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View Full Version : Noob-E, Top 5 Pen, Basics Question



bdpatton2
March 23rd, 2010, 09:37 AM
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say hi and ask all of the experts out there how I can tell the difference between a good FP and a bad FP and out of the list below which would be in the top 5 FP's for writing with a thick/bold, black more-wet-than-dry feel? And any other basic noob information that you could give about buying FP's would help out tremendously.

Aurora
Caran d'Ache*
Conklin
Conway Stewart
Cross
Dunhill
Esterbrook
Faber Castell
Handmade Pens
Lamy
Marlen
Montblanc
Namiki
Omas
Other
Parker
Pelikan
Pilot
Rotring
S.T. Dupont*
Sailor*
Sheaffer*
Unbranded*
Visconti*
Wahl, Eversharp
Waterman*

Thanks,

Ben

dannzeman
March 23rd, 2010, 07:11 PM
Ben, just to let you know the New Members forum is a place to say hello and give a general introduction so I moved your thread to the Pens in General forum. I think it fits better here as your questions are the type that can create a lot of discussion. Now, on to the good stuff...

I wish there was a simple answer to "how do you tell the difference between a good and bad FP?". I don't think there is one. Some may argue that gold nibs are better than steel but I have a steel nib in my Pelikan M200 that I'd put up against any other nib in the world. The material of the nib does NOT determine smoothness, but it will determine how stiff the nib is and that will have an impact on the writing experience. It would be nice if I could tell you to only look for a pen with a certain type of filler, or one made from only this material, or from this brand, but that still isn't going to help you tell the difference. Price can be a good indicator of quality up to about $300 (new or used price) which I think is the price point where you start to lose the relationship between quality and price. But, others would argue about that price point.

Most pens come with the option of a broad or bold nib. Some will naturally write more wet than others but you can always have one tuned to your preference (I know someone who could do that for you ;) ). The first pen that comes to mind is a Lamy Safari with a 1.5mm stub. It's a very popular pen at an affordable price.

I would probably recommend going to Fahrney's or Fountain Pen Hospital and just looking at all the pens in your price range. I could recommend you a good pen based on your price range but if you don't like the design or it doesn't feel right in your hand then it'll be the worst pen you've ever used. If you find something you think you'll like but can't actually get one in your hands then I'd just come back here and ask about it.

Kelly G
March 24th, 2010, 08:16 AM
Ben,
First - welcome to the forum and the world of fountain pens.
Second - I want to echo what Dannzeman said above. The experience of fountain pen use is quite personal and thus answering "good or bad" questions is tough. It really comes down to what appeals to you; the feel, the look, the performance, etc. And that's just the pen, then there are the inks and papers.
My best answer is that any well tuned fountain pen with a properly designed feed can meet your needs. The reverse is also true - an expensive pen that is out of tune can provide a horrible writing experience.
What this means is that you are going to have to try a lot of pens and learn what you like and don't like and learn to recognize some basics about recognizing problems with pens; problems such as nib misalignment or filling system issues. It is not too difficult and there is a ton of information on the web. There are two web sites that you need to be familiar with. One is www.richardspens.com the other is www.penhero.com The first is Richard Binder's site. He is a repair guru and general good guy. His site has lots of information on pens in the Reference info section. Pen Hero has a tab titled Pen Bookmarks - that is my go to site for linking to other sites. Plus there is some good information on vintage pens there as well.

I have 17 of the brands on your list in my accumulation and to say one is better than the other isn't possible without talking about specific pens. For example; I have some very nice vintage Sheaffers and some that aren't quite as nice. I have a number of Esterbrooks and you'll find they are all about the nib - the body of and lever filling system of most Esterbrooks (S,J,LJ and earlier) are dependable and the same in terms of reliability. An decent Esterbrook with a sound nib is as good a pen as many Sheaffers, Parkers, Wahls, Watermans, etc. However, IMHO, a top notch Sheaffer, Parker, Wahl, Waterman, etc yields a better writing experience than the average Esterbrook. Having said that, you need to know that I have a red Estie J w/2668 nib inked on my desk all the time.

