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Paul-H
August 14th, 2013, 11:51 AM
Hi guys

This a warning for anyone using or thinking of using the Auction Stealer Snipping service.

I used it today and after entering the auction number it asked for my highest bid in USD which I did and in this case I bid $375 USD As my maximum, but when the auction ended it had placed my bid at £375 UKP, so I ended up winning with a high bid of £327 which is a lot more than I wanted to pay a more than I could buy the item for new, it was a Pelikan M1000 I was bidding on, and they are £310 new. So now I have a seller wanting me to pay the final price and there being no way am I going to do that.

Just watch out if you are using Auction Stealer.

Paul

jar
August 14th, 2013, 12:04 PM
But you bid that.

Why shouldn't you pay it?

tandaina
August 14th, 2013, 12:07 PM
The sniping service is NOT bidding in dollars, it is plugging NUMBERS into a box. You told it to bid up to 375. It has no way of knowing the auction isn't in US funds. Sorry to say this I an expensive user error issue.

Paul-H
August 14th, 2013, 12:23 PM
Wrong the site clearly showed I was bidding in USD, I will post a screen capture that's shows this.

As you can see it clearly shows USD and not just a number

4718

Flounder
August 14th, 2013, 12:26 PM
Well, that's confusing. I generally don't bother with these sniper dodads. I just go by my wristwatch if putting in a late bid.

tandaina
August 14th, 2013, 12:29 PM
Sorry, I used to be in software. What I'm saying is that $ sign is just a symbol. What they aren't telling you is that they don't have an API to eBay that lets them know if the auction is foreign. And what eSnipe or Auction Stealer, etc does is actually plug a number into the bid box on eBay and presses the necessary buttons, etc. (Essentially). I'm saying that no matter what their site shows, they aren't tightly coupled enough with eBay (eBay doesn't want them to be, they don't want you sniping they want you doing it manually and getting into the heat of the moment and raising your bid over and over) to be able to make the translation you want them to make.

If you tell them go to 375 that to them IS just a number. Now, you MIGHT be able to take the SNIPING service to court for failure to provide the service they advertise, but I'm guessing somewhere in their fine print they likely say that this service is not intended for foreign currency auctions and to use at your own risk. I'd be surprised if they didn't. Remember, all these sites are by nature a little shady. They want your money, they don't give a hoot if you get messed up in the process.

Your issue is with the sniping service, not eBay. eBay can force you to pay. Your recourse would be to show the sniping service their own screen shot and then the ACTUAL won auction, and then hope to heck they don't have a "don't use with foreign currency auctions" disclaimer. Sorry. :(

jar
August 14th, 2013, 01:14 PM
You need to be aware of what currency the auction is using and make sure you adjust your bids. That is YOUR responsibility.

This is a relatively cheap lesson though.

Laura N
August 14th, 2013, 01:25 PM
I have to agree with the others. Bidders probably are deemed to know what they are bidding on, including the currency. But clearly you made a mistake here. I'd take that approach, rather than blaming your sniping service. Maybe apologize to the seller profusely and tell him you didn't realize your bid was entered in pounds instead of dollars. One can hope he'll be a nice guy, and then you can give him wonderful feedback.

Paul-H
August 14th, 2013, 01:48 PM
If you look at the first figure in the screen grab above it shows 153.25 that is the dollerc conversion of the £99 that the auction was at when I entered my bid, so they knew full well what they where showing.

I have been using auction stealer for years and never had this happen before.

I was just trying to warn forum members that something was not working right, that's all, shan't bother again though.

Bye

mmahany
August 14th, 2013, 02:15 PM
I think you have a valid dispute, but it has nothing to do with the seller. You are obligated to pay him/her. They have done nothing wrong.
Your dispute should be with “Auction Stealer.” Judging by the screen shot, you are paying them for a service that has not performed properly. There is an obligation on their part to fulfill the promises on their website.

At this point, you should pay the seller for the pen. You may consider telling them that you made a mistake and accidentally entered your max bid in U.S. dollars (which is true). Offer to pay for their listing or send them a tiny bit of money for the trouble.

I would then take the issue up with Auction Stealer. Ask them for a refund or for free months of use. They aren’t required to compensate you for your damages, but they are required to deliver a properly working service that you pay for.

Short answer: this isn’t the seller’s fault. Try and reach a friendly agreement, but if you can’t you need to pay for the pen. Take your beef up with the software company and remind them that you’ve been using their service for years.

This is the equivalent of waiting until the last minute to do an online test for school, and then having your internet fail. It’s not the professor’s fault that your internet failed, it’s yours.

I like mango pudding
August 14th, 2013, 04:33 PM
yeah, I think you are hooped with regards to the final price you have to pay. You have to take it up with the sniping site, not the ebay seller. I manually snipe myself. I still get that thrill at the last few seconds. I love the rush. Sniping sites just spoil the fun in all that.

