and decide for yourself.@724

I've got a better idea Chuck.
Let's agree to come back to Hanson's op-ed on Wednesday November 9th.......
America has had it with you and your far left, progressive type. We're taking our Country back.

As for your garbage about Biden and his leadership, get real!! Every time that demented fool opens his mouth he gets us into more & more trouble on the international front. The staffers who carry the pooper scoopers and walk behind him shoveling it up have been working overtime this week........

[Chuck Naill]

Read historians and decide for yourself.@724

I've got a better idea Chuck.
Let's agree to come back to Hanson's op-ed on Wednesday November 9th.......
America has had it with you and your far left, progressive type. We're taking our Country back.

As for your garbage about Biden and his leadership, get real!! Every time that demented fool opens his mouth he gets us into more & more trouble on the international front. The staffers who carry the pooper scoopers and walk behind him shoveling it up have been working overtime this week........

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?

[724Seney]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?
YES

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?
LONG BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME I BELIEVED IT SHOULD BE "MAJORITY RULES" AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULD BE DISBANDED. AND, I'D BE FINE WITH IT NOW....... BUT NOT THE WAY THE RADICAL LEFT WANTED TO GO ABOUT DOING IT.

[Chuck Naill]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?
YES

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?
LONG BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME I BELIEVED IT SHOULD BE "MAJORITY RULES" AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULD BE DISBANDED. AND, I'D BE FINE WITH IT NOW....... BUT NOT THE WAY THE RADICAL LEFT WANTED TO GO ABOUT DOING IT.

If I understand, "taking your country back" is just having Trump in office? You are not referring to a previous decade or era?

Does it concern you at all that Trump lost two elections using popular vote? This tells me the majority of Americans disagree with you. How does it make you feel that you are in the minority? If you are the minority, who should change? Or, to put it a different way, would you want to live in a place where the minority got their way over the majority?

Specifically, does it matter to you that more people have opportunities to have a good life, whether you understand or agree with them? Do you think you know what is best for others than they know for themselves? Do you feel you are superior to some?

In my opinion, whoever runs for President should bring American's together rather than using cultural differences. The world needs everyone and agreeing every time is not even essential to be a great nation.

[724Seney]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?
YES

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?
LONG BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME I BELIEVED IT SHOULD BE "MAJORITY RULES" AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULD BE DISBANDED. AND, I'D BE FINE WITH IT NOW....... BUT NOT THE WAY THE RADICAL LEFT WANTED TO GO ABOUT DOING IT.

If I understand, "taking your country back" is just having Trump in office? You are not referring to a previous decade or era?

Does it concern you at all that Trump lost two elections using popular vote? This tells me the majority of Americans disagree with you. How does it make you feel that you are in the minority? If you are the minority, who should change? Or, to put it a different way, would you want to live in a place where the minority got their way over the majority?

Specifically, does it matter to you that more people have opportunities to have a good life, whether you understand or agree with them? Do you think you know what is best for others than they know for themselves? Do you feel you are superior to some?

I was foolish to let you pull me into what you described as a "discussion" Chuck.
I think I was pretty clear about how I feel about having Trump back in office. But, it didn't fit into your misguided rhetoric and so you ignored it. As usual.

You don't know how to have a discussion. All you know how to do is to spew forth totally nonsensical, illogical, toxic comments all of which fit your twisted purpose.

You are living the life of a lemming. Biden is on the brink of getting us killed pal. And, for what?? The BS that you think represents reality???

[Chuck Naill]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?
YES

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?
LONG BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME I BELIEVED IT SHOULD BE "MAJORITY RULES" AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULD BE DISBANDED. AND, I'D BE FINE WITH IT NOW....... BUT NOT THE WAY THE RADICAL LEFT WANTED TO GO ABOUT DOING IT.

If I understand, "taking your country back" is just having Trump in office? You are not referring to a previous decade or era?

Does it concern you at all that Trump lost two elections using popular vote? This tells me the majority of Americans disagree with you. How does it make you feel that you are in the minority? If you are the minority, who should change? Or, to put it a different way, would you want to live in a place where the minority got their way over the majority?

Specifically, does it matter to you that more people have opportunities to have a good life, whether you understand or agree with them? Do you think you know what is best for others than they know for themselves? Do you feel you are superior to some?

I was foolish to let you pull me into what you described as a "discussion" Chuck.
I think I was pretty clear about how I feel about having Trump back in office. But, it didn't fit into your misguided rhetoric and so you ignored it. As usual.

You don't know how to have a discussion. All you know how to do is to spew forth totally nonsensical, illogical, toxic comments all of which fit your twisted purpose.

You are living the life of a lemming. Biden is on the brink of getting us killed pal. And, for what?? The BS that you think represents reality???

It sounds like you want your country back, but you haven't come to know what that means, or what it would look like. I mean,you haven't provided one thing, except Trump back in office, for which you would like to see?

Biden is doing nothing George Bush and Ronald Reagan didn't do. Neither of these praised Russian or other autocrats. Neither claimed to be best friends or exchanging love letters with a dictator. I agree with Hanson that Trump did it to himself.

[724Seney]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?
YES

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?
LONG BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME I BELIEVED IT SHOULD BE "MAJORITY RULES" AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULD BE DISBANDED. AND, I'D BE FINE WITH IT NOW....... BUT NOT THE WAY THE RADICAL LEFT WANTED TO GO ABOUT DOING IT.

If I understand, "taking your country back" is just having Trump in office? You are not referring to a previous decade or era?

Does it concern you at all that Trump lost two elections using popular vote? This tells me the majority of Americans disagree with you. How does it make you feel that you are in the minority? If you are the minority, who should change? Or, to put it a different way, would you want to live in a place where the minority got their way over the majority?

Specifically, does it matter to you that more people have opportunities to have a good life, whether you understand or agree with them? Do you think you know what is best for others than they know for themselves? Do you feel you are superior to some?

I was foolish to let you pull me into what you described as a "discussion" Chuck.
I think I was pretty clear about how I feel about having Trump back in office. But, it didn't fit into your misguided rhetoric and so you ignored it. As usual.

You don't know how to have a discussion. All you know how to do is to spew forth totally nonsensical, illogical, toxic comments all of which fit your twisted purpose.

You are living the life of a lemming. Biden is on the brink of getting us killed pal. And, for what?? The BS that you think represents reality???

It sounds like you want your country back, but you haven't come to know what that means, or what it would look like. I mean,you haven't provided one thing, except Trump back in office, for which you would like to see?

Biden is doing nothing George Bush and Ronald Reagan didn't do. Neither of these praised Russian or other autocrats. Neither claimed to be best friends or exchanging love letters with a dictator. I agree with Hanson that Trump did it to himself.

How can anyone possibly be so stupid?
Or so impossibly prejudiced.

I know as a Drug Rep you are trained to only say & believe what corporate tells you to say & believe. Your livelihood depends upon your willingness to live in a lie. But I am not a doctor not is this a visit to the doctor's office. I am not interested in your stale donuts and I am most certainly not interested in buying what you are trying to sell.

Good gosh man, you are not even willing to read what I have written; you mind has already been made up as to what you are going to say!! (Why am I surprised, this is right out of Drug Rep training 101)
Please show me where I have said I want Trump back in office.

[Chuck Naill]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?
YES

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?
LONG BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME I BELIEVED IT SHOULD BE "MAJORITY RULES" AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULD BE DISBANDED. AND, I'D BE FINE WITH IT NOW....... BUT NOT THE WAY THE RADICAL LEFT WANTED TO GO ABOUT DOING IT.

If I understand, "taking your country back" is just having Trump in office? You are not referring to a previous decade or era?

Does it concern you at all that Trump lost two elections using popular vote? This tells me the majority of Americans disagree with you. How does it make you feel that you are in the minority? If you are the minority, who should change? Or, to put it a different way, would you want to live in a place where the minority got their way over the majority?

Specifically, does it matter to you that more people have opportunities to have a good life, whether you understand or agree with them? Do you think you know what is best for others than they know for themselves? Do you feel you are superior to some?

I was foolish to let you pull me into what you described as a "discussion" Chuck.
I think I was pretty clear about how I feel about having Trump back in office. But, it didn't fit into your misguided rhetoric and so you ignored it. As usual.

You don't know how to have a discussion. All you know how to do is to spew forth totally nonsensical, illogical, toxic comments all of which fit your twisted purpose.

You are living the life of a lemming. Biden is on the brink of getting us killed pal. And, for what?? The BS that you think represents reality???

It sounds like you want your country back, but you haven't come to know what that means, or what it would look like. I mean,you haven't provided one thing, except Trump back in office, for which you would like to see?

Biden is doing nothing George Bush and Ronald Reagan didn't do. Neither of these praised Russian or other autocrats. Neither claimed to be best friends or exchanging love letters with a dictator. I agree with Hanson that Trump did it to himself.

How can anyone possibly be so stupid?
Or so impossibly prejudiced.

I know as a Drug Rep you are trained to only say & believe what corporate tells you to say & believe. Your livelihood depends upon your willingness to live in a lie. But I am not a doctor not is this a visit to the doctor's office. I am not interested in your stale donuts and I am most certainly not interested in buying what you are trying to sell.

Good gosh man, you are not even willing to read what I have written; you mind has already been made up as to what you are going to say!! (Why am I surprised, this is right out of Drug Rep training 101)
Please show me where I have said I want Trump back in office.

You wrote, "WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT"

"IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT"

It is clear you want Trump back and that would be" having your country back". If I misunderstood, you can now tell me what era would you like to return.

[724Seney]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?
YES

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?
LONG BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME I BELIEVED IT SHOULD BE "MAJORITY RULES" AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULD BE DISBANDED. AND, I'D BE FINE WITH IT NOW....... BUT NOT THE WAY THE RADICAL LEFT WANTED TO GO ABOUT DOING IT.

If I understand, "taking your country back" is just having Trump in office? You are not referring to a previous decade or era?

Does it concern you at all that Trump lost two elections using popular vote? This tells me the majority of Americans disagree with you. How does it make you feel that you are in the minority? If you are the minority, who should change? Or, to put it a different way, would you want to live in a place where the minority got their way over the majority?

Specifically, does it matter to you that more people have opportunities to have a good life, whether you understand or agree with them? Do you think you know what is best for others than they know for themselves? Do you feel you are superior to some?

I was foolish to let you pull me into what you described as a "discussion" Chuck.
I think I was pretty clear about how I feel about having Trump back in office. But, it didn't fit into your misguided rhetoric and so you ignored it. As usual.

You don't know how to have a discussion. All you know how to do is to spew forth totally nonsensical, illogical, toxic comments all of which fit your twisted purpose.

You are living the life of a lemming. Biden is on the brink of getting us killed pal. And, for what?? The BS that you think represents reality???

It sounds like you want your country back, but you haven't come to know what that means, or what it would look like. I mean,you haven't provided one thing, except Trump back in office, for which you would like to see?

Biden is doing nothing George Bush and Ronald Reagan didn't do. Neither of these praised Russian or other autocrats. Neither claimed to be best friends or exchanging love letters with a dictator. I agree with Hanson that Trump did it to himself.

How can anyone possibly be so stupid?
Or so impossibly prejudiced.

I know as a Drug Rep you are trained to only say & believe what corporate tells you to say & believe. Your livelihood depends upon your willingness to live in a lie. But I am not a doctor not is this a visit to the doctor's office. I am not interested in your stale donuts and I am most certainly not interested in buying what you are trying to sell.

