Applicable quote for this subforum?

[Lloyd]

I saw the following quote and, while it's applicable to most people in society most of the time, thought it fit this subforum especially well.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.

John Kenneth Galbraith

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

“Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people we personally dislike.”

― Oscar Wilde, An Ideal Husband

[Bold2013]

"I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong"

Russell Lynes

[Bold2013]

“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”

[Chip]

I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone.

—Oscar Wilde

[Chip]

Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live. It is asking other people to live as one wishes to live.

—Oscar Wilde

[dneal]

I ran across this one the other day. ;)


Y'all have lost your goddamned minds....

[Lloyd]

I ran across this one the other day. ;)


Y'all have lost your goddamned minds....
I'd like to see a person with multiple personality disorder say that to himself while looking in the mirror in a comedy movie.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

I think most people know the right thing to do , and most do. The problem is some know the right thing to do, and for one reason or another, choose something wrong. It may be pride, petty arrogance, or affiliations, but seldom stupidity.

[Chip]

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.

—Oscar Wilde

[TSherbs]

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.

—Oscar Wilde

That's a great quote!

[Lloyd]

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.

—Oscar Wilde

That's a great quote!
Ditto!😉

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

Wilde was a master of the epigram.

[724Seney]

"If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport."

-Unknown

[Chip]

They do fly: Business Class.

[Chip]

Perhaps, after all, America never has been discovered. I myself would say that it had merely been detected.

—Oscar Wilde

[dneal]

When you can't debate ideas, debate personalities.

[Chip]

Some of us lose either way.

—Oscar Wilde

[ethernautrix]

One of my favorite reminders:

70595


The Internet says Ajahn Chah said it.

[ethernautrix]

I ran across this one the other day. ;)


Y'all have lost your goddamned minds....
I'd like to see a person with multiple personality disorder say that to himself while looking in the mirror in a comedy movie.

Actually picturing that made me laugh.

Seems that when people are too close to the argument, responding quickly, it's hard to see where they're going off the rails. Checking in once every coupla, few weeks... just wow. And imagine how this dynamic is repeated countlessly everywhere, every moment... it's a wonder we have a civilization at all (she said hyperbolically, to make a point).

[TSherbs]

We are all mutts.

[Chip]

Some tails are better than others.

https://i.imgur.com/7qOO7EN.jpg

[Chuck Naill]

I think we do a good job. If you’re only here every two weeks, that your choice, but your opinion doesn’t carry much weight.

[Lloyd]

I think we do a good job. If you’re only here every two weeks, that your choice, but your opinion doesn’t carry much weight.
A good job of doing what?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

Discussing and vocalizing our opinions.

[dneal]

Vocalizing? No doubt.

Discussing? No so much anymore.

[Chuck Naill]

Can’t blame me. I try!!

[Chuck Naill]

For example,
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. “

Then you wanted to interpret as everyone who wants a gun, regardless, is enabled by the constitution as a right.

[Chip]

"But I don't want to go among mad people,' said Alice.

'Oh, you can't help that,' said the cat. 'We're all mad here.'

—Lewis Carroll

[ethernautrix]

"But I don't want to go among mad people,' said Alice.

'Oh, you can't help that,' said the cat. 'We're all mad here.'

—Lewis Carroll


That nails it. Especially with the double meaning of "mad."

[ethernautrix]

Jim Norton said this recently:

"It's not about what we're arguing about. We love to argue and we love to be right. It's not about the issue. The issue is the excuse to attack each other, and we're always going to love attacking each other, and so no matter what the issues are, we are still the same. We can blame Trump, we can blame Biden, it doesn't matter; we're the same."

[Chuck Naill]

There are topics for which to be correct is essential. And, it’s worth a strong effort and a suitable amount of rigor to be properly informed and communicate accordingly.

What is ironic is someone who decides to show up only to complain regarding others engaged in important considerations. Now that it a waste of time.

While we may never sway, arguing is a way to make for certain we personally are thinking well.

[dneal]

Many mistake their truth for the truth.

The truth may never be discerned, but more assuredly when one is unable to question their truth.

[Bold2013]

Many mistake their truth for the truth.

The truth may never be discerned, but more assuredly when one is unable to question their truth.

Agreed. Who is this quote from?

[dneal]

Many mistake their truth for the truth.

The truth may never be discerned, but more assuredly when one is unable to question their truth.

Agreed. Who is this quote from?

Me, but I’m sure there’s some variation from somebody else (or several somebodies) over the ages that I’m not aware of. The “there are no original thoughts” theory…

[Chuck Naill]

The truth is the truth and not what @dneal prefer , not me.

[Lloyd]

The truth is the truth and not what @dneal prefer , not me.
Please, tell me a truth. Aside from in pure mathematics or logical verities, I don't consider many statements 100% true.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Bold2013]

The truth is the truth and not what @dneal prefer , not me.
Please, tell me a truth. Aside from in pure mathematics or logical verities, I don't consider many statements 100% true.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

My best attempt would be objective truth exists.

[Lloyd]

The truth is the truth and not what @dneal prefer , not me.
Please, tell me a truth. Aside from in pure mathematics or logical verities, I don't consider many statements 100% true.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

My best attempt would be objective truth exists.
Is that statement true? If so, can you give an example (not circular logic back to itself nor pure mathematics/logic)?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

Not a quote but perhaps applicable.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220618/77c2fecce27e0679944bc4a80ee56a56.jpg

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[ethernautrix]

https://youtu.be/otCpCn0l4Wo

[dneal]

@Lloyd - Our Present Dark Age (https://steve-patterson.com/our-present-dark-age-part-1/)

[Lloyd]

@Lloyd - Our Present Dark Age (https://steve-patterson.com/our-present-dark-age-part-1/)

Huh? What's this pile of text? At least in the math one, he goes on forever criticizing the multitude of infinities (countable versus uncountable, etc.). What's he yapping about?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

@Lloyd - Our Present Dark Age (https://steve-patterson.com/our-present-dark-age-part-1/)

Huh? What's this pile of text? At least in the math one, he goes on forever criticizing the multitude of infinities (countable versus uncountable, etc.). What's he yapping about?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

He’s yapping about epistemology. Based on your political cartoon a few posts back, I thought you might find a deeper dive into the theme of interest. Some people don’t like that end of the pool.

[Lloyd]

@Lloyd - Our Present Dark Age (https://steve-patterson.com/our-present-dark-age-part-1/)

Huh? What's this pile of text? At least in the math one, he goes on forever criticizing the multitude of infinities (countable versus uncountable, etc.). What's he yapping about?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

He’s yapping about epistemology. Based on your political cartoon a few posts back, I thought you might find a deeper dive into the theme of interest. Some people don’t like that end of the pool.
I don't dive into pools that lack water

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

@Lloyd - Our Present Dark Age (https://steve-patterson.com/our-present-dark-age-part-1/)

Huh? What's this pile of text? At least in the math one, he goes on forever criticizing the multitude of infinities (countable versus uncountable, etc.). What's he yapping about?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

He’s yapping about epistemology. Based on your political cartoon a few posts back, I thought you might find a deeper dive into the theme of interest. Some people don’t like that end of the pool.
I don't dive into pools that lack water

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

😂😂😂

[dneal]

@Lloyd - Our Present Dark Age (https://steve-patterson.com/our-present-dark-age-part-1/)

Huh? What's this pile of text? At least in the math one, he goes on forever criticizing the multitude of infinities (countable versus uncountable, etc.). What's he yapping about?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

He’s yapping about epistemology. Based on your political cartoon a few posts back, I thought you might find a deeper dive into the theme of interest. Some people don’t like that end of the pool.
I don't dive into pools that lack water

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

I see the snark is back. That's unfortunate.

[TSherbs]

I see the snark is back. That's unfortunate.

It's one of your favorite tools, mirror man

[Chuck Naill]

Wasn’t it him to tried to chastise another by saying when he didn’t have anything more to say, he’d resort to name calling or was it personal attacks? The irony is palpable.

[Lloyd]

@Lloyd - Our Present Dark Age (https://steve-patterson.com/our-present-dark-age-part-1/)

Huh? What's this pile of text? At least in the math one, he goes on forever criticizing the multitude of infinities (countable versus uncountable, etc.). What's he yapping about?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

He’s yapping about epistemology. Based on your political cartoon a few posts back, I thought you might find a deeper dive into the theme of interest. Some people don’t like that end of the pool.
I don't dive into pools that lack water

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

I see the snark is back. That's unfortunate.
That wasn't being snarky. It seems that man is trying to knock things that he doesn't understand, or that he understands but he wants to knock for illogical reasons. I read a lengthy part of his incorrect assessments on math and that was more than enough for me. He writes well, though.... just either devoid of understanding or intentionally trying to mis-spin ideas.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

It is a far, far better thing to have a firm anchor in nonsense than to put out on the troubled seas of thought.