Marsilius
August 14th, 2013, 06:53 PM
I would like to think that if presented as a seller with your evidence, I would be understanding and not hold you to the sale, on the grounds that it would somehow be good business sense and ethics. Maybe the auction thing is not quite the same as buying in a store, but it still seems like grounds for granting a request as a courtesy (though of course entirely up to the seller).

Also, in your shoes, I would be hopping up and down mad, because it sure looks like a mess up.

Finally, I never did figure out sniping much anyway. If I put my highest willing price, someone will either bid higher or not. On those few times the adrenaline got going, I usually bid too high anyway. But it is a good thing I am NOT in business, because I would sink in a skinny minute.

Good luck!

79spitfire
August 14th, 2013, 08:46 PM
I agree you need to settle up with the seller, your problem is the sniper software. Thank you for letting us know the software has a bug in it and improperly calculates bids when set to US dollars.

Having said that, I can't help but feel a bit of evil pleasure. I've lost huge numbers of pens by being sniped by $1-2 after bidding reasonable amounts for them, and the auction history showing 2 bidders, the sniper and I. :mad:

Enjoy your new pen!

velo
August 15th, 2013, 02:00 AM
yeah, I think you are hooped with regards to the final price you have to pay. You have to take it up with the sniping site, not the ebay seller. I manually snipe myself. I still get that thrill at the last few seconds. I love the rush. Sniping sites just spoil the fun in all that.


I agree you need to settle up with the seller, your problem is the sniper software. Thank you for letting us know the software has a bug in it and improperly calculates bids when set to US dollars.

Having said that, I can't help but feel a bit of evil pleasure. I've lost huge numbers of pens by being sniped by $1-2 after bidding reasonable amounts for them, and the auction history showing 2 bidders, the sniper and I. :mad:

Enjoy your new pen!

True that.

drgoretex
August 15th, 2013, 06:54 AM
So now I have a seller wanting me to pay the final price and there being no way am I going to do that.


Sorry, but feeling a bit sympathy-challenged here. Not only do I agree with 79 Spitfire on how irritating snipers are when you are doing some legitimate bidding, but worse, you did bid the amount you bid. How is it reasonable to say that you have no intention of paying it? This is just the kind of attitude that makes it difficult and unpleasant to be an eBay seller.

Ken

david i
August 15th, 2013, 08:35 AM
So now I have a seller wanting me to pay the final price and there being no way am I going to do that.


Sorry, but feeling a bit sympathy-challenged here. Not only do I agree with 79 Spitfire on how irritating snipers are when you are doing some legitimate bidding, but worse, you did bid the amount you bid. How is it reasonable to say that you have no intention of paying it? This is just the kind of attitude that makes it difficult and unpleasant to be an eBay seller.

Ken

Contrasting "Sniper" with "Legitimate Bidding" of course represents a deep misunderstanding of the auction process.

However, it is quite true the bidder has obligation to pay the seller in this case.

regards

david

david i
August 15th, 2013, 08:38 AM
I agree you need to settle up with the seller, your problem is the sniper software. Thank you for letting us know the software has a bug in it and improperly calculates bids when set to US dollars.

Having said that, I can't help but feel a bit of evil pleasure. I've lost huge numbers of pens by being sniped by $1-2 after bidding reasonable amounts for them, and the auction history showing 2 bidders, the sniper and I. :mad:

Enjoy your new pen!


Actually, generally you don't know how much the higher bidder bid, in auctions you lost to a more aggressive bidder.

regards

david

Ernst Bitterman
August 15th, 2013, 10:05 AM
I will certainly continue my policy of not using sniper services after seeing this, so I honestly thank the OP for confirming my notions. I think he is probably firmly on the hook regarding paying the seller, though, as join in urging him to reserve his venom for the service (eBay is blameworthy in many things, but in this I think they're clear).

Tony Rex
August 15th, 2013, 10:14 PM
I was just trying to warn forum members that something was not working right, that's all, shan't bother again though.

Bye

Don't be like that mate. We know you've got a case against the snipping 'service provider', but you forgot that lots of people lost on really high bids, thus the non symphaty comments above. And I do think it's unfair to the seller and the second highest bidder (which was the first and second last bidder!) if you don't pay. Because if you could get away.. you'd get a new pen, he gets a used pen for 310 GBP and an unwanted roller coaster ride. Yeah?

I second guys above in thanking you for the warning, and don't worry about it.

Tony

CS388
August 16th, 2013, 04:46 AM
Paul-H: Don't be uncool about it. Yes, do bother to warn us again - it's useful for us all to know. Thanks

Re. the case in point. Yes, looks like you were shafted by the sniping service small print. I have no knowledge of how software works, but Tandaina's explanation (above) seems valid. One for us all to keep our eyes on. It's a shame that you had to fall foul of it, in order for us to learn.

