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writtenworlds
November 26th, 2013, 02:43 AM
Hello FP Geeks, and goodbye Chinese fountain pens.

I have about 15 Chinese fountain pens. All of them but one have needed some sort of adjustment... anything from widening the nib a little, to aligning the tines and smoothing the nib too. The only Chinese fountain pen I have that wrote wonderfully right out of the box is my Jinhao 159. So, I'm quite used to adjusting nibs.

Now let me tell you a little story. A while ago, I got a Jinhao x450. Normally if you need to widen a nib, it only takes about 10 to 15 minutes to do, if you're being careful. This Jinhao x450 just wouldn't write, unless I gave it a fair amount of pressure, so it was obvious the nib needed widening. I gathered my tools and got to work. It took two hours, yes, two hours, to get the nib widened. Then the tines needed to be aligned and the nib needed to be smoothed. After all that, it wrote wonderfully. For a while. I used up all the ink in the pen and refilled it, and now it's decided it wants to leak whenever I hold the pen point-down.

Later, I got a Kaigelu 356. I had heard nothing but good things about them. When my pen arrived, the nib slit and tines were closed so tight, it was like they were welded together. Just slightly down from the hole, not a speck of light would pass between. I worked on that pen and worked on that pen. I really wanted it to work because it was so comfortable to hold. Two hours later and I could get the barest, thinnest line from it. And then the tipping of one of the nib tines decided to break off.

So then it was on to a Baoer 388. Baoers are generally well-received and this was basically the same model as the Kaigelu 356. When it arrived there was a nice amount of space in the nib slit, until it got to the tines, which were stuck fast together. Three hours, three hours of work and the pen still wouldn't write without applying quite a bit of pressure. The nib just would not adjust. And I noticed that it too was leaking whenever held point-down, both with bottled ink in a converter, and a completely different brand of ink in a cartridge.

At that point, I carefully and deliberately bent the nib into a very interesting shape. Three different Chinese fountain pens from three different manufacturers all in a row. I'm done with Chinese fountain pens. I'm so frustrated, I can't even look at my fountain pens right now. I'm just reaching for my trusty roller ball. It has a magic button on the back where when you press it, it just works. Every time.

WilsonCQB1911
November 26th, 2013, 03:08 AM
Sorry to hear about your troubles. No matter how much people seem to love their Chinese pens I just can't get interested. China isn't known for quality.

Paul-H
November 26th, 2013, 04:47 AM
Hi

On the other hand I have quite a few Chinese pens including many different Jinhao's, Baoer 388's Kaigelu, Hero and Picasso and apart from a couple over the very cheap (99p) pens all have wrote wonderfully out of the box and never given a moments grief.

So sometimes they can get it right. :)

Paul

Sailor Kenshin
November 26th, 2013, 05:46 AM
I believe certain pens and people have affinities for each other. I have a huge affinity with Chinese pens, Safaris and Sailors... Not so much with Sheaffer and Parker.

Writtenworlds may just need to find the right affinity. Obviously for you it's not Chinese pens.

jar
November 26th, 2013, 06:27 AM
I've had a few Chinese pens and for the most part, they were adequate. One I would even place in the nice category. But when I here "China isn't known for quality." I'll admit my hackles do rise. I certainly can remember when the same was said about Germany, England (especially the Prince of Darkness), Japan and definitely the US.

China can and does make very high quality items in every area or sector from computers to medicines to car parts to space craft to planes to vessels...

China is among the forefront in many of the sciences.

BUT China like the US and Germany and England and France and Japan and every other manufacturing nation can also produce really cheap commodity products. It is unreasonable to expect a product designed to sell at the under $10.00 price point to be as high quality as a product made at a much higher price point.

AndyT
November 26th, 2013, 06:31 AM
That's unfortunate. My feeling is that things have got a whole lot better just recently and it's been a fair while since I've come across a Chinese pen which wouldn't lay down a passable line out of the box. Some of the semi-hooded nibs are downright impressive.

Still, I can't blame you for rejecting the Chinese fountain pen out of hand after such a string of lousy experiences. Long ago I vowed never to touch a rollerball again under similar circumstances. :)

Sailor Kenshin
November 26th, 2013, 08:17 AM
You can always send your unwanted Chinese pens to the Mercy Home For Unloved Chinese Fountain Pens....aka, me. ;)

KrazyIvan
November 26th, 2013, 08:39 AM
I agree with Jar. On the opposite side of that, unfortunately there is no guarantee that a quality pen will be any better. Let me rephrase that. You have a higher chance of getting a quality pen from a quality manufacturer that is perfectly fine. That does not mean that the occasional dud will not get through to the consumer. I had an Aurora Ipsilon with a bad case of baby's bottom. I exchanged it for a Pelikan. I have heard of others complain about Visconti, Delta, Pelikan, Mont Blanc, and others just to name a few.

Actually, for me, that is part of the fun of collecting fountain pens. Going in and making adjustments to nibs. Making them write to my liking is quite relaxing. That's just my perspective. On the other hand I understand wanting to have a pen that works out of the box. I refused to fix the Aurora even though I know I could have done it.

My recommendation to you is get a quality pen from someone like Richard Binder (http://www.richardspens.com/) or John Mottishaw (http://www.nibs.com/). They will make sure your pen is writing before it even gets to you.

kaisnowbird
November 26th, 2013, 09:07 AM
My recommendation to you is get a quality pen from someone like Richard Binder (http://www.richardspens.com/) or John Mottishaw (http://www.nibs.com/). They will make sure your pen is writing before it even gets to you.

+1 on that.

Writtenworlds, so sorry to hear your frustrating experience with these pens. My luck has not been very bad, but I have to say I'm generally not impressed with the Chinese pens I bought/received in the last few years.

I still have 5 Chinese pens left and sold/gave away 8, including a TWSBI. I think the numbers are indicative. Of the remaining 5, only 2 were made in recent years. The other three were made in the 70's and 80's when the nibs' quality from reputable Chinese pen manufacturers was better controlled.

I will give TWSBI one more chance, but am unlikely to buy any other Chinese FP in the near future.

Don't give up on FPs yet. I hope you run into something fantastic real soon.

dr.grace
November 26th, 2013, 10:26 AM
I too gave up on Chinese pens several years ago. Some of them wrote well and were attractive in one way or another while others were poorly made or designed. The biggest problem for me, however, was that nearly all of them were made of brass and thus too heavy, or too top-heavy, to write with comfortably.

Senecabud
November 26th, 2013, 10:33 AM
Oh, dear. I just ordered a Jinhao x450 yesterday from Goulet. A review on Goulet's site as well as reviews on Amazon indicated that this pen worked well despite the cheap price. I've never had a bad pen and all of mine --10 so far-- work well. But I bought the Jinhao x450 just for my Rohrer & Klingner Salix (Iron Gall) ink. Well, we'll see.

One thought--I gather from your time and effort spent in adjusting the nib that these pens don't have removable/replaceable nibs (?). I see they take #6 nibs, and I have two #6 nibs from Goulet which I use in my Noodler's Ahab pens (because my hand tires when trying to use the flex nibs). If I do get a Jinhao x450 with a problem nib, I was assuming I could just replace the nib; of course, that adds to the cost, but if I liked the pen otherwise, it was an option.

Sailor Kenshin
November 26th, 2013, 10:46 AM
The x450s will probably work just fine.

79spitfire
November 26th, 2013, 11:05 AM
The OP is surely having a stroke of bad luck!

My biggest beef with Chinese FPs are the fancy looking finishes coming off. The lacquer and thin plating looking like trash after a trip or two in my pocket. I don't mind a 10 year or older pen looking a bit worn, but one I bought less than a week ago?

WilsonCQB1911
November 26th, 2013, 11:16 AM
I've had a few Chinese pens and for the most part, they were adequate. One I would even place in the nice category. But when I here "China isn't known for quality." I'll admit my hackles do rise. I certainly can remember when the same was said about Germany, England (especially the Prince of Darkness), Japan and definitely the US.
.

That's just ignoring reality though. Chinese manufacturing's business model is to produce items as cheaply as possible and fill the void for lowest cost products. Doing this naturally requires skimping on quality and sometimes safety. They make foods, even baby foods, with unsafe chemicals in them, etc. and that's for developed countries like the US. In developing countries they offload radioactive material by forming it into bottles and packaging for goods they sell. Low quality is one thing, but this is isn't the same model that Japan followed. Japan and Germany pulled themselves out of it and are renowned for quality. I don't think that's China's end game nor do I think the controls are there to allow for it. I don't remember the US ever been known for cheap goods. It's hard to make anything cheap there.

I'm not saying that one can't be satisfied with their goods. They fill a niche, but with China's track record, I'd rather spend money elsewhere.

writtenworlds
November 26th, 2013, 12:30 PM
Writtenworlds may just need to find the right affinity. Obviously for you it's not Chinese pens.

Sometimes you can buy a Chinese FP on eBay for, say, $10, and sometimes you can get the exact same model from an auction listing for about $3, with free shipping. I have wondered before, though I have no basis for my wondering, if sometimes when someone gets a pen for really super cheap from one of the auctions, the seller goes through their stock and picks out one of the lower-quality examples of that model to send along.


But when I here "China isn't known for quality." I'll admit my hackles do rise. I certainly can remember when the same was said about Germany, England (especially the Prince of Darkness), Japan and definitely the US.

In my experience, there's a difference between products manufactured in China for non-Chinese companies and products manufactured in China for Chinese-owned companies. It seems there's a difference in the level of quality control based on whether the company that's having the product manufactured is Chinese or non-Chinese, even though in both instances the products are manufactured in China.


Actually, for me, that is part of the fun of collecting fountain pens. Going in and making adjustments to nibs. Making them write to my liking is quite relaxing. That's just my perspective. On the other hand I understand wanting to have a pen that works out of the box. I refused to fix the Aurora even though I know I could have done it.

