Contraception

[Chuck Naill]

Last week a mother of three boys said having access to abortion was essential. It caused me to wonder why see would risk a pregnancy.

If married, the man could or could consider a vasectomy.

Contraceptives should or could be a paid medical benefit .

However, infrequent sex was a reason for not using a contraceptive in this article.
https://www.guttmacher.org/report/unmet-need-for-contraception-in-developing-countries

[TSherbs]

Last week a mother of three boys said having access to abortion was essential. It caused me to wonder why see would risk a pregnancy.


Oh come on, Chuck. People of all stripes "risk pregnancy" for the same reason (s) that they have for tens of thousands of years.



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[Chuck Naill]

Okay, anyone else?

[Chuck Naill]

Just read, “One day I hope to become a mother. But for now I have sex just because I like it. Sex is fun.”

[Chuck Naill]

So, right now I am smoking cigarettes. Someday I hope not to die from lung ca. or , I find driving drunk a kick. Someday I hope not to get a DUI.

[Chuck Naill]

So, right now I am smoking cigarettes. Someday I hope not to die from lung ca. or , I find driving drunk a kick. Someday I hope not to get a DUI.

Or, right now I love to order stuff from eBay. Someday I hope to be out of debt.

Or, I love not caring if the Suby has oil. Someday I hope to not have to replace my engine.

[TSherbs]

So, you're going to pick on this married woman for her pregnancy?

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[TSherbs]

How about we try restricting all sex to only when a woman signals that she is willing to be pregnant.



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[Chuck Naill]

Actions have consequences, Ted. I assumed a man of retirement age would have understood. Perhaps not.

[Chuck Naill]

So, if your students don’t study for the final, they are not at fault for failing?

[TSherbs]

Actions have consequences, Ted. I assumed a man of retirement age would have understood. Perhaps not.No shit, actions have consequences. But why are you picking on the women? How about we castrate every male who gets a woman pregnant when she would rather not be pregnant?

Why did you start this thread? What is your point?

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[Chuck Naill]

Really Ted?? You’re an educator and you don’t take the time to read? Shit fire bro!!

There was a commercial with the verbiage, “ I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never let you forget you’re a man”.

I’m not picking on anyone. Are you posting drunk again?

[TSherbs]

You're being a dick today

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[Chuck Naill]

Same as you. I realize this is uncomfortable for your position. I’ll give you a pass.

[Chuck Naill]

I’ve noticed your vocabulary decreases the closer someone gets to your core beliefs.

[TSherbs]

Why don't you answer the question: why did you start this thread?

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[Chuck Naill]

Either a vasectomy or female contraception would eliminate the need for aborting human life.

While too much information, I got a vasectomy decades ago because of my spouses health concerns.

So, preventing pregnancy seems to be the most obvious and safe option. I am surprised it’s not more utilized.

[Chuck Naill]

I didn’t start in order to be a “dick”.

[TSherbs]

Either a vasectomy or female contraception would eliminate the need for aborting human life.

While too much information, I got a vasectomy decades ago because of my spouses health concerns.

So, preventing pregnancy seems to be the most obvious and safe option. I am surprised it’s not more utilized.

Contraception IS utilized, Chuck. Millions and millions of times a day all over the world. And also by MEN.

You read one article about a few married women, and then you busted on them for not being smarter about becoming pregnant.

I'm going to make my point plain: pregnancy is the the number one crusher of dreams and ambition and adult growth for women around the world. And they bear that burden disproportionate to men, who now abandon them when pregnant at higher rates than ever (not that it was ever "good"). Pregnancy and its complications are the number one health threat to women's bodies under the age of 40 and has the most profound effect on altering a damaging a woman's body. Freedom for women is tied to four things in the modern era: educational access, marital equality, legal equality (for business and finance), and reproductive control. Women (and the rest of society) must fight for all four of these pillars of female freedom because NONE of them have been traditionally granted them in the history of western society. NONE OF THEM. And some of them have been won only VERY RECENTLY in cultural terms. Some men want to take these gains back and pull out some of these pillars. Some men won't even acknowledge that these things are true nor that if true that they carry any continuing legacy today. But most women won't fucking say that. And even fewer will say it now that the SC has said (in its majority opinion) that Roe had no basis in law or cultural history prior. Well, no fucking shit. The litigants were trying to overturn centuries of legal confinement of women to pregnancies that they did not want (one of those pillars).

They won. And for 50 years that victory stood and the fourth pillar of female independence from the disproportionate burden of pregnancy grew stronger.