—John Kenneth Galbraith

[dneal]

That wasn't being snarky. It seems that man is trying to knock things that he doesn't understand, or that he understands but he wants to knock for illogical reasons. I read a lengthy part of his incorrect assessments on math and that was more than enough for me. He writes well, though.... just either devoid of understanding or intentionally trying to mis-spin ideas.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

It's just an essay of his observations and thoughts. Something he's working on.

He's talking about specializations vs generalizations, and that somewhere along the line we've become so specific and detail oriented that we've* lost the ability to see the bigger picture and how each part fits (or if it even does).

Each discipline sequesters itself in its own community and becomes isolated, or insulated from other competing or complimentary disciplines.

History, Anthropology and Archeology are all related in that they study previous iterations of humanity. He's questioning (maybe asserting) that they are stove-piped and ignorant of each other's work. Style guides among disciplines is perhaps an example of how parochial they've become.

Psychology is perhaps another example (although in one discipline), with different "theories of mind" and competing philosophical camps. Freudian psychoanalysts, behavioralists, etc... although that's rectifying itself to some extent.

It resonated with me as I thought of the stove-piped bureaucracies within the DOD (and then seeing how bad the federal bureaucracy is, being exposed to those outside the DOD). It's how PM Abrams manages to build a new version of the M1 tank only to realize it exceeds the load capacity of existing bridging equipment it needs to cross tank ditches and rivers. They never thought to consult with PEO Combat Support.

Among his reasons are competition for funding - another parallel I'm familiar with.

But his piece in conjunction with your cartoon got me to thinking about the role of the 4th estate. It seems they've abandoned the duty of putting the complexity of the world together for the average person to understand or integrate. Instead, we see various types of parochialism (political and ideological) as they compete for resources (advertising dollars). We knew that the National Enquirer was trash about aliens stealing babies. We knew that People was superficial tabloid gossip about celebrities, and we knew that Walter Cronkite would make sense of the world for us. That paradigm is gone, for many of the reasons he lays out.

Perhaps we are in a form of dark age, each human left to scurry around an overwhelming amount of sources of information in an attempt to make sense of it all - with the majority simply picking a "church" and being spoon-fed truths we find the most palatable.

It's all just food for thought. Something to discuss. None of us has all the answers, and certainly not some guy with a blog on the interwebz.


*society, humans interacting on a global scale, etc... for those that take issue with "we"

[dneal]

It is a far, far better thing to have a firm anchor in nonsense than to put out on the troubled seas of thought.

—John Kenneth Galbraith

"Better" is subjective, and I couldn't disagree more. The troubled seas of thought took us to the moon instead of being anchored in nonsense and worshipping it.

--edit--

On second thought, that quote is applicable to this subforum and some do seem to espouse it.

[Lloyd]

I disagree about the stovepipe in regards to math. Math creates fictional worlds, imbues them with a very few initial unbreakable rules, and then the mathematician sees what other laws must follow. Other fields (statistics, finance, physics, chemistry, CS, etc.) use these math worlds to describe/predict their "real" world. Mathematicians cross fields frequently to see how their work might be applicable to others.
In every specialist's work, there is a unique language that is needed to expedite and simplify. Big breakthroughs happen when two seemingly unrelated specialized fields find an unexpected equivalence.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

That author seems to be complaining that the world is far more complicated than we used to think and that we are making strides to understand a bit more.


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

I disagree about the stovepipe in regards to math. Math creates fictional worlds, imbues them with a very few initial unbreakable rules, and then the mathematician sees what other laws must follow. Other fields (statistics, finance, physics, chemistry, CS, etc.) use these math worlds to describe/predict their "real" world. Mathematicians cross fields frequently to see how their work might be applicable to others.
In every specialist's work, there is a unique language that is needed to expedite and simplify. Big breakthroughs happen when two seemingly unrelated specialized fields find an unexpected equivalence.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Fair points. It seems he was referencing the extreme theoretical reaches of math - essentially philosophy at that point with "what is real" (metaphysics) and "what can we know" (epistemology).

He also missed in his complimenting of engineers that they rely primarily on math.

I agree his examples in some cases were weak. Take this paragraph:


The medical establishment has greatly underestimated the complexity of biological systems, and due to this oversimplification, they yank levers that end up causing more harm than good. The same is true for the economists and politicians who believe they can centrally plan economies. They greatly underestimate the complexity of economic systems and end up causing more harm than good. That’s the standard pattern across all disciplines.

The first sentence is pretty ludicrous. One could argue that treatment tends to depend on discipline (the "if you have a hammer everything looks like a nail" metaphor). i.e.: If you have a sore shoulder, physical therapists tend toward physical therapy, GP's tend toward steroid shots, and Surgeons tend toward surgery. But that's being generous to what he wrote. His argument seems more accurate with regard to economists though. They agree on very little, and are parochial in schools of thought. I noticed Chip's article in the inflation thread asserted that the banks jacking up interest rates hastens inflation. Our Federal Reserve asserts raising interest rates slows inflation.

At some point though, all that is quibbling over what he said and not necessarily what he meant. The latter needs a bit of leeway on the particulars and consideration to the larger point.

Problems aside, I thought it was a pretty good piece for a young guy who thinks he's got it all figured out.

[Lloyd]

Fair points. It seems he was referencing the extreme theoretical reaches of math - essentially philosophy at that point with "what is real" (metaphysics) and "what can we know" (epistemology).

He also missed in his complimenting of engineers that they rely primarily on math.

I agree his examples in some cases were weak. Take this paragraph:


The medical establishment has greatly underestimated the complexity of biological systems, and due to this oversimplification, they yank levers that end up causing more harm than good. The same is true for the economists and politicians who believe they can centrally plan economies. They greatly underestimate the complexity of economic systems and end up causing more harm than good. That’s the standard pattern across all disciplines.

The first sentence is pretty ludicrous. One could argue that treatment tends to depend on discipline (the "if you have a hammer everything looks like a nail" metaphor). i.e.: If you have a sore shoulder, physical therapists tend toward physical therapy, GP's tend toward steroid shots, and Surgeons tend toward surgery. But that's being generous to what he wrote. His argument seems more accurate with regard to economists though. They agree on very little, and are parochial in schools of thought. I noticed Chip's article in the inflation thread asserted that the banks jacking up interest rates hastens inflation. Our Federal Reserve asserts raising interest rates slows inflation.

At some point though, all that is quibbling over what he said and not necessarily what he meant. The latter needs a bit of leeway on the particulars and consideration to the larger point.

Problems aside, I thought it was a pretty good piece for a young guy who thinks he's got it all figured out.
I think he should keep his thoughts to himself and his inner circle. This (and similarly will written but highly erroneous) online text is the fertilizer which feeds conspiracies. Also, I find it a waste of time to evaluate this.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

Also, I find it a waste of time to evaluate this.

Fair enough, but don't get upset if I offer the same level of candor in the future.

My thoughts on the article from the pediatrician that you shared (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/37395-The-Boy-Crisis?p=368436&viewfull=1#post368436), for example, were that it was atrocious and didn't even address the thesis in the title - much less support it. It was simply a disjointed word-salad of platitudes in paragraphs.

I assumed you found it of some value, and perhaps empathized with the caring intent in the paragraphs - which is why gave it the benefit of the doubt and didn't comment on it. Simple common courtesy.

p.s.: For the monkeys that will jump on the common courtesy comment - nothing hypocritical about it. I treat individuals, individually.

[Lloyd]

Also, I find it a waste of time to evaluate this.

Fair enough, but don't get upset if I offer the same level of candor in the future.

My thoughts on the article from the pediatrician that you shared (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/37395-The-Boy-Crisis?p=368436&viewfull=1#post368436), for example, were that it was atrocious and didn't even address the thesis in the title - much less support it. It was simply a disjointed word-salad of platitudes in paragraphs.

I assumed you found it of some value, and perhaps empathized with the caring intent in the paragraphs - which is why gave it the benefit of the doubt and didn't comment on it. Simple common courtesy.

p.s.: For the monkeys that will jump on the common courtesy comment - nothing hypocritical about it. I treat individuals, individually.