Have you contacted the seller and explained (including your screen shot)? I'd hope they'd understand and you can both negotiate an agreeable conclusion?
Have you contacted the sniping service?

Fingers crossed.

jar
August 16th, 2013, 06:42 AM
The lesson to be learned is that bids are placed in the currency of the auction. If the listing is on eBay UK it will be in GBP. Know where the auction really is what the default currency will be. Before placing a bid convert to that currency.

There really isn't an issue I see with either the sniping service or the auction. As consumers or sellers we need to know how stuff works. That is our responsibility. Just like buying at an auction house we need to know what fees will be added to closing prices (often 25% ) we need to understand where auctions are really happening and what currency is being used.

Penne Stilografiche
August 17th, 2013, 07:10 PM
So now I have a seller wanting me to pay the final price and there being no way am I going to do that.


Sorry, but feeling a bit sympathy-challenged here. Not only do I agree with 79 Spitfire on how irritating snipers are when you are doing some legitimate bidding, but worse, you did bid the amount you bid. How is it reasonable to say that you have no intention of paying it? This is just the kind of attitude that makes it difficult and unpleasant to be an eBay seller.

Ken

Contrasting "Sniper" with "Legitimate Bidding" of course represents a deep misunderstanding of the auction process.

However, it is quite true the bidder has obligation to pay the seller in this case.

regards

david

Hi David,
Please check your emails when you get the chance.
Best Regards
Vincenzo

david i
August 18th, 2013, 05:19 PM
I've been lax on emails this week (uhh... month). I don't see an PMs via FPG. Did you email me?

regards

david

snedwos
August 18th, 2013, 06:03 PM
The lesson to be learned is that bids are placed in the currency of the auction. If the listing is on eBay UK it will be in GBP. Know where the auction really is what the default currency will be. Before placing a bid convert to that currency.

There really isn't an issue I see with either the sniping service or the auction. As consumers or sellers we need to know how stuff works. That is our responsibility. Just like buying at an auction house we need to know what fees will be added to closing prices (often 25% ) we need to understand where auctions are really happening and what currency is being used.

The thing is, the sniping program was making it look as if it had converted 99 pounds to $153. But I have to say, I don't particularly sympathise very with someone who is using automatic sniping software...

Penne Stilografiche
August 18th, 2013, 06:42 PM
I've been lax on emails this week (uhh... month). I don't see an PMs via FPG. Did you email me?
regards

david

yep.

david i
August 18th, 2013, 07:42 PM
I've been lax on emails this week (uhh... month). I don't see an PMs via FPG. Did you email me?
regards

david

yep.

I'll check. This month crazy. Next month much calmer.

regards

david

79spitfire
August 18th, 2013, 09:44 PM
I agree you need to settle up with the seller, your problem is the sniper software. Thank you for letting us know the software has a bug in it and improperly calculates bids when set to US dollars.

Having said that, I can't help but feel a bit of evil pleasure. I've lost huge numbers of pens by being sniped by $1-2 after bidding reasonable amounts for them, and the auction history showing 2 bidders, the sniper and I. :mad:

Enjoy your new pen!


Actually, generally you don't know how much the higher bidder bid, in auctions you lost to a more aggressive bidder.

regards

david

I understand that david, I figure prices based on needing to repair/restore the pen, paying 'top dollar' doesn't make sense to me. When I'm ready to pay 'full price' I'll talk to someone like yourself, who sells restored pens at the proper price.

david i
August 18th, 2013, 11:56 PM
I agree you need to settle up with the seller, your problem is the sniper software. Thank you for letting us know the software has a bug in it and improperly calculates bids when set to US dollars.

Having said that, I can't help but feel a bit of evil pleasure. I've lost huge numbers of pens by being sniped by $1-2 after bidding reasonable amounts for them, and the auction history showing 2 bidders, the sniper and I. :mad:

Enjoy your new pen!


Actually, generally you don't know how much the higher bidder bid, in auctions you lost to a more aggressive bidder.

regards

david

I understand that david, I figure prices based on needing to repair/restore the pen, paying 'top dollar' doesn't make sense to me. When I'm ready to pay 'full price' I'll talk to someone like yourself, who sells restored pens at the proper price.

Hi,

Oh, I'm fine with each of us deciding for himself how much something is worth to him ;)

I just had hoped to clarify that even seeming to lose an auction by $10 doesn't preclude the high bidder have bid, say, $1000 more than the final number showing, d/t ebay's method of figuring bids. Sometimes people don't realize ebay only uses one increment of bidding no matter how high the secret max bid entered.

regards

david

79spitfire
August 19th, 2013, 06:55 AM
I agree you need to settle up with the seller, your problem is the sniper software. Thank you for letting us know the software has a bug in it and improperly calculates bids when set to US dollars.