And now the foundation under that pillar has been removed. And women are now less free, less independent, and the patriarchal tradition of America has begun to re-tie women with the chains of pregnancy.

So don't blame married women for getting pregnant. That's not the problem.

[Lloyd]

How about we castrate every male who gets a woman pregnant when she would rather not be pregnant?



Unless I missed something in school, I think you'd be a bit too late.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

How about we castrate every male who gets a woman pregnant when she would rather not be pregnant?



Unless I missed something in school, I think you'd be a bit too late.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

ha!

But when has lack of efficacy ever prevented us from exacting cruel punishments??

[Lloyd]

How about we castrate every male who gets a woman pregnant when she would rather not be pregnant?



Unless I missed something in school, I think you'd be a bit too late.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

ha!

But when has lack of efficacy ever prevented us from exacting cruel punishments??
This reminds me of this joke

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.

Then I realised that the Lord doesn’t work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me."

Emo*Philips



Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

Either a vasectomy or female contraception would eliminate the need for aborting human life.

While too much information, I got a vasectomy decades ago because of my spouses health concerns.

So, preventing pregnancy seems to be the most obvious and safe option. I am surprised it’s not more utilized.

Contraception IS utilized, Chuck. Millions and millions of times a day all over the world. And also by MEN.

You read one article about a few married women, and then you busted on them for not being smarter about becoming pregnant.

I'm going to make my point plain: pregnancy is the the number one crusher of dreams and ambition and adult growth for women around the world. And they bear that burden disproportionate to men, who now abandon them when pregnant at higher rates than ever (not that it was ever "good"). Pregnancy and its complications are the number one health threat to women's bodies under the age of 40 and has the most profound effect on altering a damaging a woman's body. Freedom for women is tied to four things in the modern era: educational access, marital equality, legal equality (for business and finance), and reproductive control. Women (and the rest of society) must fight for all four of these pillars of female freedom because NONE of them have been traditionally granted them in the history of western society. NONE OF THEM. And some of them have been won only VERY RECENTLY in cultural terms. Some men want to take these gains back and pull out some of these pillars. Some men won't even acknowledge that these things are true nor that if true that they carry any continuing legacy today. But most women won't fucking say that. And even fewer will say it now that the SC has said (in its majority opinion) that Roe had no basis in law or cultural history prior. Well, no fucking shit. The litigants were trying to overturn centuries of legal confinement of women to pregnancies that they did not want (one of those pillars).

They won. And for 50 years that victory stood and the fourth pillar of female independence from the disproportionate burden of pregnancy grew stronger.

And now the foundation under that pillar has been removed. And women are now less free, less independent, and the patriarchal tradition of America has begun to re-tie women with the chains of pregnancy.

So don't blame married women for getting pregnant. That's not the problem.

I find it sad that your feel a baby is the “crusher” of dreams.

[Lloyd]

Do people here realize that most forms of contraception aren't 100%? People don't want to substitute contraception with abortion. What if contraception fails and you're on a med that frequently leads to fetuses with defects?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

If married, getting a vasectomy is 100% effective.

[Lloyd]

If married, getting a vasectomy is 100% effective.
They're not effective if you're single, widowed, or divorced?
Actually, it takes up to a year to reach full efficacy - https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/vasectomy/conditioninfo/effective

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

Contraception IS utilized, Chuck. Millions and millions of times a day all over the world. And also by MEN.

You read one article about a few married women, and then you busted on them for not being smarter about becoming pregnant.

I'm going to make my point plain: pregnancy is the the number one crusher of dreams and ambition and adult growth for women around the world. And they bear that burden disproportionate to men, who now abandon them when pregnant at higher rates than ever (not that it was ever "good"). Pregnancy and its complications are the number one health threat to women's bodies under the age of 40 and has the most profound effect on altering a damaging a woman's body. Freedom for women is tied to four things in the modern era: educational access, marital equality, legal equality (for business and finance), and reproductive control. Women (and the rest of society) must fight for all four of these pillars of female freedom because NONE of them have been traditionally granted them in the history of western society. NONE OF THEM. And some of them have been won only VERY RECENTLY in cultural terms. Some men want to take these gains back and pull out some of these pillars. Some men won't even acknowledge that these things are true nor that if true that they carry any continuing legacy today. But most women won't fucking say that. And even fewer will say it now that the SC has said (in its majority opinion) that Roe had no basis in law or cultural history prior. Well, no fucking shit. The litigants were trying to overturn centuries of legal confinement of women to pregnancies that they did not want (one of those pillars).