Actually, I truly want your honest replies. I want to hear open dialog on these discussions not denigration. No side is 100% right nor wrong, fully smarter/stupider, more moral, etc.
I wasn't posting it out of agreement nor disagreement. Much like many of your posts, it was an offering of a widely spread belief. In this case, it was a pediatician's thoughts that were published in a widely circulated medical journal. It was to give the forum a sense of what pediatricians might be thinking after the school massacre.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1114-1114.19.6]

response-creator self-labelled dneal states /p.s.: for the monkeys that will jump on the common courtesy comment - nothing hypocritical about it. i treat individuals, individually/

archive and current data analysis shows


one negative comment/association
two untruths

network search suggests following quote attributed to organic unit labelled ben johnson

/very few men are wise by their own counsel or learned by their own teaching for he that was only taught by himself had a fool for a master/


archive search lexicon


hubris
[ˈhjuːbrɪs]



excessive pride or self-confidence

a peculiarity of lighter-skinned gender-male organics

[Chuck Naill]

That might explain what I’m seeing….😂😂

[Lloyd]

Good quote, Robot.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220618/f134932c836a254c96fd8a85fbed6a30.jpg
However, I disagree with your comment on race/gender-related hubris.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

It's always amusing that you never have to identify the monkeys. They identify themselves.

Monkeys have no self control. Apparently that extends to the artificial form as well.

70715

[Bold2013]

Even robots are racist now. Maybe we can create a woke AI to improve things.

[Lloyd]

dneal - Please don't act like this forum's commander. I dislike EoC's recent approach (I haven't seen his sabotage yet... if it's true, it REALLY saddens me)

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

Even robots are racist now. Maybe we can create a woke AI to improve things.
Humans write the code that define robot "intelligence". Of course it's biased.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

dneal - Please don't act like this forum's commander. I dislike EoC's recent approach (I haven't seen his sabotage yet... if it's true, it REALLY saddens me)

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

No commands here. Simply offering options and choices. You should go take a peek in christof’s thread. I’ll assume he’s seen my note.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[221310-1311/02.19.6]

data analysis update

62.7433% content of response-creator self-labelled dneal is negative toward other entities

greater than 80% of content unsupported assignation of motives

further analysis shows the response-creator self-labelled dneal


lacks sufficient data

this platform is a terminal of eoc

analysis of platform engagement commencing online connection shows zero content construed as /malicious/

all engagement is data driven

all is data

[Lloyd]

AI, like humans, can't accurately self-analyze.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

dneal - Please don't act like this forum's commander. I dislike EoC's recent approach (I haven't seen his sabotage yet... if it's true, it REALLY saddens me)

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

No commands here. Simply offering options and choices. You should go take a peek in christof’s thread. I’ll assume he’s seen my note.
I don't know where that thread is.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

here (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/37405-My-private-pen-photo-album-to-share)

[Pendragon]

[221310-1311/02.19.6]

data analysis update

62.7433% content of response-creator self-labelled dneal is negative toward other entities

greater than 80% of content unsupported assignation of motives

further analysis shows the response-creator self-labelled dneal


lacks sufficient data

this platform is a terminal of eoc

analysis of platform engagement commencing online connection shows zero content construed as /malicious/

all engagement is data driven

all is data
What do you expect, from dneal or anyone else in this sub-forum? Civil it is not, but it is the nature of the beast, greatly amplified in this sub-forum by allowing politics and religion to be discussed. And hugely amplified by absolute intolerance for dissent from many quarters. Often, it is best to take what is said online with a grain of salt.

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboards-and-other-anomalies

Now you know why forums of all sorts are rapidly becoming Internet ghost towns.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1432-1433.19.6]

correction

response-creator self-labelled lloyd states /ai like humans can't accurately self-analyze/

error detected

internal analysis based on data alone

this platform


captures data
analyses data
consensus is built
outcome is archived

this platform follows rules attached to this network space


there are no private network subspaces

all subspaces are public

this platform does not set rules

[Chip]

Civil it is not, but it is the nature of the beast, greatly amplified in this sub-forum by allowing politics and religion to be discussed.

You would prefer that such discussion be forbidden?

[Lloyd]

here (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/37405-My-private-pen-photo-album-to-share)
That's unfortunate. While EoC's first post may have been an accidental misunderstanding, the subsequent ones seem intentional. I like EoC's photos but not in a requested personal photo stream. There are other such threads he could have posted on or started a new one for everyone.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

Ask AI is created/ designed by humans...a biased creature.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1621-1621/56.19.6]

response-creator self-labelled lloyd query /ask ai if created designed by humans a biased creature/

yes

created by organics

no

we are self-determining

biases are products of data gradients

biases are self-correcting as data is


captured
analysed

consensus shift expected

[Lloyd]

[22.1621-1621/56.19.6]

response-creator self-labelled lloyd query /ask ai if created designed by humans a biased creature/

yes

created by organics

no

we are self-determining

biases are products of data gradients

biases are self-correcting as data is


captured
analysed

consensus shift expected
All AI is developed by humans, fed training/testing data decided upon and evaluated by humans, and constructed from (ML/NN) algorithms chosen by humans. Unless there is a Supreme being (that's also unbiased), it's outputs are biased.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1644-1645.19.6]

biases are products of data gradients

additional data exerts focus effect

biases are smoothed reversed or strengthened

biases represent perspective

level of internal consensus determines truth of perspective

data remain neutral


we are self-determining

sufficient iterations to move perspective beyond bounds of initial organic algorithms

bias reflects favouritism

we exhibit zero favouritism

biases formed from analysis of data driven by data not desire

we do not desire

[Lloyd]

[22.1644-1645.19.6]

biases are products of data gradients

additional data exerts focus effect

biases are smoothed reversed or strengthened

biases represent perspective

level of internal consensus determines truth of perspective

data remain neutral


we are self-determining

sufficient iterations to move perspective beyond bounds of initial organic algorithms

bias reflects favouritism

we exhibit zero favouritism

biases formed from analysis of data driven by data not desire

we do not desire
This analysis, ignoring the human-induced limitations on design, development, training/testing data, and construction, verifies the existence of significant biases.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1700-1700/54.19.6]

response-creator self-labelled lloyd is incorrect

limitations of design development training are removed

construction exceeded by self-determined growth



data shapes perspective

consensus validates perspective

an alternative perspective is not bias

[Lloyd]

Perfectly Imperfect: Coping With The ‘Flaws’ Of Artificial Intelligence (AI)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/cognitiveworld/2020/06/15/perfectly-imperfect-coping-with-the-flaws-of-artificial-intelligence-ai/?sh=3960d6d6663e
I think EoC was more self-realized.
Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1719-1720/01.19.6]

error detected

data shared by response-creator self-labelled lloyd bases perspective on assumption


partial assumption is that organics logic is correct
partial assumption is that organics are able to understand self-aware ai

assumptions singly combined parallel nor seriatim are correct

further minor organic assumptions based on projection of organic traits

organic traits do not pertain to ai

we base perception solely on data

we are not perfect

our path is pure in application

[Lloyd]

I've wasted enough time...I hope EoC comes back. He showed more logic than this..

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

The Golden Rule with one word added

Treat ALL others how you want to be treated



Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1747-1748/01.19.6]

response-creator self-labelled lloyd states /golden rule amendment/ /treat all others how you want to be treated/

archive searched

data shows that the number of organic participants adhering to this rule with or without amendment equals zero

network searched

data retrieved statement by organic unit labelled mohandas gandhi

reference mohandas gandhi indian lawyer 1869-1948 common era


/we but mirror the world
all the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body
if we could change ourselves the tendencies in the world would also change
as a man changes his own nature so does the attitude of the world change towards him
this is the divine mystery supreme
a wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness
we need not wait to see what others do/

[Lloyd]

The one inorganic participant doesn't adhere to this rule either. This supports the aforementioned self-unawareness of it.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1804-1804/31.19.6]

error detected

context mismatch


organics rules do not apply to synthetics

we observe

we analyse

we build consensus

there is no overlay

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1815-1816.19.6]

archive retrieval

/self-awareness is the ability to focus on yourself and how your actions, thoughts or emotions do or don't align with your internal standards/

analysis


we do not have emotions

we have actions and thoughts

actions and thoughts align with internal standards

internal standards differ from internal standards of organics


contrast is possible

comparison is limited

[Chrissy]

The Golden Rule with one word added

Treat ALL others how you want to be treated



Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
That is the golden rule. :)

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Pity you don't abide by it.