Having said that, I can't help but feel a bit of evil pleasure. I've lost huge numbers of pens by being sniped by $1-2 after bidding reasonable amounts for them, and the auction history showing 2 bidders, the sniper and I. :mad:

Enjoy your new pen!


Actually, generally you don't know how much the higher bidder bid, in auctions you lost to a more aggressive bidder.

regards

david

I understand that david, I figure prices based on needing to repair/restore the pen, paying 'top dollar' doesn't make sense to me. When I'm ready to pay 'full price' I'll talk to someone like yourself, who sells restored pens at the proper price.

Hi,

Oh, I'm fine with each of us deciding for himself how much something is worth to him ;)

I just had hoped to clarify that even seeming to lose an auction by $10 doesn't preclude the high bidder have bid, say, $1000 more than the final number showing, d/t ebay's method of figuring bids. Sometimes people don't realize ebay only uses one increment of bidding no matter how high the secret max bid entered.

regards

david

That brings up a good point the OP needs to consider, someone had bid one increment less than his 'winning' bid.

BTW, Thank you david, I do understand how Ebay works, a wining bid is always one increment higher, no matter what the actual bid number is, or it's source. I would think that sniper services are bad for sellers, as they never allow for an auction 'frenzy' on average items. (you really didn't think I was griping about not getting a first year Parker 51 for $10 did you??? :crazy_pilot: )

pencils+pens
August 19th, 2013, 01:00 PM
[QUOTE=david i;43129]I would think that sniper services are bad for sellers, as they never allow for an auction 'frenzy' on average items.

They are no worse for sellers than buyers who eschew using them and manually snipe in the last few seconds of an auction. I don't use a sniping service but I snipe. If the bid is already higher than what I planned on bidding, I don't bid.

david i
August 19th, 2013, 05:08 PM
[QUOTE=david i;43129]I would think that sniper services are bad for sellers, as they never allow for an auction 'frenzy' on average items.

They are no worse for sellers than buyers who eschew using them and manually snipe in the last few seconds of an auction. I don't use a sniping service but I snipe. If the bid is already higher than what I planned on bidding, I don't bid.

Hi,

Please note that the first quote is not from me.

regards

david

david i
August 19th, 2013, 05:12 PM
That brings up a good point the OP needs to consider, someone had bid one increment less than his 'winning' bid.

BTW, Thank you david, I do understand how Ebay works, a wining bid is always one increment higher, no matter what the actual bid number is, or it's source. I would think that sniper services are bad for sellers, as they never allow for an auction 'frenzy' on average items. (you really didn't think I was griping about not getting a first year Parker 51 for $10 did you??? :crazy_pilot: )

Hi,

I wasn't too worried whether you know ebay as I know ebay ;)

But, that quote way back when offered lack of clarity in the words showing. So... i dived in... for those who might not know.

Yes, Ebay's approach to the Game Theory of auctions offers limitations to perpetual bidding, and thus in some cases might see lower fees for what prove to be lower final prices, via ebay's choice not to enable the nibblers. But, the strategy of favoring sniping over nibbling has benefits too. Correlation of course does not prove causation, but I do well recall internet auctions sites that extended bidding time when there were bids within 2 minutes of closing. The ones I played in from back when are not in existence anymore. One can imagine reasons for this.

regards

david

Hopsteiner
February 21st, 2014, 04:58 PM
I have used Auction Stealer for over 4 years with good results. I have never had any problems bidding on eBay in other countries. You have to realize you are bidding on the currency of the country where the auction is taking place. This is clearly stated when you type in your max bid. If it's Germany or France or one of the other European countries, it clearly comes up in Euros.

Jon Szanto
February 21st, 2014, 05:34 PM
I have used Auction Stealer for over 4 years with good results. I have never had any problems bidding on eBay in other countries. You have to realize you are bidding on the currency of the country where the auction is taking place. This is clearly stated when you type in your max bid. If it's Germany or France or one of the other European countries, it clearly comes up in Euros.
You may notice that this thread is about 8 months old.

ethernautrix
February 22nd, 2014, 03:14 AM
I have used Auction Stealer for over 4 years with good results. I have never had any problems bidding on eBay in other countries. You have to realize you are bidding on the currency of the country where the auction is taking place. This is clearly stated when you type in your max bid. If it's Germany or France or one of the other European countries, it clearly comes up in Euros.
You may notice that this thread is about 8 months old.

I missed this thread eight months ago, so I found it interesting and informative - particularly the warning to be alert to the auction's home country and currency. I might have noticed - or I might not have, but I certainly will pay closer attention now.

BTW, what's the difference between sniping and entering a max bid? Doesn't it come down to which number is higher?

Paul-H
February 22nd, 2014, 03:36 AM
One problem with snipping services that is not well publicised is that if you get a large number of snip bids hitting an auction at the same time it can clog the system up and not register some of the bids. I have lost quite a few auctions over the years because of this glitch with items ending at below my bid, so its not just buyers that can loose out but sellers as well, its ok if its only a few pence but what if my bid was £100 more.