They won. And for 50 years that victory stood and the fourth pillar of female independence from the disproportionate burden of pregnancy grew stronger.

And now the foundation under that pillar has been removed. And women are now less free, less independent, and the patriarchal tradition of America has begun to re-tie women with the chains of pregnancy.

So don't blame married women for getting pregnant. That's not the problem.

I find it sad that your feel a baby is the “crusher” of dreams.

You need to read some more about the history of women in western society (and written by women).

You do understand, right, that it was only in the last century that the courts began recognizing rape between husband and wife? Just think how many women were forced to carry to term the babies that their husbands forced on them against their will (rape). Let's count how many children were forced on men via rape by their wives ...um ...exactly zero. Never ever in ten thousand years.

It's not "sad" that *I* feel this way. It's sad that Western society for centuries has denied women so much. For some reason you seem to have trouble extending your empathy to the women.



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[Lloyd]

From BBC -
US woman denied termination in Malta: 'I was terrified'

This woman nearly died after her fetus became unviable at 16 weeks despite it still having a beating heart, and she couldn't get an abortion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61959825

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

If married, getting a vasectomy is 100% effective.
Almost

Why a Vasectomy Might Fail

A vasectomy can fail if the doctor misses the vas deferens during the procedure. In rare cases, the tube can regrow. If this does occur, the vas deferens is usually much smaller than it was before.

Sometimes, sperm can make their way from one cut end of the vas deferens to the other. This is most common in the first three months after the procedure. That’s why your doctor will tell you to avoid having unprotected sex until you get confirmation that your semen is free of sperm.

If your doctor finds sperm in repeat tests of your semen, you may need to have a second procedure.*Less than 1 percent*of vasectomies need to be repeated.


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

Almost

Why a Vasectomy Might Fail

A vasectomy can fail if the doctor misses the vas deferens during the procedure. In rare cases, the tube can regrow. If this does occur, the vas deferens is usually much smaller than it was before.

Sometimes, sperm can make their way from one cut end of the vas deferens to the other. This is most common in the first three months after the procedure. That’s why your doctor will tell you to avoid having unprotected sex until you get confirmation that your semen is free of sperm.

If your doctor finds sperm in repeat tests of your semen, you may need to have a second procedure.*Less than 1 percent*of vasectomies need to be repeated.


Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/vasectomy/how-effective-vasectomy

[Bold2013]

Do people here realize that most forms of contraception aren't 100%? People don't want to substitute contraception with abortion. What if contraception fails and you're on a med that frequently leads to fetuses with defects?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

My wife got pregnant with accutane still in her system (extremely teratogenic)…. Maybe explains why my 3 year old is such a rascal!

[Chuck Naill]

Do people here realize that most forms of contraception aren't 100%? People don't want to substitute contraception with abortion. What if contraception fails and you're on a med that frequently leads to fetuses with defects?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

My wife got pregnant with accutane still in her system (extremely teratogenic)…. Maybe explains why my 3 year old is such a rascal!

So, why weren’t you paying attention and not getting her pregnant or using birth control, or Is it her only her responsibility?

[Lloyd]

From Rheumatologist News-
"No more ‘escape hatch’: Post Roe, new worries about meds linked to birth defects"

https://www.mdedge.com/rheumatology/article/255888/lupus-connective-tissue-diseases/no-more-escape-hatch-post-roe-new?ecd=WNL_eve_220701_mdedge

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

"South Dakota governor defends state's abortion 'trigger' ban when asked if 10-year-old should be forced to give birth"
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/03/politics/kristi-noem-south-dakota-abortion-trigger-ban/index.html

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Bold2013]

"South Dakota governor defends state's abortion 'trigger' ban when asked if 10-year-old should be forced to give birth"
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/03/politics/kristi-noem-south-dakota-abortion-trigger-ban/index.html

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

Sad case.

[Niner]

Why don't we just put a Band-Aid on a woman's abdomen if she's pregnant but doesn't wish to be? That's how we as a society address our other problems. Why should pregnancy be different?

[Niner]

Okay, we don't address all of society's problems by putting Band-Aids on women's abdomens. I admit it.

[Lloyd]

Okay, we don't address all of society's problems by putting Band-Aids on women's abdomens. I admit it.
The WOKE movement ended the ability to apply a bandaid to a woman's abdomen.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Bold2013]

Okay, we don't address all of society's problems by putting Band-Aids on women's abdomens. I admit it.
The WOKE movement ended the ability to apply a bandaid to a woman's abdomen.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

How so?