I would greatly prefer a pen that writes great right out of the box. However, if a pen needs the nib slit widened a little bit it doesn't bother me too much, as long as the nib will actually adjust. With some of my past Chinese pens the nibs adjusted fairly quickly, but with the last three that I talked about above, the nibs either took a long time to adjust, as with the Jinhao, or they just wouldn't adjust at all, as with the Kaigelu or Baoer.

I would love to get a pen from one of the places you linked, however I'm sure they're unfortunately out of my price range.


One thought--I gather from your time and effort spent in adjusting the nib that these pens don't have removable/replaceable nibs (?). I see they take #6 nibs, and I have two #6 nibs from Goulet which I use in my Noodler's Ahab pens (because my hand tires when trying to use the flex nibs). If I do get a Jinhao x450 with a problem nib, I was assuming I could just replace the nib; of course, that adds to the cost, but if I liked the pen otherwise, it was an option.

The nibs are removable, but I don't have any spare nibs laying around so I wanted to make the nibs they came with work.

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I appreciate it. I do still like fountain pens, but as you can tell from my experiences I'm very frustrated with them right now.

Laura N
November 26th, 2013, 01:00 PM
Hello FP Geeks, and goodbye Chinese fountain pens.

I have about 15 Chinese fountain pens. All of them but one have needed some sort of adjustment... anything from widening the nib a little, to aligning the tines and smoothing the nib too. The only Chinese fountain pen I have that wrote wonderfully right out of the box is my Jinhao 159....

I had one bad Hero and that was enough for me. :)

6of1
November 26th, 2013, 01:28 PM
Norman Haase at His Nibs (http://hisnibs.com/) adjusts all the Chinese pens that he sells. I wholeheartedly vouch for his service.

That being said, though, the only pen I've never had to worry about was the Hero 100, which appears to be discontinued now. Still a good value for the time being. I'm curious about the 110, which looks like its replacement.

Be seeing you.

amk
November 26th, 2013, 01:46 PM
My Chinese pens write nicely. Not perhaps compared to my best vintage pens, but quite okay, and they are nice cheap pens to try out my nib adjusting skills on.

But the thing I don't like about them - I think someone else mentioned it - is that they're very heavy, being made of brass, and also that the design of many of them has far too much bling (mind you, the same can be said about Italian pens at $200 and upwards).

The really great thing about Chinese pens? They got me into this mad fountain pen world in the first place :-)

kaisnowbird
November 26th, 2013, 05:42 PM
The thing with Chinese pens though is often there will be something I'm not happy with over time. For example:

- I got a Duke Imperator with actual 14K gold nib as a gift. The pen wrote well and was springy but occasionally had hard start. For a slim pen, the clip and cap ring were too gaudy. As it wasn't a sentimental gift, I was happy to see it sold -- vacate some space for a new pen.

- my Hero 100, again 14K gold nib. Writes well and particularly for Chinese characters. The friction fit cap is very tight though. Once I was using it at a seminar, I took some notes, put the cap on, and I couldn't uncap it! So I couldn't take more notes! I had to duck out of the room to really pull on the cap real hard to uncap it. And the irony is the cap is not well sealed. The nib tries out if left unused for a day. More hard starts. I've only inked the pen about 5 times and I noticed that the thin chrome plating on the clip was damaged. Nothing like this ever happened to my other pens. I knew then that it's time to let go.

The two remaining modern Chinese pens in my humble collection may not stay that long any way. There is always something not quite right that prevents me from getting very attached to them.

dr.grace
November 26th, 2013, 06:06 PM
My Hero 100 also started out as a nice writer, but eventually developed an air leak in the inner cap and had the same problem with drying out quickly. Once I tried a real Parker '51', I never looked back.

writtenworlds
November 26th, 2013, 07:52 PM
Norman Haase at His Nibs (http://hisnibs.com/) adjusts all the Chinese pens that he sells. I wholeheartedly vouch for his service.

Thanks for the link, I'll have to keep that in mind.


The really great thing about Chinese pens? They got me into this mad fountain pen world in the first place :-)

What got me into fountain pens was the search for the perfect pen. It started out with ballpoints, then moved on to gel pens, and then to rollerballs. I do believe I've found the two best rollerballs on the market, for my preferences at least. Then it continued to fountain pens. When you have a fountain pen that writes well and behaves well, it's the best pen out there. It's a shame they tend to be so finicky. Fountain pens have been around for so long, you think they would've gotten it right by now.

KrazyIvan
November 26th, 2013, 08:26 PM
Just one question. Have you tried anything other than Chinese fountain pens?

Laura N
November 26th, 2013, 09:37 PM
Just one question. Have you tried anything other than Chinese fountain pens?

Yeah, exactly. Because I'd say nearly all the pens I've used have written well. What's your budget? What are you looking for in a pen? Maybe the thing to do is get some recommendations for a good pen.

Sometimes if you add up all the money spent on bargain pens, you realize you could have bought one or two great pens. Heck, $15 buys you a Pilot Metropolitan or Sheaffer VFM: neither will set your world on fire, but they are solid and competent pens.

writtenworlds
November 27th, 2013, 04:06 AM
Just one question. Have you tried anything other than Chinese fountain pens?

My first fountain pen came from a little boxed set just called Pen and Ink Fountain Pen. I got that to see if I liked fountain pens, which I did. I don't think that counts as a Chinese fountain pen. All my other fountain pens have been Chinese though.

I actually do have plans to get a Pilot Metropolitan. I hope they don't require any work or tweaking out of the box.

kaisnowbird
November 27th, 2013, 04:25 AM
My Hero 100 also started out as a nice writer, but eventually developed an air leak in the inner cap and had the same problem with drying out quickly. Once I tried a real Parker '51', I never looked back.

Me too. My Parker 51 from 1944 is a lot more reliable and in better condition than the 2012 Hero 100 that I gave up.



I actually do have plans to get a Pilot Metropolitan. I hope they don't require any work or tweaking out of the box.

Feedback on the Pilot Metropolitan appears to be consistent good. My personal experience agrees too -- a fairly good writer, decent construction, real value for money.

mhguda
November 27th, 2013, 05:30 AM
Sometimes the nib on a fountain pen -not just a Chinese pen but any pen - is a little too close to the feed, or not far enough; IOW the nib-feed gap needs adjustment. So, if a pen is too dry or does not even put down any ink, it is not necessarily so that the nib slit needs to be widened. You can widen the nib slit all you want, but if the nib-feed gap is too wide or too narrow, that won't get ink to the paper. I guess what I want to say is, don't assume one solution for the non-writing problem - try to diagnose first so your fix is appropriate. For example if you can get a piece of paper between the nib and the feed, that gap is too wide and you need to narrow the gap. For mild adjustments, I have usually turned the nib and feed upside down and pushed them closer together; if the gap is too narrow, pushing down on the nib while holding it as flat as it will go will usually open up the gap enough to allow ink to pass. That usually also opens up the slit a bit too, so it's a question of slowly feeling around what you are doing, and trying the effect of what you have done before doing something drastic.

Good luck, and I'd say, don't give up on them yet - while there sure are duds, there are some wonderful ones out there, too, and not necessarily the most expensive ones!

Sailor Kenshin
November 27th, 2013, 05:45 AM
Just one question. Have you tried anything other than Chinese fountain pens?

My first fountain pen came from a little boxed set just called Pen and Ink Fountain Pen. I got that to see if I liked fountain pens, which I did. I don't think that counts as a Chinese fountain pen. All my other fountain pens have been Chinese though.

I actually do have plans to get a Pilot Metropolitan. I hope they don't require any work or tweaking out of the box.

What is your budget anyway?

A lot of people might raise eyebrows, but have you tried a Pilot Varsity or a Platinum Preppy?

Ten bucks will get you both, and the Varsity writes almost forever...the Preppy is refillable. Preppy has a choice of fine or medium nib. I kinda prefer the medium.

KrazyIvan
November 27th, 2013, 11:34 AM
I don't want you to take this as an attack. It's not. I am just trying to steer you towards what may work for you and point out that generalizing is not the way to go about it.

Right now your experience is such a narrow band of the full spectrum of what is available. Saying "Fountain pens have been around for so long, you think they would've gotten it right by now." really is not a fair statement. You are judging the entire genre of pens based on your limited experience with what some would consider the equivalent of cheap dollar store pens. I buy cheap pens mainly to practice my nib grinding skills. At one time I was right where you are now. Once I understood the fact there is more out there than cheap Chinese or any cheap pen for that matter, my enjoyment of the hobby really grew at a ferocious rate. I still have not experienced the full spectrum. I don't even think that is possible in one lifetime and my budget. I am trying to get as much experience of what is out there as I can.

As others have said, there are plenty of fountain pens out there that are low cost and would probably serve you better. Pilot is a good starting point as well as Platinum. If you can shell out a little more and you are not left handed, I would say go with a Lamy Safari. A lot is going to depend on your preferences and budget. There are good quality and budget minded pens to be had. Just have fun with it.

I will tell you that the Pilot Metropolitan is probably a good first pen. I don't have one but I recently had an old high school buddy tell me via Facebook that they tried their first fountain pen (because of my constant posting of fountain pen related topics) and it was the Metropolitan. He is loving it so far.

Sailor Kenshin
November 27th, 2013, 12:37 PM
I'm a southpaw and have, like, ten Safaris. Nooooo problemmm!

KrazyIvan
November 27th, 2013, 02:14 PM
I'm a southpaw and have, like, ten Safaris. Nooooo problemmm!

You and Bogon. :) Ask Ana of wellapointeddesk.com and she will disagree. A buddy here at work is also one that the Safari is not going to work for him but I steered him towards the Kaweco Classic Sport.

writtenworlds
November 27th, 2013, 04:00 PM
What is your budget anyway?

My budget is really only about $20 for any given pen.

I have to say, the Sheaffer VFM does look lovely. Any good words on this one?

AndyT
November 27th, 2013, 04:28 PM
Like Ivan, I've bought cheap and cheerful pens to tinker with and give away to potential addicts enthusiasts ... it's almost a disappointment when they play nicely as supplied. They really aren't the best place to start if you want to hit the ground running and enjoy writing straight away. Too much chance of getting a lemon.

