Statue Removal

[Chuck Naill]

I was listening to a conversation yesterday about the removal of a statue for Christopher Columbus in Chicago. One person said something about rewriting history or that history is subjective. Is this true in your opinion. I think I understand why statues are being removed, especially Confederate "heroes". I think I understand why Columbus is not a hero.

Thoughts?

[Chip]

Same reason you won't find statues of Genghis Khan in eastern Europe.

[BoBo Olson]

Washington and Jefferson should be removed from our coins.....and even if then slavery was legal in all 13 states. (Indians had Indian slaves even before the white man came.)
The black nations in Africa sold the slaves to the Whites and the Arabs....so don't go putting any blacks on the coins.
Same with Roosevelt from our dimes....his Dutch ancestors owned slaves before NY voted for slow emancipation....slave children were freed on birth after a certain date, not the born before, or their mother.

No human's on our coins or bills.... Don't matter, in 10-15 years no one will be allowed to use real money anyway.

[TSherbs]

Last Confed statue set to come down in Richmond:

Richmond Times-Dispatch: Richmond set to remove A.P. Hill statue as early as Monday.

https://richmond.com/news/local/richmond-set-to-remove-a-p-hill-statue-as-early-as-monday/article_67d2cd3d-8790-50ed-8fef-6ddf67b62950.html

[dneal]

Court orders Columbus statue in Philadelphia.

With Italian immigrants being discriminated against as "non-white" in early American history, it's refreshing to see the courts not allow further progressive racism in their attempts of erasing of Italian history in America.

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/marconi-plaza-philadelphia-columbus-statue/2986317/

[Chuck Naill]

Last Confed statue set to come down in Richmond:

Richmond Times-Dispatch: Richmond set to remove A.P. Hill statue as early as Monday.

https://richmond.com/news/local/richmond-set-to-remove-a-p-hill-statue-as-early-as-monday/article_67d2cd3d-8790-50ed-8fef-6ddf67b62950.html

Good for them.

[TSherbs]

I was listening to a conversation yesterday about the removal of a statue for Christopher Columbus in Chicago. One person said something about rewriting history or that history is subjective. Is this true in your opinion. I think I understand why statues are being removed, especially Confederate "heroes". I think I understand why Columbus is not a hero.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure what you meant by "hero" here, but no, for me, Columbus was no personal hero of mine. I don't find my "heroes" in these kinds of persons or accomplishments. But he was certainly a leader of maritime success (mostly) who turned out to have a large role in the expansion of Europe into the Americas. I understand his being admired for that. His name is known in every house in America. (His anglicized name, that is). I also understand why Columbus would be loathed for these same contributions to imperialist destruction.

Public monuments are tricky things, complicated by ownership, provenance, public cultural perceptions, new historical awareness, and civic identity issues. I feel that any city or town should be able to take down any object on its property that it owns (the property and the art), but when the ownership or management is shared, then this becomes more complicated. And always municipalities have to deal with the response of their citizenry to the decisions.

[dneal]

Every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.
- George Orwell

Apparently liberals read 1984 as a guide instead of a warning.

[Chuck Naill]

Actually, history is finally being allowed to be understood. It shouldn't be seen as liberal to desire to know history. The books I read are much older than anyone posting here which says the history was there all along. Modern historians are providing true history and not novels.

When you look at Reconstruction and its aftermath where Southern States were allowed to live as if they had won, what took place with making another slave state, preventing voting by Americans, and later Jim Crow, is the true history. There have been no dates altered and history didn't stop.

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest". Paul Simon, The Boxer

[Chuck Naill]

This is a good read and serves as an example of America's systemic racism into a time when many of us were either alive or soon to be born.

"Mr. Seidule reports that the Army refused a proposal by the United Daughters of the Confederacy to give the academy a portrait of Lee wearing the gray uniform of the Confederacy but allowed a portrait of him from his time in Union blue, before he joined the leadership of the rebellion. “Now that Lee was back, his likeness would multiply over the next 70 years.” In the meantime, the academy would become known as “a perfect hell for Negroes” who dared enter.

