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View Full Version : side by side pics of 1950s MB 144 and 146?



cnjackson
January 6th, 2014, 09:20 AM
Dear All,

I'm wondering if anyone here could provide pictures of a celluloid 144 and celluloid 146 side by side? (and maybe both next to either a modern 146 or a 244--the only other MB models I have).

Reading around, I've gotten the impression that the celluloid 144 and cell. 146 are pretty close in size--does this sound right to people?

Thank you!

Chris

tandaina
January 6th, 2014, 09:33 AM
I don't have an old 146, but have a 144. If the 146 was the same (or close) to the same size it would have been much, MUCH smaller than today's 146. The 144 is a lovely dainty pen.

cnjackson
January 6th, 2014, 09:44 AM
Thanks, Tandaina--

From what I gather, the old 146 is a bit smaller than the modern 146...but that may not affect your point.

How do you like your 144?

Chris

tandaina
January 6th, 2014, 10:10 AM
I love my 144. Perfect size (I like small pens), perfectly balanced. Mine has a wartime steel nib, but 50's gold nibs are wonderful.

jar
January 6th, 2014, 10:21 AM
Maybe these will help:


On right: 149, 70s 146, vintage 146.

http://www.fototime.com/C7697AAA46FD813/large.jpg

149, 70s 146, modern 144, 12, 121, 342, 264

http://www.fototime.com/501681D139C9E4B/large.jpg

144, 254, 264

http://www.fototime.com/E632794B5D2EB5A/large.jpg

cnjackson
January 6th, 2014, 12:07 PM
Thanks for these pictures, Jar!

They help me start to get a sense of the size difference between the old 144 and the old 146.

I wish I could try them both!

Chris

farmdogfan
January 6th, 2014, 02:43 PM
An early sixties 149 an early fifties 146 and a late fifties 144.

piscov
January 6th, 2014, 03:11 PM
1950´s celluloid Montblanc Meisterstuck side by side all sizes from my collection.

Hope it helps

Regards

Vasco

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31730936/Material%20posto%20nos%20foruns/Mini%20collections/IMG_0615.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31730936/Material%20posto%20nos%20foruns/Mini%20collections/IMG_0616.JPG

orfew
January 6th, 2014, 03:19 PM
1950´s celluloid Montblanc Meisterstuck side by side all sizes from my collection.

Hope it helps

Regards

Vasco

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31730936/Material%20posto%20nos%20foruns/Mini%20collections/IMG_0615.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31730936/Material%20posto%20nos%20foruns/Mini%20collections/IMG_0616.JPG

Very nice photos Piscov. Thanks for sharing those.

cnjackson
January 6th, 2014, 06:32 PM
Farmdogfan--this is a perfect picture--of lovely pens. I am envious! It also seems to show what I've read--that the 144 and the 146 are pretty close in size. Maybe a couple of mm shorter, and just a touch less girth. Does that capture your experience of the pens?

Thank you for posting this image!

Chris

cnjackson
January 6th, 2014, 06:35 PM
Piscov--these pictures are wonderful--and also envy-producing! And they are very helpful. Again, the difference between the 144 and 146--at least in pictures--seems quite small. Do you find that they feel very different in the hand?

Thanks very much for your help with my inquiry!

Chris

cnjackson
January 6th, 2014, 08:04 PM
It's probably clear, but I am starting to look around for an old 144 or 146, and I am trying to decide (sight unseen) if the 144 will be right for me, or if the pricier 146 will be "necessary."

Thanks again for everyone's help. And any additional insights will be very welcome!

Chris

tandaina
January 6th, 2014, 08:34 PM
I honestly think you'd love the 144. I really, really think it is in a mythical "sweet spot." Perfect size, weight, balance. That pen is just amazing. I'm sure the 146 would be just as wonderful, but I'd start with the 144 (you'll want one anyway). Get it, love it, use it. They can be had under $200 if you really keep your eyes peeled. Worth every $. You can't have mine. ;)

This thread reminds me I really want to find a 142, and I want another 144 with a gold nib to go with my steel nibbed version...

jar
January 6th, 2014, 08:55 PM
It's probably clear, but I am starting to look around for an old 144 or 146, and I am trying to decide (sight unseen) if the 144 will be right for me, or if the pricier 146 will be "necessary."