I reckon I'm probably just about the only person here who doesn't own either a Safari or a Metropolitan. There's no particular reason for that, and all those other people can't be wrong. I do have a Kaweco Sport but got unlucky with that one (it's not just Chinese pens which can come with jammed nib tines), so that gets a resounding thumbs up for design and cuteness but only a tentative recommendation for performance. My suggestion for a starter pen other than the Lamy or Pilot would be to save up a little extra for a Faber Castell Basic.

kaisnowbird
November 27th, 2013, 06:47 PM
What is your budget anyway?

My budget is really only about $20 for any given pen.

I have to say, the Sheaffer VFM does look lovely. Any good words on this one?

Here is a link to the Awesome Review of VFM (http://fpgeeks.com/2011/12/sheaffer-vfm-fountain-pen-the-awesome-review/) by the our totally awesome mods. (I miss Eric. Thank goodness we still have Dan!)

I would rate the Pilot Metropolitan higher for its slightly thicker diameter and a much better filling choices. Cartridge only fills should be reserved for tiny pens. Sheaffer should know better. The Metropolitan on the other hand comes with a Con-20 converter and cartridges.

Tracy Lee
November 27th, 2013, 06:49 PM
I reckon I'm probably just about the only person here who doesn't own either a Safari or a Metropolitan. There's no particular reason for that, and all those other people can't be wrong. .

Right there with you, Andy, I have neither. But early this year all I seemed to be hearing from everyone us how much they love their TWSBI pens so I bought one based on that alone. I haven't been disappointed. So, if a good contingency here says these are good pens in that range, I say trust in your geeks and give them a try for sure. :thumbup:

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

KrazyIvan
November 27th, 2013, 07:10 PM
I love how all the recommendations are slowly creeping up in price. Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

writtenworlds
November 27th, 2013, 07:21 PM
What is your budget anyway?

My budget is really only about $20 for any given pen.

I have to say, the Sheaffer VFM does look lovely. Any good words on this one?

Here is a link to the Awesome Review of VFM (http://fpgeeks.com/2011/12/sheaffer-vfm-fountain-pen-the-awesome-review/) by the our totally awesome mods. (I miss Eric. Thank goodness we still have Dan!)

I would rate the Pilot Metropolitan higher for its slightly thicker diameter and a much better filling choices. Cartridge only fills should be reserved for tiny pens. Sheaffer should know better. The Metropolitan on the other hand comes with a Con-20 converter and cartridges.

The review was really good, except for the pen causing fatigue when written with for a long time, and the fact that a standard converter won't fit it. I write most of my first drafts by hand, so extended writing comfort is important. And I don't like not being able to use one of my standard converters in it for easy access to my bottled ink. I may give this one a pass.


I love how all the recommendations are slowly creeping up in price. Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

http://i43.tinypic.com/2vcgrau.jpg

Mesu
November 27th, 2013, 11:11 PM
The Chinese pens have worked well for me: smooth nibs and no skipping. Any minor problems are easily resolved.

The only problem with them is they are quite heavy and my hand is light. I don't like putting much pressure on the nib which ends up in my hand balancing out most of the weight and tiring out easily. Maybe, the reason why they are rarely inked.

ndw76
November 28th, 2013, 01:56 AM
I have had a couple of hero 006 pens. One I gave away after an experiment, one I broke while playing with nib grinding, and the last one is a keeper. Converted to an eyedropper with an IPG gold coloured nib. This is my cheapest and one of my best pens. This is my go to pen for math.

AndyT
November 28th, 2013, 04:01 AM
Right there with you, Andy, I have neither.

Gosh, two of us. :)


I love how all the recommendations are slowly creeping up in price. Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

Teehee! There is a logic to it, though. Long ago in a decade far far away I started out with some truly terrible pens but it wasn't until a Parker 25 came my way that I started to like fountain pens. Skipping the first couple of rungs of the ladder at the outset is probably worth doing, finances permitting.


The review was really good, except for the pen causing fatigue when written with for a long time, and the fact that a standard converter won't fit it. I write most of my first drafts by hand, so extended writing comfort is important.


The Chinese pens have worked well for me ... The only problem with them is they are quite heavy and my hand is light.

Time for me to mount my hobby horse and point out that when people used to earn a living by writing all day most pens were made of ebonite, celluloid or similarly light materials, and came in at about a third of the typical weight for a modern pen. What really mystifies me is this business of some modern manufacturers actively engineering excess mass into their designs.

Sailor Kenshin
November 28th, 2013, 08:02 AM
What is your budget anyway?

My budget is really only about $20 for any given pen.

I have to say, the Sheaffer VFM does look lovely. Any good words on this one?

I have the matte black. Nice little pen that takes standard international carts. I think around $15. Which puts it in the league of the Met, which takes proprietary carts and has a converter I loathe. But I keep getting free ones.

writtenworlds
November 28th, 2013, 01:22 PM
I have to say that's one thing I don't like about the bigger name-brand pens. Most of them don't take standard cartridges or converters, and most of them don't come with a converter, you have to buy it separately. Even when getting a really inexpensive pen like the Platinum Preppy. And being on a budget, that's just not as attractive. The squeeze-type converter like what comes with the Metropolitan isn't my favorite either, but I'm glad it at least comes with one.

Sailor Kenshin
November 28th, 2013, 04:40 PM
I have to say that's one thing I don't like about the bigger name-brand pens. Most of them don't take standard cartridges or converters, and most of them don't come with a converter, you have to buy it separately. Even when getting a really inexpensive pen like the Platinum Preppy. And being on a budget, that's just not as attractive. The squeeze-type converter like what comes with the Metropolitan isn't my favorite either, but I'm glad it at least comes with one.

Yeah, I hear ya... but the Preppy carts are very robust and eminently refillable. And they hold a lot of ink.

Tracy Lee
November 28th, 2013, 05:19 PM
Aren't preppies easily converted to eye-dropper? That is the ultimate filling system. Love them.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

AndyT
November 28th, 2013, 05:21 PM
There's the option of using one of these (http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/Platinum-Preppy-International-Adapter.html) to convert the Preppy to international cartridges. I'm pretty sure that last time I bought one the pen came supplied with the converter and a standard cart for some reason.

writtenworlds
November 29th, 2013, 12:35 AM
Yeah, I hear ya... but the Preppy carts are very robust and eminently refillable. And they hold a lot of ink.

I've thought before about refilling cartridges as it doesn't seem like that big a hassle. Perhaps I'll have to think on it some more.

John the Monkey
November 29th, 2013, 07:24 AM
I'm a southpaw and have, like, ten Safaris. Nooooo problemmm!

Weighing in late, I know, but as a fellow sinistral, I've used Lamy Vistas, Al-Stars and Safaris without problems (EF, M and 1.1 nibs).

One cheapie I don't see mentioned often here is the Schneider Base - a slightly goofy looking school pen type FP - I'm very fond of mine, although it's M nibs on these or nothing.

As for the subject of the op, I bought a ridiculously cheap pack of Hero Jumbo 616s, and every one of those was terrific - smooth nibs, and no hard starts or skipping. (I left the one I use at work on my desk for two weeks, unused, and it started right up when I needed to take some notes on my first morning back). I've yet to get a Jinhao X450 (I've owned 2) or a Baoer 517 (I've owned 3) that I could get to write reliably, even after hours of fiddling with the blasted things.

Sailor Kenshin
November 29th, 2013, 09:47 AM
Yeah, I hear ya... but the Preppy carts are very robust and eminently refillable. And they hold a lot of ink.

I've thought before about refilling cartridges as it doesn't seem like that big a hassle. Perhaps I'll have to think on it some more.

The Preppy carts have such a big 'bore' you could almost use a conventional eyedropper with care. But I use a plastic pipette. They're all over fleabay at about a dime each if you buy in bulk.

Mesu
November 29th, 2013, 10:10 AM
Time for me to mount my hobby horse and point out that when people used to earn a living by writing all day most pens were made of ebonite, celluloid or similarly light materials, and came in at about a third of the typical weight for a modern pen. What really mystifies me is this business of some modern manufacturers actively engineering excess mass into their designs.

You are spot on. More than half of pens in my not so small (~150) pen collection are ebonite and majority are in rotation as daily writers.

Most are Indian eyedroppers which need to be rarely refilled during the week due to their huge ink capacity.

welch
December 24th, 2013, 10:54 AM
I bought several Chinese pens when I returned to FPs a few years ago. Some were awful; I've kept a Picasso all-black -- forget he model name, but a simple and normal-sized pen. Also have a very large Duke that wrote OK. Both are tucked away in my "when I want a pen that takes an international cartridge" box, and have been for three or four years.

Why? What's the alternative for a fountain pen under $30?

- Parker 45 on EBay often lands around $10, because they aren't for collectors. They were Parker's all-component, everything unscrews, cartridge/converter, student pens. They last, and parts from a 1998 P45 will fit a 1963 P45. You can swap the nibs. A reliable pen so good that Parker could not stop making them until 2006 or '07, after beginning about 1960.

- Sheaffer 330, "new old stock", from Peyton Street Pens. I don't know where Teri M found her stash of NOS post-1960 Sheaffers, but the 330 was a smooth pen with the great Sheafer inlaid nib.

- Lamy Safari, if you can tolerate the grip. (I think Lamy has upside down: if they had shaped the grip like Parker's 75, I'd be using a Safari today)

- Esterbrook: almost indestructible, beautiful marbling, but those were not the company's selling points. Esterbrook sold "the world's most personal pen": go to a pen-counter, the advertisement said, and find just the right point out of Esterbrook's line of about 40 different sizes, shapes, and tipping material. Then screw it into one of our pens. All Esties accept any Esterbrook point.

- Many of the older "third-tier" pens. A Wearever or an Arnold, for instance, might not be as good as a Parker 51, but many of them are better than the $5 Chinese pens.