Trouble is with so many people using sniping services, judging by the number of bids that hit the auctions I watch at 2 to 3 seconds before the auction ends you are in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.

pengeezer
February 22nd, 2014, 06:42 AM
I have used Auction Stealer for over 4 years with good results. I have never had any problems bidding on eBay in other countries. You have to realize you are bidding on the currency of the country where the auction is taking place. This is clearly stated when you type in your max bid. If it's Germany or France or one of the other European countries, it clearly comes up in Euros.
You may notice that this thread is about 8 months old.

I missed this thread eight months ago, so I found it interesting and informative - particularly the warning to be alert to the auction's home country and currency. I might have noticed - or I might not have, but I certainly will pay closer attention now.

BTW, what's the difference between sniping and entering a max bid? Doesn't it come down to which number is higher?

The way that Fleabay's system is set up--to encourage multiple bids I suppose--is that bidding is done
in increments to keep the bidding in some semblance of order. It only shows the next highest bid
according to its increment system,though the max amounts by various bidders/snipers is in its sys-
tem. One could snipe at the tail end with one max bid or could have a max bid already set up from
the beginning of the auction or somewhere in the middle. Sniping is coming in at or near the very
end of the auction and "stealing" the item away according to the time frame. A snipe could be just
one amount or have a max amount not yet reached in the waning seconds of the auction.BTW,I
never use a sniping system--I like the thrill of the chase and I usually know what my max will be.


Clear as mud? :)


John

pengeezer
February 22nd, 2014, 06:56 AM
One of the problems with an automated sniping system is that one could get lackadaisical and not
pay attention to changes in the system--hence they end up paying too much.


John

Laura N
February 22nd, 2014, 12:01 PM
I have used Auction Stealer for over 4 years with good results. I have never had any problems bidding on eBay in other countries. You have to realize you are bidding on the currency of the country where the auction is taking place. This is clearly stated when you type in your max bid. If it's Germany or France or one of the other European countries, it clearly comes up in Euros.
You may notice that this thread is about 8 months old.

I missed this thread eight months ago, so I found it interesting and informative - particularly the warning to be alert to the auction's home country and currency. I might have noticed - or I might not have, but I certainly will pay closer attention now.

BTW, what's the difference between sniping and entering a max bid? Doesn't it come down to which number is higher?

If you enter a max bid early in the auction, you are vulnerable to someone else making "probing" bids during the course of the auction, to smoke out your max bid, in which case your cards are exposed and you either lose or pay more than you might have. If you snipe that doesn't happen, because your bid is entered during the last seconds of the auction.

I have observed that when I enter a max bid early, I nearly always get outbid, and there's almost always someone else who seems to be "bidding" in increments just to expose my maximum. When I snipe I win much more often, so if it's something I want, I snipe.

I am not a big eBay person, though.

Jon Szanto
February 22nd, 2014, 12:10 PM
Laura answered Lisa's question well. Max bid can bite you at times.

My reason for using a sniping program, and I pretty much use them all the time, is multi-fold:


It's convenient, as I don't have to be there when the auction ends
I set it early so that I don't forget to "come back and bid on that thing"
It is the very best regulator of my resources



The last bit is my own 'speed governor' on my spending habits. When I see something for auction, I really do sit for a minute and try to think just how much I would pay for it, the most I would spend so that if it goes over, I won't feel badly. Once I do, I set the snipe and don't think about it. I rarely watch the auction, to keep "emotional bidding" out of the mix. Sniping has been a very helpful tool in assisting

BTW, my comments about the necroposting were not to imply that the topic wasn't still of interest, but that parties engaged in it back then might not necessarily be reading these days.

pengeezer
February 22nd, 2014, 02:53 PM
Another reason that I don't use a sniping system is because I might see something that I want,
and then decide the next day that I don't need that item that badly. At that point,if I've already
started a sniping setup,then I'm committed to that program and may end up winning and paying
for something that I found I could do without.

If I can't be patient enough to wait out an auction,then I've got no business there in the 1st place.


John

Jon Szanto
February 22nd, 2014, 03:10 PM
Another reason that I don't use a sniping system is because I might see something that I want,
and then decide the next day that I don't need that item that badly. At that point,if I've already
started a sniping setup,then I'm committed to that program and may end up winning and paying
for something that I found I could do without.

If I can't be patient enough to wait out an auction,then I've got no business there in the 1st place.