Thanks again for everyone's help. And any additional insights will be very welcome!

Chris

I like the vintage xx4 size pens. Maybe this will also help. Here are a couple 234½ pens, a 144 and a Pelikan M400 side-by-side.

http://www.fototime.com/03A653AD3848455/large.jpg

cnjackson
January 6th, 2014, 09:25 PM
Under $200! I haven't seen prices anything like that. Did you find yours on ebay?

I really do like the 144--and, as you say, it might be the place to start...

cnjackson
January 6th, 2014, 09:29 PM
The 234.5 with the Luxury clip is one of my favorite pens to look at! What a beauty! It's also interesting to see that the 144 is about the same size as the Pelikan M400. I don't own one, but I have handled one--it was very nice.

So--more and more I think the 144 may do the trick for me (for now...).

Thanks again!

Chris

sunnerd
January 9th, 2014, 04:54 AM
From top to bottom - 172 grey striated pencil, 146 green striated, 144 grey straited, 142 grey striated.
The 146 and 144 have very similar barrel length, the 146 has longer cap, but for 142 vs 144, cap length very similar, 142 barrel is shorter than 144 barrel.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11852922814_d9457cd513_z.jpg

cnjackson
January 9th, 2014, 11:56 AM
Hi Sunnerd,

Oh my gosh! Those are some beautiful pens!

This is also very helpful for me in evaluating the size differences between the 144 and 146. It's interesting that, as you say, the barrels are the same length. There is a clear difference in girth, but it does not seem an immense difference.

As I wrote in my last post, while I would prefer the 146, the 144 looks to be a wonderful size, too, for everyday writing--and probably where I will start.

Do you find the 144 comfortable to write with (posted or not?)?

Thank you,

Chris

tandaina
January 9th, 2014, 12:17 PM
From top to bottom - 172 grey striated pencil, 146 green striated, 144 grey straited, 142 grey striated.
The 146 and 144 have very similar barrel length, the 146 has longer cap, but for 142 vs 144, cap length very similar, 142 barrel is shorter than 144 barrel.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11852922814_d9457cd513_z.jpg

Aaaand I'm now insanely jealous. :P

da vinci
January 9th, 2014, 03:30 PM
I honestly think you'd love the 144. I really, really think it is in a mythical "sweet spot." Perfect size, weight, balance. That pen is just amazing. I'm sure the 146 would be just as wonderful, but I'd start with the 144 (you'll want one anyway). Get it, love it, use it. They can be had under $200 if you really keep your eyes peeled. Worth every $. You can't have mine.

I couldnt agree more! :)

cnjackson
January 9th, 2014, 04:36 PM
Thanks, Da Vinci! do you have and like an old 144? What have you enjoyed about it? I'm always glad to read the testimony of others!

Chris

Tony Rex
January 10th, 2014, 12:24 AM
Thanks, Da Vinci! do you have and like an old 144? What have you enjoyed about it? I'm always glad to read the testimony of others!

Chris

And you weren't kidding.

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/245117-the-pelikan-m800-its-great-reputation/

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/256162-curious-about-pelikan-100-or-100n/

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/217197-need-advice-on-a-pelikan-m205-white/

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/245336-request-for-writing-samples-for-m800805-bb-and-3b-nibs/

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/250075-pelikan-pen-rests-where-to-find-them/

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/232139-help-with-nib-width-please/

That's from Pelikan forum alone, with no follow up other than small talk. I'm sorry but it's bordering disrespect on the genuine replies you have received. I know it's a public forum you can talk whatever you like and I can look away if I don't like. And all that shit you gave me on FPN.

This is just not on.

cnjackson
January 10th, 2014, 03:01 PM
Whoa--not sure I follow this? Are you suggesting I've been hostile or disrespectful to you (or anyone)? Please explain.

Chris

Tony Rex
January 10th, 2014, 07:10 PM
If you have to ask, I see no point of me explaining things.. But let's see

You've been curious about a lot of things and make threads for each.