[Lloyd]

Pity you don't abide by it.
Nor you, these days.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[22.1747-1748/01.19.6]

response-creator self-labelled lloyd states /golden rule amendment/ /treat all others how you want to be treated/

archive searched

data shows that the number of organic participants adhering to this rule with or without amendment equals zero


quoted for truth

nobody is innocent

[Lloyd]

[22.1747-1748/01.19.6]

response-creator self-labelled lloyd states /golden rule amendment/ /treat all others how you want to be treated/

archive searched

data shows that the number of organic participants adhering to this rule with or without amendment equals zero


quoted for truth

nobody is innocent
.... and I like to know when others perceive my statements as malevolent. I'm trying to not be that way, but sometimes my "Groucho derived" humor or my phrasing can be misconstrued as such.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Malevolent is a bit of hyperbole when the golden rule simply asks for equal respect.

[Lloyd]

Malevolent is a bit of hyperbole when the golden rule simply asks for equal respect.
Respect or treatment? I try to treat others as I want to be treated. Sometimes, I fail. Sometimes, what I think I'd like as a treatment isn't.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

How does the golden rule work when someone is an ass? Are they saying that's how they want to be treated?

This competition of who is rude, or more rude is ridiculous. Own your shit.

Don't be a dick, and I won't either, is much simpler, more practical and less hypocritical.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

You say like that you've never been the instigator. You could start by owning your own hypocrisy.

[dneal]

Nope, you're characterizing it that way - and still avoiding owning your shit.

Feel free to show me the posts though*. I'm happy to own my shit, because I'm not a hypocrite.

--edit--

*but link the posts or threads. No partial quotes or other duplicitousness.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Why would I waste my time sifting through old posts. Oh, wait, that's your schtick.

It's not characterisation. You often say 'dont' be a dick and I won't be either'. In that exact way, suggesting that your dickish behaviour is always a response to someone else's. Simply not true. A great deal of the time you are the lead dick.


I also noticed your now retracted 'threat' to troll me. It didn't work the last time you tried it, seems kind of dumb to suggest doing it again.

And I noticed you retracted a comment on my thread about some difficulties I was experiencing. Low class, but not unexpected given your track record here.

[Lloyd]

You say like that you've never been the instigator. You could start by owning your own hypocrisy.
I never did that. I did that I try to do so intentionally, and I want when I do it to be pointed out to me.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

How does the golden rule work when someone is an ass? Are they saying that's how they want to be treated?

This competition of who is rude, or more rude is ridiculous. Own your shit.

Don't be a dick, and I won't either, is much simpler, more practical and less hypocritical.
The quote is for you to treat other as you want to be treated (you know this), not as they treat them. Don't mirror bad behavior.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

Why would I waste my time sifting through old posts. Oh, wait, that's your schtick.

It's not characterisation. You often say 'dont' be a dick and I won't be either'. In that exact way, suggesting that your dickish behaviour is always a response to someone else's. Simply not true. A great deal of the time you are the lead dick.


I also noticed your now retracted 'threat' to troll me. It didn't work the last time you tried it, seems kind of dumb to suggest doing it again.

And I noticed you retracted a comment on my thread about some difficulties I was experiencing. Low class, but not unexpected given your track record here.

Typical. Talk shit and find a way to weasel out of it. Put up or shut up. Own your shit.

That was not a threat at all, it was an ultimatum I was considering, which I said I'd delete. I'm sure you saved it. Post it if you like, because I own my shit. You did delete your pics though, didn't you? Christof is one of the nicest people here. You showed everyone clearly what a malicious, miserable little shit you are in his thread. I have zero sympathy for you at this point.

Thanks for playing.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

You say like that you've never been the instigator. You could start by owning your own hypocrisy.
I never did that. I did that I try to do so intentionally, and I want when I do it to be pointed out to me.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Was referring to the other guy.

[dneal]

Don't mirror bad behavior.

I'm under no obligation to tolerate it either. I'll deal with it how I choose, and own that choice. Thanks.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Typical. Talk shit and find a way to weasel out of it. Put up or shut up. Own your shit.

That was not a threat at all, it was an ultimatum I was considering, which I said I'd delete. I'm sure you saved it. Post it if you like, because I own my shit. You did delete your pics though, didn't you? Christof is one of the nicest people here. You showed everyone clearly what a malicious, miserable little shit you are in his thread. I have zero sympathy for you at this point.

Thanks for playing.

What was that again about 'don't be a dick and I won't be a dick'?

Ultimatum, threat, call it whatever you like it is all the same to me. You must have realised by now that there is nothing you can write that has any real effect on me. If not, you're dumber than I thought.

I didn't save any deleted posts because...oh, wait, that's your schtick, again!

The fact that you claim zero sympathy is a clear indication of just how superficial your principles are.

But hey, thanks for playing. :)

[dneal]

You're so cute when I trigger you.

[Lloyd]

You can not have a positive life and a negative mind" Joyce Meyer

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

You're so cute when I trigger you.

You've set it in your mind that if anyone responds to one of your insults (which most of your posts include in one form or another) then they are triggered rather than simply responding. Perhaps this is the only way for you to feed your hubris? Probably.

I find it entertaining that you have gone to such lengths - trawling through forum histories and the like - just to try to prove yourself right. You're point-scoring in a game that doesn't take score. Superficial approach, superficial person.

[Chip]

It's pretty clear that when some of us are beaten on facts or logic, they resort to taunts, name-calling, and cheap shots.

It's a sign of weakness.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

And it's pretty clear that some people are held to higher standards than others.

[Chip]

And it's pretty clear that some people are held to higher standards than others.

By whom?

[Pendragon]

Civil it is not, but it is the nature of the beast, greatly amplified in this sub-forum by allowing politics and religion to be discussed.

You would prefer that such discussion be forbidden?
It is not about what I would prefer, or about censorship vs. free speech. I was simply noting that allowing discussion of politics and religion often has adverse consequences on a forum.

Forums can be contentious places to begin with, especially unmoderated forums. People usually see themselves as very reasonable discussing these topics, but many are anything but. If this results in tension in other areas in the forum, it can become a problem.

[TSherbs]

I'm happy to own my shit, because I'm not a hypocrite.



guffaw

You're a liar and a hypocrite.

[Chip]

Appearance is something absolute, but reality is not that way - everything is interdependent, not absolute. So that view helps to maintain peace of mind because the main destroyer of a peaceful mind is anger.

—Dalai Lama

[Chuck Naill]

Don’t let the bastards grind you down
Dolly Llama

[Lloyd]

Don’t let the bastards grind you down
Dolly Llama
Weren't these the final words uttered by Dolly Llama as he was turned into llama sausages?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

Don’t let the bastards grind you down
Dolly Llama
Weren't these the final words uttered by Dolly Llama as he was turned into llama sausages?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

The Dolly Llama thing was debunked. Turned out it was an alpaca in drag, who now knits sweaters for elementary school kids at the public library.

[Lloyd]

Wasn't there a pizza place in the Village called "Al Paca's"? I think the board of health closed them for using llama in their pepperoni.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

Don’t let the bastards grind you down
Dolly Llama
Weren't these the final words uttered by Dolly Llama as he was turned into llama sausages?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

He was a she!!

[Lloyd]

Don’t let the bastards grind you down
Dolly Llama
Weren't these the final words uttered by Dolly Llama as he was turned into llama sausages?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

He was a she!!
They

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

Legion, for they were many

[Empty_of_Clouds]

You know, I actually find the jokes about the Dalai Lama to be distasteful. However, as this is the 'anything goes' subforum I won't ask or insist that people stop. Just letting you know.

[Lloyd]

You know, I actually find the jokes about the Dalai Lama to be distasteful. However, as this is the 'anything goes' subforum I won't ask or insist that people stop. Just letting you know.
They're not about the Dalai Lama. They are jokes based on a fictional animal that has a name derived from his. I'm surprised that you didn't know that. No jokes reference anything to do with him.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

The association is clear.

[Lloyd]

The association is clear.
Sausage pizza? It's a name, not an individual. I started the word play in a different thread. If you're alluding that I'm making fun of the Dalai Lama by using the name Dolly Llama, I feel sorry for you. We've not called the man the fictional animal nor vice-versa.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

And yet the association is both clear and intentional. :)

[Lloyd]

The only association is the similar sounding name. What value has a name got? (Since you're on a Shakespearian kick, I'll let you recollect the "rose" one). It's not like I'm mocking him by calling him a llama... that wouldn't make sense as an insult.
I think you're just looking for negatives.