Bottom line: You have to try them yourself to learn what you like and don't like. If you live near a pen show site - go to a show (I think there is a link from Pen Hero to give you the schedule). If you live out in the sticks like I do, it simply takes some time to learn what you need to. But, it is a fun process! You don't have to spend a fortune to find some really nice pens. Check out junk shops, estate sales, auctions - spend a few bucks and see what happens. Be careful with ebay - there are some decent pens out there but you really have to know what you're doing. I've been down that road. If you can get to a brick and mortar pen shop - you can usually try out some pens there; you can at least see how they feel in your hand.

Most of all, have fun. Fountain pens are a fairly harmless obsession.

dannzeman
March 24th, 2010, 09:11 AM
Kelly makes a lot of good points. I'll just add that FPGeeks has a pen show schedule that you can sort by location or date, the first of its kind I believe. you can find it here: http://www.fpgeeks.com/pen_shows/

Also, I'm pretty sure there is a large brick and mortar store near you but I cant remember its exact name. Just do a Google search and I'm sure you'll be able to find it.

Sent from my HTC HERO using Tapatalk

eriquito
March 24th, 2010, 09:50 AM
Ahoy Ben,

Welcome to Fountain Pen Geeks and the wonderful (sometimes wacky) world of Fountain Pens!

I agree with everything said above by both dannzeman and Kelly G. Well, I might have raised an eyebrow at Kelly G's remark: "Fountain pens are a fairly harmless obsession," but that's only because I know he has over 250 pens! =)

The advice they have offered is top-notch, sound, and on-the-money. But I remember being a complete fountain pen noob not so very long ago and asking very similar questions. I needed advice (and received it), but what I wanted were answers. Answers to these types of general questions are difficult to come by because there are so many variables. The only absolute correct answer is: You must make your own decision.

Everhow and however, all of the foregoing not withstanding, I'll go out on a limb here and provide you with concrete answers. The community can lynch me later...

You want to write with a thick/bold, black, more-wet-than-dry feel.

Get some black ink. Make it Aurora Black and you'll be very happy. I promise.

As for thick/bold/wet, that will depend on the nib and the pen's flow, both of which can be adjusted. Start with a broad or stub nib and if you want thicker, bolder and/or wetter, then learn to adjust/grind yourself or send the pen to a nibmeister (http://www.fpgeeks.com/wiki/Nibmeister). Again, you'll be happy. I promise.

Now for the pen... Pens from the list of manufacturers that you provided can be found from $20 to $2000 (and up!). That's a huge price range and you'll have to narrow that down before anyone (other than a pen salesman) can help you.

<lecture> Based on the fact that several makers on your list have asterisks that lead nowhere and that "Other" and "Unbranded" are listed, I'm going to guess that you simply copied this list from some web page without giving it much thought. That's not fair, Benjamin. If you want people to provide thoughtful answers and thoughtful advice, you should provide a list that required at least as much effort. </lecture>

Assuming you'd like to explore fountain pens without securing a second mortgage, here's what you do:

If you like vintage pens, start with an Esterbrook and a broad or stub nib.

If you like modern, get yourself a Lamy Safari with a broad or calligraphy nib.

Or - if you like jumping in with both feet - get both an Esterbrook and a Lamy Safari. You'll have an instant "collection" and when you announce here that you purchased two pens, you'll be our Hero of the Day!

=) Eric
Son of Ragnar

Further Reading:
Pen Show Calendar: Fountain Pen Geeks (http://www.fpgeeks.com/pen_shows/)
Esterbrook Nib Information: esterbrook.net (http://www.esterbrook.net/nibs.shtml)
Lamy Safari: Lamy USA (http://www.lamyusa.com/safari.html)

skyppere
May 18th, 2013, 10:18 AM
In general these days I do most of my pen buying on line or at shows but in your case, I think making your first purchase you should go into a bricks and mortar store and test drive a bunch. Yes, you may end up paying more but that will be more than made up for by the personal attention you get and the satisfaction you'll feel walking out of the store with a fully inked, write-ready pen in your pocket. I don't know where you live but that's where I would start if I were you. Of the pen brands you listed. ALL of them can be just great pens fitting what you want... or not. I'd get up close and personal with one, especially your first!
skyppere

tandaina
May 18th, 2013, 11:53 AM
1. Welcome!

