Informed

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Reading through a number of rather heated threads I notice a common clarion about being informed. So the question is, what exactly do people mean when they suggest that they are informed and that others should try to be informed?

[dneal]

Take the current Dobbs decision that is in the news. Many who are upset by the decision make claims about the Supreme Court "taking away women's right to choose", "outlawing abortion" among other things.

The decision does precisely one thing: It nullifies a previous decision. The result of that returns abortion law to the States, in accordance with the 10th Amendment of the Constitution. The original Roe decision (followed by Casey) is believed by some to provide a sort of carte blanche to any type of abortion - to include partial birth abortion. That wasn't true either, and an opinion expressed by the uninformed.

[Chuck Naill]

This is what I mean by being informed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informed_consent

[TSherbs]

Reading through a number of rather heated threads I notice a common clarion about being informed. So the question is, what exactly do people mean when they suggest that they are informed and that others should try to be informed?

On these threads, when a member says "get informed," it nearly always means "read more of the sources that I prefer so that you will then agree with my opinion."

[Bold2013]

Reading through a number of rather heated threads I notice a common clarion about being informed. So the question is, what exactly do people mean when they suggest that they are informed and that others should try to be informed?

On these threads, when a member says "get informed," it nearly always means "read more of the sources that I prefer so that you will then agree with my opinion."

Agreed

[dneal]

I agree with TSherbs that "get informed" nearly always means "read more of the sources I prefer so that you will then agree with my opinion".

It is no small irony that this was written by one of the most prolific sharers of sources [really opinion pieces] they appear to prefer, but in fairness he does not demand anyone "get informed" by reading it.

A very few members mean it genuinely and literally. If one is going to opine in a thread, they should at least take some time to familiarize themselves with the reference included in an OP (which one often is). To "get informed" about the topic or aspect of a topic being offered for discussion.

If one is going to offer an opinion on a court decision, one should perhaps read the 1-2 page syllabus to "get informed" what the opinion of the court actually says, as opposed to adopting an erroneous view they derived from a similarly erroneous op-ed.

If one is going to opine on matters of fact, some basic understanding those facts - or to "get informed" - seems requisite; but instead they display their ignorance.

It's no wonder so many prove the aphorism that "Opinions are like buttholes - everybody has one.", and that "most of them stink".

[dneal]

I suppose you could take the notion to the absurd. No offering an opinion on an upcoming solar eclipse unless you are an astrophysicist, for example, but that's not really what I'm saying. I used phrases like: Some time to familarize. Perhaps read the syllabus of a decision. Basic understanding of facts.

I suppose I should have added something along the lines of giving a fair reading.

[dneal]

Ferchrissakes man, I'm not saying we need to be experts. There are plenty of things even the experts don't know. Hell, economists disagree on reasons for inflation.

I'm just saying, for example, if you want to weigh in on an abortion argument you might take a moment to check what the Mississippi law requires. 15 weeks. You might check what European laws are. 14 weeks in Belgium for "on request" abortions. 24 weeks in The Netherlands. Northern Ireland just allowed them in 2020 apparently, and 12 weeks is the standard. New Zealand? 20 weeks. That took me a couple of minutes. Instead (and I don't mean to pick on him), Linger posts something about "your daughters, sisters, mothers and wives have no right over their own body anymore".

[Lloyd]

How's about the climate change or vaccine "debates" by neither immunological not true climate researchers? Do laymen really think the casual and predictive climate models are so simplistic anyone can understand them with a few months of reading?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

Lloyd - of course not. Did I advocate anything resembling that in my earlier posts?

We can, of course, for those issues where the science is assuredly not settled, share and look at information provided by experts on both sides, who present it layman's terms. Jay Bhattacharya is an epidemiologist and professor of public health. He conducts interviews and writes on the subject, for us laymen. Jonathan Haidt is a PhD in psychology. He writes an editorial on his research, for us laymen.