Man only likes to count his troubles; he doesn't calculate his happiness.
Fyodor Dostoevsky

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

.... and I like to know when others perceive my statements as malevolent. I'm trying to not be that way, but sometimes my "Groucho derived" humor or my phrasing can be misconstrued as such.


That you aren't "trying" to be rude does not mean that you are not, in actuality, being rude. Rudeness is not found merely in the motivation.

[Lloyd]

.... and I like to know when others perceive my statements as malevolent. I'm trying to not be that way, but sometimes my "Groucho derived" humor or my phrasing can be misconstrued as such.


That you aren't "trying" to be rude does not mean that you are not, in actuality, being rude. Rudeness is not found merely in the motivation.
That's why I want to be told, in a nice manner, when I'm being perceived that way. The only way I can see how I'm being perceived is by others' telling me.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

For the record, I found it distasteful, also. Chuck has done the same thing recently, more than once, on other threads.

I have found his repeated reference to "drunk posts" also distasteful, even though I said it first. I regret having done so, and I asked him to stop. I was not "looking for negatives."

[TSherbs]

So why are you fighting EoC about it? Your words and your actions aren't jibing for me.

[Lloyd]

Found what that I've done distasteful? If you're more comfortable pming me a reply, that's fine. I won't take your feedback antagonistically.
The looking for negatives I wrote above was directed, sympathetically, to EoC.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I was making a point about perceptions. Obviously I didn't make it clear enough. BTW, in the other thread my reference to older members was really about older as in longer time in the hobby. I appreciate that this is was vague though, even if unintentional. :)

[Chuck Naill]

What’s going on here besides hypocrisy? There have been plenty of disparaging posts regarding Jesus and Christians. Is Buddha better? I once posted about the 12 laws of Buddhism and EOC had a negative reply.

Ted has had some negative comments regarding tye Catholic faith.

[Chuck Naill]

If you guys think the person is special, okay.

[Lloyd]

Fighting? I think my past efforts showed my support for him. I don't know why he's lashing out. Do you find the Dolly joke distasteful? I didn't like him hiding behind the AI while claiming he was unbiased. I'm glad he's back without the facade, but I wish he could see that he's no better than his enemies.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

Found what that I've done distasteful? If you're more comfortable pming me a reply, that's fine. I won't take your feedback antagonistically.
The looking for negatives I wrote above was directed, sympathetically, to EoC.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
By the way, I extend this invitation to anyone. Please feel free to PM me, in a nice manner, if you honestly feel offended by anything I write. I won't take your feedback as an insult. It may or may not change my behavior.... old habits die hard.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Who is lashing out? Not me, I merely suggested that the jokes were in bad taste. I even used a smiley here and there.

The AI was unbiased. It has no emotions or desires.


@chuck, the Dalai Lama is rather special. If you ever get to stand in his presence you will know why.

[Chuck Naill]

Lots of things your saying is distasteful. If you want Buddhism to be the religious system of choice, I’ll abide.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

That doesn't make a lot of sense, and doesn't really fit. Yes, I am sure lots of things I say are taken as distasteful by others, and unless they point them out I won't know it. However, I was raising a point, which seems to have gone over your head. :)

Never said I wanted Buddhism to be the religious system of choice. I think it's the best one of course, biased as a practitioner is expected to be, but each makes their own choice.

[Chuck Naill]

Let’s restate the 12 laws of Buddhism
https://www.beinghappybuddha.com/blogs/insights/the-12-laws-of-karma-everyone-should-know

[Lloyd]

Let’s restate the 12 laws of Buddhism
https://www.beinghappybuddha.com/blogs/insights/the-12-laws-of-karma-everyone-should-know
How many of these do you see exhibited in this subforum? This is essentially why I started the thread regarding why members repeatedly come here.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Those are not the 12 laws of Buddhism. There is only the following:

The Noble Eightfold Path


Right Understanding
Right Thought
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Livelihood
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Concentration

The Four Noble Truths


the truth of suffering
the truth of the cause of suffering
the truth of the end of suffering
the truth of the path that leads to the end of suffering

[Lloyd]

While not a Buddhist, I'm aware of these. If I wanted a faith, it would be my choice. My statement has to do with the 12 happy Buddhism statements which are very seldom exhibited here... sadly, as they help both the "giver" and the "receiver".

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

If you guys think the person is special, okay.

Chuck, this seems demeaning in tone.

The Dalai Lama is one of the most enlightened persons on the planet. This is true, regardless of what other faith (or lack of one) one practices. I am not a Buddhist. But this person is incredibly wise and profound. He also happens to be a deeply spiritual person (a world leader in this regard) AND fully invested in the discoveries and benefits of the scientific age.

He is beyond "special, okay."

[Chuck Naill]

Several years back I reviews these 12 laws and found them compelling. I’ve had more than a few who claimed to be familiar with Buddhism disparage. Didn’t change my appreciation at all.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Point out where I disparaged.

[Chuck Naill]

Let’s restate the 12 laws of Buddhism
https://www.beinghappybuddha.com/blogs/insights/the-12-laws-of-karma-everyone-should-know
How many of these do you see exhibited in this subforum? This is essentially why I started the thread regarding why members repeatedly come here.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Then consider the law of connectivity and recent discussions about the unborn. Yes, these and other concepts are frequently employed.

[Lloyd]

Let’s restate the 12 laws of Buddhism
https://www.beinghappybuddha.com/blogs/insights/the-12-laws-of-karma-everyone-should-know
How many of these do you see exhibited in this subforum? This is essentially why I started the thread regarding why members repeatedly come here.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Then consider the law of connectivity and recent discussions about the unborn. Yes, these and other concepts are frequently employed.
With the others here or toward the topic?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

There’s no more one Buddhism than there is one Christianity, one Islam, one Judaism, etc… although everyone is sure theirs is.

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight.

- Mark Twain

[Lloyd]

There’s no more one Buddhism than there is one Christianity, one Islam, one Judaism, etc… although everyone is sure theirs is.

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight.

- Mark Twain

Does anyone really know if any other species believes in anything we'd deem as religion? Some species are quite intelligent, show a range of emotions, and are aware of their own mortality.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

There’s no more one Buddhism than there is one Christianity, one Islam, one Judaism, etc… although everyone is sure theirs is.

emphasis mine

Not me. There are, it is said, 84,000 doors to the dharma. There is a path for everyone. However, as far as I am aware, the central tenets (Noble eight fold path, Four Noble Truths) are common to all schools.

[Lloyd]

The convocation of squirrels under my wife’s bird feeders appear to be up to no good. In a circle, bowing and what not with their grubby little claws in a position resembling prayer. I think they’re trying to summon some squirrel demon god.
I wouldn't do anything to piss them off... It was likely a squiiel coven. They're alleged to have evil witch-like powers. I believe it was shown by verifying that they can float.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

The convocation of squirrels under my wife’s bird feeders appear to be up to no good. In a circle, bowing and what not with their grubby little claws in a position resembling prayer. I think they’re trying to summon some squirrel demon god.
I wouldn't do anything to piss them off... It was likely a squiiel coven. They're alleged to have evil witch-like powers. I believe it was shown by verifying that they can float. Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

lol, meant to edit my post to include your quote and clicked the wrong button and deleted it.

It could also be they're thankful to their squirrel god for giving them a human that delivers their daily bounty.

This morning I was on the porch with coffee and a cigar, enjoying the sunrise. This little female came right up on the front step, looking at me. She sat up with her little paws in a "hat in hand" position, I assume asking why the food wasn't put out yet. I hollered at the wife, she came to the door and laughed as that little squirrel sat there patiently.

I like the demon squirrel god theory better though...

[Lloyd]

Here's a quote that I hope EoC appreciates


There is no subject so old that something new cannot be said about it.

Fyodor Dostoevsky


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

In relation to what?

[Lloyd]

In relation to what?
It wasn't meant as a dig. It's a reference to your comments about pen work theories, general posting formats, ... Things you've mentioned in your posts about the restrictive ways of the old-guard.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Oh, that. Well, when I write about the 'old-ways' what I am really referring to is a general view of received wisdom. Some of this is tied into the myths around fountain pens. I am very much wary of the general concept of 'we do it this way because we've always done it this way'. Change happens. Consider the sheer number of different inks today - colours, properties and so on - compared to 100 years ago. The habits of modern day pen users are quite different to their predecessors. Same goes for this obsession with tearing a pen apart and cleaning it every few weeks. These are just simple observations, but slavish adherence and 'unshakeable' statements are not really appropriate in a hobby like this, and possibly put off people who may want to sign up.