[Lloyd]

Okay, we don't address all of society's problems by putting Band-Aids on women's abdomens. I admit it.
The WOKE movement ended the ability to apply a bandaid to a woman's abdomen.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

How so?
It was joke. It's not "nice" to look at, nor touch to apply a bandaid to a woman's abdomen.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

In cultures where patriarchy and male primogeniture are the rule, women are forced to endure repeated (often unwanted) pregnancies in a struggle to produce a male heir.

This isn't just a third-world issue. Look up Henry VIII. Or watch The Crown.

[Bold2013]

My wife covered her belly bottom with a bandaid while pregnant so it didn’t poke out so much.

[Chip]

My wife covered her belly bottom with a bandaid while pregnant so it didn’t poke out so much.

Her belly or her bottom? Or both?

(Repeated question: do you look at what you've typed before posting?)

[TFarnon]

Reeling this back in to contraception--I believe I posted fairly extensively about contraception in the Dobbs Decision thread. If not, on Reddit somewhere...I'm not in the mood to go post-stalk myself to find it, and I'm definitely not in the mood to type it all again (all off the top of my head, because I'm actually interested in the physiology and stuff like that). The takeaway from it was that there isn't a 100 percent reliable method for women other than a hysterectomy. A hysterectomy is major, major surgery, and not to be taken lightly. Ovariectomy would accomplish the same thing except that it's not nearly as easy as it sounds. Imagine trying to find two small grapes in an adult human's abdominal cavity. Sure, you know about where they should be, but if any of you have ever done any kind of dissection, you know that it's not as easy as the diagrams would indicate. It's just not.

Permanent surgical options for women aside, that leaves barrier devices, which are inherently error-prone due to there being humans involved; IUDs, which have their own issues; and pharmacological interventions. Those all have their own risks and benefits, and they all have nonzero failure rates.

Male vasectomies aren't 100% foolproof, either. Never mind that having assisted on and performed (one) feline neuter procedure, and my cheerful willingness to try almost anything once if the situation demands, I can definitely see the possible pitfalls involved in the procedure.

It may be satisfying to announce that the solution to abortion is to make contraception universally and easily available, but reality isn't nearly so kind. Universal, easy access to contraception would probably reduce abortion rates, but it wouldn't eliminate a need for the procedure in cases like acephaly or fetal demise. It wouldn't eliminate the need for the procedure in cases of sexual assault and coercive incest. It wouldn't eliminate the need for the procedure in those instances where contraceptives failed despite both partners' best efforts.

And having to go from dozing in front of my monitor because suddenly I have the luxury of a lull to full speed asses and elbows putting together a massive transfusion pack, I know that pregnancy and childbirth have very real and very substantial risks. A woman shouldn't be compelled to take those risks if she chooses not to, any more than she should be compelled to go skydiving or driving drunk.

[Niner]

Sometimes it's right to force an unwilling person out of an aircraft while in flight.

[Bold2013]

Lost me with comparing pregnancy/birth to sky diving and driving drunk.

[Lloyd]

Uh oh.... here's an interesting direction on this

Her Ex-Husband Is Suing A Clinic Over The Abortion She Had Four Years Ago
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ex-husband-suing-clinic-abortion-roe-arizona

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

Interesting, how?

[Lloyd]

Interesting, how?
If you didn't read the article, it opens with the following

Nearly four years after a woman ended an unwanted pregnancy with abortion pills obtained at a Phoenix clinic, she finds herself mired in an ongoing lawsuit over that decision.

A judge allowed the woman’s ex-husband to establish an estate for the embryo, which had been aborted in its seventh week of development. The ex-husband filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the clinic and its doctors in 2020, alleging that physicians failed to obtain proper*informed consent*from the woman as required by Arizona law.

Across the U.S., people have sued for negligence in the death of a fetus or embryo in cases where a pregnant person has been killed in a car crash or a pregnancy was lost because of alleged wrongdoing by a physician. But a court action claiming the wrongful death of an aborted embryo or fetus is a more novel strategy, legal experts said.

The experts said this rare tactic could become more common, as anti-abortion groups have signaled their desire to further limit reproductive rights following the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in*Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, which overturned*Roe v. Wade. The Arizona lawsuit and others that may follow could also be an attempt to discourage and intimidate providers and harass plaintiffs’ former romantic partners, experts said.

Lucinda Finley, a law professor at the University at Buffalo who specializes in tort law and reproductive rights, said the Arizona case is a “harbinger of things to come” and called it “troubling for the future.”