Good gosh man, you are not even willing to read what I have written; you mind has already been made up as to what you are going to say!! (Why am I surprised, this is right out of Drug Rep training 101)
Please show me where I have said I want Trump back in office.

You wrote, "WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT"

"IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT"

It is clear you want Trump back and that would be" having your country back". If I misunderstood, you can now tell me what era would you like to return.

At the risk of repeating myself, WHERE do I say I want Trump to be President? In fact, I say that I am NOT advocating for him to be the Republican candidate in 2024.
Are you dyslexic Chuck? Do you not understand written English?
Or are you just a bigger moron than I thought?

[Chuck Naill]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?
YES

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?
LONG BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME I BELIEVED IT SHOULD BE "MAJORITY RULES" AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULD BE DISBANDED. AND, I'D BE FINE WITH IT NOW....... BUT NOT THE WAY THE RADICAL LEFT WANTED TO GO ABOUT DOING IT.

If I understand, "taking your country back" is just having Trump in office? You are not referring to a previous decade or era?

Does it concern you at all that Trump lost two elections using popular vote? This tells me the majority of Americans disagree with you. How does it make you feel that you are in the minority? If you are the minority, who should change? Or, to put it a different way, would you want to live in a place where the minority got their way over the majority?

Specifically, does it matter to you that more people have opportunities to have a good life, whether you understand or agree with them? Do you think you know what is best for others than they know for themselves? Do you feel you are superior to some?

I was foolish to let you pull me into what you described as a "discussion" Chuck.
I think I was pretty clear about how I feel about having Trump back in office. But, it didn't fit into your misguided rhetoric and so you ignored it. As usual.

You don't know how to have a discussion. All you know how to do is to spew forth totally nonsensical, illogical, toxic comments all of which fit your twisted purpose.

You are living the life of a lemming. Biden is on the brink of getting us killed pal. And, for what?? The BS that you think represents reality???

It sounds like you want your country back, but you haven't come to know what that means, or what it would look like. I mean,you haven't provided one thing, except Trump back in office, for which you would like to see?

Biden is doing nothing George Bush and Ronald Reagan didn't do. Neither of these praised Russian or other autocrats. Neither claimed to be best friends or exchanging love letters with a dictator. I agree with Hanson that Trump did it to himself.

How can anyone possibly be so stupid?
Or so impossibly prejudiced.

I know as a Drug Rep you are trained to only say & believe what corporate tells you to say & believe. Your livelihood depends upon your willingness to live in a lie. But I am not a doctor not is this a visit to the doctor's office. I am not interested in your stale donuts and I am most certainly not interested in buying what you are trying to sell.

Good gosh man, you are not even willing to read what I have written; you mind has already been made up as to what you are going to say!! (Why am I surprised, this is right out of Drug Rep training 101)
Please show me where I have said I want Trump back in office.

You wrote, "WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT"

"IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT"

It is clear you want Trump back and that would be" having your country back". If I misunderstood, you can now tell me what era would you like to return.

At the risk of repeating myself, WHERE do I say I want Trump to be President? In fact, I say that I am NOT advocating for him to be the Republican candidate in 2024.
Are you dyslexic Chuck? Do you not understand written English?
Or are you just a bigger moron than I thought?

Ask someone else to respond to what you posted and find out what they think you meant.

You’ve not responded to the basic question. You said you wanted your country back, but have yet to say what that means. Do you know what that means for you? What would having your country back look like?

[724Seney]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Hansen writes that Trump hurt himself with his communication. He said a third of his supporters didn't like him. He speaks of Trump's decline. Do you agree with Hansen?
YES

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT

As Hansen notes, Trump was helped by those that didn't want Clinton in office. People voted for Biden because they didn't want Trump is office. It has to be noted that Trump lost both popular vote contests. So, when we discuss people wanting their country back, should the minority or majority get to choose?
LONG BEFORE THE CURRENT TIME I BELIEVED IT SHOULD BE "MAJORITY RULES" AND THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULD BE DISBANDED. AND, I'D BE FINE WITH IT NOW....... BUT NOT THE WAY THE RADICAL LEFT WANTED TO GO ABOUT DOING IT.

If I understand, "taking your country back" is just having Trump in office? You are not referring to a previous decade or era?

Does it concern you at all that Trump lost two elections using popular vote? This tells me the majority of Americans disagree with you. How does it make you feel that you are in the minority? If you are the minority, who should change? Or, to put it a different way, would you want to live in a place where the minority got their way over the majority?

Specifically, does it matter to you that more people have opportunities to have a good life, whether you understand or agree with them? Do you think you know what is best for others than they know for themselves? Do you feel you are superior to some?

I was foolish to let you pull me into what you described as a "discussion" Chuck.
I think I was pretty clear about how I feel about having Trump back in office. But, it didn't fit into your misguided rhetoric and so you ignored it. As usual.

You don't know how to have a discussion. All you know how to do is to spew forth totally nonsensical, illogical, toxic comments all of which fit your twisted purpose.

You are living the life of a lemming. Biden is on the brink of getting us killed pal. And, for what?? The BS that you think represents reality???

It sounds like you want your country back, but you haven't come to know what that means, or what it would look like. I mean,you haven't provided one thing, except Trump back in office, for which you would like to see?

Biden is doing nothing George Bush and Ronald Reagan didn't do. Neither of these praised Russian or other autocrats. Neither claimed to be best friends or exchanging love letters with a dictator. I agree with Hanson that Trump did it to himself.

How can anyone possibly be so stupid?
Or so impossibly prejudiced.

I know as a Drug Rep you are trained to only say & believe what corporate tells you to say & believe. Your livelihood depends upon your willingness to live in a lie. But I am not a doctor not is this a visit to the doctor's office. I am not interested in your stale donuts and I am most certainly not interested in buying what you are trying to sell.

Good gosh man, you are not even willing to read what I have written; you mind has already been made up as to what you are going to say!! (Why am I surprised, this is right out of Drug Rep training 101)
Please show me where I have said I want Trump back in office.

You wrote, "WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT"

"IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT"

It is clear you want Trump back and that would be" having your country back". If I misunderstood, you can now tell me what era would you like to return.

At the risk of repeating myself, WHERE do I say I want Trump to be President? In fact, I say that I am NOT advocating for him to be the Republican candidate in 2024.
Are you dyslexic Chuck? Do you not understand written English?
Or are you just a bigger moron than I thought?

Ask someone else to respond to what you posted and find out what they think you meant.

You’ve not responded to the basic question. You said you wanted your country back, but have yet to say what that means. Do you know what that means for you? What would having your country back look like?

Well, maybe I'm just one of the demanding, needy, high maintenance types but I sure enjoyed having North Korea, China and Russia in their places and not being on the brink of World War III. I guess I also liked paying $1.79 for a gallon of gas and not having inflation at its highest rate in more than a generation. Oh yeah, the lowest rate of unemployment was also nice. And feeling safe in our big cities sure was cool. Being able to afford your rent and heating / cooling bills were also pleasant conveniences. Finally, it was nice having nut job, far left progressives like you having to whine & complain to yourselves and not disrupting the entire national dialogue on a daily basis. In short, I liked it when EVERYONE was better off than they are now.......

But, all this is something which will fall on your deaf, "don't confuse me with the facts" ears. You will persist in saying that none of this is real or, if it is, it has nothing to do with Joe Biden or the progressives who control his every scripted move. As for Biden's bonehead, unscripted gaffes, even the most radical of the far left progressives are not stupid enough to come up with that stuff.

What amazes me is all the people you jerks are advocating for were better off.....not just the people you label as white supremacist, sexist, racist, misogynistic, pig fascists.

But, because Trump was President, in your warped opinion those you advocate for really weren't better off. It's all just Russian misinformation. Somehow you actually manage to believe that in 2022 their having to pay $4.50 per gallon of gas, being unable to afford their housing or their groceries and being scared to death to leave their homes is a better way of life. Lucky them!!

The good people of the United States of America...ALL the good people....... deserve better. And if that does not work for you or fit into your narrative, maybe you should just go live elsewhere. You have no idea how lucky you are Chuck; in most other countries you and your idiotic ideas would be long dead by now.

[Bold2013]

What I gathered from 724:

if swing voters had know how bad things would become under Biden then they would have never voted for him and Trump would have been re-elected.

and his first choice for the republican candidate in 2024 is not Trump but anyone is better than Biden (well almost anyone…).

[724Seney]

What I gathered from 724:

if swing voters had know how bad things would become under Biden then they would have never voted for him and Trump would have been re-elected.

and his first choice for the republican candidate in 2024 is not Trump but anyone is better than Biden (well almost anyone…).

Thank you @Bold2013.
For the record, I didn't ask you to write this......... but you are 100% correct.

[Chip]

Much Ado About Nothing
Act 3, scene 5

LEONATO Neighbors, you are tedious.

DOGBERRY It pleases your Worship to say so, but we
are the poor duke’s officers. But truly, for mine
own part, if I were as tedious as a king, I could find
in my heart to bestow it all of your Worship.

LEONATO All thy tediousness on me, ah?

[Chuck Naill]

I’m don’t think voters would have been swayed to stay with Trump for several reasons. His autocratic nature and lessons learned from his niece, people who served in his administration, and investigative reporting all had a common message.

His handlers tried to portray him as “Trump the successful businessman “ which was not true, verifiably not true.

His lying and hyperbolic language only fooled his supporters.

No one, no matter how much you would like, can predict what a second term would have been like. Congress is ruled by the minority party, so naturally this must be considered.

There is no one that worked for his administration that was better off for having worked for him.

However, I don’t fault anyone for supporting him, but I never could. One concern that I had was that if re-elected, there would never have been another election and a system of succession destroyed. Now some of you might want to live in a autocratic state where Trump and his family became like Putin, but not me.

[Chip]

Point of order: My family arrived on this continent in 1629 and soon thereafter began stealing land and resources from the original residents, the Wampanoag.

We moved west in 1848 and started stealing land and resources from the Shoshoni, Ute, Paiute, and Goshute people.

Given that history (disreputable as it may be), I'd like to know how the hell this is your country and not mine?

[724Seney]

I’m don’t think voters would have been swayed to stay with Trump for several reasons. His autocratic nature and lessons learned from his niece, people who served in his administration, and investigative reporting all had a common message.

His handlers tried to portray him as “Trump the successful businessman “ which was not true, verifiably not true.

His lying and hyperbolic language only fooled his supporters.

No one, no matter how much you would like, can predict what a second term would have been like. Congress is ruled by the minority party, so naturally this must be considered.

There is no one that worked for his administration that was better off for having worked for him.

However, I don’t fault anyone for supporting him, but I never could. One concern that I had was that if re-elected, there would never have been another election and a system of succession destroyed. Now some of you might want to live in a autocratic state where Trump and his family became like Putin, but not me.

1. So, Chuck, are you suggesting that Trump's niece is one of those "creditable historians" that you have been referencing?
2. Once again, we have taken a conversation that began with Biden and the awful national & international states of affairs which have followed his ascension to the Presidency and turned it into a Trump narrative.

With you, every day is like Ground Hog Day.

[Chip]

With you, every day is like Ground Hog Day.

https://i.imgur.com/3vljog8.jpg

[dneal]

1. So, Chuck, are you suggesting that Trump's niece is one of those "creditable historians" that you have been referencing?
2. Once again, we have taken a conversation that began with Biden and the awful national & international states of affairs which have followed his ascension to the Presidency and turned it into a Trump narrative.

With you, every day is like Ground Hog Day.