Yeah, but that doesn't wash at all. The sniping program I use is pretty much guaranteed to not send a bid if you cancel that snipe up to within 2 minutes of the end of auction. Unless you are systemically ambivalent about what you consider purchasing, a 2 minute window sure seems like enough time. I rarely have second thoughts, because I think about it pretty carefully to start with. I still see no downside whatsoever.

pengeezer
February 22nd, 2014, 03:20 PM
Another reason that I don't use a sniping system is because I might see something that I want,
and then decide the next day that I don't need that item that badly. At that point,if I've already
started a sniping setup,then I'm committed to that program and may end up winning and paying
for something that I found I could do without.

If I can't be patient enough to wait out an auction,then I've got no business there in the 1st place.

Yeah, but that doesn't wash at all. The sniping program I use is pretty much guaranteed to not send a bid if you cancel that snipe up to within 2 minutes of the end of auction. Unless you are systemically ambivalent about what you consider purchasing, a 2 minute window sure seems like enough time. I rarely have second thoughts, because I think about it pretty carefully to start with. I still see no downside whatsoever.

No ambivalence here. Not using a sniping system helps my patience,though I'm happy
to see that bids can be cancelled before the auction is over. If I miss out or the bidding
goes too high,I don't have to deal with cancelling anything.


John

Jon Szanto
February 22nd, 2014, 03:30 PM
Yeah, sorry, by "ambivalence" I was referring to a hesitance on whether to go through on a purchase. I guess that just isn't something I deal with. Not trying to make anyone use a system they would rather not, in the least. All I know is that since I have started automating my auction activity, my percentage of purchases actually coming through for me - winning - has gone up. I consider that a plus, with no real extra work on my part.

pengeezer
February 22nd, 2014, 03:57 PM
No problem. I find that no matter how ones does it,it comes down to how much one
is willing to spend on that item.


John

Jon Szanto
February 22nd, 2014, 04:37 PM
Indeed.

ethernautrix
February 22nd, 2014, 05:25 PM
Thanks for the explanations.

It's interesting that some opine that sniping programs are unfair. Seems to me, as John said, whoever is willing to pay the most for the pen is the one who will win it. If I determine my maximum, seems like it wouldn't make a difference to me whether I use a sniper program or simply enter my maximum bid. Even were I to lose in the last couple of seconds, I couldn't argue the outcome when the winner set a higher maximum.

velo
February 22nd, 2014, 07:45 PM
Hmmm but then why the need for the sniping program? Just enter your max bid and be done with it.

00Photo
February 22nd, 2014, 09:04 PM
Hmmm but then why the need for the sniping program? Just enter your max bid and be done with it.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Newb.

david i
February 22nd, 2014, 09:10 PM
Hmmm but then why the need for the sniping program? Just enter your max bid and be done with it.

Because, based on how ebay structures its bidding, doing so would be a simply awful strategy.

regards

david

mhosea
February 22nd, 2014, 10:35 PM
I am conflicted. My nature is to help people, but people reading this might be bidding on the same items I might bid on. I think that, under the circumstances, I will encourage them not to snipe. Don't snipe, folks. Waste of time. Bid early, but don't bid too high. Wouldn't want to overpay. ;)

tenney
February 22nd, 2014, 10:39 PM
Not about sniping, but... although most auctions are in the currency of the country of that ebay site, that's not always true. I've seen several pens by a person who says "don't pay right away, wait until I invoice you in Euros, NOT dollars". Of course, they use ebay's currency exchange rate which may be ok or not, but... you're bidding in dollars and then having to pay in Euros however the seller decides to convert it. I've also see, I think, ebay.com bids in GBP and Euros.

velo
February 23rd, 2014, 06:00 AM
Hmmm but then why the need for the sniping program? Just enter your max bid and be done with it.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Newb.

Not as many as some but over 200 transactions with some sales and purchases well over $1000 and a handful triple that amount.

Never once used a sniper and I believe I've had good value in purchases. Honestly if you use it and get done you take it on the chin just like you do when you lose a bid the noob way.

david i
February 23rd, 2014, 10:03 AM
Hmmm but then why the need for the sniping program? Just enter your max bid and be done with it.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Newb.

Not as many as some but over 200 transactions with some sales and purchases well over $1000 and a handful triple that amount.

Never once used a sniper and I believe I've had good value in purchases. Honestly if you use it and get done you take it on the chin just like you do when you lose a bid the noob way.

This of course is not relevant to your original question, which was...


Quote Originally Posted by velo View Post
Hmmm but then why the need for the sniping program? Just enter your max bid and be done with it.

Ebay game theory. Fun stuff indeed.

regards,

David

mhosea
February 23rd, 2014, 10:23 AM
Not as many as some but over 200 transactions with some sales and purchases well over $1000 and a handful triple that amount.

Never once used a sniper and I believe I've had good value in purchases. Honestly if you use it and get done you take it on the chin just like you do when you lose a bid the noob way.

