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VertOlive
January 1st, 2014, 12:07 PM
After several months of learning and reading, and some real inspiration from a member of this forum whose post included a Italic sample from Dodington, I've decided that Italic is the style I'd like to learn to improve my cursive.

Here is my question: I'd like a recommendation for a reasonably priced first dip pen, I simply don't know where to start. I am right-handed.


Thanks from a total newbie!

cwent2
January 1st, 2014, 12:34 PM
Speedball - http://www.misterart.com/drawing-illustration/pens/sketching-pens/speedball-hunt-artists-pen-nibs-bowl-pointed-pen-no-512.html

like under 5 for nib holder

MisterBoll
January 1st, 2014, 12:46 PM
Take a look here for nib holders and nibs -

http://www.johnnealbooks.com/

&

http://www.paperinkarts.com/

I don't use italic nibs in holders so I'll let someone else chime in on that.

My favorite ink - McCaffery's Penman's Ink.

AndyT
January 1st, 2014, 02:31 PM
I like old holders because old nibs fit better, but that's by the by. Looking through John Neal Bookseller's selection I'm rather jealous: there are so many to choose from compared to what's on offer here. Probably you should just pick the one which most appeals, and if you like a larger fountain pen go for a thicker design.

As for nibs, if you're using Dodington as a model it could do with being fine and preferably fairly flexible. I believe that the Manuscript round hand nibs are supposed to be quite soft, more so than Brause at least, but I don't know if they're sold in the US. Mitchell might be a good alternative. Whichever brand you go for, I'd buy the two smallest sizes in the first place and see what you think.

Norm Matthews
January 1st, 2014, 03:19 PM
For Italic dip pens, Speedball is probably the easiest to find and is pretty inexpensive. Italic Speedballs are the ones that start with the letter C on the nib followed by a number. The larger the number, the more narrow the nib. The width of the nib determines the height of the letters. Normally an Upper case letter is 7 pen points tall while the lower case is 5 pen points tall.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii101/matthewsno/DSCN1116_zps1dc9dbe1.jpg (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/matthewsno/media/DSCN1116_zps1dc9dbe1.jpg.html)

PS the pens usually come with an oily coating that makes the ink bead up and not flow. This can be removed by passing the nib over an open flame for a few seconds or by washing it with dish detergent.

AndyT
January 1st, 2014, 04:21 PM
I'd be wary of burning off the oil: way too easy to draw the temper. I may as well link to Dr Vitolo's article again which covers the subject of preparing a new nib in depth:

http://www.iampeth.com/lessons/getting_started/getting_started.pdf

However, this time I have a couple of new ones, both from Schin Loong:

Getting Started With a New Nib - An Illustrated Guide (http://openinkstand.tumblr.com/post/57978719800/any-topic-suggestions-reply-below-made-using-a).
Some revised advice (http://openinkstand.tumblr.com/post/71455551696/i-know-youve-probably-mentioned-this-before-but-i-was).

Norm Matthews
January 1st, 2014, 05:01 PM
I taught calligraphy in high school for 35 years. I prepped 15-20 pens every year. I always used a flame. I never had a problem with any Italic nib. There is no flex to worry about with Italic nibs. Of course you can over do anything.

VertOlive
January 1st, 2014, 07:42 PM
It is so amazing, the Emergency Assistance available on this forum!

I was able to go to John Neal's site and order up an ergonomic dip pen holder and a set of Mitchell nibs (sizes 0.6 mm to 3.3 mm). Then a copy of Write Now from Amazon.

Thanks for cutting through the confusion of too many choices!

AndyT
January 2nd, 2014, 05:19 AM
I taught calligraphy in high school for 35 years. I prepped 15-20 pens every year. I always used a flame. I never had a problem with any Italic nib. There is no flex to worry about with Italic nibs. Of course you can over do anything.

I'm glad it works for you: so long as you're happy there's no reason to change.

Nonetheless, from a metallurgical point of view the objections are clear. A candle flame burns at about 1000°C (well beyond the hardening phase of spring steel), and butane at about double that. Since we're talking about extremely thin sections, the chances of annealing the nib even by momentary exposure to that sort of temperature are very high indeed. Obviously that's more of a concern for an extra fine flexible copperplate nib than a broad Italic. Since the manufacturers go to the trouble of tempering the points to optimise wear resistance and flexibility (yes, even in Italics), why take the risk when safe options are available?

MisterBoll
January 2nd, 2014, 08:53 AM
I'd rather the spit method as I've altered nibs with just a touch of a flame.

MisterBoll
January 2nd, 2014, 08:55 AM
Keep this for future reference as they made the most wonderful holders -
http://dippens.net/index.html

They do seem to be on vacation now though.

VertOlive
January 3rd, 2014, 08:48 PM
Keep this for future reference as they made the most wonderful holders -
http://dippens.net/index.html

They do seem to be on vacation now though.

Thank you, I was lurking about there and look forward to see what's on offer when they return, they do look exquisite!