"Phil Connors" here, who saw Chuck as an intriguing challenge and thought I could get out of Groundhog Day. So many people (left and right) are stuck in their Twitter-exchange level of thinking diatribes - all they can do is recite their narrative.

Be rational? Nope.
Point out logical fallacies? Nope.
Mock? Nope.
Mimic? Nope.

Best I can tell, Chuck is an older gent with mental challenges. Dementia, Alzheimers, I don't know... He's consumed with TDS and wokeness.

He's also an attention whore. Note the multiple threads, usually Trump oriented, that only he responds to (with consecutive posts a few minutes apart). The crazy old dude ranting from a park bench metaphor has become more apt.

So interestingly, Chuck is an "old school" troll. A rarity these days. The best course is to ignore him. With all his projection, I should have picked up on that sooner since he likes to bring up who he's "ignoring" (he isn't) and who is being ignored.

[Chuck Naill]

I’m don’t think voters would have been swayed to stay with Trump for several reasons. His autocratic nature and lessons learned from his niece, people who served in his administration, and investigative reporting all had a common message.

His handlers tried to portray him as “Trump the successful businessman “ which was not true, verifiably not true.

His lying and hyperbolic language only fooled his supporters.

No one, no matter how much you would like, can predict what a second term would have been like. Congress is ruled by the minority party, so naturally this must be considered.

There is no one that worked for his administration that was better off for having worked for him.

However, I don’t fault anyone for supporting him, but I never could. One concern that I had was that if re-elected, there would never have been another election and a system of succession destroyed. Now some of you might want to live in a autocratic state where Trump and his family became like Putin, but not me.

1. So, Chuck, are you suggesting that Trump's niece is one of those "creditable historians" that you have been referencing?
2. Once again, we have taken a conversation that began with Biden and the awful national & international states of affairs which have followed his ascension to the Presidency and turned it into a Trump narrative.

With you, every day is like Ground Hog Day.

She is an Psychologist and brings that perspective to the first books she wrote regarding Trump and her father’s family.

If you hadn’t wanted to be addressed, you could have not posted. How was I to know you wanted your country back, but you can’t say what you mean.

Actually, no. Every day I try to learn something new. It’s why I’ve been reading Snyder and Hansen.

[Chuck Naill]

Point of order: My family arrived on this continent in 1629 and soon thereafter began stealing land and resources from the original residents, the Wampanoag.

We moved west in 1848 and started stealing land and resources from the Shoshoni, Ute, Paiute, and Goshute people.

Given that history (disreputable as it may be), I'd like to know how the hell this is your country and not mine?

I want my country back….lol😂😂😂

[724Seney]

How was I to know you wanted your country back, but you can’t say what you mean.

I love the way you squirm when you know you've been busted.
Ta, ta for now Chuck-Wagon! :wave:

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT



Asking for clarity. Are the two statements above (@724Seney) your opinion or can they be independently statistically verified?

[Chuck Naill]

How was I to know you wanted your country back, but you can’t say what you mean.

I love the way you squirm when you know you've been busted.
Ta, ta for now Chuck-Wagon! :wave:

If you feel I’m busted and that you provided what getting your country back would mean, I’m good. So long! 😩😩😩

[724Seney]

Sure, I'll be glad to respond and will do so in CAPS only to make it easier to differentiate my comments from yours. So, no sophomoric comments about my use of CAPS please:

What would "taking your country back" look like to you? Would you go back to the 1930's? 1950's ? If you respond, we can discuss a time that you feel America was better than now.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK BACK VERY FAR CHUCK, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, MYSELF INCLUDED, CURRENTLY BELIEVE WE WERE MUCH BETTER OFF BEFORE BIDEN BECAME PRESIDENT

Biden won the popular vote by 7 million. Clearly more people wanted a change. Yes, Biden is not a disciplined speaker, but neither was Trump.
IF THE ELECTION WERE TODAY EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP WOULD VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDEPENDENTS WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE TRUMP'S COMMUNICATION STYLE WOULD SEE THE ERROR IN THEIR WAYS AND VOTE FOR TRUMP. TRUMP WOULD WIN IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR TRUMP AS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN 2024 I AM ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT OF FACT



Asking for clarity. Are the two statements above (@724Seney) your opinion or can they be independently statistically verified?

Depends upon your view of the application of statistics to polling outcomes.
The three stooges and their progressive, far left looney tune disciples are fine if the numbers favor their position but claim they are invalid if they favor the contrarian point of view.
State your position and we can take it from there........... You can't have it both ways.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I'm neutral, inasmuch as I am overseas and don't play a part in US politics/elections. Also I am neutral (I hope) because I work in human health research and look at statistics as they are and not as I want them to be. So all in all I don't have a position with regard to the politics themselves. As far as personalities are concerned, whether I like/don't like Trump/Biden/whoever has no bearing on what I see in the statistics.

So my request stands. You have made several statements in the quoted post.

1. The majority of Americans... believe we were much better off before Biden became president.

Statistics or opinion for 'the majority of Americans'? What does 'before Biden' mean? Previous president? One before that? Earlier?

2. 'Everyone who voted for Trump would vote for him again.

Source? Statistics?

3. Significant number of independents who voted for Biden... would... vote for Trump.

Source? Statistics? Estimate of level of significance?


From outside of the US it is hard to get a true feel for any groundswell. So statements such as these beg the question: opinion or statistical findings? I think it is fair and reasonable to ask.

[724Seney]

I'm neutral, inasmuch as I am overseas and don't play a part in US politics/elections. Also I am neutral (I hope) because I work in human health research and look at statistics as they are and not as I want them to be. So all in all I don't have a position with regard to the politics themselves. As far as personalities are concerned, whether I like/don't like Trump/Biden/whoever has no bearing on what I see in the statistics.

So my request stands. You have made several statements in the quoted post.

1. The majority of Americans... believe we were much better off before Biden became president.

Statistics or opinion for 'the majority of Americans'? What does 'before Biden' mean? Previous president? One before that? Earlier?

2. 'Everyone who voted for Trump would vote for him again.

Source? Statistics?

3. Significant number of independents who voted for Biden... would... vote for Trump.

Source? Statistics? Estimate of level of significance?


From outside of the US it is hard to get a true feel for any groundswell. So statements such as these beg the question: opinion or statistical findings? I think it is fair and reasonable to ask.

Nor have you answered mine.....

Please answer very definitively whether or not if you are presented data from polls you are willing to believe that (proper) statistics can be applied to them in order to develop a "statistically significant" & valid conclusion regarding the question(s) or will you merely write them off as invalid because they only represent a selected population's opinion?

You say you work in human health research and look at statistics as they are and not as you want them to be but these data are not the same as the incidence of lung cancer in a population of smokers vs non-smokers or the incidence of sudden, fatal MI's in persons with left main coronary artery occlusions of > 80%!

Simply stated, public opinion polls are not the same as studies based upon hard data which demonstrates the relative incidence of disease, etc.

"I think this is fair and reasonable to ask."

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I think you misunderstand my point.

My position - and this is definitive - is that I will consider the statistics and the conditions under which they are generated, as well as the population sample demographics that were surveyed. This is a standard process for analysing data. If you present data from a sample that is not representative of the population then I have to take that into account. Otherwise any conclusions will not be honest.

For example. If you asked 100 people who stated, prior to the survey, that they loved vanilla ice cream, 'do you love vanilla ice cream?' then the data would be meaningless other than to confirm what is already known. If you ask 100 far left democrats if they think Biden is better than Trump, for example, you would expect the overwhelming majority to say yes. Again, such data provides no additional insight to what is known.

The polls also need to drill down sufficiently below a single question to be considered meaningful.

The point here is that you have stated 'the majority of Americans' etc, i.e. that you are speaking for persons of all political leanings across the whole population. The data should reveal whether this is a true picture or not.


ps: it is not my intention to pick holes, but if there are questions that need to be asked about the validity of data or how it was collected then they will be explored.

[724Seney]

I think you misunderstand my point.

My position - and this is definitive - is that I will consider the statistics and the conditions under which they are generated, as well as the population sample demographics that were surveyed. This is a standard process for analysing data. If you present data from a sample that is not representative of the population then I have to take that into account. Otherwise any conclusions will not be honest.

For example. If you asked 100 people who stated, prior to the survey, that they loved vanilla ice cream, 'do you love vanilla ice cream?' then the data would be meaningless other than to confirm what is already known. If you ask 100 far left democrats if they think Biden is better than Trump, for example, you would expect the overwhelming majority to say yes. Again, such data provides no additional insight to what is known.

The polls also need to drill down sufficiently below a single question to be considered meaningful.

The point here is that you have stated 'the majority of Americans' etc, i.e. that you are speaking for persons of all political leanings across the whole population. The data should reveal whether this is a true picture or not.


ps: it is not my intention to pick holes, but if there are questions that need to be asked about the validity of data or how it was collected then they will be explored.

And, the further point is that if the "data" are not in keeping with what "you" (not you personally EoC but the collective "you" like the tribe that dominates this sub-forum) want to hear it is dismissed for exactly the reasons you have described. And, of course, the reverse is exactly true. If it is aligned with what they want to hear, it is rock solid gospel.

So, in the end, I suppose the best guidance is to pick your poll and believe what you want. Again, it is too soft a science for someone who spends their time looking at data relative to incidence of disease, etc.

That said, I must say, those data can be very skewed and misleading, too. I know you know this but it has to be said....... It's the kind of stuff that drug reps get spoon fed and then dispatched to use to get doctors to prescribe the product. The drug reps don't know a T- test from a Chi square or a T cell from a basophil.... but they are convinced that what they have to say is irrefutable and deflect any question(s) about the validity of the data until they wear their prey out. And that is exactly what is happening here.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I appreciate the soft data vs hard data argument, as far as it goes, but there is still insight to be had.

I am not looking at data from the perspective of what I want to hear. As noted before, it is important to understand the context in which data is collected. And as also noted, you have used the statement 'the majority of Americans'. I would like to know how you arrive at that statement, and more importantly whether it is representative of a specific population sample or can be generalised to the whole population.

Yes, others may jump all over your responses, but you don't have to react to that, and it shouldn't dissuade you from providing a response to an honest request for clarification.

All data is approached with caution in the first instance. That is just good practice.

[724Seney]

An honest request deserves an honest response. Very different from what Chuck has been lobbing at me all day.

Needless to say, I am not going to cite any polls or polling data from Fox News...... but would comment I always find it interesting to note that their polls are summarily dismissed in the same collective breaths that fawn over CNN's polls.

Each of these come from organizations which most consider to be creditable sources. The most current data (3/21/22) comes from I&I/TIPP. Since you are unlikely to know of them, I have provided some background context as to their credibility.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/01/25/views-of-joe-biden/
https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn/what-americans-think-of-biden-dec-2021
https://tippinsights.com/i-i-tipp-poll-are-you-better-off-today-than-a-year-ago-by-4-to-1-americans-say-no/
https://www.investors.com/news/ibdtipp-americas-most-accurate-pollster/

Enough to justify my comment???

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Appreciate the links. I am familiar with a couple of these.

Have had a cursory look through them and have a one or two points to raise.

1. Care must be taken when looking at approval ratings. If person A has 45% approval this does not mean person B has 55% approval.
2. From point 1, as I understand it, only 50% of Presidents from Truman to Trump have approval ratings above 50%.
3. In the change from one administration to another there is always a bleeding effect.

To explain a little further, if you ask 100 people which candidate is doing better and 40 choose Person A and 35 choose Person B, in the absence of other candidates this means that 25 people are not represented as anything other than abstaining. If someone wants to count an abstaining vote as a negative against a particular candidate then the same rule applies to the other candidate, so it cancels out.