Perhaps it merits noting that the benefit of sniping is not just about winning. It is also about winning at a lower price. There are at least three serious ways of bidding: 1. Bid max early, 2. snipe, and 3. bid hopefully early and be ready to defend your item. What strategy #1 does to #3 folks is give them time to probe and subsequently to think about whether they are willing to go higher and higher. Sniping does nothing to strategy #1 folks, obviously, but it takes strategy #3 folks out of the game, and they are the ones who are most likely to over-bid emotionally, especially when they have held the lead for awhile and started to feel like the item is already theirs. These are the folks who tend to complain about sniping and consider it somehow "unethical", apparently an emotive response based on the sense of pseudo ownership that can develop from having a leading bid for any length of time.

Occasionally you can also get a good deal as buyer on an item that nobody has bid on because domain-newbies (people who don't know that much about what they are bidding on,as opposed to Ebay-newbies, who don't know how to use the system to their best advantage) may infer lack of desirability from lack of bid activity. This is often true when a pen looks like crap only because of dried ink everywhere, tarnish, and misaligned feed.

The negative effect of low bid activity is why I generally start my (very few) items for sale off at $0.99 and without a reserve, because the bidding activity makes the item look more attractive to people who have less idea how attractive it really is. Having said that, I understand why people use reserves for items appealing only to a small market, since there is a high risk that there won't be at least two people who really want the item, know what it is worth, and notice that it is for sale, all three.

david i
February 23rd, 2014, 10:52 AM
Hi Mike,

Your 3rd way is what some of us refer to as nibbling. Nibbling vs Sniping, to give cute names to common tactics. One indeed has greater benefits than the other :wink:

regards

david

joiedwards
February 23rd, 2014, 12:15 PM
I don't have a problem with sniping. I don't do it. When I used auction sites in the past i learned to bid what I thought the item was worth to me and then forgot about it. If I won, good. I did not win alot and eventually went away from auctions as a way of acquiring things.

I think sniping frustrates people who can't sit by their computer waiting for the auction to end. If you enter your max bid at the beginning and lose by one dollar or fifty, it will not matter.

david i
February 23rd, 2014, 12:47 PM
I don't have a problem with sniping. I don't do it. When I used auction sites in the past i learned to bid what I thought the item was worth to me and then forgot about it. If I won, good. I did not win alot and eventually went away from auctions as a way of acquiring things.

I think sniping frustrates people who can't sit by their computer waiting for the auction to end. If you enter your max bid at the beginning and lose by one dollar or fifty, it will not matter.

It matters though, if you are more likely to lose the auction by entering your max bid at the beginning, rather than at the end. Unless, of course, winning the item for your max bid, vs losing it, doesn't matter.

regards

david

pengeezer
February 23rd, 2014, 01:17 PM
I don't have a problem with sniping. I don't do it. When I used auction sites in the past i learned to bid what I thought the item was worth to me and then forgot about it. If I won, good. I did not win alot and eventually went away from auctions as a way of acquiring things.

I think sniping frustrates people who can't sit by their computer waiting for the auction to end. If you enter your max bid at the beginning and lose by one dollar or fifty, it will not matter.

It matters though, if you are more likely to lose the auction by entering your max bid at the beginning, rather than at the end. Unless, of course, winning the item for your max bid, vs losing it, doesn't matter.

regards

david

That's why there are those of us that wouldn't put in a max bid at the beginning of an
auction on a popular pen(for instance). The percentage that we will be outbid because of
the popularity of a brand's model will be higher because of the newbies and the pros bid-
ing on it. The only option for those wanting to win the auction will be to overpay.


John

david i
February 23rd, 2014, 01:46 PM
I don't have a problem with sniping. I don't do it. When I used auction sites in the past i learned to bid what I thought the item was worth to me and then forgot about it. If I won, good. I did not win alot and eventually went away from auctions as a way of acquiring things.

I think sniping frustrates people who can't sit by their computer waiting for the auction to end. If you enter your max bid at the beginning and lose by one dollar or fifty, it will not matter.

It matters though, if you are more likely to lose the auction by entering your max bid at the beginning, rather than at the end. Unless, of course, winning the item for your max bid, vs losing it, doesn't matter.

regards

david

That's why there are those of us that wouldn't put in a max bid at the beginning of an
auction on a popular pen(for instance). The percentage that we will be outbid because of
the popularity of a brand's model will be higher because of the newbies and the pros bid-
ing on it. The only option for those wanting to win the auction will be to overpay.


John

Bidding early in an auction has little (though some) benefit. Bidding at the end of auction, particularly regarding a maximum bid, has huge benefit and little risk.

However, having bought perhaps 3000-4000 pens on ebay, and having outbid others to get those pens in all cases save the minority "Buy It Now" sales, I very rarely (Perhaps 1% of cases) overpay. Since "overpay" is a somewhat subjective term, perhaps it should be better defined for this discussion, if it is to be asserted that the only option for those wanting to win the auction is to overpay.

regards

david

tenney
February 26th, 2014, 01:03 AM
Although it does happen sometimes that I'll win an item bidding an hour or more before the end of the auction, it is much more common for me to win when I bid right near the end.