You bumped those threads with pointless small talk, yet never gave any follow up on your decision.

When asked about it you gave the old "it's a free country, look away"

Well, this is a free-er country. I'm simply calling you out, are you a tyre kicker Chris?

tandaina
January 10th, 2014, 07:50 PM
Nothing wrong with kicking tires! I'm not sure why this is an issue for anyone? For many of us on limited pen budgets a lot of questioning and planning happens before diving into a purchase. If in the end we decide not to go forward with something, or it takes us two years to find it at the price limit we've set that's that individuals business and no skin off anyone else's nose! (And leaves no immediate interesting "follow up" to these sorts of threads.

I quite enjoy these threads, if a person doesn't they are easy to close and go read something else. I mean, lovely pictures of pens, how bad could that be??

Tony Rex
January 10th, 2014, 08:41 PM
Just a picture from Chris one of those pens mentioned above and a "how you like them apples, Tony Rex!" Should suffice to prove me wrong and humiliate the douchebag I've been. And obviously, I will offer my sincere apology.

But until then, I still question Chris' method (http://www.smh.com.au/small-business/how-to-deal-with-tyre-kickers-20130327-2gtef.html) of decision making.

ilangai
January 11th, 2014, 12:31 AM
The main reason I left FPN (and even bigger reason I couldn't find myself writing there often) is replies like these..
For most of us, considering buying a pen is not a simple decision, let it go.

cnjackson
January 11th, 2014, 01:05 AM
If you have to ask, I see no point of me explaining things.. But let's see

You've been curious about a lot of things and make threads for each.

You bumped those threads with pointless small talk, yet never gave any follow up on your decision.

When asked about it you gave the old "it's a free country, look away"

Well, this is a free-er country. I'm simply calling you out, are you a tyre kicker Chris?


Hi Tony Rex--

I have to admit that I was surprised and confused by your earlier message. But I gather that you are accusing me of of being a troll, and of not holding up my responsibilities as a good and civil member of FPN and of this forum. I think you are accusing me of imposing on the other members of these forums with my questions and "small talk" (not sure what you are referring to). And, I believe, you are accusing me of churlishly ignoring questions about my decisions on pens I asked about (I would have happily answered any question I saw).

While I regard your tone and accusations as galling and insulting, the thought that I have been somehow disrespectful toward our fountain pen communities troubles me enough to rise to your bait. One of the things I value most about FPN and the FPGeeks forum is that they are friendly spaces in which to explore and talk and learn about fountain pens. I have learned a lot, and I would be upset to think that I was not being a good citizen of these communities. So: let me try to upload an image of the pens that I have managed to purchase with the help of the kinds threads that bother you. (I'm afraid my camera is not very good, and I don't have much light here--it's late.)

8681

These pens are mostly familiar, I think: a Pelikan 140 (F), MB 146 (M?), Pelikan M805 (B), Monte Rosa 042 (OM), MB 244 (B).

The Pelikan 140 was my first fountain pen purchase beyond a Lamy Safari (and a Parker 75 I had been gifted years ago for my high school graduation). I had been considering a modern Pelikan (M205, I think), but ended up purchasing the vintage 140 thanks to input from Bo Bo Olsen. The MB 146 I bought used from the DC Pen Show in 2012: it was my first quite expensive (for me) pen. It was with the great help of many FPN members that I felt equipped to make that purchase. The Pelikan M805 came about a year later, and was also chosen thanks to lots of insight and enjoyable discussion on the forums. More recently, I have become interested in vintage MBs--and so, yes, I have started some threads to help me explore this more arcane (for me) sphere of pens. One fruit of this exploration was the Monte Rosa; another was the 244, which I have had for some time, but only recently had worked on by Mike Massuyama. Right now, the pens I use most are the Pelikan M805 and the two vintage MBs, which I love--hence my exploration here of the old celluloid 144 and 146, either of which would be substantial outlays for me.

OK--I hope that the above answers your call. Now I'd like to respond to you more generally.