Trump inherited a downward trending unemployment record, Biden has inherited the disaster that is the pandemic. Neither had choice in having to pick up these rotten cards, so I find it's hard to criticise or praise either in such circumstances.


Then there is the conflation between cause and effect. When you say 'the majority of Americans' claim to be better off before Biden, this does not necessarily point toward the effect of this President or the previous one (see point 3 above). Trump inherited an expanding economy and a falling unemployment rate. Frankly speaking you could probably insert just about any name instead of Trump and the result of the poll would be the same. Then again, are those people thinking of the first three years of Trump in office, when the effect of Obama's administration was stronger, or the last year of Trump when the economy was getting hammered by the pandemic? I'm not knocking Trump here, just looking at the larger picture. The reason also to raise this is that Biden's first year in office is also hamstrung by the pandemic. A question of comparing the right things I think.

Anyway, there is a lot to unpack on the sites, and wariness is key to avoid falling into pitfalls.

[724Seney]

I am neutral (I hope) because I work in human health research and look at statistics as they are and not as I want them to be. So all in all I don't have a position with regard to the politics themselves. As far as personalities are concerned, whether I like/don't like Trump/Biden/whoever has no bearing on what I see in the statistics.

:pound:

I don't know. Although I agree with a lot of what you have said (and you sure say it better than Moe, Larry or Curley) you sure as hell are not neutral! In your comments you have done all you can to interpret these data in the most positive possible way in favor of Biden and the most negative possible way with regard to Trump.

What's that word?????? Oh yeah, unconscious bias. Right????

And, the condescending lecture on approval ratings was really not necessary........... but what else would one expect from a lifetime inmate of the Ivory Tower? :wink:

[calamus]

Statistics can be misleading, and sometimes are. Also, they are often suspect. And finally, some things just aren't quantifiable.
That said, I applaud your measured stance, and/or desire for facts and not just opinion.

Myself, I find that there is so much disinformation being purveyed these days, that it is extremely difficult to know for certain many important things.

On the other hand, it's difficult to sort out wishful thinking, paranoia, personal bias and a host of other subjective elements.

Therefore, I've concluded that speaking objectively, it is difficult if not impossible to understand what's really going on,
and speaking subjectively, the same is true.

Leaving the smell test, I guess.

[dneal]

@EoC - Not sure why you're conflating the issue with the orange one when the point is that the current Democrat party (and their leader - President Biden) is polling abysmally.

Seney has offered relatively unbiased samples of several recent polls. These trends are not new, and have been the case for many months now.

Sure, there is a lot of room for error. Sampling, construction of question, etc... Pollsters account for that (margin of error). But that's just academic discussion ignoring the point (and the poll data).

"Trump inherited an expanding economy" and "Biden is hamstrung by the pandemic" are partisan talking points, and frankly your bias is showing when you claim Trump's economic success was because he "inherited an expanding economy and a falling unemployment rate". You have supplied no data to support those assertions - and I believe you're the one who has made data-supported arguments your argument. Those kinds of comments are have no bearing on the current opinions of Americans. They're not happy with this administration - as the poll data shows.

[Bold2013]

I think this election cycle will be telling

[Empty_of_Clouds]

My last post was merely to express how data can be approached, and how it can be interpreted in different ways. It's interesting that because I've pitched it the way I did someone else takes that as a sign of my personal biases rather than as the example it was intended to be. In some ways the somewhat triggered response is interesting all by itself, but it was/is not my intention to argue politics in themselves.

@724seney, my apologies if you inferred I was lecturing you on approval ratings, but I needed to include that part in order to make my point clear. r


FYI, I wouldn't say I was far right or far left in my political leanings, especially since I don't hold wholly to the entire set of ideas held by either, but rather an amalgam of acceptable (to me) ideas from both. I would say that on aggregate I am for sure left of centre, but not far left. However, I also firmly believe in democracy. If the majority of people in the US want a right of centre govt. I have no reason not to support that, and vice versa. There have been many elections, in the countries that I've lived/worked in, where the party I voted for didn't get into power. I've accepted all the decisions with equanimity even when I haven't been happy with them.

Further to this, with regard to available information and narratives around either political side, I am fully aware of the hyperbole and spin that both sides use, and I don't necessarily lend any additional weight due to this or to my personal preferences (as far as I am able).



As for ivory towers, that was just hilarious! :) I am a denizen of the plains. I could have taken offence, like you did about the approval ratings, but what would that serve?

[Empty_of_Clouds]

"Trump inherited an expanding economy" and "Biden is hamstrung by the pandemic" are partisan talking points, and frankly your bias is showing when you claim Trump's economic success was because he "inherited an expanding economy and a falling unemployment rate". You have supplied no data to support those assertions - and I believe you're the one who has made data-supported arguments your argument. Those kinds of comments are have no bearing on the current opinions of Americans. They're not happy with this administration - as the poll data shows.

It may seem that way, but I am just going on what I have read. The underlying point is that over the course of a presidential term there is an initial period of cross-over and trend with the previous administration, and a late-term perhaps more true to incumbent situation. Both are likely to be affected by major events outside the immediate control of govt.

It is entirely possible that without the pandemic Trump would have won a second term and the economy would have continued to grow. The pandemic itself is not his fault. I would also argue that Biden's administration should be doing better with the pandemic, given that they have more data and various organisations have greater experience than during Trumps term, but they are floundering quite a bit on many aspects of this IMO.

I don't believe that recognising and expressing these factors is exhibiting any form of partisanship. It's rather an appreciation of the fact that not everything goes according to one's wishes, or the wishes of one's supporters, and for a wide variety of reasons.



Edit: I don't doubt that polls show that the current opinions of Americans is not in favour of this administration. My caveat was against assuming it's an either or situation with regard to candidates.

[Chip]

Therefore, I've concluded that speaking objectively, it is difficult if not impossible to understand what's really going on,
and speaking subjectively, the same is true.

Leaving the smell test, I guess.

https://i.imgur.com/ggZbOly.jpg

[Chuck Naill]

Being allowed to or able to interpret information differently is consistent with being an individual. There is a danger in any society when people use name calling and intimidation because others do not share their opinions. Opinions are not facts.

After reading Victor Davis Hanson's "A Case for Donald Trump" I can see that while he is a supporter of Mr. Trump, he is able to understand how Trump became a disappointment to those that tried to support him.

Many former Republicans, like myself, knew they could never support a person like Trump. When I heard people say they were better off with Trump, I didn't argue, but I didn't see it for myself.

Hansen discussed how white grievances caused support for Trump. They felt he was attacking those that had ignored them. They felt they finally had a voice. His name calling made him look small. As a father I would not want my children to act like Trump.

What I would like to see is a path toward bringing everyone on board and for everyone to know they have a person that appreciates diversity and in inclusive. As long as we focus on culture, not one benefits and it could lead us to do something where freedoms are lost forever.

This seems appropriate:
"And here’s the thing: When I look at the United States, I worry that the West is, in fact, being made weaker by decadence — but not the kind that obsesses Putin and those who think like him. Our vulnerability comes not from the decline of traditional family values, but from the decline of traditional democratic values, such as a belief in the rule of law and a willingness to accept the results of elections that don’t go your way."
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/28/opinion/putin-western-decadence.html

At a recent Trump rally the words were in large print behind the former president, "Awake, Not Woke". What is it that bothers some with the concept of being woke? When someone says they want their country back and refuses to accept that their country took lands away from those that were here before Western Europeans, this cannot be good for them or others.

A Florida politian refused to believe Transgendered people exist. This is the first step toward removing civil rights. It has been done before and for anyone willing to inform themselves, it is not a good outcome.

[Chip]

I read Krugman's column, too. Good.

In The Guardian, Robert Reich posted a column that attributes that decadence (the decline of traditional democratic values, such as a belief in the rule of law and a willingness to accept the results of elections) as well as the increasing amount of hate, paranoia, envy, etc. to the corrosive influence of strongman figures (such as Trump and Putin). They are supported and promoted by oligarchs and the ultra-rich (Koch, Mercer, Thiel, et al.) who wish public attention to be diverted from their systematic looting of global economies and subversion of the law, to a generalized hatred and fear of others. The notion that these "others" are taking over one's country from the "true" citizens is the central delusion being pushed by sources as diverse as Vladimir Putin, Tucker Carlson, and the yapdogs of the Republican party.

https://i.imgur.com/OloiZAZ.jpg

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/putin-trump-tucker-carlson-republican-party?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[dneal]

Hansen discussed how white grievances caused support for Trump.

68578

[Chip]

Since you need help, try DuckDuckGo.

https://i.imgur.com/QQ8mFTS.jpg

[Chip]

Incidentally, Reich's ideas are similar to those of Thomas Piketty (Capital in the 21st Century) on the long-term destabilizing influence of economic inequality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Piketty

[TSherbs]

At Charleston, you'd have to call it torch-lit white Christian grievance: "Hey, hey, ho. The Jews have got to go!"

"Good people on both sides," tho.

[dneal]

Since you need help, try DuckDuckGo.

This is why you suck at this, Chippy. You aren’t witty enough to keep up with the context.

Let me explain the joke that your superior thinking can’t grasp:

Chuck misrepresented Victor Davis Hanson’s The Case for Trump, erroneously asserting VDH claims “white grievances” got Trump elected.

I posted a screenshot of the digital copy of the book (look to the right and you can see the title), and the search result for “white grievances”.

Now stay with me for a moment (and this is for you too, Chucklehead). You can see the search for “white grievances” yielded no results.

I wish you were half as clever as you believe you are, only because some semblance of a challenge would be more entertaining. Is that a sin?

Simple enough for you?

[Chip]

So Hanson erred by claiming that white grievance didn't get Trump elected?

Maybe it was Jewish space lasers.

[Chuck Naill]

Thing is, some of us would like to come together to solve problems. We are willing to own US history. We are willing to accept everyone's right to worship or not. We are willing to accept everyone whether we understand why and how or not. It really does not matter if there is a problem if we choose to cooperate.

Do you care if a gay man is also an EMT and saves your life? If not, then you can accept him in any other situation.

Does it matter if your social worker is trans when they are helping you access resources? If not, you can accept them and hope and work so they can have a good life.

Are you uncomfortable around people that don't look like you do? If so, take time to speak to them, smile, let them in line, offer to help, go out of your way. A smile transcends all languages, and costs nothing.

When I consider the bravery of the Ukrainians, I am embarrassed by the response to a virus the US has exemplified over the past two years. I am embarrassed by white grievance. There was a member here who said they wanted their country back, and another member reminded us of how Western Europeans took a country away from native people, I laughed out loud at the irony. As Snyder noted, when the West conquered the Americas they had a secret weapon, microbes.

We should not re-post information that is not true, but if we do, admit it. This is because we want our neighbors to be properly informed and to do no harm. How many died because of wrong information that was re-posted about a virus and how it could be prevented?

[dneal]

So Hanson erred by claiming that white grievance didn't get Trump elected?

Maybe it was Jewish space lasers.

So you couldn't stay with me. Not surprising.

At least you got your deflection in.

[TSherbs]

Thing is, some of us would like to come together to solve problems. We are willing to own US history. We are willing to accept everyone's right to worship or not. We are willing to accept everyone whether we understand why and how or not. It really does not matter if there is a problem if we choose to cooperate.

Do you care if a gay man is also an EMT and saves your life? If not, then you can accept him in any other situation.