This isn't a difficult idea, but for some reason you are jumping on the same bandwagon of the absurd.

[Lloyd]

I worked with a very bright engineer who alleged no climate change issue. He based it on his own analyses... which couldn't be as thorough as climatologists; I talked with him enough to know. In many fields, there are a handful that have a differing view. However, if the opposing view is very strong in the majority among those on the top ranks (not the talking heads), I'd put my money on that.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

Cholesterol levels and heart disease were correlated for decades. The famous Framingham study. The American Heart Association.

Wanna guess what a meta analysis of all the studies recently concluded?

Experts once said trans fats were healthy, and eggs were not. What’s today’s consensus? Want more? Electroshock therapy and lobotomies were treatments for mental disorders.

[Lloyd]

Cholesterol levels and heart disease were correlated for decades. The famous Framingham study. The American Heart Association.

Wanna guess what a meta analysis of all the studies recently concluded?

Experts once said trans fats were healthy, and eggs were not. What’s today’s consensus? Want more? Electroshock therapy and lobotomies were treatments for mental disorders.
Nutritional science is barely a science when it comes to empirical observation based studies... especially when the studies were funded by food companies. Most forms of saturated fat (there's many more than one type) are still seen as likely problems.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

Decisions are written for citizens to be able to understand. No law background needed.

How does one do their research for a pen purchase?

[dneal]

The internet has this weird function most programmers are familiar with, where you can search for things and get an answer almost instantaneously. You have to read though, but then you’ll be informed.

click here (https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=stare+decicis)

[dneal]

The link will remain, so you can inform yourself again, any time you like.

[dneal]

Cholesterol levels and heart disease were correlated for decades. The famous Framingham study. The American Heart Association.

Wanna guess what a meta analysis of all the studies recently concluded?

Experts once said trans fats were healthy, and eggs were not. What’s today’s consensus? Want more? Electroshock therapy and lobotomies were treatments for mental disorders.
Nutritional science is barely a science when it comes to empirical observation based studies... especially when the studies were funded by food companies. Most forms of saturated fat (there's many more than one type) are still seen as likely problems.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Are you formally educated in nutrition or are you a nutritionist? A biologist? Doctor?

You’re demonstrating my point. You can have an informed opinion without being an “expert”.

[Lloyd]

Cholesterol levels and heart disease were correlated for decades. The famous Framingham study. The American Heart Association.

Wanna guess what a meta analysis of all the studies recently concluded?

Experts once said trans fats were healthy, and eggs were not. What’s today’s consensus? Want more? Electroshock therapy and lobotomies were treatments for mental disorders.
Nutritional science is barely a science when it comes to empirical observation based studies... especially when the studies were funded by food companies. Most forms of saturated fat (there's many more than one type) are still seen as likely problems.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Are you formally educated in nutrition or are you a nutritionist? A biologist? Doctor?

You’re demonstrating my point. You can have an informed opinion without being an “expert”.
I read a lot on nutrition over many years and I'm married to a nurse practitioner. As your post demonstrates and even mentions, these hypotheses aren't the results of anything more than statistics based on subject stated diets and health reporting. This is far from most approaches in the science to acquiring knowledge.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

I am going to bow out of the discussions in this corner of FPGeeks. Mainly because I feel out of my depth. Have fun!
Why not skim them and, when you feel appropriate, ask questions or add to the conversation?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[dneal]

Cholesterol levels and heart disease were correlated for decades. The famous Framingham study. The American Heart Association.

Wanna guess what a meta analysis of all the studies recently concluded?

Experts once said trans fats were healthy, and eggs were not. What’s today’s consensus? Want more? Electroshock therapy and lobotomies were treatments for mental disorders.
Nutritional science is barely a science when it comes to empirical observation based studies... especially when the studies were funded by food companies. Most forms of saturated fat (there's many more than one type) are still seen as likely problems.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Are you formally educated in nutrition or are you a nutritionist? A biologist? Doctor?