Your posts above, if I understand them correctly, carry assumptions I do not share. You seem to assume that the (only?) legitimate way to conduct a thread of inquiry (like those of mine that you link to) is to conclude them with either a declaration of purchase or a declaration of the decision not to purchase. But often the decision--if there is one--comes long after a thread has petered out. Moreover, you imply that sincere thanks for the insights shared is an inadequate response. I believe that I have been scrupulous in expressing gratitude for the insights that others have shared. I am honestly grateful. I'm not sure that why this would be inadequate.

I do reject your comparison of me to one of the tire kickers described in the article you posted. By posting that article, you imply that our forums and the forum members are analogous to money-making businesses, who depend on the good faith purchases of customers to survive. And you suggest that I am analogous to a customer who abuses those businesses. But this is a false comparison: as I understand it, the forums are not business places and I am not a customer of what the forums' members are selling. A more apt metaphor is that of a conversation--which each of us can enter and leave as we see fit.

Finally, allow me to observe that while you accuse me of disrespect for the members of our community, you grant yourself the license to call me a "tyre kicker" (by which you mean a "leech," which is a slur); to suggest without warrant that I have insulted you personally ("And all that shit you gave me on FPN"); and to address me with contemptuous condescension ("If you have to ask, I see no point of me explaining things.. But let's see"). And you expressed these dissatisfactions without first, so far as I can tell, addressing me more openly and less aggressively.

Chris

Tony Rex
January 11th, 2014, 02:22 AM
Chris, I am humbly apologise. I am sorry for those strong words I've said above and in no way you deserve it. There's no if nor but in my apology, my fault and my grievous fault to accuse you.

I was just pissed when threads full nice pics got bumped down by new threads that belong in the First Stop in the first place, that's all. And because of sub-forum crapping by some, just for the "first spot" from the mainpage. There, I also have my reasons for participating less on FPN.

Friends?

piscov
January 11th, 2014, 02:38 AM
Noble gesture Tony!

Lets put this behind. All of us make mistakes, only the noble ones apologize and accept apologies. I am sure Chris will accept this sincere gesture with the same nobility.

piscov
January 11th, 2014, 02:58 AM
Piscov--these pictures are wonderful--and also envy-producing! And they are very helpful. Again, the difference between the 144 and 146--at least in pictures--seems quite small. Do you find that they feel very different in the hand?

Thanks very much for your help with my inquiry!

Chris

Sorry for taking so much to reply to you.
Yes, I feel a big difference in those too sizes, but that does not mean I don't like using a 144. I do however prefer the 146 size as it feels more comfortable in my hands.

On weigh ( I am very sensitive to weight in a pen and I do prefer a heavier pen) the difference is not very big, but again I prefer the 146.

If like most f us you have a limited budget a 144 is in fact an excellent entry 14X series pen for someone that has not tested a vintage 14X MB as it will allow you to experience the writing quality of both pen and nib while saving some money. Later if you decide to go for the 146 you can sell it without loosing value and invest a bit more and get the bigger sister.

By the way, I notice you have a modern 146, IMHO that pen is not a good comparison to a vintage one, It is lighter, bigger, the nib is miles away from the vintage one and the celluloid feel is much more warm in the hand than the Precious resist that should not be more than a modern acrylic mutation named by a creative MB marketeer.

cnjackson
January 11th, 2014, 11:34 AM
Chris, I am humbly apologise. I am sorry for those strong words I've said above and in no way you deserve it. There's no if nor but in my apology, my fault and my grievous fault to accuse you.

I was just pissed when threads full nice pics got bumped down by new threads that belong in the First Stop in the first place, that's all. And because of sub-forum crapping by some, just for the "first spot" from the mainpage. There, I also have my reasons for participating less on FPN.

Friends?

Tony Rex,

I accept your apology.

Thank you.

Chris

cnjackson
January 11th, 2014, 11:43 AM
Sorry for taking so much to reply to you.
Yes, I feel a big difference in those too sizes, but that does not mean I don't like using a 144. I do however prefer the 146 size as it feels more comfortable in my hands.

On weigh ( I am very sensitive to weight in a pen and I do prefer a heavier pen) the difference is not very big, but again I prefer the 146.