Does it matter if your social worker is trans when they are helping you access resources? If not, you can accept them and hope and work so they can have a good life.

Are you uncomfortable around people that don't look like you do? If so, take time to speak to them, smile, let them in line, offer to help, go out of your way. A smile transcends all languages, and costs nothing.

When I consider the bravery of the Ukrainians, I am embarrassed by the response to a virus the US has exemplified over the past two years. I am embarrassed by white grievance. There was a member here who said they wanted their country back, and another member reminded us of how Western Europeans took a country away from native people, I laughed out loud at the irony. As Snyder noted, when the West conquered the Americas they had a secret weapon, microbes.

We should not re-post information that is not true, but if we do, admit it. This is because we want our neighbors to be properly informed and to do no harm. How many died because of wrong information that was re-posted about a virus and how it could be prevented?

The selfishness of Americans never surprises me anymore. It did, when I was young. But I have seen so much more of it since then.

[Chuck Naill]

Some may think they identify with Trump as someone willing to take a stand and tell it like it is. The problem, of course, is Trump is neither. Essentially he is a coward. S

[Chip]

So you couldn't stay with me. Not surprising.

Would you chase a skunk down a rabbit hole?

[dneal]

You’re still sucking at this Chippy. Your deflection doesn’t even make any sense.

But let’s use your new metaphor - The only hole is the “white grievances” one you and Chuck dug.

I’m not in it - I’m mocking the two sets of beady little eyes staring out of it. You haven’t found a skunk, that’s the smell of Chuckle’s bullshit you inadvertently picked up.

[Chip]

If you had any regard for Emerson, you wouldn't botch his words. Look hard. You'll get it by the finish of your day.

https://i.imgur.com/Dwo1ISE.jpg

[dneal]

Botched? Oh heavens no. I selected the quote for you (Mr. Blunder) and Chuck (Mr. Absurdity).

Yes, it it nonsense to bother responding to your snark and vitriol, but I have too high a spirit to be cumbered with it. That's why I'm not the one rooting around other threads feebly trying to construct insults from weeks-old posts. "Master baiter / wanker" is the best you can do? How juvenile.

You still suck at this.

[Chuck Naill]

The larger issue that we should be concerned is not name calling or baseless accusations, but the threat to the world that Putin poses. If Trump were to be re-elected, since he is a Putin puppet, our own survival would be in jeopardy. The US must appear as a joke to him. Our endless squabbles and infighting is an embarrassment.

We may choose to disagree on many things, but we could agree on survival and living democratically. At least seeing ourselves on the same team would be beneficial.

[724Seney]

The larger issue that we should be concerned is not name calling or baseless accusations, but the threat to the world that Putin poses. If Trump were to be re-elected, since he is a Putin puppet, our own survival would be in jeopardy. The US must appear as a joke to him. Our endless squabbles and infighting is an embarrassment.

We may choose to disagree on many things, but we could agree on survival and living democratically. At least seeing ourselves on the same team would be beneficial.

Perhaps the greatest stimulus for the name calling and accusations (some of which are not at all baseless) is the unending stream of absurd statements that the three of you continuously post in virtually every thread on this sub-forum. Given you've made this plea that we move on from the squabbling yet, in this same post, say "If Trump were to be re-elected, since he is a Putin puppet, our own survival would be in jeopardy," it is clear to me 1) You realize you are losing the name calling & accusation contest, big time and 2) Have not got the ability to do what it takes to actually achieve the disingenuous goal you propose.

Not long ago a comment was posted which said, in effect, none of this (Ukranian invasion) would have happened if Trump were still President. Your response was "What evidence do you have for that claim?"
Actually, a fair question Chuck. But, wait for it, "whatever goes around comes around."
So, Chuck, without any name calling or accusations, I ask you relative to your statement "If Trump were to be re-elected, since he is a Putin puppet, our own survival would be in jeopardy,"
What evidence do you have for this claim?"

And, PS, wake up and smell the coffee. Thanks to your bungle boy Sleepy Joe, our survival is ALREADY in jeopardy!!

[Chuck Naill]

I am woke, @724seney. You've been reduced to name calling and unable to provide evidence that if the election was today, Trump would win. I read your and EOC's exchange.

It is a matter of historical fact that Trump is connected to Putin and Russia. So, there is much more evidence that Trump would cooperate with Putin than the Ukranian war would not have occurred with Trump in office.

Perhaps it is you who needs to smell the coffee or the horse manure you tend to believe.

[724Seney]

I am woke, @724seney. You've been reduced to name calling and unable to provide evidence that if the election was today, Trump would win. I read your and EOC's exchange.

It is a matter of historical fact that Trump is connected to Putin and Russia. So, there is much more evidence that Trump would cooperate with Putin than the Ukranian war would not have occurred with Trump in office.

Perhaps it is you who needs to smell the coffee or the horse manure you tend to believe.

This impotent response is beyond pathetic Chuck.
If the drug company you shilled for made Viagra for the brain even the maximal recommended dose would not get a sufficient enough amount of blood flowing to your brain for you to do anything much more than breathe.
It must be awful to be you..............

[Bold2013]

I wonder if Hunters laptop will show a Biden connection to Ukrainian/Russia…

[Chuck Naill]

Baseless comments won’t get you a cigar, but it does serve for a good chuckle .

[Chuck Naill]

I wonder if Hunters laptop will show a Biden connection to Ukrainian/Russia…

I hope this will either occur or we can move on. Perhaps Putin will help Trump out and respond.

[Bold2013]

I predict Biden impeachment hearings in the next 18 months

[Chuck Naill]

I predict Biden impeachment hearings in the next 18 months
Anything but Trump or his children.

[Chuck Naill]

“ remember boys and girls, your school , like our country, is made up of Americans of many different races, religions, and national origins. So, if you hear anybody talk against a schoolmate or anyone else because of his religion, race, or national origin, don’t wait, tell them that kind of talk is un-American.”

Circa 1938

So much for the myth and whine of “I want my country back”!

[Chuck Naill]

And, to remind some, women’s worth is only for the enjoyment of rich white men, like Trump.

[calamus]

Therefore, I've concluded that speaking objectively, it is difficult if not impossible to understand what's really going on,
and speaking subjectively, the same is true.

Leaving the smell test, I guess.

https://i.imgur.com/ggZbOly.jpg

Yep. If it smells like a load of fecal matter, it probably is.

[calamus]

I wonder if Hunters laptop will show a Biden connection to Ukrainian/Russia…

Ya think?

[TSherbs]

I predict Biden impeachment hearings in the next 18 months

For what?

[Bold2013]

Whatever they find on that laptop

[TSherbs]

Whatever they find on that laptop

It wasn't his laptop. Nor even anyone's in his cabinet or office. You don't impeach presidents for their family unless they work for the govt and are carrying out criminal orders for you.

The weaponization of presidential impeachment is one of the corruptions of contemporary politics.

[calamus]

Being allowed to or able to interpret information differently is consistent with being an individual. There is a danger in any society when people use name calling and intimidation because others do not share their opinions. Opinions are not facts.

After reading Victor Davis Hanson's "A Case for Donald Trump" I can see that while he is a supporter of Mr. Trump, he is able to understand how Trump became a disappointment to those that tried to support him.

Many former Republicans, like myself, knew they could never support a person like Trump. When I heard people say they were better off with Trump, I didn't argue, but I didn't see it for myself.

Hansen discussed how white grievances caused support for Trump. They felt he was attacking those that had ignored them. They felt they finally had a voice. His name calling made him look small. As a father I would not want my children to act like Trump.

What I would like to see is a path toward bringing everyone on board and for everyone to know they have a person that appreciates diversity and in inclusive. As long as we focus on culture, not one benefits and it could lead us to do something where freedoms are lost forever.

This seems appropriate:
"And here’s the thing: When I look at the United States, I worry that the West is, in fact, being made weaker by decadence — but not the kind that obsesses Putin and those who think like him. Our vulnerability comes not from the decline of traditional family values, but from the decline of traditional democratic values, such as a belief in the rule of law and a willingness to accept the results of elections that don’t go your way."
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/28/opinion/putin-western-decadence.html

At a recent Trump rally the words were in large print behind the former president, "Awake, Not Woke". What is it that bothers some with the concept of being woke? When someone says they want their country back and refuses to accept that their country took lands away from those that were here before Western Europeans, this cannot be good for them or others.

A Florida politian refused to believe Transgendered people exist. This is the first step toward removing civil rights. It has been done before and for anyone willing to inform themselves, it is not a good outcome.

It's a shame you edited out some of your more stupid remarks in this post, because they were very telling. Still, you've left enough meat on the bone that I can still address a few of the comments you've left.

"What I would like to see is a path toward bringing everyone on board and for everyone to know they have a person that appreciates diversity and in inclusive. As long as we focus on culture, not one benefits and it could lead us to do something where freedoms are lost forever."

It's become painfully apparent that when people talk about diversity and inclusion, they are using essentially meaningless talking points to virtue-signal. In reality, to those who use such language, "diversity" and "inclusion" really mean "diverse left-wing morons obsessed with identity politics" and "nobody to the right of Mao Tse-Tung gets included in inclusion." These days even the likes of Dr. King aren't welcome in the inclusivity tent -- his contention that what matters is not the color of a man's skin but the content of his character is heresy under today's identity politics agenda. The only thing that matters is the color of his skin -- unless he's a conservative, like Clarence Thomas or Ben Carson.

"A Florida politian refused to believe Transgendered people exist. This is the first step toward removing civil rights. It has been done before and for anyone willing to inform themselves, it is not a good outcome."
More meaningless drivel. People with common sense, like Gov. DeSantis (a Latino who doesn't get included under the inclusivity tent because he's not a Marxist), recognize the existence of people who have allowed themselves to be sexually mutilated because they believe (as do the morons on the left who feed their delusions) that suddenly a man is a woman because he's been castrated and takes hormones and wears women's clothes. Or a woman, or even a little girl, whose breasts have been surgically removed, etc. etc., is a man. That's what transgendered people are, and DeSantis recognizes that they exist. And when someone, like the governor of Florida, takes a stance against schools sexually grooming very young children to turn them, or like the governor of Texas, takes a stance against mutilating 5-year-olds, then, according to the leftists, people like that are bigots. Sheer insanity.

You sir, are hopefully just a moron. Otherwise, you are either insane or evil.

[Chip]

An observation: the more heated your name-calling and invective, the less effect it has (on me at least).

In fact, when you tell me I "suck" at your cheap little game, it feels like a compliment.

Once again, if my barbs never hit home, why are you compelled to reply?

[Bold2013]

The Left reminds me of Malachi 2


Breaking Covenant Through Injustice

17 You have wearied the Lord with your words.

“How have we wearied him?” you ask.

By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

[Chuck Naill]

The Left reminds me of Malachi 2


Breaking Covenant Through Injustice

17 You have wearied the Lord with your words.

“How have we wearied him?” you ask.

By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

What verse comes to mind when you read, “grab them by the pussy”?

[Chip]

Gdzie jest Bóg sprawiedliwości?

Don't think he's on this forum.

[Bold2013]

Chip He is on His throne.

Psalm 2

1 Why do the nations conspire[a]
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord and against his anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.”
4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.

[Bold2013]

The Left reminds me of Malachi 2


Breaking Covenant Through Injustice

17 You have wearied the Lord with your words.

“How have we wearied him?” you ask.

By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

What verse comes to mind when you read, “grab them by the pussy”?


Many. Ephesians 4:29 for starters

29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

[Chip]

Chip He is on His throne.