If you snag a lever-filler on EBay, you might need to replace the sac, but that's easy on most of those pens. The Wearever, for instance, was a "friction fit", meaning that the section and nib will pull out...with some wiggling, maybe some heat, and usually some "section pliers" (needed to get a solid grip and some leverage). Ink sacs cost a couple dollars each. You might ned to scrape some dead sac from the barrel, which requires a thin screw-driver or something like a dentist's pick...maybe a flashlight. Then you paint some shellac on a section's "nipple", stretch the sac over, let dry, brush the sac in talc (used for billiards...not talcum powder). That's it. Push the nib, section, and sac back into place and you have restored an old pen...more or less.

Benfits of hunting for "handy-man special" older pens on EBay? You finish with a better pen than most new Chinese pens, and you've gotten a look at the insides of the type of fountain pen that most people used, if they used a pen.

Sailor Kenshin
December 24th, 2013, 11:27 AM
I am never able to find such pens at the prices you list. So for $10 and under, I like to stick with my Chinese pens as knockarounds and ink testers.

I wish more of them came in lightweight plastic, though.

mhosea
December 24th, 2013, 11:42 AM
Let me define a "long term success" as still using the pen a year later without cursing it. My long-term success rate with Chinese pens is probably around 15%, vintage pens about 50%, where the latter is depressed a bit by the inherent risks of buying used pens based only on some blurry photos--the best deals tend to come with risks attached. While I do like the Wing Sung 3203 and almost like the Haolilai 601F, most Chinese pens have poorly sealing caps, which leads to flow issues and various other ink misbehaviors. Contrast this with the NOS Sheaffer No-Nonsense pens I got from Todd at isellpens.com (he might still have some pink ones), which I can leave inked for months without any significant dryout. Although the No-Nonsense nibs aren't tipped with a harder metal than the nib, and they sometimes need adjustment, they often turn out to be very smooth, reliable writers. So, while I have to give credit where credit is due with that 15%, my odds with vintage pens appear to be much better.

discopig
December 24th, 2013, 09:20 PM
I only have one chinese pen, the Hero 704, and it's been a great pen so far. Smooth writer, worked great out of box, no adjustment needed. I guess it might just be pure luck though.

AndyT
December 25th, 2013, 04:09 AM
It might be luck, but it strikes me the chances of getting a good one are a lot better now than they were even just a couple of years ago. Unacceptably scratchy nibs, flow problems and even those brittle inner caps seem to be rare now - maybe it's a case of experience gained making all those entry level Parkers and Shaeffers. I broadly agree with mhosea and welch about vintage representing the best value for money, but as far as modern rigid-nibbed pens go it's mostly cosmetic design which holds the Chinese manufacturers back now.

welch
December 26th, 2013, 01:56 PM
I am never able to find such pens at the prices you list. So for $10 and under, I like to stick with my Chinese pens as knockarounds and ink testers.

I wish more of them came in lightweight plastic, though.

Sorry, Sailor.

- I haven't bought a Parker 45 in three or four years. Just checked EBay and the typical price seems to have climbed to about $25. I last bought a P45 almost by accident: I bid $5 -- opening price -- on a 45 and discovered that I had won it. No one bid. There is somewhat moe interest now, but he P45 is still under-valued and under-appreciated.

- In my head, a "restored" Esterbrook should sell for about $25 - $30. That was the price at which "Applejim" sold them...he died a few months ago. I haven't looked, but I thnk OldRetiredPerson still sells at about that price. I happen to like "unrestored" Esties, meaning Esties that need a sac and point.

- If Wearevers are selling for more than $10, I'll start selling my repair practice-pens on EBay.

- Check Richard Binder's list of third-tier and "big-box" pens, meaning pens made to be sold as a Macys or Sears and Roebuck pen. Also look for National, Arnold, Travellers, American. Work through Richard's "Glossopedia" for some names. I love the mid-30s lever-filling marbled pens. It's as if the pen companies figured out how to use a marbled material and went wild. After WW2, companies tended to make section and barrel in a sold color. Some of the plastics were experiments hat failed...I once tried to pull the section on a 1950 (or so) pen and found that, under a little heat, the section could stretch and bend almost like rubber...but would not let go of the barrel.

WirsPlm
December 26th, 2013, 02:56 PM
I like cheap Chinese pens because they're good ways to practice nib work, and they have much more interesting aesthetics at a lower price than the big name brands (Delta Dolce Vita vs. Dolce Vita Naranja, Jinhao Dragon pens, lots of other examples), but they are definitely FP 201. I'm a tinkerer at heart so needing work is honestly part of the draw for me, but I know that's not the case for everyone. For reliable and cheap FPs, buyers kind of need to go to the entry-level pens of a big brand, or to only get Chinese pens from a good supplier that is known to sell good quality products (and even then it can be risky unless they check all the pens).

Zhivago
December 27th, 2013, 10:24 PM
My Hero 100 also started out as a nice writer, but eventually developed an air leak in the inner cap and had the same problem with drying out quickly. Once I tried a real Parker '51', I never looked back.

As I have one on the way, this and the other negative reports on the 100 were annoying to read. I've had real good luck with two Hero 1000s I got earlier this year; no hard starting or any other issues. Only time will tell if this will last. I've also had, for the most part, good luck with the 616 Doctor/Jumbo pens. Despite these positive experiences, I do agree that ultimately there is no substitute or equal to the P51.

TSherbs
December 28th, 2013, 08:19 AM
I love all my inexpensive Chinese pens and use a few every day. Yes, I have worked a bit on the nibs for each one, but since then they have written like butter and have never failed or leaked. And all under $10. Hard to beat that for performance/dollar ratio.

pajaro
December 28th, 2013, 09:49 AM
My wife bought me a Jinhao X-450, which is a decent working pen, smoothnib. Weighs a ton. Cap can actually post, if posted hard enough. For the rest, Inexpensive Chinese Pens make me feel good about my Parker 51 aeros.In my biased opinion the only good pen Parker made. Those Sheaffer Imperials are also the real deal. I have a few Touchdown (plunger filler) Imperials that are return-to pens after the Sonnets, 45s, Chinese cheapies and Pompous German Junkers have disappointed.

terim
December 28th, 2013, 11:47 AM
Thank you, jar. I also bristle at sweeping generalizations. We recently picked up some mid-range Duke models and have been very pleased with the quality. When it comes to a pen below $25, I'll take these Dukes over a Noodlers or a Lamy Safari.

Let the outrage commence ....

TERI

Scrawler
January 1st, 2014, 09:46 PM
I wonder if it makes a difference where you buy them from. I have nothing but good to say about the Chinese pens I have bought that came from Isellpens, HisNibs and Engeika. On the other hand the pens I have bought on ebay, shipped direct from China are a different matter. Those seem to need nib adjustment, sometimes smoothing, and in the case of a package of 10 Hero 616, 3 needed to be thrown away. As Teri points out about Duke, I have not used a bad one, and I would take one over a Noodlers pen. Proof of this is that I still have my Dukes, and have given away all the Noodlers pens I have had. As to the comments above about Lamy Safari, my daughter is left handed and swears by the Safari as a note taking pen for school, to the extent that I have had to get her the new specials in each of the past 3 years.

Koyote
January 1st, 2014, 10:13 PM
I bought a couple of the Jinhao 159 pens off eBay after reading many positive reviews. They wouldn't write consistently - much skipping. I fiddled with them and even slipped in a TWSBI nib that is a good writer - still skipped, both of 'em.

Life is too short to deal with cheap junk, so I chucked 'em. n=2 is not a reliable sample size, but I'm not wasting any more time.

Sailor Kenshin
January 2nd, 2014, 05:41 AM
I haz a sad whenever I hear people throwing out fountain pens. There's always someone who'd be happy to tinker with them.

Scrawler
January 2nd, 2014, 05:58 AM
I haz a sad whenever I hear people throwing out fountain pens. There's always someone who'd be happy to tinker with them.

I understand, and I am with you on this, but the 3 Hero 616 I threw away were not worth the effort. If I had machine tools I would have made something of them, and they were worth far less than the cost of the postage to send them to someone who cared and had the skills.

magnesium68
January 2nd, 2014, 10:04 AM
I have no problem with my Jinhao x450 or x750 , they wrote perfectly out of the box, the x450 is more like a medium and the other one a fine but both of them can accept the Noodlers ahab nib, so for the price they are a good deal!

mhosea
January 2nd, 2014, 12:21 PM
Well, I've bought something like 20 Chinese pens, and recently a set of 10 additional Wing Sung 3203's. I can generally make Chinese pens decent writers, and I can usually make the caps seal pretty well if they don't already. I wouldn't say on the whole that the Chinese pens I've bought were bad quality. In fact, I have often been impressed by the quality for the price in this way or that, but there's something about them. Over time they just don't compete well. A skip here, a skip there. I picked up my Parker 45 (which I don't even like all that much) last night after working on a Wing Sung just to see Diamine Ancient Copper come out of it, and it was just so different, so better, wet, smooth, 100% reliable with no skips. The same guy is adjusting and smoothing the nibs, etc. (me), so maybe it's just that I'm better at some than others, but I suspect that there's something about the nibs and feeds. I cleaned the Wing Sung feeds pretty aggressively when I got them, so I don't think it's residual oils or anything. I know plastic feeds have to be etched to promote capillary flow, so maybe it's got something to do with that. OTOH, one of my Wing Sung 3203's has a Sheaffer Feathertouch nib on it (from a slender TD, a nib longer and more slender than the ubiquitous Feathertouch #5--maybe it's #4?), and it is excellent in that configuration, perhaps because the nib is more wettable. So it's a mystery to me, but I'll keep at it.

Cookies
January 2nd, 2014, 03:31 PM
I wonder if it makes a difference where you buy them from. I have nothing but good to say about the Chinese pens I have bought that came from Isellpens, HisNibs and Engeika. On the other hand the pens I have bought on ebay, shipped direct from China are a different matter. Those seem to need nib adjustment, sometimes smoothing, and in the case of a package of 10 Hero 616, 3 needed to be thrown away. As Teri points out about Duke, I have not used a bad one, and I would take one over a Noodlers pen. Proof of this is that I still have my Dukes, and have given away all the Noodlers pens I have had. As to the comments above about Lamy Safari, my daughter is left handed and swears by the Safari as a note taking pen for school, to the extent that I have had to get her the new specials in each of the past 3 years.