2. What others have said: Also, ranking BRANDS may not be the best way to go.

I collect mainly German piston fillers and SOME of my Montblancs I'd rate above SOME of my Pelikans. Other Pelikans I'd rate higher than some of my Montblancs.

It's about the pen, not necessarily the brand.

So here's some useful info I wish I'd had starting out.

1. Brands are important only in that they are an indicator of categories of features you may prefer or not. For example: you can know ahead of time that Pelikan is going to have a German style nib, almost certainly a piston filling mechanism, and size will be indicated by the MX00 number (2 smaller than 4 smaller than 8, etc).

That doesn't mean you can say that ALL Pelikans are better than all of brand X. What it DOES mean is that as you collect, if you discover that German nibs really fit your style, or that you hate piston fillers then a Pelikan may or may not be a good idea. The individual model will then have other things to consider (size, cost, extra features, etc).

2. Antique can be very different than modern. Some people are antique pen people. I could have saved a lot of money if I'd known I was a 40s and 50s pen person at the start. I bought a ton of modern pens I now never ink (guess I should sell those, huh?) before I realized what I was looking for. Again here, brand generalizations will get you in trouble. A 50s Pelikan gold nib bears NO resemblance (except hte logo). The 50s nib is semi-flex, it has a very flat iridium tip, tends to be expressive and have good line variation. A modern Pelikan nib tends to be very firm, has a very ROUND iridium tip and very little line variation.

See what I mean? You sort of have to start by just trying a few pens. Pick ones you think are attractive and try a variety of nibs. Then figure out what you liked and didn't about each and refine your next choice based on that learning. Eventually you'll discover the best pens for YOU.

snedwos
May 18th, 2013, 12:03 PM
BAM! That is quite some piece of thread necromancy! Over three years!

My only experience of Pelikan nibs is of the steel Broad nib in my M215, and that is positively springy! Almost like my Ahab! And I found similar when I test wrote with an M1000 though the ine variation wasn't enormous, I'll grant you.

tandaina
May 18th, 2013, 12:21 PM
I'm comparing to the old Pelikan nibs. I'd consider even the springiest modern Pelikan nibs nails compared to the old ones. But again, it is all about personal preference and what you're comparing to! :)

AtomicLeo
May 18th, 2013, 05:17 PM
Welcome to the world of fountain pens!

Great advice above. Let me add my own experience. I first started getting (obsessing!) about fountain pens about 5 years ago. I was always a pen collector and I preferred the broad, wet points of gel pens. What I didn't realize at the time, I liked the broad wet pens because they were general smoother writers. Once I had a medium-fine nibbed fountain pen that glided across a page like my 1.0mm Uniball Gel, it really opened up a whole new world for me.

For you first pen, I would strongly recommend buying from a pen shop if you can. You will not get a great deal, but the ability to hold the pen and write with it, I think is critical, when you really do not know what your preferences will be. Also, you didn't mention a price range. That is really the important criteria, because there are some brands I would recommend in the <$100 price point and others I would not.

Runnin_Ute
May 20th, 2013, 09:49 PM
I am a relative noob in the fountain pen world (5 not counting the downright cheap Pilot Varsity-$8 for 3 AFTER tax). For many years, I had two (Waterman Phileas in fine and Lamy Al Star (don't recall if original nib was medium or fine) replaced nib & section (broke on threads) put a fine on it. Now it has a 1.1 mm italic. (I may never go back to the fine in it) Since December 2012 I have bought another Phileas (medium), a Levenger True Writer Silver Anniversary (fine) and a Noodler's Konrad just arrived today from Goulet pens. (no affiliation, just satisfied customer of both Levenger & Goulet)