So Trump gave him a key?

https://i.imgur.com/vUCddrA.jpg

[Bold2013]

And Matthew 12

36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

[724Seney]

The Left reminds me of Malachi 2


Breaking Covenant Through Injustice

17 You have wearied the Lord with your words.

“How have we wearied him?” you ask.

By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

What verse comes to mind when you read, “grab them by the pussy”?

Hey, no contest Chuck. This was an awful thing that Trump got caught saying.
But, there for the grace of God goes you and everybody else on this thread. We have all said some pretty bad things in a moment of weakness and unfortunately Trump, long before he was President, got caught on an open mike saying this...........not an excuse and there is a lesson to be learned. Do you hear me Chuck?? I am agreeing with you....that was bad.

BUT

Quite frankly, saying “grab them by the pussy"......bad & offensive words indeed, but referring to no one in specific pales in comparison to some actual deeds which have hurt or damaged real people with names and families.

You know, stuff like taking a bunch of doctors out for a round of golf and then to the most expensive restaurant in town, plying them full of top shelf booze and $500 dollar bottles of wine followed by steaks and cognac all with the deliberate and specific intent of buying their prescription practices. How many people got the wrong or an ineffective med prescribed as a result of that shameless bribe? How many people could not afford a basic necessity of life for themselves or their kids because the medication their doctor prescribed cost so much??
Those people are REAL Chuck. And you made that happen. You may not have grabbed their pussies but you did screw them blue. Ask your victims which crime....Trump's words or your actions.....hurt them more.

[TSherbs]

Chip He is on His throne.

Psalm 2

1 Why do the nations conspire[a]
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord and against his anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.”
4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.

I love that petty, arrogant, vindictive, capricious Lord of the OT. An A+ quality projection of the ills of humanity. The Lord's blemishes in the OT help me remember that perfection isn't the goal, cuz not even God embodies it.

*Laugh* *scoff* *snicker*

"Love thy neighbor"? That's difficult--and divine--enough!

[Chuck Naill]

The Left reminds me of Malachi 2


Breaking Covenant Through Injustice

17 You have wearied the Lord with your words.

“How have we wearied him?” you ask.

By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

What verse comes to mind when you read, “grab them by the pussy”?


Many. Ephesians 4:29 for starters

29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

Want to edit your statement regarding the left? Your man doesn’t weary God with his words?

[Chip]

46: And the LORD spake unto his servant Vladimir, Bomb the crap out of the Ukrainians, for they have conspired against my chosen, Trump, and devise other offenses against my majesty. (And pay particular attention to maternity hospitals, orphanages, and public buildings.)

Funny how people love to make stuff up.

[Bold2013]

Hey you can disagree with my stance on things but I try to be consistent.

[Bold2013]

Trump is not my guy.

[Bold2013]

God in the OT is a lot more long suffering than you realize

[TSherbs]

God in the OT is a lot more long suffering than you realize

God can "suffer"? I've never heard such a thing from a devout Christian. To "suffer" requires imperfection of spirit.

[Bold2013]

long-suf·fer·ing
/ˈlôNG ˈˌsəf(ə)riNG/
adjective
adjective: long-suffering; adjective: longsuffering
having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.
"his long-suffering wife"
Similar:
patient
forbearing

[Chuck Naill]

long-suf·fer·ing
/ˈlôNG ˈˌsəf(ə)riNG/
adjective
adjective: long-suffering; adjective: longsuffering
having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.
"his long-suffering wife"
Similar:
patient
forbearing

Remember the parable of the Ten Virgins where some were left out for not bringing enough oil? The thief on the cross was not prepared, just asked to be remembered. The woman caught in adultery did nothing but respond to Jesus' question that the accusers were no longer present. There are times the text appears hard and others full of grace. I have stopped trying to try and make them mesh. In fact I have stopped trying to make the OT, Jesus, and Paul mesh. Does the scriptures need to be without error to be practical and useful?

If believers are instructed to forgive 70 times 7, why is God not less so?

If someone from Ukraine were to die after their world was destroyed and God would say they were going to everlasting punishment, how is this merciful? What if someone has a horrible disease and struggles their entire life only to die and suffer for eternity. How is this consistent with 70 times 7? Maybe death isn't the final act.

[TSherbs]

long-suf·fer·ing
/ˈlôNG ˈˌsəf(ə)riNG/
adjective
adjective: long-suffering; adjective: longsuffering
having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.
"his long-suffering wife"
Similar:
patient
forbearing

I know the definition. I was making a point about the possibility of God "suffering" or being "troubled" or being anything other than the perfection of equanimity. Does God feel pain or annoyance or disappointment or anger or any of the words for unsettledness or disturbance of serenity and grace? That God, outside of time, could in any way be thought of having to endure any human behavior through time seems to me a conception of God that is less than perfection. IMO.

[Bold2013]

long-suf·fer·ing
/ˈlôNG ˈˌsəf(ə)riNG/
adjective
adjective: long-suffering; adjective: longsuffering
having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.
"his long-suffering wife"
Similar:
patient
forbearing

I know the definition. I was making a point about the possibility of God "suffering" or being "troubled" or being anything other than the perfection of equanimity. Does God feel pain or annoyance or disappointment or anger or any of the words for unsettledness or disturbance of serenity and grace? That God, outside of time, could in any way be thought of having to endure any human behavior through time seems to me a conception of God that is less than perfection. IMO.

Agreed that there are areas which use seemingly inconsistent language for God’s interaction with us. For example God regretted making Saul king. How can God regret something which He being perfect and all powerful was in control of? Many of these issues have been wrestled with by theologians coming to satisfactory answers (at least through a biblical lens, maybe not through a humanistic one admittedly).

[Bold2013]

long-suf·fer·ing
/ˈlôNG ˈˌsəf(ə)riNG/
adjective
adjective: long-suffering; adjective: longsuffering
having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.
"his long-suffering wife"
Similar:
patient
forbearing

Remember the parable of the Ten Virgins where some were left out for not bringing enough oil? The thief on the cross was not prepared, just asked to be remembered. The woman caught in adultery did nothing but respond to Jesus' question that the accusers were no longer present. There are times the text appears hard and others full of grace. I have stopped trying to try and make them mesh. In fact I have stopped trying to make the OT, Jesus, and Paul mesh. Does the scriptures need to be without error to be practical and useful?

If believers are instructed to forgive 70 times 7, why is God not less so?

If someone from Ukraine were to die after their world was destroyed and God would say they were going to everlasting punishment, how is this merciful? What if someone has a horrible disease and struggles their entire life only to die and suffer for eternity. How is this consistent with 70 times 7? Maybe death isn't the final act.

He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. Grace is never owed.

He has forgiven us 7000 x 7000 times.

Why was the one thief on the cross shown mercy and the other justice (neither got injustice)?

[Chuck Naill]

long-suf·fer·ing
/ˈlôNG ˈˌsəf(ə)riNG/
adjective
adjective: long-suffering; adjective: longsuffering
having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.
"his long-suffering wife"
Similar:
patient
forbearing

Remember the parable of the Ten Virgins where some were left out for not bringing enough oil? The thief on the cross was not prepared, just asked to be remembered. The woman caught in adultery did nothing but respond to Jesus' question that the accusers were no longer present. There are times the text appears hard and others full of grace. I have stopped trying to try and make them mesh. In fact I have stopped trying to make the OT, Jesus, and Paul mesh. Does the scriptures need to be without error to be practical and useful?

If believers are instructed to forgive 70 times 7, why is God not less so?

If someone from Ukraine were to die after their world was destroyed and God would say they were going to everlasting punishment, how is this merciful? What if someone has a horrible disease and struggles their entire life only to die and suffer for eternity. How is this consistent with 70 times 7? Maybe death isn't the final act.

He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. Grace is never owed.

He has forgiven us 7000 x 7000 times.

Why was the one thief on the cross shown mercy and the other justice (neither got injustice)?

Yes, I know that's the standard answer, but I find it unsatisfying. I love the words, "those among you without sin, cast the first stone".

[TSherbs]

long-suf·fer·ing
/ˈlôNG ˈˌsəf(ə)riNG/
adjective
adjective: long-suffering; adjective: longsuffering
having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.
"his long-suffering wife"
Similar:
patient
forbearing

I know the definition. I was making a point about the possibility of God "suffering" or being "troubled" or being anything other than the perfection of equanimity. Does God feel pain or annoyance or disappointment or anger or any of the words for unsettledness or disturbance of serenity and grace? That God, outside of time, could in any way be thought of having to endure any human behavior through time seems to me a conception of God that is less than perfection. IMO.

Agreed that there are areas which use seemingly inconsistent language for God’s interaction with us. For example God regretted making Saul king. How can God regret something which He being perfect and all powerful was in control of? Many of these issues have been wrestled with by theologians coming to satisfactory answers (at least through a biblical lens, maybe not through a humanistic one admittedly).

Yes, these theological gymnastics have always struck me as evidence that the documents of the canon are human attempts at spiritual understanding and not the actual "word of God." Any faith that claims literal divine truth (God-talk) of its scripture is, to me, therefore, founded on a lie (the opposite of "truth"). Again, IMO.

[Chuck Naill]

I think of millions of Polish Jews who were singled out by a mad man for being inferior, in his struggled insanity, only to have God send them to hell for rejecting Jesus. That's hard to understand.

[Bold2013]

Agreed the work/gymnastics of understanding some scripture (honestly most of it is plain) makes the circular reasoning of scripture seem more suspect. Sometimes this work is the very element used to drive home truths (Jesus using OT law as a stepping stone to show the spirit and letter of the law are both needed. The Pharisees were so righteous in the letter but there we wicked at heart so Jesus was showing them that they were actually in sin. That is why Jesus says to be saved we need righteousness greater than the Pharisees).

Or in Chucks women caught in adultery Jesus is giving a master class on justice under the law.

The religious leaders had malicious intent to test Jesus, not true zeal for righteousness. For example. Where was the man who was caught in adultery? He should be stoned too.

So Jesus draws something in the dirt and tells them the first without sin cast the first stone. Well in DT 17 the law states the witness without sin is the first to cast the stone. But also in DT 19 the law also requires that any witness guilty of malicious intent was to be stoned instead.

Jesus then wrote on the ground again. Then the religious leaders left (because they were more guilty).

Jesus wrote twice with His finger in regards to the law just as God wrote with finger the 10 commandments twice.

Now it was Jesus and the woman alone. “Woman where are they? Did no one condemn you?… I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.

Why did Jesus not condemn her? Does God not care if we sin? He absolutes does. This passage is all about Jesus’s right usage of the Mosacic Law. No one was to be put to death based on a single witness. Because no witnesses remained it would be unlawful to but her to death.

Forgiveness always precedes the command to sin no more, and forms it’s greatest motivation.

The sad part is that we/I sometimes act like the self righteous scribe rather than the sinner God forgave. He rescued Israel from Egypt before He gave the law. He loved me before I loved Him.

[Chuck Naill]

The account of the woman caught in adultry is consistent with a liberal concepts of gender equality. His use of a Samaritan as the neighbor demonstrates racial equality.

[Bold2013]

The account of the woman caught in adultry is consistent with a liberal concepts of gender equality. His use of a Samaritan as the neighbor demonstrates racial equality.

Both men and woman are created in Gods image for different and wonderful roles. It’s like there is a created order…

[Bold2013]

That’s why it is sin for the clay to tell the potter I’m not what you made me.

*edited for clarity*

[Chuck Naill]

Christian nations and governments have consistently kept women and minorities under white men.