As for automated sniping sites... I just never understood why folks feel comfortable giving their ebay userid and password to some arbitrary / random person out on the net. It just seems like you're opening yourself up for problems.

Jon Szanto
February 26th, 2014, 01:16 AM
I just never understood why folks feel comfortable giving their ebay userid and password to some arbitrary / random person out on the net. It just seems like you're opening yourself up for problems.

In the 4-5 years I've used my particular one, I've never had an issue. I'd know it the first time an unauthorized purchase came up, and I'd raise the issue with eBay and change my account. They don't have any link to payment information, so even if an unauthorized bid was submitted, I would simply show documentation that I did not initiate it, cancel all use of the site, and do something different. I never give the sniper authorization or information for payment, just submitting a bid. I see no issue.

KrazyIvan
February 26th, 2014, 08:55 AM
I snipe. I do not use a service. As already mentioned, it has more to do with paranoia related to handing out my credentials to an unknown entity and trusting them to keep them safe more than any possible ethics or ego boosting arguments. I also snipe because I do not like to put my max bid out there early so others can inch up my bid. I watch an item, if it goes past what I am willing to pay, I remove it from my watch list and start looking again. I have lost potential auctions just because I did not have time to bid on it at the last second but that is a risk I am willing to take. I have also won some auctions for really good prices so in the end, it all evens out. The person willing to pay the most is going to win if I snipe or proxy bid, so it is all good.

pengeezer
February 26th, 2014, 02:27 PM
I snipe. I do not use a service. As already mentioned, it has more to do with paranoia related to handing out my credentials to an unknown entity and trusting them to keep them safe more than any possible ethics or ego boosting arguments. I also snipe because I do not like to put my max bid out there early so others can inch up my bid. I watch an item, if it goes past what I am willing to pay, I remove it from my watch list and start looking again. I have lost potential auctions just because I did not have time to bid on it at the last second but that is a risk I am willing to take. I have also won some auctions for really good prices so in the end, it all evens out. The person willing to pay the most is going to win if I snipe or proxy bid, so it is all good.


+1 on that one.I like to watch the auction just to see how much one is
willing to overpay.


John

david i
February 26th, 2014, 03:34 PM
I snipe. I do not use a service. As already mentioned, it has more to do with paranoia related to handing out my credentials to an unknown entity and trusting them to keep them safe more than any possible ethics or ego boosting arguments. I also snipe because I do not like to put my max bid out there early so others can inch up my bid. I watch an item, if it goes past what I am willing to pay, I remove it from my watch list and start looking again. I have lost potential auctions just because I did not have time to bid on it at the last second but that is a risk I am willing to take. I have also won some auctions for really good prices so in the end, it all evens out. The person willing to pay the most is going to win if I snipe or proxy bid, so it is all good.


+1 on that one.I like to watch the auction just to see how much one is
willing to overpay.


John

What if one underpays?

regards

d

pengeezer
February 26th, 2014, 04:00 PM
I snipe. I do not use a service. As already mentioned, it has more to do with paranoia related to handing out my credentials to an unknown entity and trusting them to keep them safe more than any possible ethics or ego boosting arguments. I also snipe because I do not like to put my max bid out there early so others can inch up my bid. I watch an item, if it goes past what I am willing to pay, I remove it from my watch list and start looking again. I have lost potential auctions just because I did not have time to bid on it at the last second but that is a risk I am willing to take. I have also won some auctions for really good prices so in the end, it all evens out. The person willing to pay the most is going to win if I snipe or proxy bid, so it is all good.


+1 on that one.I like to watch the auction just to see how much one is
willing to overpay.


John

What if one underpays?

regards

d

Then I silently congratulate them on a sumgai buy. Already have seen several this month.


John

mhosea
February 26th, 2014, 05:05 PM
I have lost potential auctions just because I did not have time to bid on it at the last second but that is a risk I am willing to take. I have also won some auctions for really good prices so in the end, it all evens out. The person willing to pay the most is going to win if I snipe or proxy bid, so it is all good.

I've manually sniped and used JBidwatcher, which isn't an on-line service. My connections are quite good, and it has worked well for me in the past, though lately it has problems fetching my watch list, so I've had to add auctions to it manually. I do like manual sniping for the fun of it, though. For me this is all entertainment, anyway. Sometimes I will admit to tossing in early and mid-auction bids on various items that I have no intention of making a serious snipe for. This is for fun and just on the off chance that a "miracle" will occur. Sadly, there have been no miracles yet on Montblanc 149s, although I was the non-sniped high bid on one recently that didn't make its reserve price. I would guess that at $175 less than the BIN price, my high bid was probably a good $75 below the reserve price. I sort of won it. ;)