I'd say that might have something to do with it. I've only purchased Chinese pens from isellpens and xfountainpens (with the exception of a Picasso I grabbed on the 'bay) and have yet to have a dud. Every one of them has been smooth as silk. And though I find the weight for most of them either much to heavy or much too light that's just personal preference. They aren't my first choice for everyday writing, but I bring them with me when I'm hiking or doing something where there's a good chance I'll damage or lose them, and I enjoy the experience very much. As others have mentioned they're great practice pens if you want to try your hand at grinding or smoothing.

Also, to the previous poster, China is most certainly known for it's quality in numerous areas. Silks, pottery, art, porcelains...

mhosea
January 3rd, 2014, 01:00 AM
Also, to the previous poster, China is most certainly known for it's quality in numerous areas. Silks, pottery, art, porcelains...

I assume by "the previous poster" you had the second poster (WilsonCQB1911) in mind rather than the me.

Margana
January 7th, 2014, 12:54 PM
Of the six Chinese pens I own, only one, a Jinhao M750, has flow issues. That same pen has with minimal use started to shed its skin. The two Baoer Eight Horses wrote well from the start and still look pristine. Jinhao is the parent company for Baoer so they do know how to make better quality pens.

The other three Chinese pens include a Leonardo, a Dannitu, and a Duke Rhyme Star. The latter is the least impressive pen of the lot and weighs a ton. The Leonardo and the Duke have calligraphy (fude) nibs which are great fun if you've never used one. The steel Leonardo nib beats the 14K Duke nib for smoothness and definition easily. All three models have been discontinued.

Of the other entry level pens mentioned, I have five Noodler's, at least six Lamy Safaris, and a Platinum Preppy. The Preppy cap would no longer tighten after just a couple of uses. The other pens have had no issues with two exceptions. The Lamy 1.1 mm nibs don't always flow well, but the EFs have all been perfect. No problems with any of the Noodler's pens, but the cellulose odor is off-putting. It fades with time so I live with it. All of these pens are light weight and work for extended writing sessions.

I am not bashing Platinum pens. I have several #3776 fountain pens and rank the #3776 music nib as my current favorite pen. The nib on the Preppy is a nail with good flow, but even at the price, a pen should last longer than a few uses.

Esterbrooks are in a different league and unpredictable when purchased on eBay. Some of mine have been great while others no so much. However, if you can replace a sac, the nib selection is a good reason to buy an Estie. At least I keep telling myself that every time I buy another one.

AndyT
January 7th, 2014, 02:34 PM
The Preppy cap would no longer tighten after just a couple of uses.

Sounds familiar. I have a couple of those with cable ties around the cap lips ...

mhosea
January 7th, 2014, 03:03 PM
The Preppy cap would no longer tighten after just a couple of uses.

Sounds familiar. I have a couple of those with cable ties around the cap lips ...

3M Temflex rubber splicing tape here.

Sailor Kenshin
January 7th, 2014, 04:57 PM
I'm confused. Preppy cap 'refused to tighten?' Isn't it s snap-on?

mhosea
January 7th, 2014, 06:16 PM
I'm confused. Preppy cap 'refused to tighten?' Isn't it s snap-on?

It is, but it is made of a brittle plastic with no cap band. Through posting or through wear and tear snapping on, it will crack.

Margana
January 8th, 2014, 12:09 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. Pen people are so creative!

hbdk
January 13th, 2014, 08:35 AM
Can't say I have had many bad experiences with Chinese pens. In current rotation:
Baoer 3040 - a bit of a wet writer, but well behaved with 4001 B/B or another dry ink. Writing fine out of the box.
Jinhao X450, gave it a bit of smoothing when it arrived, has been a nice writer since.
Kaigelu 368 - also a bit of smoothing to get it going, really well behaved.
Picasso Montmatre - my 3rd (my go everywhere pen together with a Parker Frontier), I tend to forget them when visiting clients. Light smoothing and a sonic clean. Very stable.

On the other hand I have recently thrown out 10x 616s - turned out to be fake (who would fake one of the cheapest FPs in existence??); not one good writer among them . Well at 5£ it was no great loss - might try to get a real one some day.

picautomaton
January 13th, 2014, 12:44 PM
The most common defect that I have found with the 'well priced Chinese pens' is the cartridge converters. They generally don't seal at section nipple and internal piston seal. My Wing Sungs and Doctors with squeeze filler work well enough.

KrazyIvan
January 13th, 2014, 01:45 PM
I should take pictures of my daughters Chinese pens. She has been using them consistently for school for about a year now. One has lost most of the lacquer on the section. It looks okay as the metal underneath is a dark color as the rest of the pen. Another is starting to show signs of lacquer deterioration but it looks like wrinkles. The third pen is a Lamy Vista that looks almost the same as the day I gave it to her, except for the silver screening on the Lamy logo. It has worn mostly away but it is used even more than the Chinese pens.

kaisnowbird
January 13th, 2014, 06:18 PM
... Another is starting to show signs of lacquer deterioration but it looks like wrinkles.

My black Italix Parson's Essential has mini wrinkles. It's only one year old and has seen no more than occasional use. :(

Mags
January 14th, 2014, 05:07 AM
I should take pictures of my daughters Chinese pens. She has been using them consistently for school for about a year now. One has lost most of the lacquer on the section. It looks okay as the metal underneath is a dark color as the rest of the pen. Another is starting to show signs of lacquer deterioration but it looks like wrinkles. The third pen is a Lamy Vista that looks almost the same as the day I gave it to her, except for the silver screening on the Lamy logo. It has worn mostly away but it is used even more than the Chinese pens.

Your daughter should be testing a pen for your blog and after a year give it a durability score. Some children are hard on pens and others not so much but all that jostling and backpack carrying and accidental drops takes its toll ....very year we send a full pencil case....every year my son returns with a few crayon pieces a pencil with no eraser and maybe one marker....last year he still had his fountain pen too...he is learning to look after one of the many tools by carrying it. ;)

KrazyIvan
January 14th, 2014, 11:59 AM
I should take pictures of my daughters Chinese pens. She has been using them consistently for school for about a year now. One has lost most of the lacquer on the section. It looks okay as the metal underneath is a dark color as the rest of the pen. Another is starting to show signs of lacquer deterioration but it looks like wrinkles. The third pen is a Lamy Vista that looks almost the same as the day I gave it to her, except for the silver screening on the Lamy logo. It has worn mostly away but it is used even more than the Chinese pens.

Your daughter should be testing a pen for your blog and after a year give it a durability score. Some children are hard on pens and others not so much but all that jostling and backpack carrying and accidental drops takes its toll ....very year we send a full pencil case....every year my son returns with a few crayon pieces a pencil with no eraser and maybe one marker....last year he still had his fountain pen too...he is learning to look after one of the many tools by carrying it. ;)

My daughter is in college and has broken three cell phones in roughly as many months. I am not letting her near my pens. :p

Mags
January 14th, 2014, 05:30 PM
I should take pictures of my daughters Chinese pens. She has been using them consistently for school for about a year now. One has lost most of the lacquer on the section. It looks okay as the metal underneath is a dark color as the rest of the pen. Another is starting to show signs of lacquer deterioration but it looks like wrinkles. The third pen is a Lamy Vista that looks almost the same as the day I gave it to her, except for the silver screening on the Lamy logo. It has worn mostly away but it is used even more than the Chinese pens.

Your daughter should be testing a pen for your blog and after a year give it a durability score. Some children are hard on pens and others not so much but all that jostling and backpack carrying and accidental drops takes its toll ....very year we send a full pencil case....every year my son returns with a few crayon pieces a pencil with no eraser and maybe one marker....last year he still had his fountain pen too...he is learning to look after one of the many tools by carrying it. ;)

My daughter is in college and has broken three cell phones in roughly as many months. I am not letting her near my pens. :p

I have to feel good he did as well as he did at the end of grade 5 then bringing his FP home.

betweenthelens
January 15th, 2014, 06:28 PM
I have to chime in here. I have a TWSBI, my latest Chinese pen, and it writes perfectly well. A friend gave me three Hero 616 models and two write well. The third is so-so but I think I can tinker with it to make it an acceptable writer.

My first pen purchase, after I got back into fountain pens last summer, was a Bookworm 675 for under $10. I've heard mixed reviews on this pen but mine was (right out of the box) and remains a perfectly wonderful pen. The finish hasn't peeled off as some have experienced and the pen has never skipped or had other problems with ink flow. It also writes incredibly smoothly as well.

Quality control is an issue anywhere, more so in countries that strive to provide products cheaply as they compete for their share of the global market. There has been much written about quality control (specifically in China) and it's really very interesting. Interesting also is the relationship between Chinese manufacturers and exporters and those who import these Chinese goods in the West. Often, the story is one-sided.

AndyT
January 16th, 2014, 04:06 AM
Quality control is an issue anywhere ...

Most definitely. Arguably a more serious issue if the pen in question comes from a prestigious European manufacturer which sees fit to buff its nibs to such a mirror shine that they won't write on smooth paper without remedial work to get rid of the baby's bottom profile. That's a story I've heard quite a few times just lately.

It seems to me that if a pen costs $10 it's only reasonable to expect to have to do a bit of tweaking: in fact it's surprising how often that turns out to be unnecessary. Comparing a $1 Hero unfavourably with a Parker 51 is beside the point, really.

mhosea
January 16th, 2014, 01:21 PM
Arguably a more serious issue if the pen in question comes from a prestigious European manufacturer which sees fit to buff its nibs to such a mirror shine that they won't write on smooth paper without remedial work to get rid of the baby's bottom profile. That's a story I've heard quite a few times just lately.

Pelikan? They're not the only one putting out baby's bottoms these days, unfortunately. I've dealt with it in the last year on a Platinum, a Faber-Castell, and a Pilot. I have only owned 20-30 vintage pens, and I have seen various issues, but I have yet to come across one with baby's bottom.