Freedom in early America depended on slavery.

Women and emancipated slaves could not vote.

The struggle for human rights and justice for all had to go through Christian oppression and resistance. And, they memorized the Bible as a part of their education. So, it wasn’t ignorance.

[Chuck Naill]

That’s why it is so offensive for the clay to tell the potter I’m not what you made me.

You tell me.

[Chuck Naill]

I’m reading How the South Won the Civil War by Heather Cox Richardson. She, like Snyder is a academic historian. She teaches at Boston College.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I am reading about the matrix of domination (Patricia Hill Collins). Explains a lot.

[TSherbs]

That’s why it is so offensive for the clay to tell the potter I’m not what you made me.

Do you say this to parents who have corrective surgery for their infant children for birth malformities? Or to persons who seek treatment for disease cures or the relief of pain? Did Jesus himself not use the power of God to heal the lame and the blind...and even resurrect the dead?

Why would gender adjustment receive the scorn of God when manipulating these other God-given aspects of our "clay" would not?

And are you claiming that God Almighty is capable of feeling offended (an act of imperfect ego).

Your posts puzzle me, Bold. I find great inconsistency of principle being expressed in them.

[TSherbs]

I’m reading How the South Won the Civil War by Heather Cox Richardson. She, like Snyder is a academic historian. She teaches at Boston College.
I read Richardson every day. She knows her American history, and provides linked sources for all her references should the reader wish to pursue.

[Bold2013]

That’s why it is so offensive for the clay to tell the potter I’m not what you made me.

Do you say this to parents who have corrective surgery for their infant children for birth malformities? Or to persons who seek treatment for disease cures or the relief of pain? Did Jesus himself not use the power of God to heal the lame and the blind...and even resurrect the dead?

Why would gender adjustment receive the scorn of God when manipulating these other God-given aspects of our "clay" would not?

And are you claiming that God Almighty is capable of feeling offended (an act of imperfect ego).

Your posts puzzle me, Bold. I find great inconsistency of principle being expressed in them.

Sorry you are puzzled. I have no consternation having faith in the God of the Bible and modern medicine (I am a practicing physician).

[Chuck Naill]

One can be a disciple of Jesus and not accept the infallibility of the Bible, believe in Hell, or hold to a political party.

Religious groupthink can destroy the teachings. Some pastors don’t tolerate any questioning of their interpretations.

Sadly the scriptures used in Christianity have been distorted to do great harm to humanity.

People are often taught to quote rather than think.

[TSherbs]

That’s why it is so offensive for the clay to tell the potter I’m not what you made me.

Why would gender adjustment receive the scorn of God when manipulating these other God-given aspects of our "clay" would not?.

Bold, I thought that you might address this question more directly.

[Chuck Naill]

There was a previous reference to pottery. White southern ministers used the concept of social hierarchy to rationalize slavery rejecting the Enlightenment concept of equality.

[TSherbs]

I am reading about the matrix of domination (Patricia Hill Collins). Explains a lot.

Indeed it does. I have not read this book, but I am familiar with the theory. I am a member of an anti-racist adult group and we have discussed it there (admittedly, rather informally).

[Chip]

All this of Pot and Potter—Tell me then,
Who is the Potter, pray, and who the Pot?

—Omar Khayyám The Rubáiyát

https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2008/dec/29/poem-week-edward-fitzgerald

[dneal]

An observation: the more heated your name-calling and invective, the less effect it has (on me at least).

In fact, when you tell me I "suck" at your cheap little game, it feels like a compliment.

Once again, if my barbs never hit home, why are you compelled to reply?

Oh Chippy, this is your cheap little game. You initiated this when you apparently were compelled to add your snark as I was replying to TSherbs’ post (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/33129-Speaking-of-conspiracy-theories?p=359461&viewfull=1#post359461), and my pointing out another of Chuck’s lies (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/36624-Thread-for-snipe-snark-and-ad-hominem-grandstanding?p=360053&viewfull=1#post360053).

The hypocrisy of you crying about snark is right up there with Chuck whining about everyone else being a troll. The irony of the projection is delicious. I told you when you got here - don’t be a dick and I won’t either. You don’t seem to be able to help yourself.

I once hoped you could come up with something clever, but now I simply enjoy spiking your pathetic volleys.

The question you should be asking is why you are compelled to reply.

[TSherbs]

All this of Pot and Potter—Tell me then,
Who is the Potter, pray, and who the Pot?

—Omar Khayyám The Rubáiyát
How can we know the dancer from the dance?

--Yeats

[Bold2013]

That’s why it is so offensive for the clay to tell the potter I’m not what you made me.

Why would gender adjustment receive the scorn of God when manipulating these other God-given aspects of our "clay" would not?.

Bold, I thought that you might address this question more directly.

I don’t think it’s wrong to seek healing or restoration of function (in the general sense). Sometimes it’s part of His will other time it is not. I think people with gender dysphoria seeking counseling to address their the problem would be wonderful.

[TSherbs]

That’s why it is so offensive for the clay to tell the potter I’m not what you made me.

Why would gender adjustment receive the scorn of God when manipulating these other God-given aspects of our "clay" would not?.

Bold, I thought that you might address this question more directly.

I don’t think it’s wrong to seek healing or restoration of function (in the general sense). Sometimes it’s part of His will other time it is not. I think people with gender dysphoria seeking counseling to address their the problem would be wonderful.

Thanks, but I asked a different question.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

All this of Pot and Potter—Tell me then,
Who is the Potter, pray, and who the Pot?

—Omar Khayyám The Rubáiyát
How can we know the dancer from the dance?

--Yeats

Pots are fashioned from clay but it's the hollow that make a pot work

--Laozi (transl. Red Pine)

[Chip]

Pots are fashioned from clay but it's the hollow that makes a pot work
--Laozi (transl. Red Pine)

Red Pine (Bill Porter) also did a translation of one of my favorite poets: Han Shan.

https://i.imgur.com/07faJOv.jpg

[TSherbs]

Pots are fashioned from clay but it's the hollow that makes a pot work
--Laozi (transl. Red Pine)

Red Pine (Bill Porter) also did a translation of one of my favorite poets: Han Shan.

https://i.imgur.com/07faJOv.jpg

I've got a Cold Mountain collection. Fabulous.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I am a big fan of the 'art poets' so may have to look for a copy of Cold Mountain. That book cover is an image to ponder!

[Chip]

Heard about Han Shan from a fellow poet, Gary Snyder, who translated some of his poems years ago.

Born Thirty Years Ago

Thirty years ago I was born into the world.
A thousand, ten thousand miles I've roamed.
By rivers where the green grass grows thick,
Beyond the border where the red sands fly.
I brewed potions in a vain search for life everlasting,
I read books, I sang songs of history,
And today I've come home to Cold Mountain
To pillow my head on the stream and wash my ears.

According to oral tradition, Han Shan (Cold Mountain) and his mate Shih-Te were hermits who fled to the mountains of eastern China, where they carved poems into the cliffs, during the T'ang Dynasty. No one knows who he was, when he lived and died, or whether he actually existed. In the Chinese Buddhist tradition, Han Shan and his sidekick Shih-Te are honored as emanations of the bodhisattvas Mañjuśrī and Samantabhadra.

Before Red Pine's work, the only available translation of the whole collection was by Burton Watson.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Cool.

I didn't know about the connection with the Beats (another area of special interest for me). I have three books by Barry Miles styled as portraits of Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs, and I don't recall any mention of this connection. Just checking the indexes of each is similarly unrevealing.

[Chuck Naill]

“ Congratulations to Viktor Orban on winning a victory well deserved! He’s leading Hungary the right way and we need this in America.”
Majorie Taylor Green

Orban is an ally of Putin and slammed Ukrainian President. He is an authoritarian.

Americans need to understand what their elected office holders think.

[724Seney]

“ Congratulations to Viktor Orban on winning a victory well deserved! He’s leading Hungary the right way and we need this in America.”
Majorie Taylor Green

Orban is an ally of Putin and slammed Ukrainian President. He is an authoritarian.

Americans need to understand what their elected office holders think.

I assume you mean those that CAN think?

Unfortunately your boy Joe is brain dead.
Glad to post some well documented quotes if you wish.

And Kamela???
Don't get me started!!!!!

[Bold2013]

Hey dementia is no laughing matter.

[TSherbs]

“ Congratulations to Viktor Orban on winning a victory well deserved! He’s leading Hungary the right way and we need this in America.”
Majorie Taylor Green....

Oh, Georgia. She's yours.

[TSherbs]

Heard about Han Shan from a fellow poet, Gary Snyder, who translated some of his poems years ago.

Born Thirty Years Ago

Thirty years ago I was born into the world.
A thousand, ten thousand miles I've roamed.
By rivers where the green grass grows thick,
Beyond the border where the red sands fly.
I brewed potions in a vain search for life everlasting,
I read books, I sang songs of history,
And today I've come home to Cold Mountain
To pillow my head on the stream and wash my ears.

According to oral tradition, Han Shan (Cold Mountain) and his mate Shih-Te were hermits who fled to the mountains of eastern China, where they carved poems into the cliffs, during the T'ang Dynasty. No one knows who he was, when he lived and died, or whether he actually existed. In the Chinese Buddhist tradition, Han Shan and his sidekick Shih-Te are honored as emanations of the bodhisattvas Mañjuśrī and Samantabhadra.

Before Red Pine's work, the only available translation of the whole collection was by Burton Watson.

This is my edition/translation (Shambhala Press, 2009)

https://i.imgur.com/SfcOJvp.jpg?1

[Empty_of_Clouds]

It can be difficult choosing among translations, so I guess I should try and find some examples of the same poems translated by different people and see which I prefer.

[TSherbs]

It can be difficult choosing among translations, so I guess I should try and find some examples of the same poems translated by different people and see which I prefer.

Like inks in sample vials? :tea:

[TSherbs]

Heard about Han Shan from a fellow poet, Gary Snyder, who translated some of his poems years ago.

Born Thirty Years Ago

Thirty years ago I was born into the world.
A thousand, ten thousand miles I've roamed.
By rivers where the green grass grows thick,
Beyond the border where the red sands fly.
I brewed potions in a vain search for life everlasting,
I read books, I sang songs of history,
And today I've come home to Cold Mountain
To pillow my head on the stream and wash my ears..

EOC,
For what it is worth, here is the same poem from the translation by Seaton (Shambhala):

XLVII (Han Shan)

I was born just thirty years ago,
but I’ve wandered a million miles already.
Along the River through the green grass on the banks,
out to the borderlands, where the red dust roils.
Chewed herbs, cooked up alchemical elixirs,
trying to become an Immortal.
Read all the Writings, chanted the Histories aloud,
trying to learn them all by heart . . .
Today I’m on my way
home to Cold Mountain.
There, I’ll bed down in the creek,
just to wash out my ears.

[Chip]

This is my edition/translation (Shambhala Press, 2009)
https://i.imgur.com/SfcOJvp.jpg?1

That's gorgeous. A belated birthday present, perhaps.

[Chip]

https://i.imgur.com/4WpX3QL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/sqsYEWe.jpg

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Looked for a copy of 'The clouds should know me by now...' at the Book Depo (best prices anywhere!). Not in print alas. :/

[724Seney]

Being allowed to or able to interpret information differently is consistent with being an individual. There is a danger in any society when people use name calling and intimidation because others do not share their opinions. Opinions are not facts

Hypocrisy 101
As taught by Professor Chuck Naill
Teaching Assistants: Teddy & Chippy

[TSherbs]

Looked for a copy of 'The clouds should know me by now...' at the Book Depo (best prices anywhere!). Not in print alas. :/

This title I don't know.