The valorization of Lee continued in 1950, when the secretary of the Army, Gordon Gray, ordered West Point to add a portrait of Lee wearing Confederate gray at the “height of his fame.” Mr. Seidule argues that this more frankly Confederate Lee portrait reflected the secretary’s resistance to Truman’s desegregation order. “Gray couldn’t stop integration,” Mr. Seidule writes, “but he could highlight Lee.”

The decision to expunge Confederate tributes from military assets reflects a welcome, if belated, declaration that the men who nearly destroyed the country in defense of the right to own human beings are unworthy of federal veneration. That it took so long to reach this realization reflects the extent to which the lie of the Lost Cause still holds sway in the United States."


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/27/opinion/fort-lee-renaming.html?unlocked_article_code=e4_-VVXy6Y0ikWhBH8F52u2ZdZdC7J5N4vxMMxGMOl5mbq9-Z1JjAnxDeGRl9b4XOF5f6UwIAA7drFpQoCth10uVoMOejmGBAI 6QBpHXrobekVfd9yrXE1k-qLPLLSWig5LXz8GS8-HfxwXpxEOfNLLRNwz5TBHIJXJojmH7htZBKCfc9AgfZNI2ZxJK RD1TZLb8j9F9SPmWagYW3OxHSjqbSITJwl9DN9Enew_bV9N9AR 1dO1oNBdOyXdX3WzDzeThwryGEfWDkJPvyvWN4YiE8P7ekEj2q uzQkF17ti3SXrZwHo9QGvNbxOoHMiYEEeTBbKsxRd8qDea9u&giftCopy=4_Disclaimer&smid=url-share

[TSherbs]

Another one coming down, this one in Arlington National Cemetery:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/confederate-memorial-removed-coming-days-arlington-national-cemetery-105718054

[dneal]

Adam Kinzinger says anyone who complains is just a big MAGA crybaby.

Jefferson owned slaves, don't you know.

[dneal]

So the statue leftists are trying to remove from Arlington is a reconciliation memorial.

Removal is temporarily halted by Trump appointed judge.

[724Seney]

So the statue leftists are trying to remove from Arlington is a reconciliation memorial.

Removal is temporarily halted by Trump appointed judge.

The parallels between what these leftist idiots are doing and what their forefathers tired to accomplish with the Chinese Cultural Revolution is beyond uncanny.
And, our own resident Maoists here are providing us with daily reminders of their lunacy.
It was a fool's errand before and it's a fool's errand now.
With, of course, no shortage of fools...........

[TSherbs]

Woah...judge puts delay on statue removal now to review whether graves are being disturbed: https://apnews.com/article/confederate-memorial-arlington-cemetery-restraining-order-65a00f0e3b49b22547059ee021ec3e82

[Pendragon]

Adam Kinzinger says anyone who complains is just a big MAGA crybaby.
He doesn't have anything better to do with his time?

[724Seney]

Adam Kinzinger says anyone who complains is just a big MAGA crybaby.
He doesn't have anything better to do with his time?
Actually........
No!
:pound:

[TSherbs]

Judge tours cemetery, then lifts the injunction. Sees "no evidence" of any harm to graves. Not even the grass has been disturbed. Calls the injunction request at best "ill-informed," at worst "inaccurate" [ie, a lie]. When the litigants argued that reconciliation would be hurt by its removal, he pointed out the gratuitously racist and white supremacist addition to the statue of a "slave running down the road after his 'massa'", and replied. "What is reconciling about that?"

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/19/judge-allows-removal-confederate-memorial-arlington-cemetery-00132626

Besides, Gov. Younkin has arranged for the racist reconciliation statue to be displayed on land owned by VMI. Statues of virtually any racist (or seditious) kinds may be displayed on privately held lands with permission of the owner. One can even charge admission and try to make a profit.

[TSherbs]

This recent case highlights what has been becoming clearer and clearer: even the courts are used to try to leverage lies for political or social-wars gains. It's disgusting. One of my satisfactions over recent months has been the slow and steady process of holding bald-faced liars to account in the courts, even if years after they tried to use their lies and empty charges for their advantage and to harm others. And lawyers who lie and abet these clients and take their money are the worst. I'm pretty sure that Dante reserved a special place in his depiction of Hell for them. The fines and disbarments for lawyers who abetted Trump's Big Lie and multiple (dozens) of frivolous cases are well deserved.