Another religious abuse scandal

[TSherbs]

This time the Southern Baptists:

NBC News: Report: Top Southern Baptists stonewalled clergy sex abuse victims.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/report-top-southern-baptists-stonewalled-clergy-sex-abuse-victims-rcna30029

More abuse of the vulnerable, more abuse of religious power, more secrecy, denial, and passing of the buck.

Sue, sue, sue. Make them pay.

[Lloyd]

Financial retribution for sex abuse, at any level, is insufficient retribution.

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[Chuck Naill]

Like I have been saying, lots of Christians but few disciples of Jesus.

The early church had a plurality of leaders including females and males.

When I was a young man working, a supervisor told me not to “dip my pen in company ink”. Maybe that should be in seminary.

[TSherbs]

Here's another review of the report. It is searing in scope. 703 known abusers, many serial predators. I have had evangelical acquaintances say that the Catholic clergy abuse scandals don't surprise them because they consider the RCC to be rotten. Well, looks like the protestant evangelical institutionality and hierarchy (uncentralized as it is) has the same abhorrent, criminal, immoral rot in it. Not a wit of difference. The same presumptuous male privilege and misplaced righteousness mixed with sexual perversion in false disguise.

The Southern Baptist Convention should be sued into bankruptcy, and they should be outlawed from practice for 50 years.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/southern-baptist-evangelical-allegations-cover-up/629954/

[Chuck Naill]

Here's another review of the report. It is searing in scope. 703 known abusers, many serial predators. I have had evangelical acquaintances say that the Catholic clergy abuse scandals don't surprise them because they consider the RCC to be rotten. Well, looks like the protestant evangelical institutionality and hierarchy (uncentralized as it is) has the same abhorrent, criminal, immoral rot in it. Not a wit of difference. The same presumptuous male privilege and misplaced righteousness mixed with sexual perversion in false disguise.

The Southern Baptist Convention should be sued into bankruptcy, and they should be outlawed from practice for 50 years.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/southern-baptist-evangelical-allegations-cover-up/629954/

MLK had his issues.

[Lloyd]

Here's another review of the report. It is searing in scope. 703 known abusers, many serial predators. I have had evangelical acquaintances say that the Catholic clergy abuse scandals don't surprise them because they consider the RCC to be rotten. Well, looks like the protestant evangelical institutionality and hierarchy (uncentralized as it is) has the same abhorrent, criminal, immoral rot in it. Not a wit of difference. The same presumptuous male privilege and misplaced righteousness mixed with sexual perversion in false disguise.

The Southern Baptist Convention should be sued into bankruptcy, and they should be outlawed from practice for 50 years.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/southern-baptist-evangelical-allegations-cover-up/629954/
Hopefully, people will realize the real intent of those at the top of these organizations in 50 years.

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[Chuck Naill]

More on the Baptist Church.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/may-23-2022?r=87nb3&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

[Chip]

Reminds me of an old saying: Nobody screws like a good Christian at a revival.

The spirit seems to move from the waist on down.

[Pendragon]

Sue, sue, sue. Make them pay.
Sue, sue, sue does not make the leadership pay. It is not their money. Sending them to prison for 40 years or so will make them pay.


The Southern Baptist Convention should be sued into bankruptcy, and they should be outlawed from practice for 50 years.
So punish the innocent along with the guilty?

[Chuck Naill]

What the "leadership" probably will not do is change the system of a one man rule and denomination affiliations that force obedience.

My experience only, but most of the pastors I have worked with have little or no relationships with other men except their pastor friends. A comical thing occurred once where the pastor called the men together for a work day and didn't participate himself. This is not uncommon. When I was a deacon members would complain they didn't feel close to the pastor. Not sure how this occurs.

Again, my experience, pastors get into trouble counseling or with the female staff.

[Chuck Naill]

From the David Brooks OP-ED today.
"And yet when allegations of sexual abuse came, the leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention betrayed it all. Those men — and they seem to have all been men — must have listened to hundreds of hours of pious sermons, read hundreds of high-minded theological books, recited thousands of hours of prayer, and yet all those true teachings and good beliefs had no effect on their actual behavior."

"The fact is, moral behavior doesn’t start with having the right beliefs. Moral behavior starts with an act — the act of seeing the full humanity of other people. Moral behavior is not about having the right intellectual concepts in your head. It’s about seeing other people with the eyes of the heart, seeing them in their full experience, suffering with their full suffering, walking with them on their path. Morality starts with the quality of attention we cast upon another."
This is why supporting a man like Donald Trump is impossible for a disciple of Jesus. Yes, others are just a bad, but with him there is no doubt.

[Chip]

One reason that potential rapists and abusers are drawn to authoritarian, patriarchal religion is that it offers them not only power to follow their urges, but institutional cover for doing so.

That the Catholic and Southern Baptist churches are safe havens for abusers is hardly a coincidence.

Gimme that old-time religion,
stay right there, on your knees. . .

[Chuck Naill]

One reason that potential rapists and abusers are drawn to authoritarian, patriarchal religion is that it offers them not only power to follow their urges, but institutional cover for doing so.

That the Catholic and Southern Baptist churches are safe havens for abusers is hardly a coincidence.

Gimme that old-time religion,
stay right there, on your knees. . .

Single moms want their children, especially sons to have a male role model. It was a responsibility I took seriously as a coach and teacher.

I saw young men want to go into the “ministry”. Most were a lost ball in tall weeds needing to be nurtured themselves, but they are free labor at camps and groups at churches.