AndyT
January 16th, 2014, 01:53 PM
Nope not Pelikan - haven't heard that. Since it's not my story to tell I don't want to name names, but SBRE Brown has a couple of times in recent videos, and he's not the only one. As for vintage pens, same here.

For what it's worth my suspicion is that buffing wheels are to blame for those malformed tips. Nothing like a felt mop and and chrome oxide for quickly putting an impressive shine on metal, and rounding over edges too.

kaisnowbird
January 16th, 2014, 07:01 PM
My Pelikan (yes, singular) has a bit of a baby's bottom, but thankfully not so serious that I will want to work on it... yet.

DPWilkens
February 11th, 2014, 02:02 PM
I just bought what I think is a Hero 616 from Amazon (the product name says "Hero Extra Light Fountain Pen"). Not sure if it's going to work out of the box or indeed at all, but it reminded me of a dirt-cheap Wing Sung I had once and nostalgia got the better of me. Plus it bumped my total shipment up to the free shipping level, so that it was essentially a free pen. Does anyone else have experience with the 616?

Sailor Kenshin
February 11th, 2014, 02:19 PM
I have about ten of them, bought many years ago from isellpens and speerbob from fleabay. All of them are great, reliable writers that I reach for day in and day out.

rdcalhoon
February 11th, 2014, 02:30 PM
I recently bought two Hero 616's from isellpens and was given one earlier (thanks heath). I did a touch of smoothing on each with a buffing stick, but that may just be me.
I would buy them again from isellpens.
The two I bought are different from the one I was given. Caps don't fit, threads are different, one is shorter, end of the cap of the one is narrower and more pointed than the others. The last bit is a feature since I can pick the pen from my shirt pocket by feel.
I have to assume that they come from different factories, but it makes no difference to my uses.
All of them write well.

DPWilkens
February 12th, 2014, 07:28 AM
I used to buy a lot of Chinese pens from isellpens. I found them to be very unreliable, but that is really before I knew much about how to tweak nibs and properly wash out fountain pens. I also didn't know about the large selection of fountain pens that were cheaper than 50 dollars but still good quality, such as Noodler's and the Pilot Metro. At the time I only knew about the luxury pen market and so a cheap, everyday pen was really attractive. I had this theory that the Chinese pen companies had been manufacturing fps since 1949, and had been serving an isolated market with basic-quality pens since the Mao era. Nowadays it seems like a lot of them are just taking tooling and designs from Japanese, American, and European companies and producing lower quality copies. Yet I still like the idea of picking up a really decent, cheap Chinese pen, maybe out of a batch that had originally been produced as say, Parker knock offs for Chinese officials.

pico
February 16th, 2014, 09:19 PM
My experience is about 50% of the really cheap ones are worth keeping/using. Considering I've never paid more than $7.00 for one, that's not bad... It's a gamble and may not pay off if you only get one or two.

Clear plastics must be difficult to produce this cheaply. I'm done buying cheapo auction pens for now, but if clear demonstrators were to show up, I might try again.

Sailor Kenshin
February 17th, 2014, 05:16 AM
On the other hand, ten WS 333s I got off fleabay for $16 all seem fine. That's $16 for all ten, making them officially My Cheapest Pens.

After gapping, they are wet writers, perfect ink testers/loaners, and their wild color schemes appeal to my sense of fun.

If they're still available, they would also make good practice pieces for nib-grinding.

I'm sure there are awful Cheap Chinese Pens out there but I haven't run across 'em.

DPWilkens
February 18th, 2014, 02:35 PM
Well, a few days ago my new Hero 616 arrived and after running some tap water through it, the pen writes very nice with Pilot Namiki black. It has completely displaced the Noodler's nib creeper that I had been using for fine work. I'm very pleased, especially since I've had bad experiences with other, older Hero pens in the past.

VertOlive
May 26th, 2014, 03:16 PM
Chiming in, now that I've bought a few Chinese pens in the past year. I have:

1) Hero 715-an elegant, slim pen that's light weight. From speerbob

2) Duke Bamboo- large (as in "could double as a weapon"), very attractive and well made. From hisnibs.com

3) Luoshi etched with a Tiger scene- nicely done, heavy enough that I'd never post it during use. Forgotten ebay dealer.

I bought these for their looks, and to learn about Chinese pens in general. All of them have ordinary, F/M nibs.

All of these write like a boss out of their respective boxes.

KBeezie
May 26th, 2014, 04:40 PM
In regards to TWBSI specifically, there are probably people who will argue that it's NOT Chinese but that it's Taiwanese (apparently this is a big difference to some), and I imagine that the pens from PRC are probably going to have even less quality control than TWSBI.

I myself have never owned a TWSBI, but I noticed that when people voice problems with theirs, the company tends to have no problems shipping out replacement parts for just about any damaged component til you're practically able to make a whole new model of the pen.

Far as Chinese pens that I've owned (and still own):

Jinhao X750 : have had over 8 of these so far, most of them given away either to family or PIF online, they're durable, reliable (for the most part other than drying out after not using them for a week), and I usually don't use the stock nib on them, usually replaced with either a Goulet or Monteverde nib. The current one in my rotation is the first one I got, a Shimmering Sands design fitted with a Monteverde Black-coated fine (was using a Goulet 2-tone EF on it). It's a decent bit of weight to it (being mix of brass and steel), handles whatever abuse I put on it, and the paint job lasts longer than a Monteverde Invincia Deluxe Nighthawk.

Jinhao 159 : A really nice one in the line up, very large though, has a screw on cap instead of a clip on. It's almost a clone of a Montblanc 149 but with a huge badge on the clip. About the same weight as a X750 but a little bigger. Only in black and uses the exact same nib and feed as the X750 and X450. Currently have one fitted with a Goulet 2-tone Medium, I also have a second one (used from someone who gave it to me) that still has the original Jinhao monotone nib that's pretty smooth, but a little inconsistent in how it lays down ink.

Jinhao 611 (Metal): with a fine hooded nib, something like a Japanese Extra-Fine, attractive, pretty thin, pretty durable. The nib on the scratchy side but not unusable. I PIF'd this one when I was scaling down my collection.

Jinhao 599 (Metallic Lime Green): Lamy Safari Clone that was given to me by Pens N More as a review sample, not too heavy, feels durable, and oddest part is that the Jinhao branded nib in a western fine size is smooth and consistent flowing and hasn't dried up on me yet. I'm just not a fan of the 3-way grip that copies off the Lamy Safari (I wouldn't be happy with Lamy's official grip either).

Jinhao X450: pretty much the same as the X750, I've owned 3 of these (one bought, two given), I still have a green marbled one, I PIF'd the other two. It mainly doesn't post well, and the grip has ridges on 3 spots, both issues corrected by the X750, otherwise nearly identical.

Hero 616 : Rather quirky and cheap feeling, once I took some micro-mesh and mylar paper to it, it was a very smooth and wet flowing pen form then on. But I hate permanently built in aerometric fillers. Was PIF'd as well to someone who was simply amazed at how smooth it was. The pen was originally gifted to me in the package with the Sheaffer Snorkel that I had sent back to me after being completely restored.

WingSung 3203 : A nice metallic (almost brown gun metal looking) with a tiny open nib, somewhat on the western fine/medium with a decent converter that came with it's own little agitation method (steel ball bearings). Though it did have some problems with hard start after not being used for a while. This was also PIF'd

Baoer 507 "8 Horse" Design: Ordered 3 of these in different colors, all three were in need of adjustment to the nibs (too dry), once adjusted they were a little on the wet side, not a huge fan of how they felt, but they were cool looking. Gifted two of them, sold the third one once adjusted further.

Winsung 233 : Sort of a Sheaffer Triumph nib clone with an amber ink window. Plastic for the most part, very rigid/stiff nib but had decent flow and could be disassembled for cleaning. PIF'd one, Sold the other, mainly because like the Hero 616, I didn't care for the permanently installed squeeze filler. But they were sturdy to say the least.

Uranus KSF-301 (from Speerbob) : A pretty attractive partially hooded Duke pen with a blue body and chrome cap. It's converter seems proprietary and was a squeeze filler only. Also didn't care for metal-on-metal as the cap scraped on. The nib on it was quite smooth with the huge ball tipping on the front which wrote close to the middle of a western fine and medium.

I still have the last one, 1x X750 and 2x Jinhao 159, the rest were either sold or given away as I upgraded to different things. In regards to pens like the 159 and X750, a few dollars more can afford a Pilot Metropolitan at $15 with a very smooth Japanese Medium Nib, and I find they're about as durable but easier to write with (especially considering that my Jinhao choices are technically more expensive when you factor in the nib price).

Scrawler
May 26th, 2014, 05:03 PM
I used to buy a lot of Chinese pens from isellpens. I found them to be very unreliable, but that is really before I knew much about how to tweak nibs and properly wash out fountain pens. I also didn't know about the large selection of fountain pens that were cheaper than 50 dollars but still good quality, such as Noodler's and the Pilot Metro. At the time I only knew about the luxury pen market and so a cheap, everyday pen was really attractive. I had this theory that the Chinese pen companies had been manufacturing fps since 1949, and had been serving an isolated market with basic-quality pens since the Mao era. Nowadays it seems like a lot of them are just taking tooling and designs from Japanese, American, and European companies and producing lower quality copies. Yet I still like the idea of picking up a really decent, cheap Chinese pen, maybe out of a batch that had originally been produced as say, Parker knock offs for Chinese officials.
When I lived in China (1989-1996) I observed that large, fancy looking modern pens were made to be given as gifts, because the pen is associated with education, and presenting one was a symbol of esteem. There was very much a gift giving culture. For the most part these pens were intended to symbolically sign a document, then be out away and forgotten. So it did not really matter that the feed was hard plastic. For everyday use the pens the officials used were quite plain, but worked well. Many of the modern pens we see today come from this gift giving and presentation culture. It was the appearance that mattered. When it came time to present me with my pen I made it known that I did not want a fancy presentation pen, but I preferred something that I was going to use. This caused a bit of a problem, but my hosts cleverly solved it by finding an unused 1954 (the year of my birth) officials working pen. It was NOS and sealed in a nice box. So for my part, I made a great show of opening and filling it, signing the documents, and then placing it in my breast pocket to show that it was going to be used. This pen is an imitation of a Duofold of the time, with a push button filler and a gold nib. I was (and still am) very pleased with it. Despite its plain appearance I increased my host's face by speaking of how special it was to me, and showed off the excellent nib, and spoke of its quality.

mhosea
May 27th, 2014, 12:08 AM
Jinhao 159 : A really nice one in the line up, very large though, has a screw on cap instead of a clip on. It's almost a clone of a Montblanc 149 but with a huge badge on the clip.