So, even abortions that have happened in the past, and abortions in states where they're currently legal, may become legal targets.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

.... . The Arizona lawsuit and others that may follow could also be an attempt to discourage and intimidate providers and harass plaintiffs’ former romantic partners, experts said.

Lucinda Finley, a law professor at the University at Buffalo who specializes in tort law and reproductive rights, said the Arizona case is a “harbinger of things to come” and called it “troubling for the future.”


Yep

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[Chip]

I looked at it and found it not so much interesting as nasty, vindictive, and wrong.

He obviously wants more control over his wife than she's willng to grant.

[TSherbs]

I looked at it and found it not so much interesting as nasty, vindictive, and wrong.

He obviously wants more control over his wife than she's willng to grant.Ex-wife now, I think. At least she's not married to that alleged asshole any more.

When did he set up that "estate" in an embryo? WTF? Was the dude dying at the time and just eager to get the paperwork done? Or, worse.

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[Lloyd]

After the cells ceased to be active. That's a large part of the issue.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

After the cells ceased to be active.

Yeah, four years later!

He took her to the three appointments.

The details in the article suggest that he was a controlling, abusive bastard.

Whining, vindictive shit. "I don't want the money, I just want to make sure that this doesn't happen to other husbands." What, have a spouse fully empowered to make her own medical decisions, even about the status of her womb?

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[TSherbs]

When women say that men (some, many?) want to control women's bodies via the historically and traditionally patriarchal system of just and cultural expectations, they aren't wrong. Evidence is all around us.

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[Chuck Naill]

Vasectomy is an excellent option. It’s what I would recommend and it’s effective because on post surgicall follow up a semen sample is tested.

[TFarnon]

Two sources of failure immediately come to mind: The first is the patient who doesn't go for follow-up to check that the vasectomy did, in fact, render him sterile; and any number of laboratory issues from a specimen that sat too long at the wrong temperature after collection to an inexperienced tech examining the specimen. Human error makes almost nothing foolproof.

[Chuck Naill]

If you follow the urologist’s instructions…….

Don’t be misinformed!!!

[TFarnon]

If you follow the urologist’s instructions…….

Don’t be misinformed!!!

Seriously? If you aren't aware how awful American humans are at following instructions, you are the one who is misinformed.

[Chuck Naill]

If you follow the urologist’s instructions…….

Don’t be misinformed!!!

Seriously? If you aren't aware how awful American humans are at following instructions, you are the one who is misinformed.

You are the one suggesting the procedure doesn't work. Bringing up noncompliance is a form of "what-about-this" and has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a vasectomy. It is like saying medications don't work because you failed to take them.

[TSherbs]

Chuck, a vasectomy is a highly effective (and, mostly, permanent) form of surgical contraception for those men who chose to go that route. It is not what most men choose, however, and of course no women choose it. But it works very well for those men interested in "permanent" sterility.

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[Chuck Naill]

Chuck, a vasectomy is a highly effective (and, mostly, permanent) form of surgical contraception for those men who chose to go that route. It is not what most men choose, however, and of course no women choose it. But it works very well for those men interested in "permanent" sterility.

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Exactly.

[Chip]

For those concerned with the historical roots of the recent decision by the Catholic majority on the Supreme Court, I recommend looking up the Papal Bull by Innocent (hah!) VIII, Summis desiderantes.

Its main purpose was to give jurisdictional authority to two inquisitors, Heinrich Kramer and Jacob Sprenger, to prosecute witches in various parts of Germany. These two German Dominicans, both theologians, had been encountering resistance to their inquisition from local secular authorities, who also claimed jurisdiction over witchcraft. The bull marks a significant change in the definition of the crime of witchcraft, which it defined exclusively in terms of maleficia, especially the impeding of fertility.

Seems there's a sort of uber-Originalism afoot.

Welcome to the Inquisition v. 2.0.

[TSherbs]

That document also ascribes erectile dysfunction (and/or lack of desire) to the work of the devil. Lord knows it couldn't have a more rational explanation.

I wonder if Brett Kavanaugh thinks the devil was at work in him at certain high school drinking parties.

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[Chip]

I wonder if Brett Kavanaugh thinks the devil was at work in him at certain high school drinking parties.

Nope. He thinks the devil inspired those who opposed his nomination.

Alito told him so.