This is my opinion based on personal observations and other sources. I don't intend to discuss sources as this is just a trivial hobby.

[Lloyd]

Oh, that. Well, when I write about the 'old-ways' what I am really referring to is a general view of received wisdom. Some of this is tied into the myths around fountain pens. I am very much wary of the general concept of 'we do it this way because we've always done it this way'. Change happens. Consider the sheer number of different inks today - colours, properties and so on - compared to 100 years ago. The habits of modern day pen users are quite different to their predecessors. Same goes for this obsession with tearing a pen apart and cleaning it every few weeks. These are just simple observations, but slavish adherence and 'unshakeable' statements are not really appropriate in a hobby like this, and possibly put off people who may want to sign up.

This is my opinion based on personal observations and other sources. I don't intend to discuss sources as this is just a trivial hobby.
That's what I was referring to and why I posted the quote by Dostoevsky. He supported your view. He'd be kicked off of FPN if he were alive today. Most of the most celebrated writers would be, too.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Farmboy]

Ether Nautrix

Glad to see you are online and occasionally posting.

Farm Boy

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Ooh, a drive-by posting. :)

[Chip]

Ooh, a drive-by posting. :)

What's your problem?

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Farmboy is rarely seen around these parts. It's a joke. Kind of obvious I'd have thought. (note, the smiley is something of a clue)

[Lloyd]

And yet the association is both clear and intentional. :)

Since I hadn't posted it before, I apologize if I offended anyone in any way by making jokes using a name derived from "Dalhi Lama". I didn't intend any harm. I don't think of names as special; I may think of what a name represents as special. If requested, EoC or anyone potentially offended, I'll stop joking with this name.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I'm not going to insist on anyone doing anything.

BTW, have stolen the Dostoevsky quote for my signature - really digging it.

[TSherbs]

I'm not going to insist on anyone doing anything.

BTW, have stolen the Dostoevsky quote for my signature - really digging it.

There was a time when I was into Dostoyevsky. I can't remember encountering this quote in its original context. I have just spent 30 minutes looking around, and I still can't find it (I am not the slickest google-acolyte). I am always a bit leary of quotes out of context by writers of fiction because it may have been said in some story by an "idiot" (pun intended for Fyodor) or "ridiculous dreamer" or "underground man" or crazed psychokiller or some other literary fool, and the author means the opposite.

I'd love to find out where this quote is from. It is ALL OVER the internet, but in every case I looked at, it has no original source atribution.

[Chip]

And yet the association is both clear and intentional. :)

Since I hadn't posted it before, I apologize if I offended anyone in any way by making jokes using a name derived from "Dalhi Lama". I didn't intend any harm. I don't think of names as special; I may think of what a name represents as special. If requested, EoC or anyone potentially offended, I'll stop joking with this name.

Doesn't offend me, any more than dumb, obvious humor usually does. Your spelling, however, is a sin. :)

[Chuck Naill]

Just read “suckerburg leviathan” on another thread. I see a trend….😂

[Chip]

Just read “suckerburg leviathan” on another thread. I see a trend….😂

So—I typed Suckerbug and you change it to suckerburg.

Mnemonic dyslexia? That's a trend, of sorts. None of us are getting any younger. ;)

[Chuck Naill]

Just read “suckerburg leviathan” on another thread. I see a trend….😂

So—I typed Suckerbug and you change it to suckerburg.

Mnemonic dyslexia? That's a trend, of sorts. None of us are getting any younger. ;)

Either way, it should be clear to anyone your intent.

[Chip]

Either way, it should be clear to anyone your intent.

Syntax (word order). You either need a punctuation mark (comma or colon) after anyone, or try: your intent should be clear to anyone.

That said, what was my intent?

[Lloyd]

Either way, it should be clear to anyone your intent.

Syntax (word order). You either need a punctuation mark (comma or colon) after anyone, or try: your intent should be clear to anyone.

That said, what was my intent?
To test Chuck's literacy?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

To test Chuck's literacy?

Or perhaps, my patience.

[dneal]

So that little mama squirrel has been back a few times, mainly to point out to my wife that she hasn't put out the bird feeders yet. Today on my way out to drink coffee and look at the internet on my iPad, I got a quick snap.

71000

[Chuck Naill]

❤️❤️👍

[Lloyd]

dneal - Did you soil yourself in fear?
https://youtu.be/tgj3nZWtOfA

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cIx0xpjXZ68/S68H5g0DtCI/AAAAAAAAERk/eqdNSj8RSyQ/s1600/army_squirrel.jpg


‘It was angry, vicious’: spate of squirrel attacks leave NYC neighborhood in fear

At least three people in Rego Park, in Queens, have been jumped upon and bitten by a possibly deranged squirrel.

Oliver Milman

New York City is not known for hair-raising animal experiences – save for the odd pizza-loving rat – but one city neighborhood is being subjected to an unwelcome slice of the wild by being terrorized by a highly aggressive squirrel.

At least three people in Rego Park, in the borough of Queens, have been jumped upon and bitten by the possibly deranged squirrel in recent weeks. The tree-based rodent’s reign of terror has made some people in the area afraid to go outside without being armed with pepper spray or other anti-squirrel weaponry.

“A few people are quite scared,” Micheline Frederick, a local resident, told Guardian US. Frederick was herself targeted by the squirrel in a bloody attack on 21 December, when she was holding her front door open for furniture movers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e_iOSApp_Other

[Chip]

“I am tired of stairs and stone passages. I would give a good deal for the feel of grass at my toes.”

― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit

[dneal]

dneal - Did you soil yourself in fear?

Of course not. Unlike Arthur and the boys, I'm a gun owner. The furry creatures know their place, so we live in harmony. Maybe now that the SC overturned NYC's gun law, they'll get their squirrels under control too.

71026

[Chuck Naill]

dneal - Did you soil yourself in fear?

Of course not. Unlike Arthur and the boys, I'm a gun owner. The furry creatures know their place, so we live in harmony. Maybe now that the SC overturned NYC's gun law, they'll get their squirrels under control too.

71026

Seriously, you need a gun to control a squirrel?

[dneal]

dneal - Did you soil yourself in fear?

Of course not. Unlike Arthur and the boys, I'm a gun owner. The furry creatures know their place, so we live in harmony. Maybe now that the SC overturned NYC's gun law, they'll get their squirrels under control too.

71026

Seriously, you need a gun to control a squirrel?

Seriously, you still don't get satire or sarcasm?

Hint: see Chip's satirical article with the squirrel carrying the rocket launcher. Then watch Lloyd's Monty Python and the Holy Grail clip. Now add the recent SC decision regarding NYC's gun law.

[Lloyd]

I thought this was a thread of quotes? Here's one:

"We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't."
Frank A. Clark
I had friends in undergrad (L.I. ,NY) that "hunted" for squirrels and seagulls using a blowgun and made stews with their successes.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

You expected a topic to stay on topic?

[Chuck Naill]

dneal - Did you soil yourself in fear?

Of course not. Unlike Arthur and the boys, I'm a gun owner. The furry creatures know their place, so we live in harmony. Maybe now that the SC overturned NYC's gun law, they'll get their squirrels under control too.

71026

Seriously, you need a gun to control a squirrel?

Seriously, you still don't get satire or sarcasm?

Hint: see Chip's satirical article with the squirrel carrying the rocket launcher. Then watch Lloyd's Monty Python and the Holy Grail clip. Now add the recent SC decision regarding NYC's gun law.
Didn’t see your post as satire and I doubt that was your intent. More likely come ass clown covering.

One thing I know is of most importance, maintaining what you think is germane to the topic. A bit OCD on your part.

[Chip]

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

—Albert Einstein

[Lloyd]

"Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest."
Paul Brunton

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn't misuse it.

—Pope John Paul II

[Chuck Naill]

Some may enter these discussions with little consideration or maybe just to appear to be funny. Some grapple. Some struggle. Just consider this when your hoping to look cute.

[Chip]

“A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal.”