You’re demonstrating my point. You can have an informed opinion without being an “expert”.
I read a lot on nutrition over many years and I'm married to a nurse practitioner. As your post demonstrates and even mentions, these hypotheses aren't the results of anything more than statistics based on subject stated diets and health reporting. This is far from most approaches in the science to acquiring knowledge.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

We aren't trying to cure cancer or solve the mysteries of the universe. Is the notion of generally informing oneself on a topic really that hard to understand?

[Chuck Naill]

I feel strongly both ways…..lol!

[Bold2013]

Cholesterol levels and heart disease were correlated for decades. The famous Framingham study. The American Heart Association.

Wanna guess what a meta analysis of all the studies recently concluded?

Experts once said trans fats were healthy, and eggs were not. What’s today’s consensus? Want more? Electroshock therapy and lobotomies were treatments for mental disorders.
Nutritional science is barely a science when it comes to empirical observation based studies... especially when the studies were funded by food companies. Most forms of saturated fat (there's many more than one type) are still seen as likely problems.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Are you formally educated in nutrition or are you a nutritionist? A biologist? Doctor?

You’re demonstrating my point. You can have an informed opinion without being an “expert”.

Apparently Doctor’s, with professional experience with Covid, opinions don’t count if they don’t follow the progressive narrative…

[Chip]

Apparently Doctor’s, with professional experience with Covid, opinions don’t count if they don’t follow the progressive narrative…

Are you a fan of Scott Atlas? He advised Trump, and they are responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths.

[Lloyd]

Cholesterol levels and heart disease were correlated for decades. The famous Framingham study. The American Heart Association.

Wanna guess what a meta analysis of all the studies recently concluded?

Experts once said trans fats were healthy, and eggs were not. What’s today’s consensus? Want more? Electroshock therapy and lobotomies were treatments for mental disorders.
Nutritional science is barely a science when it comes to empirical observation based studies... especially when the studies were funded by food companies. Most forms of saturated fat (there's many more than one type) are still seen as likely problems.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Are you formally educated in nutrition or are you a nutritionist? A biologist? Doctor?

You’re demonstrating my point. You can have an informed opinion without being an “expert”.

Apparently Doctor’s, with professional experience with Covid, opinions don’t count if they don’t follow the progressive narrative…
Define professional experience with COVID, please. Even Trump endorsed Fauci and Birx... until he didn't like their COVID statements' potential negative impact on Trump's fandom.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[ethernautrix]

Being informed is a journey. Those who mistake it for a destination are the ones who make discussions so difficult.

She blurted. Could be wrong. Ya know.

[Bold2013]

Cholesterol levels and heart disease were correlated for decades. The famous Framingham study. The American Heart Association.

Wanna guess what a meta analysis of all the studies recently concluded?

Experts once said trans fats were healthy, and eggs were not. What’s today’s consensus? Want more? Electroshock therapy and lobotomies were treatments for mental disorders.
Nutritional science is barely a science when it comes to empirical observation based studies... especially when the studies were funded by food companies. Most forms of saturated fat (there's many more than one type) are still seen as likely problems.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Are you formally educated in nutrition or are you a nutritionist? A biologist? Doctor?

You’re demonstrating my point. You can have an informed opinion without being an “expert”.

Apparently Doctor’s, with professional experience with Covid, opinions don’t count if they don’t follow the progressive narrative…
Define professional experience with COVID, please. Even Trump endorsed Fauci and Birx... until he didn't like their COVID statements' potential negative impact on Trump's fandom.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

I work in a large quaternary care hospital. I am mostly involved in diagnosis (expected/incidental/screening), monitoring for acute complications (bleeds, clots, secondary infections), evaluations after the initial disease course (destroyed lungs, ‘long Covid’ brain scans), and even perform the rare procedure on these patients.

I have seen each wave firsthand (and before the TV/local health department). I have seen the differences between the variants.