[Lloyd]

A commentary from Medscape


COMMENTARY

Legal Abortion Is a Matter of Public Health
Caroline Depuydt, MD

DISCLOSURES July 27, 2022
BRUSSELS — On June 24, the US Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, a decision that was issued in 1973. From now on, each state will be able to choose the laws that it wants to put in place regarding abortion. Several states have already decided to ban abortion altogether. As a physician, but also as a woman, I am stunned to see this opposition to a right that, in my opinion, is also a matter of public health.

International Data
In Belgium, voluntary termination of pregnancy (VTP) has been allowed since 1990. Except in the case of a serious medical problem, the abortion must take place before the end of the 12th week after conception. So, 14 weeks from the last menstrual period (LMP).

Beyond that timeframe, a VTP can be performed only when the continuation of the pregnancy endangers the health of the woman or when it is certain that the unborn child will be affected by a condition of particular gravity and recognized as incurable at the time of diagnosis. This is referred to as termination for medical reasons (TFMR).

First Observation
The annual number of VTPs did not climb following legalization. For the past 20 years in Belgium, that number has remained stable, hovering around 19,000. Abortion continues to be an action — neither trivialized nor minimized — that is difficult for any woman to take, no matter what her reason.

Second Observation
Over 60% of women who had an abortion were using a form of contraception. So, while the burden of contraception still rests almost exclusively on the woman, it cannot be said that those who had a VTP did not use some method of birth control.

Even more important, legal abortions have very few complications, either physical or psychological. Studies show that pregnancy itself carries a higher risk for psychopathological manifestations than a VTP. These VTPs are safe, and women quickly recover from them. The most sensitive time seems to be the period before the abortion, and it's at this stage that most of the psychological and psychopathological manifestations accumulate. The majority of women facing a VTP experience feelings of relief, and only a minority develop psychological problems, usually when there is already a history of mental disorder. The literature shows that the levels of anxiety and depression decrease in the month following the abortion. Being denied a VTP, on the other hand, significantly increases the woman's risk of developing a mental disorder.

Should a VTP be denied, a woman, if she determines that she doesn't have any other choice, may then end up turning to a back-alley abortion. The methods used for this are medieval, dangerous, and may not prove successful — things like using chemicals, piercing the amniotic sac with a needle or sharp object (the famous coat hanger), eating or drinking abortifacient herbs, taking large quantities of medication, punching the stomach, falling down stairs, and engaging in intense physical exercise.

From there, these risky methods inevitably lead to numerous complications: incomplete abortions, infections, septicemia, breakthrough bleeding, subsequent sterility, laceration of the uterine wall, or death.

Around one third of women who undergo risky abortions develop complications, while less than half receive care.
The World Health Organization estimates that back-alley abortions represent 49% of abortions worldwide. It puts the number of illegal abortions performed each year at 20 million.

Each year, around 60,000 women worldwide die as a result of an unsafe VTP. That's one woman every 9 minutes. And odds are that these figures are underestimated.

Making the decision to resort to a VTP is always difficult. Ideally, you should be able to discuss it with your partner, when there is one, and with your close friends and family, to have someone go with you as support, to weigh the pros and cons, and to make a choice in line with your convictions and your conscience. But first and foremost, the law must guarantee the right to be able to ask oneself this question, because guaranteeing this right is also guaranteeing the health and safety of women, and that is why this remains a public health imperative.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TFarnon]

I saw an interesting explanation of why Republicans are so anti-abortion. Republicans are lizard people. As lizard people, they consider babies a delicacy like caviar or truffles. Abortion was reducing the number of babies available for eating. Hence the revocation of Roe v. Wade.

[Chip]

In February 2011, on the Opie and Anthony radio show, the comedian Louis C.K. jokingly asked former U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld a number of times if he and Dick Cheney were lizard people who enjoyed the taste of human flesh. Amused by Rumsfeld's refusal to directly answer the question, C.K. suggested it as a possible admission of guilt. He went on to further muse that perhaps those who are lizard people cannot lie about it; when asked if they are lizards, they either have to avoid answering the question or say yes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH_34tqxAjA

[Chuck Naill]

Contraception has worked for some here, a good thing.

[TSherbs]

Here come the crazy bills. Not surprised to see this one come out of Indiana. Let's see, in ten years, how many female college graduates they can hold on to in their state. Maine has a problem holding onto its young college graduates, too, but for different reasons.

The Balkanization of America continues.

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-health-indiana-indianapolis-legislature-3be0e2a10d9de57b16e2968c5473681a

[Bold2013]

Here come the crazy bills. Not surprised to see this one come out of Indiana. Let's see, in ten years, how many female college graduates they can hold on to in their state. Maine has a problem holding onto its young college graduates, too, but for different reasons.