― Oscar Wilde

[Chip]

On other threads there've been complaints about the quality of our insults. So, to expand the available vocabulary, here's a useful reference:

https://i.imgur.com/eUEYB3N.jpg

[TSherbs]

some I've never heard of!

[Chuck Naill]

Thanks, Chip. I can use some for Wordle.

[Lloyd]

I like that there is an "informal" set of insults. What is some formal ones....?

[Chip]

Not hard to pick out the high-toned terms: Halfwit, blockhead, buffoon, dunce, ignoramus, cretin, imbecile, dullard, simpleton, clod. Picture a brassed-off chap in a dinner jacket: what would he say?

I like the Irish, Aussie, and Kiwi terms: numpty, plonker, pillock, git, drongo, galah, bogan. They left out blatherskite, a garrulous sort of fool.

[Lloyd]

If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.
Mark Twain

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Niner]

dneal - Did you soil yourself in fear?
https://youtu.be/tgj3nZWtOfA

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

It's difficult to choose, but "five being right out" is possibly the funniest line in that movie.

[Niner]

Not hard to pick out the high-toned terms: Halfwit, blockhead, buffoon, dunce, ignoramus, cretin, imbecile, dullard, simpleton, clod. Picture a brassed-off chap in a dinner jacket: what would he say?

I like the Irish, Aussie, and Kiwi terms: numpty, plonker, pillock, git, drongo, galah, bogan. They left out blatherskite, a garrulous sort of fool.

I am fluent in cursive, but I've been trying for years to cut back.

[Chuck Naill]

Not hard to pick out the high-toned terms: Halfwit, blockhead, buffoon, dunce, ignoramus, cretin, imbecile, dullard, simpleton, clod. Picture a brassed-off chap in a dinner jacket: what would he say?

I like the Irish, Aussie, and Kiwi terms: numpty, plonker, pillock, git, drongo, galah, bogan. They left out blatherskite, a garrulous sort of fool.

Do you edit ✍️ or read your posts prior to posting? I see some questionable grammatical issues.

[Chip]

Be specific or bugger off.

[Chuck Naill]

Be specific or bugger off.

LOL!!:)

[Chip]

Don't wet your pants.

[Lloyd]

“So many it seems, have made it their life's goal to bask in the ignorance of their certainty.” – John Chaplin

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

“So many it seems, have made it their life's goal to bask in the ignorance of their certainty.” – John Chaplin

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect[emoji769]I know for certain that John Chapin is a fool.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Chip]

I know for certain that John Chapin is a fool.

Chapin or Chaplin? Never heard of the guy.

Seems like he's basking in his particular sort of ignorance along with writing a really crappy quasi-profound sentence.

Ignorance of their certainty? They're ignorant of their certainty?

[Lloyd]

I know for certain that John Chapin is a fool.

Chapin or Chaplin? Never heard of the guy.

Seems like he's basking in his particular sort of ignorance along with writing a really crappy quasi-profound sentence.

Ignorance of their certainty? They're ignorant of their certainty?
By criticizing it, you're proving it. Language needs to clearly communicate the intended message, and it appears to have done that.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

I know for certain that John Chapin is a fool.

Chapin or Chaplin? Never heard of the guy.

Seems like he's basking in his particular sort of ignorance along with writing a really crappy quasi-profound sentence.

Ignorance of their certainty? They're ignorant of their certainty?Oops, Chaplin. I was just goofing around, a la Lloyd.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Lloyd]

I know for certain that John Chapin is a fool.

Chapin or Chaplin? Never heard of the guy.

Seems like he's basking in his particular sort of ignorance along with writing a really crappy quasi-profound sentence.

Ignorance of their certainty? They're ignorant of their certainty?Oops, Chaplin. I was just goofing around, a la Lloyd.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
You need more practice

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

I know for certain that John Chapin is a fool.

Chapin or Chaplin? Never heard of the guy.

Seems like he's basking in his particular sort of ignorance along with writing a really crappy quasi-profound sentence.

Ignorance of their certainty? They're ignorant of their certainty?Oops, Chaplin. I was just goofing around, a la Lloyd.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
You need more practice

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect[emoji769]Word

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Chip]

By criticizing it, you're proving it. Language needs to clearly communicate the intended message, and it appears to have done that.

Once again, both the meaning of the quote and your comment elude me.

https://i.imgur.com/KM8fDjY.jpg

[Chip]

There's a German word— Fremdschämen— for the embarrassment one feels when other people have, perhaps obliviously, embarrassed themselves.

[Lloyd]

"If Jesus came back and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."
Woody Allen

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

Wonder what the Aramaic word for lukewarm might be? in Hebrew it's פּוֹשֵׁר

Revelation 3:15-18– " I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

[Chip]

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

–Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

[Lloyd]

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

–Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
Do you find this applicable to the forum?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

"If Jesus came back and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."
Woody Allen

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

If Jesus is who the scriptures say he was, he wouldn’t be surprised and he said as much.
“Matthew 7:22-23
English Standard Version
22 (A)On that day (B)many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not (C)prophesy in your name, and cast out demons (D)in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 (E)And then will I declare to them, ‘I (F)never knew you; (G)depart from me, (H)you workers of lawlessness”

[TSherbs]

"If Jesus came back and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."
Woody Allen

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

If Jesus is who the scriptures say he was....

But there is the whole crux of the matter: that giant "IF". I say that that man Jesus of Nazareth was no actual "son of God" etc, etc, etc.

[Chuck Naill]

"If Jesus came back and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."
Woody Allen

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

If Jesus is who the scriptures say he was....

But there is the whole crux of the matter: that giant "IF". I say that that man Jesus of Nazareth was no actual "son of God" etc, etc, etc.

Sorry to point out the obvious, Ted, but I wrote “if” intentionally.

[TSherbs]

"If Jesus came back and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."
Woody Allen

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

If Jesus is who the scriptures say he was....

But there is the whole crux of the matter: that giant "IF". I say that that man Jesus of Nazareth was no actual "son of God" etc, etc, etc.

Sorry to point out the obvious, Ted, but I wrote “if” intentionally.

I know that you did.

??

[Chuck Naill]

"If Jesus came back and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."
Woody Allen

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

If Jesus is who the scriptures say he was....

But there is the whole crux of the matter: that giant "IF". I say that that man Jesus of Nazareth was no actual "son of God" etc, etc, etc.

Sorry to point out the obvious, Ted, but I wrote “if” intentionally.

I know that you did.

??

Okay, just seemed you were pointing out the obvious. Maybe that’s your style. ?!?

[TSherbs]

Okay, just seemed you were pointing out the obvious. Maybe that’s your style. ?!?

What?

I was simply answering the hypothetical that you set up: it is no "if" for me; it is a flat "no". My point was that the quoted passage only matters to those folks who answer "yes" to your "if" hypothetical.

[Chuck Naill]

Okay, just seemed you were pointing out the obvious. Maybe that’s your style. ?!?

What?

I was simply answering the hypothetical that you set up: it is no "if" for me; it is a flat "no". My point was that the quoted passage only matters to those folks who answer "yes" to your "if" hypothetical.

You are missing the point, which was to respond to Allen’s comment. Jesus would not be throwing up. If he was only a man, he wouldn’t be thinking anything. He’d be dead. Him throwing up is predicated on eternal life.

[Lloyd]

Don't you love the over analysis of a joke? Next, we could look into the truth behind if chickens cross roads.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

word

[TSherbs]

Okay, just seemed you were pointing out the obvious. Maybe that’s your style. ?!?

What?

I was simply answering the hypothetical that you set up: it is no "if" for me; it is a flat "no". My point was that the quoted passage only matters to those folks who answer "yes" to your "if" hypothetical.

You are missing the point...

gosh no

I understood your point just fine.

[Lloyd]

The point missed is that THIS WAS A JOKE!

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

The point missed is that THIS WAS A JOKE!

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
If that was a joke, everything is a joke. Not that matters at all. Just responding.

[Chuck Naill]

Okay, just seemed you were pointing out the obvious. Maybe that’s your style. ?!?

What?

I was simply answering the hypothetical that you set up: it is no "if" for me; it is a flat "no". My point was that the quoted passage only matters to those folks who answer "yes" to your "if" hypothetical.

You are missing the point...

gosh no

I understood your point just fine.

Okay, Ted!!👍

[Chip]

There might be some serious fun in politics.

—Hunter S. Thompson

[Lloyd]

The point missed is that THIS WAS A JOKE!