The badge is the biggest difference? Although MB 149's are not that special in how they write (IMHO), they have a certain balance and feel in the hand. The Jinhao 159 does little to approximate it, as the grip on the 159 is heavily tapered, the 149 not tapered at all, and the nib on the 159 is much smaller than the 149's. The combined effect of these differences is immense. I'm actually surprised there isn't a proper imitation of the 149 to the same extent as a Baoer 388 is an imitation of the Parker Sonnet, but I guess this would require a larger plastic feed and a larger steel nib. Even just an un-tapered grip section with same nib and feed would be a much better approximation.

KBeezie
May 27th, 2014, 11:10 PM
Jinhao 159 : A really nice one in the line up, very large though, has a screw on cap instead of a clip on. It's almost a clone of a Montblanc 149 but with a huge badge on the clip.


The badge is the biggest difference? Although MB 149's are not that special in how they write (IMHO), they have a certain balance and feel in the hand. The Jinhao 159 does little to approximate it, as the grip on the 159 is heavily tapered, the 149 not tapered at all, and the nib on the 159 is much smaller than the 149's. The combined effect of these differences is immense. I'm actually surprised there isn't a proper imitation of the 149 to the same extent as a Baoer 388 is an imitation of the Parker Sonnet, but I guess this would require a larger plastic feed and a larger steel nib. Even just an un-tapered grip section with same nib and feed would be a much better approximation.

Visually speaking of course, if you took the chunky badge off the clip then to a layman they wouldn't seem that much different other than one being larger than the other. Anyone who *knows* a 149 will of course immediately spot the difference. Not to nitpick, that's just how close it would be generally speaking if the badge were removed to people who know little about pens.

A "proper" imitation of a 149 wouldn't survive without being a straight out counterfeit because MB would go after everyone who attempts to sell it. The 159 has enough generic differences going on that it just basically *looks* like a typical classic pen of that style but not really a pinpoint of anyone other than just being closests to a 149.

I like mango pudding
May 27th, 2014, 11:25 PM
I have both the 159 and 149 and the only similarity is the size and basic shape. Nothing else is the same. I only got the 159 as a tester as to how a 149 would feel in my hand knowing fully well that the weight would be totally different. I didn't get the 159 to compare weight.

mhosea
May 28th, 2014, 12:01 AM
A "proper" imitation of a 149 wouldn't survive without being a straight out counterfeit because MB would go after everyone who attempts to sell it.

Not possible. No patent can be active at this point, so Montblanc would have no legal basis for "going after" an imitation based on design. If it were too close in every detail, there might be a trademark infringement somewhere in the labeling on it, but this is easily avoided. Check out the "Crocodile" brand name on Ebay. You can get a decent imitation of a Starwalker, even a Boheme, although the latter might be better thought of as a "mock up", since it only looks like a Boheme and doesn't function like one (can't do that on the cheap).

I do agree that the chunky badge will tip off even a casual observer, but my point is that thinking of the 159 as a "clone" of the 149 sets the bar too low when other models, even some Montblancs, are much more accurately imitated.

Scrawler
May 28th, 2014, 05:57 AM
A "proper" imitation of a 149 wouldn't survive without being a straight out counterfeit because MB would go after everyone who attempts to sell it.

Not possible. No patent can be active at this point, so Montblanc would have no legal basis for "going after" an imitation based on design. If it were too close in every detail, there might be a trademark infringement somewhere in the labeling on it, but this is easily avoided. Check out the "Crocodile" brand name on Ebay. You can get a decent imitation of a Starwalker, even a Boheme, although the latter might be better thought of as a "mock up", since it only looks like a Boheme and doesn't function like one (can't do that on the cheap).

I do agree that the chunky badge will tip off even a casual observer, but my point is that thinking of the 159 as a "clone" of the 149 sets the bar too low when other models, even some Montblancs, are much more accurately imitated.
Yes, quite right. The 159 may be said to be inspired by the MB, but not a "clone".

sempra
May 28th, 2014, 09:32 AM
Sorry to hear about your troubles. No matter how much people seem to love their Chinese pens I just can't get interested. China isn't known for quality.

Quality? I guess your cell phone is made in Japan? Or, GASP, the US???

KBeezie
May 28th, 2014, 09:43 AM
Yes, quite right. The 159 may be said to be inspired by the MB, but not a "clone".

Inspired would be a much better way of saying it if needing to be very specific.

Doesn't help (newcomers, which I was at the time) when one reviewer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuTRwlDMfp8) describe it as :

In this video, I review the Jinhao 159: a Chinese replica that resembles the Montblanc 149 Meisterstück to an uncanny degree. The differences? Well, the 159 takes a converter instead of being a piston-filler and is not made of resin, but of aluminum. Oh, and then there's the minor price difference: a new 149 will cost you hundreds of dollars and the 159 cost me $0.99.

:P

But I don't feel like it's something worth to get up in arms over, since I feel like if you really want a montblanc, you should get a montblanc. That's just me though.

That being said, in terms of the Jinhao stuff, if the 159 were just a hair smaller (say maybe just a bit larger than a Platinum Century 3776), but still about the same weight if not just a tiny bit lighter (ie: down to what the X450/X750 feels like), I feel like it'd be a nice carry pen that wouldn't have much fear of breaking or losing. It's size just doesn't really work in some of my cases next to most my other pens, but least it's not a yard-o-lead.



Sorry to hear about your troubles. No matter how much people seem to love their Chinese pens I just can't get interested. China isn't known for quality.

Quality? I guess your cell phone is made in Japan? Or, GASP, the US???

:P iPod, iPhone, Macbook, etc ... Made in China (... which I Guess doesn't help if someone were to say Apple is Crap lol). I believe most of the textile that the US uses for clothing is also made in China, as well as a number of electronic components made in name brand products. The cost of labor is just simply cheaper, but quality control is usually another tier to the process, manufactures can work with certain firms to a degree while keeping the cost down on the labor front.

Before the 80s-90s "Made in Japan" was received with the same feeling as "Made in China", back then Made in Japan meant cheap and low quality.

And in regards to paper products, I avoid "Made in U.S.A." when I can, it's just not usually good paper on the inexpensive side, too inconsistent, even though they can make good paper from recycled materials, probably just not cheaply. (ie: I'd buy more mass produced Made in USA products if the quality was up to par).

Also in regards to comparison price wise, my chinese pens (Jinhao mainly) that cost 5-9$ have been holding out longer than some pentel, papermate, parker, BIC, etc pens of the exact same price. The Jinhaos haven't snapped in half or became loose in parts from being bumped etc like some of the local products in that price range, but course I'd have to imagine that a $7 Pentel pen is probably closer to a $1-2 chinese pen, because the profit has to come from somewhere. But domestic sellers (other than HisNib who marks up substantially and hides the model #) are not tacking on more much than a dollar or two when selling the X450/X750/159, so still works out better than non-chinese products in the same price range.

Course once it gets closer to 12-13 for the price of the pen, without having to swap nibs, I start looking at Pilot/etc products like the Metropolitan at $15 (MSRP being something like 18.75, but Goulet sells them at 15) since compared to my X750 it's a bit smoother with the stock nib, and a bit more reliable in ink flow and consistency.

Yes China has Cheap Labor, but you're (wilson) probably using more Chinese products of accepted quality than you realize.

When I was on a chinese pen buying binge I was expecting a good % of them to be flat out duds for the price, like maybe 25-30% of them, but surprisingly only one purchase was like that, and least that was adjustable to be usable (the Baoer 507 I spoke of earlier). And while it's not up to my standard (too wet/broad after being adjusted, plus dries out easy if not used daily), the people who have received them love them, including one college student who happens to write daily. So I guess by adding their standards, I've had a 100% success rate with chinese pens so far, I don't expect pristine workmanship at $10, but I do expect them to work which they do and with minimal fuss, none of them have had any 'accidents', but a few of them have been hard starters to be expected if not used often.

Sailor Kenshin
May 28th, 2014, 11:36 AM
To completely jump the tracks, USA-made paper used to be excellent. I still have a few vintage pads, notebooks and bound journals, which take fp ink beautifully. I'm always looking for vintage paper at yard sales and thrift stores, as long as it doesn't smell moldy. ;)

mhosea
May 28th, 2014, 02:29 PM
But I don't feel like it's something worth to get up in arms over, since I feel like if you really want a montblanc, you should get a montblanc. That's just me though.

It's not really my intention to get excited about it. I just think the comparison between the MB149 and J159 is exaggerated. Stephen overdoes it in that video and especially in the caption. Notice how he admits to holding the J159 differently than he holds other pens. Let that sink in...

The thing with buying a MB if you want a MB is knowing that you want a MB in this age of online ordering. Even if you have a local pen shop, experience often dictates that first impressions are o'er hasty, and buying a new MB149 seems like an excuse to get rid of good money. Most of us are going to get them used, and they are still expensive that way. Furthermore, it takes time to know whether you're really going to like something, and MB 149's are pretty expensive pens to be experimenting with. I know I myself bought a J159 to explore the question of whether the MB149 would be too big or what not. However, what I found out eventually, after a couple of years of unnecessarily avoiding the MB149, was that it is really quite easy to hate the J159 and love the MB149 because they are very different in the hand, regardless of how "uncanny" the visual resemblance might be.

KBeezie
May 28th, 2014, 03:21 PM
But I don't feel like it's something worth to get up in arms over, since I feel like if you really want a montblanc, you should get a montblanc. That's just me though.