The Balkanization of America continues.

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-health-indiana-indianapolis-legislature-3be0e2a10d9de57b16e2968c5473681a

Agreed.

[Lloyd]

The article isn't there anymore

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

The article isn't there anymore

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect[emoji769]The link works for me

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Lloyd]

The article isn't there anymore

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect[emoji769]The link works for me

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Strange... I've tried 3 different apps and no luck.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[TSherbs]

The article isn't there anymore

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect[emoji769]The link works for me

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Strange... I've tried 3 different apps and no luck.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™


INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Indiana state senators narrowly passed a near-total abortion ban Saturday during a rare weekend session, sending the bill to the House after a contentious week of arguments over whether to allow exceptions for rape and incest.

The Republican-controlled Senate voted 26-20 after about three hours of debate, passing the bill with the minimum 26 votes needed to send it on to the House, which Republicans also control.

The bill would prohibit abortions from the time a fertilized egg implants in a uterus. Exceptions would be allowed in cases of rape and incest, but a patient seeking an abortion for either reason would have to sign a notarized affidavit attesting to the attack.

Indiana is one of the first Republican-controlled states to debate tighter abortion laws since the U.S. Supreme Court last month overturned the precedent establishing a national right to an abortion.

But the GOP splintered after the rape and incest exceptions remained in the bill Thursday when an amendment failed that would have stripped out those exceptions.

Ten Republican senators voted against the legislation Saturday, including a handful who support abortion rights.

One of them, Republican Sen. Vaneta Becker of Evansville, said the measure will interfere with women’s medical choices, their lives and free will by setting strict limits on abortion access in Indiana.

“Women deserve to have us protect their lives and free will. Senate Bill 1 destroys both. Shame on us for doing this,” she said, noting that only eight of Senate’s 50 members are women.

“We are considering dictating medical decisions with blinders and ignorant of the astounding, unintended consequences we are creating,” Becker warned, saying the Senate is “just making a mess.”

Republican Sen. Mike Young, whose amendment calling for no exceptions except for the life of the mother previously failed, said he voted against the bill not because he agrees with its opponents but because he has qualms with some aspects of the legislation he hopes are addressed.

Young said one provision that concerns him states that a doctor can perform an abortion if he believes a woman’s life is in danger but it doesn’t require the doctor to inform that woman that her life is in danger.

“She may never know the reasons why. I just think it’s important when a person makes the most important decision of their life they ought to know if their life is in danger, and what are the reasons why it’s in danger,” he said.

GOP Sen. Sue Glick of LaGrange, who authored the abortion bill, said during the debate she doesn’t expect the legislation approved by the Senate to be the final version the legislature passes. She called the Senate bill “an expression of where we believe the state of Indiana is right now.”

The legislation’s passage “is a huge step forward in protecting the life of the unborn children in our state,” Glick said in a statement after the bill’s approval.

“We have put together a bill that would not criminalize women and would protect the unborn whose voices have been silenced for the past 50 years under Roe v Wade,” she added.

Ten of the Senate’s 11 Democrats voted against the bill, with the 11th member absent for Saturday’s debate.

Democratic Sen. Tim Lanane of Anderson condemned the bill as a product of a male-dominated Legislature that’s poised to take away the control that pregnant women should have over their own bodies.

“This is the government, the male-dominated government of the state of Indiana, saying to the women of this state, you lose your choice,” he said. “We’ve told you — papa state, big state government — is going to tell you what you will do with your body. And I don’t think we’re ready for that.”

The bill now heads to the House, where proposed changes could come as soon as next week — the second week of lawmakers’ three-week special session. Lawmakers must adjourn their session by Aug. 14.

House Speaker Todd Huston on Friday declined to discuss specifics of the Senate bill. But he said he supports the rape and incest exceptions.

Gov. Eric Holcomb said earlier this summer that he had no “red lines” on what anti-abortion measures lawmakers might consider. But on July 12 Holcomb sidestepped taking a stance on how far the Republican-dominated Legislature should go in restricting abortions in its special session.

A national poll this month found an overwhelming majority of Americans believe their state should generally allow abortion in specific cases, including if a woman’s life is endangered or if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest. Few think abortion should always be illegal, according to The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll.

[Lloyd]

Scary.....

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chip]

https://i.imgur.com/cQ9xidY.jpg

[TSherbs]

https://i.imgur.com/cQ9xidY.jpgYeah, it's Mike Pence country

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Chip]

Republican theme song:

We did it before, and we can do it again,
We can do it again.