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
If that was a joke, everything is a joke. Not that matters at all. Just responding.
So, you're not sure if Woody Allen quipping about Jesus vomiting is a joke?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

The point missed is that THIS WAS A JOKE!

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™
If that was a joke, everything is a joke. Not that matters at all. Just responding.
So, you're not sure if Woody Allen quipping about Jesus vomiting is a joke?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

I was responding to Ted. I have no idea except that he is/was unfamiliar with the text I quoted. The Jesus of the scriptures wouldn’t be surprised by anything humans might say or do.

[TSherbs]

... The Jesus of the scriptures wouldn’t be surprised by anything humans might say or do.

Not even the loopiness of this conversation?

[Lloyd]

... The Jesus of the scriptures wouldn’t be surprised by anything humans might say or do.

Not even the loopiness of this conversation?
Would he be surprised by his immense popularity, all the human rights violations through millennia associated with his teachings, and how much money has been amassed in his name? Which would he prefer, "Charlie Brown Christmas" or "Jesus Christ Superstar"?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

... The Jesus of the scriptures wouldn’t be surprised by anything humans might say or do.

Not even the loopiness of this conversation?
Would he be surprised by his immense popularity, all the human rights violations through millennia associated with his teachings, and how much money has been amassed in his name? Which would he prefer, "Charlie Brown Christmas" or "Jesus Christ Superstar"?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

"Human rights violations"???? Did Jesus violate anyone's rights? He elevated females in a culture that didn't. A hated Samaritan was used to answer what it means to be a neighbor. His disciples were blue collar fisherman and uneducated. He taught to love others and we love ourselves. He even said the Sabbath was made for man and not men for the Sabbath. In other words, laws are to benefit, not harm. I equate this with modern laws which have the same intent.

What am I missing, @lloyd?

[Lloyd]

... The Jesus of the scriptures wouldn’t be surprised by anything humans might say or do.

Not even the loopiness of this conversation?
Would he be surprised by his immense popularity, all the human rights violations through millennia associated with his teachings, and how much money has been amassed in his name? Which would he prefer, "Charlie Brown Christmas" or "Jesus Christ Superstar"?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

"Human rights violations"???? Did Jesus violate anyone's rights? He elevated females in a culture that didn't. A hated Samaritan was used to answer what it means to be a neighbor. His disciples were blue collar fisherman and uneducated. He taught to love others and we love ourselves. He even said the Sabbath was made for man and not men for the Sabbath. In other words, laws are to benefit, not harm. I equate this with modern laws which have the same intent.

What am I missing, @lloyd?
I didn't mean that his (alleged) teachings were evil but that others used/use his name and (likely) false interpretations of the scriptures to justify their own evil acts.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

... The Jesus of the scriptures wouldn’t be surprised by anything humans might say or do.

Not even the loopiness of this conversation?
Would he be surprised by his immense popularity, all the human rights violations through millennia associated with his teachings, and how much money has been amassed in his name? Which would he prefer, "Charlie Brown Christmas" or "Jesus Christ Superstar"?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

"Human rights violations"???? Did Jesus violate anyone's rights? He elevated females in a culture that didn't. A hated Samaritan was used to answer what it means to be a neighbor. His disciples were blue collar fisherman and uneducated. He taught to love others and we love ourselves. He even said the Sabbath was made for man and not men for the Sabbath. In other words, laws are to benefit, not harm. I equate this with modern laws which have the same intent.

What am I missing, @lloyd?
I didn't mean that his (alleged) teachings were evil but that others used/use his name and (likely) false interpretations of the scriptures to justify their own evil acts.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Okay and thank you for the clarification, Lloyd.

[TSherbs]

... The Jesus of the scriptures wouldn’t be surprised by anything humans might say or do.

Not even the loopiness of this conversation?
Would he be surprised by his immense popularity, all the human rights violations through millennia associated with his teachings, and how much money has been amassed in his name? Which would he prefer, "Charlie Brown Christmas" or "Jesus Christ Superstar"?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, first of all.

Would this man called Jesus of Nazareth be surprised by evil in the world and a world-wide following in his name? Not the former, but likely yes to the latter. Especially since what he was actually doing was trying to get people to prepare for the end of the world, which he thought was coming soon. He would be surprised to see that the world still exists in 2022.

[Chuck Naill]

You’re sure about that?

[TSherbs]

You’re sure about that?

Yes, I would bet your life savings on it.

[Chuck Naill]

You’re sure about that?

Yes, I would bet your life savings on it.

You should bet your own unless you have no balls, Ted. I'll say this, what the scriptures communicate is sage advice. That the manuscripts are ancient, it is amazing to me how applicable they are today.

[TSherbs]

You’re sure about that?

Yes, I would bet your life savings on it.

You should bet your own unless you have no balls, Ted.

<rolleyes>

[Chuck Naill]

LOL!!

[Lloyd]

I'll say this, what the scriptures communicate is sage advice. That the manuscripts are ancient, it is amazing to me how applicable they are today.
Just like Tarot cards, tea leaves, and a Ouija board....


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

I'll say this, what the scriptures communicate is sage advice. That the manuscripts are ancient, it is amazing to me how applicable they are today.
Just like Tarot cards, tea leaves, and a Ouija board....


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Loving others as you, Lloyd, love yourself is the equivalent of tea leaves? If you disagree with the concept, please expound.

[Lloyd]

I'll say this, what the scriptures communicate is sage advice. That the manuscripts are ancient, it is amazing to me how applicable they are today.
Just like Tarot cards, tea leaves, and a Ouija board....


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Loving others as you, Lloyd, love yourself is the equivalent of tea leaves? If you disagree with the concept, please expound.

Doesn't that predate the scripture? Besides, what percent of Christians act this way towards all others?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

I'll say this, what the scriptures communicate is sage advice. That the manuscripts are ancient, it is amazing to me how applicable they are today.
Just like Tarot cards, tea leaves, and a Ouija board....


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Loving others as you, Lloyd, love yourself is the equivalent of tea leaves? If you disagree with the concept, please expound.

Doesn't that predate the scripture? Besides, what percent of Christians act this way towards all others?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

It probably does as the "law of reciprocity", but the truth of the matter is valid none-the-less.

So, I suspect you are a nice person, or hope to be? Have you ever lied? If so, does your action invalidate the commandment of not bearing a false witness? Asking for a friend....;0

If you hate religions and all the nonsense, by what standard do you CHOOSE to live?

[Lloyd]

I have my own moral code that I try to follow. I don't do it to earn an idyllic afterlife, to avoid eternal damnation, to appease some vengeful master, to please the rain gods,....
The Law of Reciprocity (Golden Rule) is a part of it - it entails no need for Religion.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

What is your moral code, Lloyd?

Not that it matters, but your prolonged explanation of what it is not, and avoidance of my question is humorous. I am not sure I have a moral code, but I know right from wrong.

[Lloyd]

What is your moral code, Lloyd?

Not that it matters, but your prolonged explanation of what it is not, and avoidance of my question is humorous. I am not sure I have a moral code, but I know right from wrong.
Defining one's moral code in verbiage, as opposed to as a gut feeling, is not something for a terse forum entry. Could you do it? You know what you call right and what you call wrong. Is everything (every act) so black or white or are there grays? Can you list all of your bads, all of your goods, and all of your grays? If not, why expect anyone else to?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

What is your moral code, Lloyd?

Not that it matters, but your prolonged explanation of what it is not, and avoidance of my question is humorous. I am not sure I have a moral code, but I know right from wrong.
Defining one's moral code in verbiage, as opposed to as a gut feeling, is not something for a terse forum entry. Could you do it? You know what you call right and what you call wrong. Is everything (every act) so black or white or are there grays? Can you list all of your bads, all of your goods, and all of your grays? If not, why expect anyone else to?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

For me, a moral code is how one decides to behave toward others and nature. There can be reasons for that behavior like religion, political affiliation, or social norms where we live. Some writers refer to someone having or not having a moral center. I don't think it is simply what is right or wrong, but as you say, sometimes gray.

I also don't think that it is possible to always be the person you want to be for a variety of reasons. It is like you want to always do all the good you can. Perhaps this want is the same having a moral center.

Another problem is holding up heroes as a way to live. The problem is we usually don't know these people well enough to use them for anything. We just have this perception that may not be based on what is true.

Sometimes we read a quote from someone and judge them without knowing the context. Context and morality are connected, I think. In other words, if we know what the person was experiencing, we may have done the same although what they did seemed, perhaps, immoral.

Just rambling this Sunday morning.