It's not really my intention to get excited about it. I just think the comparison between the MB149 and J159 is exaggerated. Stephen overdoes it in that video and especially in the caption. Notice how he admits to holding the J159 differently than he holds other pens. Let that sink in...

The thing with buying a MB if you want a MB is knowing that you want a MB in this age of online ordering. Even if you have a local pen shop, experience often dictates that first impressions are o'er hasty, and buying a new MB149 seems like an excuse to get rid of good money. Most of us are going to get them used, and they are still expensive that way. Furthermore, it takes time to know whether you're really going to like something, and MB 149's are pretty expensive pens to be experimenting with. I know I myself bought a J159 to explore the question of whether the MB149 would be too big or what not. However, what I found out eventually, after a couple of years of unnecessarily avoiding the MB149, was that it is really quite easy to hate the J159 and love the MB149 because they are very different in the hand, regardless of how "uncanny" the visual resemblance might be.

In regards to a 149, I feel they're overpriced for what they are, mostly marked up for status. Cheap Jinhao pens, they're priced about right in my opinion. I feel that they could raise the price a little bit and still have buyers for certain models. $20ish is about the limit I'd pay for a single Chinese-branded/owned pen unless there was something unique about it (which usually price and tinkering are the main unique things about them).

Edit: Who the heck keeps leaving me reputation comments to use the edit button? I'm REPLYING to a post.

11892

HughC
May 28th, 2014, 06:30 PM
I have one Chinese pen, a Ta Tung 707, that came in a lot with something I wanted ( I wouldn't have bought it on it's own....being a pen snob...). Probably from the '70's but ?? and what a surprise it is !! Sure it's a light weight plastic pen but that's where the "cheap" feel ends, it's a piston filler, has an ink view window, has a spring (!!!) loaded clip that really does hold the pen in place ( I confess a good clip is something I really like especially spring loaded), good clean cap threads and a decent sized (gold coloured) steel nib

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lDEocD-AzYk/U4Z7xRuuB8I/AAAAAAAAA_E/8vzhrnsSP_Q/s912/Ta%2520Tung.JPG?gl=AU

It's a fairly standard size ( think Sheaffer TM) and sits nicely in the hand, the caps post firmly and the nib is smooth medium with a bit of spring and lays down a line on the drier side. A very easy pen to use and much better than it's origin might suggest, and from the price/value/quality aspect there's nothing to fault.

Regards
Hugh

Edit to add: I reviewed it here (http://fountainpenboard.com/forum/index.php?/topic/3264-ta-tung-707/?hl=tung) on the FPB some time ago

Sailor Kenshin
May 28th, 2014, 07:09 PM
Ooooo. Like!

I like mango pudding
May 28th, 2014, 09:21 PM
Let's just say I have ink in all three of my 149's and no ink in my 159

KBeezie
May 28th, 2014, 11:38 PM
Let's just say I have ink in all three of my 149's and no ink in my 159

If I owned a 149, I'd do the same thing. :P

kaisnowbird
May 29th, 2014, 11:23 PM
When I lived in China (1989-1996) I observed that large, fancy looking modern pens were made to be given as gifts, because the pen is associated with education, and presenting one was a symbol of esteem. There was very much a gift giving culture. For the most part these pens were intended to symbolically sign a document, then be out away and forgotten. So it did not really matter that the feed was hard plastic. For everyday use the pens the officials used were quite plain, but worked well. Many of the modern pens we see today come from this gift giving and presentation culture. It was the appearance that mattered. When it came time to present me with my pen I made it known that I did not want a fancy presentation pen, but I preferred something that I was going to use. This caused a bit of a problem, but my hosts cleverly solved it by finding an unused 1954 (the year of my birth) officials working pen. It was NOS and sealed in a nice box. So for my part, I made a great show of opening and filling it, signing the documents, and then placing it in my breast pocket to show that it was going to be used. This pen is an imitation of a Duofold of the time, with a push button filler and a gold nib. I was (and still am) very pleased with it. Despite its plain appearance I increased my host's face by speaking of how special it was to me, and showed off the excellent nib, and spoke of its quality.

Thank you for sharing this. What a lovely story!
I never knew that China made button filler. Who was the manufacturer?
Although there are very few modern Chinese FPs that I will keep, some vintage or semi-vintage ones are a lot more pleasant to use. YMMV.

stevekolt
June 27th, 2014, 05:16 PM
I've had a few Chinese pens and for the most part, they were adequate. One I would even place in the nice category. But when I here "China isn't known for quality." I'll admit my hackles do rise. I certainly can remember when the same was said about Germany, England (especially the Prince of Darkness), Japan and definitely the US.
.

That's just ignoring reality though. Chinese manufacturing's business model is to produce items as cheaply as possible and fill the void for lowest cost products. Doing this naturally requires skimping on quality and sometimes safety. They make foods, even baby foods, with unsafe chemicals in them, etc. and that's for developed countries like the US. In developing countries they offload radioactive material by forming it into bottles and packaging for goods they sell. Low quality is one thing, but this is isn't the same model that Japan followed. Japan and Germany pulled themselves out of it and are renowned for quality. I don't think that's China's end game nor do I think the controls are there to allow for it. I don't remember the US ever been known for cheap goods. It's hard to make anything cheap there.

I'm not saying that one can't be satisfied with their goods. They fill a niche, but with China's track record, I'd rather spend money elsewhere.

In total agreement. Their knock-offs of many other manufacturers designs are beyond belief, whether it be fountain pens, pocket knives...whatever. And considering the number of domestic pets that have been killed by their pet food and treats, we do our best to avoid ANYTHING made in China.

I like mango pudding
June 27th, 2014, 09:12 PM
. And considering the number of domestic pets that have been killed by their pet food and treats, we do our best to avoid ANYTHING made in China.

yes, my wife's dog died because of that. They purposefully ignored informing the public about their problems with their dog food being manufactured in China. I blame the manufacturer and the loosey goosey quality controls they have there. I can't think of the unspeakable horrors of those who lost their children due to melamine in the baby formula.

I do not buy any foodstuffs that are Product of China.

johnus
June 27th, 2014, 10:42 PM
This thread brings up some difficult questions.
Greed has cause unbelievable harm to 'all' of us. Not only today, but in the past.

stevekolt
June 28th, 2014, 08:33 PM
This thread brings up some difficult questions.
Greed has cause unbelievable harm to 'all' of us. Not only today, but in the past.

Sorry, but what does this have to do with the topic at hand?:confused:

Scrawler
June 28th, 2014, 09:43 PM
This thread brings up some difficult questions.
Greed has cause unbelievable harm to 'all' of us. Not only today, but in the past.

Although this is way off topic, I agree. You only have to look at modern North America to see the truth of this. Not just there, but in many western countries, schools these days, only teach children enough to want and consume. Our greed will leave the earth an empty husk, then nature will have to go through the process of evolving something that can survive on our leavings.

jacksterp
July 6th, 2014, 04:03 PM
WOW - this thread took an unexpected turn.

FWIW - I now have one Chinese made pen. I think I will leave it at that.

ajhandscomb
December 26th, 2014, 11:23 PM
I live in China now and its all about luck, timing and being persistent. For example, i just found today a wonderful fountain pen that is 85 RMB. Thats about $14.00 USA. And from what i could see it is very nicely constructed.
But I have also had the luck of the Irish when I was once shopping in Lufthansa Shopping Center in Chaoyang, Beijing across from the Westin Hotel and part of the Lufthansa Hotel Chaoyang to find a pen that is exceptional for 6 RMB.....thats about a buck ladies and gents. Some of the threads in here suggest that China's quality is not up to scratch when in comes to pens. Well, maybe. But I assure you keep the boxes and pens of any you have purchased because in time (some of them) they will become quite valuable. As for me, I love all pens, inexpensive, expensive, from any country.....but most of all I just love pens.


Hello FP Geeks, and goodbye Chinese fountain pens.

I have about 15 Chinese fountain pens. All of them but one have needed some sort of adjustment... anything from widening the nib a little, to aligning the tines and smoothing the nib too. The only Chinese fountain pen I have that wrote wonderfully right out of the box is my Jinhao 159. So, I'm quite used to adjusting nibs.

Now let me tell you a little story. A while ago, I got a Jinhao x450. Normally if you need to widen a nib, it only takes about 10 to 15 minutes to do, if you're being careful. This Jinhao x450 just wouldn't write, unless I gave it a fair amount of pressure, so it was obvious the nib needed widening. I gathered my tools and got to work. It took two hours, yes, two hours, to get the nib widened. Then the tines needed to be aligned and the nib needed to be smoothed. After all that, it wrote wonderfully. For a while. I used up all the ink in the pen and refilled it, and now it's decided it wants to leak whenever I hold the pen point-down.

Later, I got a Kaigelu 356. I had heard nothing but good things about them. When my pen arrived, the nib slit and tines were closed so tight, it was like they were welded together. Just slightly down from the hole, not a speck of light would pass between. I worked on that pen and worked on that pen. I really wanted it to work because it was so comfortable to hold. Two hours later and I could get the barest, thinnest line from it. And then the tipping of one of the nib tines decided to break off.

So then it was on to a Baoer 388. Baoers are generally well-received and this was basically the same model as the Kaigelu 356. When it arrived there was a nice amount of space in the nib slit, until it got to the tines, which were stuck fast together. Three hours, three hours of work and the pen still wouldn't write without applying quite a bit of pressure. The nib just would not adjust. And I noticed that it too was leaking whenever held point-down, both with bottled ink in a converter, and a completely different brand of ink in a cartridge.

At that point, I carefully and deliberately bent the nib into a very interesting shape. Three different Chinese fountain pens from three different manufacturers all in a row. I'm done with Chinese fountain pens. I'm so frustrated, I can't even look at my fountain pens right now. I'm just reaching for my trusty roller ball. It has a magic button on the back where when you press it, it just works. Every time.

phonelady61
December 27th, 2014, 05:28 PM
I must say I have all Chinese pens except for a waterman phileas which is my Cadillac of my pens . I have never had a problem with them not writing well but you must remember that all of these pens have to be cleaned very well btwn ink changes and fresh out of the box.