We did it before.

We'll do it again!

[Bold2013]

Liberal theme song:

Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about science book

[Chuck Naill]

Wrong it is:

I may not have time to do anything, but I care

I may not do anything, but I make sure you think I understand and care

I might be busy, but not too busy to care

I care because it makes me feel good

I care because it makes others think I am a nice person

I care because, I care enough to point out what others are not doing and that they don't care

I care no matter what happens. Just know I care.

[Lloyd]

Should we be celebrating that Georgia is making criminalizing abortion worthwhile?
"Abortion: Georgia offers tax credits for six-week-old embryos"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62401602?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

I have a hard time criminalizing abortion. I saw what occurred with criminalizing delivering a baby with Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome (NAS). While both are horribly cruel actions for the unborn, putting her in jail would not solve the problem. A national program for free contraception use and availability makes much better sense.

[Chip]

Liberal theme song

I have seldom read such a purely stupid post anywhere.

You should be ashamed.

Go read your bible.

[Lloyd]

Liberal theme song:

Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about science book
This reads more like a mantra from a disbeliever in Darwinism.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Lloyd]

Go read your bible.

More like read a different book than your Bible.

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect™

[Chuck Naill]

While the right and left fringe wrangle with each other, remember there is a majority somewhere in the middle that do not share your extremes.

[Bold2013]

Liberal theme song

I have seldom read such a purely stupid post anywhere.

You should be ashamed.

Go read your bible.

Wow. What a racist thing to say about Sam Cooke’s famous song.

[Chuck Naill]

😂😂
Wow!

[TSherbs]

Liberal theme song

I have seldom read such a purely stupid post anywhere.

You should be ashamed.

Go read your bible.

Wow. What a racist thing to say about Sam Cooke’s famous song.

You're the one who put his lyrics to a stupid political purpose, Bold.

[Chuck Naill]

Why do you think it’s “stupid”, Ted? If you’re only here to coddle and protect one member, you’re becoming less relevant. I’ve notice a shift

[TSherbs]

If you’re only here to coddle and protect one member...

Chuck, I don't understand your motivations at all. What the fuck does this mean? Chip needs no coddling or protecting. I have been here, commenting against racism, sexism, far-rightism, and other forms of lunacy (religious bigotry and self-righteousness) since 2013, years before either you or Chip were here. I have even vociferously objected to stupid shit said about you and to you, if you care to look back. I am not coddling or protecting anyone. I just comment on things I read. The day that I care whether you or anyone else thinks I am "relevant" will be a cold day in hell.

[TSherbs]

On why it is stupid to take someone's non-political lyrics from a love song and turn them into an attempt at a political smear: do I really have to explain that? If you'd like to disagree and point out the genious in it, go for it. Just make sure that you're not coddling Bold :rolleyes:

[Chuck Naill]

Being here longer counts for what?

If Bold wants to post something it’s not stupid or anymore stupid than what others post or you post.

Fuck is your new word. Are you in a contest to see how many times you can apply it to a post?

[Chuck Naill]

On why it is stupid to take someone's non-political lyrics from a love song and turn them into an attempt at a political smear: do I really have to explain that? If you'd like to disagree and point out the genious in it, go for it. Just make sure that you're not coddling Bold :rolleyes:

If this is your new standard, apply it to everyone, Ted regardless of religious or political persuasion.

[TSherbs]

Fuck is your new word. Are you in a contest to see how many times you can apply it to a post?

Yeah, that must be it. :facepalm:

What has put a burr up your ass, Chuck?

[Chip]

https://i.imgur.com/QhL5pvg.jpg

[TSherbs]

haha!

[Chuck Naill]

Fuck is your new word. Are you in a contest to see how many times you can apply it to a post?

Yeah, that must be it. :facepalm:

What has put a burr up your ass, Chuck?

What is ironic is that it is not me who appears to be pissed off all the time. Chill out Ted. Enjoy your retirement more.

[TSherbs]

dear lord, you kept needling me, Chuck. I am clearly just asking why you are doing it.

[Chuck Naill]

Like you needling me and “splaining” about contraception? I don’t think you appreciate we all have varying degrees of experience. One size do fit all. And, while your bright on your topics, you are lacking in others.

[TSherbs]

Like you needling me and “splaining” about contraception?

?? What are you referring to?

[Chuck Naill]

Are you on medication?

[Chip]

He's likely more subject to meditation than medication.

[Chuck Naill]

More requests for vasectomy procedures have occurred post Roe.