I have been to international conferences and heard others physicians experiences through lectures.

[Chuck Naill]

i


Cholesterol levels and heart disease were correlated for decades. The famous Framingham study. The American Heart Association.

Wanna guess what a meta analysis of all the studies recently concluded?

Experts once said trans fats were healthy, and eggs were not. What’s today’s consensus? Want more? Electroshock therapy and lobotomies were treatments for mental disorders.
Nutritional science is barely a science when it comes to empirical observation based studies... especially when the studies were funded by food companies. Most forms of saturated fat (there's many more than one type) are still seen as likely problems.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Are you formally educated in nutrition or are you a nutritionist? A biologist? Doctor?

You’re demonstrating my point. You can have an informed opinion without being an “expert”.

Apparently Doctor’s, with professional experience with Covid, opinions don’t count if they don’t follow the progressive narrative…

It’s was always referred to as an evidenced based narrative when I discussed matters of treatment with medical professionals. I guess times have changed.

[Chuck Naill]

Michael T. Osterholm helped me early on understand the nature of the virus and why is it referred to as an aerosolized virus. Masking and distance made sense.

[Chip]

I work in a large quaternary care hospital. I am mostly involved in diagnosis (expected/incidental/screening), monitoring for acute complications (bleeds, clots, secondary infections), evaluations after the initial disease course (destroyed lungs, ‘long Covid’ brain scans), and even perform the rare procedure on these patients.

I have seen each wave firsthand (and before the TV/local health department). I have seen the differences between the variants.

I have been to international conferences and heard others physicians experiences through lectures.

So– do you wear a surgical mask when treating potentially infectious conditions? Have you been vaccinated against common diseases?

Do you wash your hands before treating a patient?

Or just pray?

[Chuck Naill]

I work in a large quaternary care hospital. I am mostly involved in diagnosis (expected/incidental/screening), monitoring for acute complications (bleeds, clots, secondary infections), evaluations after the initial disease course (destroyed lungs, ‘long Covid’ brain scans), and even perform the rare procedure on these patients.

I have seen each wave firsthand (and before the TV/local health department). I have seen the differences between the variants.

I have been to international conferences and heard others physicians experiences through lectures.

So– do you wear a surgical mask when treating potentially infectious conditions? Have you been vaccinated against common diseases?

Do you wash your hands before treating a patient?

Or just pray?

He has no choice and I suspect employees are expected to have received all available vaccines and have titer levels checked on childhood vaccines. Infectious control in hospitals is serious business.

[TFarnon]

I work in a large quaternary care hospital. I am mostly involved in diagnosis (expected/incidental/screening), monitoring for acute complications (bleeds, clots, secondary infections), evaluations after the initial disease course (destroyed lungs, ‘long Covid’ brain scans), and even perform the rare procedure on these patients.

I have seen each wave firsthand (and before the TV/local health department). I have seen the differences between the variants.

I have been to international conferences and heard others physicians experiences through lectures.

So– do you wear a surgical mask when treating potentially infectious conditions? Have you been vaccinated against common diseases?

Do you wash your hands before treating a patient?

Or just pray?

He has no choice and I suspect employees are expected to have received all available vaccines and have titer levels checked on childhood vaccines. Infectious control in hospitals is serious business.

Infectious disease control may be serious business in hospitals, but it's far from serious enough. It varies widely from hospital to hospital. One of my colleagues would never have known he had COVID if the other hospital where he works (it's a thing in my field--there simply aren't enough of us to go around and the pay is good) didn't test daily. And now we suspect that a different coworker is down (symptomatic) with the latest COVID variant. No word yet. But back to infectious disease: hand sanitation still isn't what it should be at any of the local hospitals or other health care facilities. There are entirely too many dicknoses running around even in my workplace. We don't have enough biosafety cabinets. Aerosol prevention isn't even available for most of our centrifuges.

None of that is to say that masking, hand hygiene and vaccination aren't all good and prudent things to do.