[TSherbs]

And here comes more, from the RCC in Mississippi:

https://apnews.com/article/new-orleans-clergy-sex-abuse-fbi-investigation-0d0ee865d27508b7848909d8e82e87fb

Keep going after this criminal institutional rot. I hope they put people in prison and that the RCC of America is sued into non-existence.

[Chip]

If they lose cases, they can just appeal to the Holy Apostolic (excuse me, Supreme) Court of the United States.

[TSherbs]

No longer surprised by evidence of more massive Catholic abuse and cover-up: this time Illinois:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65652001

[Chip]

Time after time, it's traditional male authority figures who sexually molest and abuse children.

[Chuck Naill]

Will we see this abuse in trans males as well?

[TSherbs]

Will we see this abuse in trans males as well?

Do you mean, have males been abused who later become trans as a result?

Or do you mean "trans males" as abusers?

[Chuck Naill]

If a female becomes a male, does this sort of abuse follow?

[TSherbs]

If a female becomes a male, does this sort of abuse follow?

ok

So, in response to a post (on a religious abuse thread) noting another State Attorney General report on the abuse by hundreds of priests upon a thousand children, this is your post? To pull a what-about pivot to a smear question about trans men?

You're a piece of work, my "christian" human brother.

[Chuck Naill]

It would take months to go back and provide documentation for where you and Chip haven’t addressed the thread’s topic. Just the Christian Definition thread alone would show how hypocritical you can be.

Now you are calling me names.

The question is legitimate. If a female becomes and man, it would be expected that they exhibit male actions.

[TSherbs]

...If a female becomes and man, it would be expected that they exhibit male actions.

yeah, sure

that's exactly right

[Chuck Naill]

I have to engage with you as you present yourself to be. You recoil if either too opinionated or start name calling when things don’t go your way. You’re angry, Ted. What’s the best way to respond to anger? I could stop responding or engage. You decide. Or you can do what you’ve done with others and chose to ignore me.

However, since you don’t own the forum, you really should stop the complaining.

[TSherbs]

I could stop responding or engage. You decide.

I don't care whether you post or not. I am done trying with you. If you are sincerely giving me the power to "decide," then please don't respond to me either. Thank you (I now have you on ignore and will only intermitently see what you write anyway).

I will return to the topic now.

[dneal]

I could stop responding or engage. You decide.

I don't care whether you post or not. I am done trying with you. If you are sincerely giving me the power to "decide," then please don't respond to me either. Thank you (I now have you on ignore and will only intermitently see what you write anyway).

I will return to the topic now.

Strange that you're eventually done with anyone who responds to your posts.

Do you think you can spot the correlation or commonality?

Do you think it might relate to your question about what's wrong with this section?

[Chuck Naill]

Brooks writes often about “coastal elites” and how it has caused the emergence of the far right movements.

Unfortunately, when you think your way is the only way, and that everyone who disagrees is uneducated, the result is predictable.

If men are involved in sexual abuse, trans men would, by nature, also be involved, at some percentage.

[Chip]

If men are involved in sexual abuse, trans men would, by nature, also be involved, at some percentage.

To a greater degree than Catholic priests, protestant ministers, coaches, or scout leaders?

I doubt they'd take the risk, given that they are already targets. While male authority figures are protected by their organizations.

[Chuck Naill]

Who can say, but it’s plausible.

[TSherbs]

Now the San Francisco diocese is claiming bankruptcy as a result of the 500+ lawsuits they are facing for abuse.

Good.

Keep suing them! I hope that the American RCC is sued into non-existence.

[724Seney]

Now the San Francisco diocese is claiming bankruptcy as a result of the 500+ lawsuits they are facing for abuse.

Good.

Keep suing them! I hope that the American RCC is sued into non-existence.

Yet another example of your selfish, self-centered approach to life.

There are a lot of Catholics who abhor what has occurred as much and probably even more than you.
But, their faith is important to them and anything resulting in the dissolution of the American RCC would more than crush them

Second, there is AND YOU HAVE SEEN BUT CHOSEN TO IGNORE, irrefutable data which demonstrates the there are far more TEACHERS who abuse young children that there are clergy.
By your logic, if the RCC is sued into non-existence, so should the Teachers Union and every other organized group which supports teachers.

How's that sound Pinhead??

[Chuck Naill]

STEPHEN CLIFFGARD LEE: Prosecutors say Stephen Cliffgard Lee, a pastor, worked with others to try to pressure Georgia election worker Ruby Freeman and her daughter after Trump and his allies falsely accused them of pulling fraudulent ballots from a suitcase during the vote count. Lee allegedly knocked on Freeman’s door, frightening her and causing her to call 911 three times, prosecutors said in a court filing last year.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/19-people-charged-georgia-indictment-connected-trump-election-102274367

Maybe others are not aware of what occurred with the election worker, but it basically ruined her life. That a pastor would participate in such actions is atrocious.

[TSherbs]

On the moral collapse (and crimes) at Liberty University:

The Worst Scandal in American Higher Education Isn’t in the Ivy League

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/22/opinion/liberty-university-scandal-education.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4kw.yrhr.6X rrBb0NCJ2d&smid=nytcore-android-share

[dneal]

Still primarily educators.

Maybe you’re looking at the wrong variable.

80819

[Pendragon]

Still primarily educators.

Maybe you’re looking at the wrong variable.
That is because the teacher's union protects public school employees.