[Chip]

It can be difficult choosing among translations, so I guess I should try and find some examples of the same poems translated by different people and see which I prefer.

I enjoy comparing translations, with several versions of The Iliad, The Odyssey, Beowulf, and other classics on my shelves.

Here's a link to an article I liked.

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/englishing-the-iliad-grading-four-rival-translations

I studied Mandarin for a while and tried some interlineal translations, writing the literal meaning for each character, then constructing poetic lines.

Leaving town for the Wind River Mountains
(after 'Farewell to Wei-feng, Going to Far-South Mountain'
by the monk Hsi-Chou.)

On the Divide, new grasses under frost.
Below, the bent pines limp in crowds.
Climbing here to stare out from the edge
past melting snow, gone, a thousand miles.

A gasp for breath, this wanderer, this ghost.
All this deadwood--let it lie unburnt.
How many summits probe the moon's full breast?
And then, voices cry out from the dark.

[TSherbs]

It can be difficult choosing among translations, so I guess I should try and find some examples of the same poems translated by different people and see which I prefer.

I enjoy comparing translations, with several versions of The Iliad, The Odyssey, Beowulf, and other classics on my shelves.

Here's a link to an article I liked.

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/englishing-the-iliad-grading-four-rival-translations

I studied Mandarin for a while and tried some interlineal translations, writing the literal meaning for each character, then constructing poetic lines.

Leaving town for the Wind River Mountains
(after 'Farewell to Wei-feng, Going to Far-South Mountain'
by the monk Hsi-Chou.)

On the Divide, new grasses under frost.
Below, the bent pines limp in crowds.
Climbing here to stare out from the edge
past melting snow, gone, a thousand miles.

A gasp for breath, this wanderer, this ghost.
All this deadwood--let it lie unburnt.
How many summits probe the moon's full breast?
And then, voices cry out from the dark.


I love the line about bent pines that limp in crowds. Nicely done!

[Chip]

I love the line about bent pines that limp in crowds. Nicely done!

I should dig out the worksheet for that one to see what the original characters were. Sam Hamill, head of Copper Canyon Press (which published the Red Pine translations) gave a workshop when I was a grad student, many years ago. Interesting guy. He died in 2018. He liked the translation, but turned down my first book.

[TSherbs]

I love the line about bent pines that limp in crowds. Nicely done!

I should dig out the worksheet for that one to see what the original characters were. Sam Hamill, head of Copper Canyon Press (which published the Red Pine translations) gave a workshop when I was a grad student, many years ago. Interesting guy. He died in 2018. He liked the translation, but turned down my first book.

Were you a grad student at Iowa?

[Chip]

Were you a grad student at Iowa?

At that point, I was working on a Masters in Literature and Linguistics at Utah State. My lit prof, Tom Lyon (who gave me my first fountain pen) was a magnet for writers such as Wallace Stegner, Gary Snyder, Sam Hamill, Edward Abbey, Scot Momaday, Barre Toelken, William Stafford, and many others. So I was able to meet them, take their classes and seminars, and make friends.

Later, I was a Stegner Fellow in the Stanford graduate writing workshop. Iowa was the second-oldest writing program in the US, and the arch enemy as far as the Stanford folks were concerned. When my fellowship was done, rather than jump on the creative writing career track, I returned to my job as a backcountry grazing cop in Wyoming, which really pissed them off.

[TSherbs]

Do you like Snyder's writing? A few of the Beats are in my pantheon of poetic American gods.

[Chip]

Do you like Snyder's writing? A few of the Beats are in my pantheon of poetic American gods.

I think he's a very good poet and a dedicated scholar, who is less shackled by vanity and self-regard than many. He just turned 91. He's won most of the major awards for poetry in the US.

Snyder lived with Philip Whalen, one of the premier Beats and a follower of the Soto school of Zen Buddhism. Jack Kerouac based a character (Japhy Ryder) on him for The Dharma Bums, with accounts of backcountry trips. Snyder later started a homestead/commune (Kitkitdizze) in the woods that was a magnet for creative types.

My best memory is of sitting across a campfire in Logan Canyon, Utah, as we roared out sea chanties. He knows lots of old songs.

[TSherbs]

Awesome. I'm jealous! I love his writing.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Does that mean we here are all now two degrees of separation away from actual Beat poets? Fabulous!

[Chip]

While I know Snyder well enough to call him Gary, and corresponded a bit, we weren't best mates or anything.

Being a writer, I met and spent time with quite a few of the greats.

Still, dropping the names of writers who were better-known and more successful than me (a long list) can be slightly depressing.

I wrote the books I wanted to write, made a bit of money, and had some recognition, but no Pulitzer.

[Chuck Naill]

While I know Snyder well enough to call him Gary, and corresponded a bit, we weren't best mates or anything.

Being a writer, I met and spent time with quite a few of the greats.

Still, dropping the names of writers who were better-known and more successful than me (a long list) can be slightly depressing.

I wrote the books I wanted to write, made a bit of money, and had some recognition, but no Pulitzer.

Tiger Woods made $43,000 yesterday coming in #47. Congrats on making what you did.

[Chip]

Tiger Woods made $43,000 yesterday coming in #47. Congrats on making what you did.

A $100,000 book advance ain't exactly peanuts. :)

[Chuck Naill]

Tiger Woods made $43,000 yesterday coming in #47. Congrats on making what you did.

A $100,000 book advance ain't exactly peanuts. :)
Wonderful!!

[ethernautrix]

While I know Snyder well enough to call him Gary, and corresponded a bit, we weren't best mates or anything.

Being a writer, I met and spent time with quite a few of the greats.

Still, dropping the names of writers who were better-known and more successful than me (a long list) can be slightly depressing.

I wrote the books I wanted to write, made a bit of money, and had some recognition, but no Pulitzer.

I'm envious! I'd like to invite myself to your dinner parties. 🐨

[Chip]

I'm envious! I'd like to invite myself to your dinner parties. 🐨

Hypothetically fun, but rather few, these days. We live far off the travelled routes, so writers on the road can't pop in. My darling has immune system issues and most of our friends are elders, so we've been lying rather low. Meanwhile the nice wine in the cellar has been aging and we have quite a few prime bottles that ought to be cracked. I'm looking forward to warm weather and grill parties.

Most of my encounters with the greats, both recognised and obscure, took place on the writing circuit: the round of book festivals, workshops, readings, conferences, etc. that offered lots of after-hours engagement. But I've pretty much retired from the glamourous world of publishing. Which I don't miss, much.

To every thing there is a season. . .

Nice to see you here again.

[ethernautrix]

Oh wow, been a month since my last foray here. So much to slog through. Heh.

I still want an invitation to, say, one of your grill parties. Hahaha. I mean, obviously just a gesture and as a nod to your experiences and your own stories.

Warm greetings from Wrocław!

[Chip]

Good to see you surface in our troubled sea.

https://i.imgur.com/3b73enQ.jpg

Some of us have been behaving better and some worse.

You missed a session with the grill yesterday. Ever had Chicken Adobo? It's a Filipino recipe: chicken (I use thighs) parboiled in soy sauce, vinegar, and garlic, with a couple bay leaves. You take it hot out of the marinade and char it on the grill.

https://i.imgur.com/DYpMm5E.jpg

Served with basmati rice, cole slaw with a sriracha mayo dressing, and a Muller-Thurgau riesling.

[Chuck Naill]

Not a fan of thighs! Enjoy otherwise!!👍👍👍

[Chip]

Warm greetings from Wrocław!

I'd barely heard of Wroclaw (astonishing how ignorant we Yanks can be). So I searched it. A major city in the Polish southwest, dating from the 10th century.

What a beautiful place!

https://i.imgur.com/kbm3TP4.jpg

[TSherbs]

Bump

[ethernautrix]

I love Wrocław! I'd share photos here, but those are on the other phone.

Wild shot: Anyone use a photo-resizer app one'd recommend?

[dneal]

I love Wrocław! I'd share photos here, but those are on the other phone.

Wild shot: Anyone use a photo-resizer app one'd recommend?

What operating system?

[ethernautrix]

Android version 9

[Chip]

Since having a host site for photos seems to work best on this forum, you might try imgur.com.

It has resizing and basic edit functions.

[Lloyd]

Android version 9
Here's the APK for ReducePhotoSize. It's discontinued but still works (I just tested it).http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/629d15bd69c31/Reduce%20Photo%20Size%201.0.26_28.apk


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[ethernautrix]

Ever had Chicken Adobo? It's a Filipino recipe: chicken (I use thighs) parboiled in soy sauce, vinegar, and garlic, with a couple bay leaves. You take it hot out of the marinade and char it on the grill.

https://i.imgur.com/DYpMm5E.jpg

Served with basmati rice, cole slaw with a sriracha mayo dressing, and a Muller-Thurgau riesling.

I forgot to mention how mouth-watering that Chicken Adobo looks! Dang! I really did miss something tasty!


I had a"pro" Flickr acount until they doubled the annual fee. Deleted some hundreds or thousands of photos to bring the number to under the limit for a free account (1,000).

I have two phones (long story), and one of them takes better photos and the resizing app is on the other. I suppose I could use the same resizing app, but I wondered if there were any recommendations.

I clicked on Lloyd's link (Hi, Lloyd! Thanks!), but I haven't clicked on the link at the link yet. (That's on the other phone.)

[Chuck Naill]

Ever had Chicken Adobo? It's a Filipino recipe: chicken (I use thighs) parboiled in soy sauce, vinegar, and garlic, with a couple bay leaves. You take it hot out of the marinade and char it on the grill.

https://i.imgur.com/DYpMm5E.jpg

Served with basmati rice, cole slaw with a sriracha mayo dressing, and a Muller-Thurgau riesling.

I forgot to mention how mouth-watering that Chicken Adobo looks! Dang! I really did miss something tasty!


I had a"pro" Flickr acount until they doubled the annual fee. Deleted some hundreds or thousands of photos to bring the number to under the limit for a free account (1,000).

I have two phones (long story), and one of them takes better photos and the resizing app is on the other. I suppose I could use the same resizing app, but I wondered if there were any recommendations.

I clicked on Lloyd's link (Hi, Lloyd! Thanks!), but I haven't clicked on the link at the link yet. (That's on the other phone.)

Was this a "drunk post"?

[Chip]

I have two phones (long story), and one of them takes better photos and the resizing app is on the other. I suppose I could use the same resizing app, but I wondered if there were any recommendations.

Have an iPad, but don't know about phones (mine's really dumb.) Just read about this update:

"With Android 13, Google is trying to create a blue bubble experience of its own. The company is building into its messaging app a technology called Rich Communication Services, which can send high-resolution images and large files."

[ethernautrix]

Thanks, Chip. Android's up to 13? I suppose I'll make do with the same app I'm using on my other phone.

[Lloyd]

Thanks, Chip. Android's up to 13? I suppose I'll make do with the same app I'm using on my other phone.
The app I attached above will work for you, Lisa. It's not stellar but it works for both old and new Android builds.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

If you use Samsung (I have an S21), their photo editor has a resize in the edit field. Tap the three buttons on the right and it's on the bottom row of options.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220609/0da3bc263249d0e3a08c4f126630b8ed.jpg
Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[ethernautrix]

Thanks, Adam. I think this is an old phone, but for bureaucratic reasons, I can't upgrade or change the plan.

It looks like the forum software resized the two photos I uploaded recently, but I'll click on your link and give that a whirl. Thanks, again!