If like most f us you have a limited budget a 144 is in fact an excellent entry 14X series pen for someone that has not tested a vintage 14X MB as it will allow you to experience the writing quality of both pen and nib while saving some money. Later if you decide to go for the 146 you can sell it without loosing value and invest a bit more and get the bigger sister.

By the way, I notice you have a modern 146, IMHO that pen is not a good comparison to a vintage one, It is lighter, bigger, the nib is miles away from the vintage one and the celluloid feel is much more warm in the hand than the Precious resist that should not be more than a modern acrylic mutation named by a creative MB marketeer.

Dear Piscov--Thank you for this reply! My gut tells me that I will prefer the size of the celluloid 146, too. But I also very much like the smaller size of my Monte Rosa and the 244. But what you say about starting with the 144 makes a lot of sense to me. I had not thought to consider the idea of reselling the 144 to move on the the 146 on day. (Indeed, my pen budget is limited!) As I wrote earlier in the thread, more and more I am leaning toward starting with a 144. Your post makes me feel even more confident about that!

Thank you, too, for describing some of the differences between a modern 146 (like mine) and the older, celluloid models. I have heard and read so much about the feel of the celluloid--and I am very curious to try it. Everyone seems to prefer it!

Thanks again for your insights!

Chris

tandaina
January 11th, 2014, 12:40 PM
Yay! You have a 244! I have two of them I love that pen so much. :) If you like your 244, you will adore a 144. :)

CS388
January 12th, 2014, 08:28 AM
Just to back up piscov's excellent observations:

I, too, was surprised at the size difference between the modern 146 and the celluloid 146. (Celluloid significantly smaller)
I was also surprised at how close it is in size, to the celluloid 144.
Just taken a couple of phone snaps to illustrate that. (144 on the left)
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af351/shoulderhead/144146_zps78104c16.jpg
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af351/shoulderhead/144146uncapped_zpsf41d922c.jpg
(144 above 146)

The two things that stand them apart, for me, are the nib size and the girth. The 146 feels significantly fatter in the hand. I'm not sure of the advantages of a larger nib, but I do enjoy the feel of it more. (There's probably a sentimental/romantic effect, too: I'd wanted a celluloid 146 for years before I could find a suitably priced one, so that may be an influence, too!)

All that being said, the 144 is still one of my most used pens and has one of the most responsive nibs of all my pens.
During heavy writing sessions, in which I'm using many pens, I'll often pick up the 144 and mistake it for the 146, or vice versa. The only way I can quickly differentiate is that they have different feeds (My eyesight isn't good enough to read the knob markings without magnification!)

As others have said, you'll probably end up with both eventually.
But the sooner, the better. The prices of these older Meisterstucks are climbing rapidly!

Finally, I did exactly what you did. I started many posts (on FPN) during my search. Probably shot myself in the foot a few times, by sharing my ebay finds and being outbid, but worth it in the end. I have to do this, because these are significant purchases to a man of my means and I cannot afford (financially) to buy on a whim and hope for the best.

Good luck in your quest.

cnjackson
January 12th, 2014, 06:23 PM
Hi Tandaina! I like my 244, too! I'll take some pix of mine tomorrow (I hope) and post them here. It sounds like you love your 144 even more--you are just stoking my curiosity (desire!). What size nibs do you have on your two pens?

Chris

cnjackson
January 12th, 2014, 06:34 PM
Dear CS388--thank you for this post! I appreciate all of your reflections and honesty and the beautiful images. Wow--these celluloid MBs have really taken hold of my imagination. Your two pens look like they are real and elegant tools of your work.

Your pictures really do show both the similar size between the 144 and the 146, but also the difference in girth that you write about. I like that you write with both pens in a single writing session.

I appreciate your advice about buying sooner rather than later: I've gathered that the prices are going up quickly. But I similarly can't just lay down the funds for either without some research, saving, and price checking--and general feeling things out.

Finally, thanks very much for your note about starting threads to ask questions. It is the only way I know how to enter into these kinds of decisions. I look forward to going back to FPN and look your threads up to try to learn from them, too.

Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts and images of your beautiful pens!

Chris

tandaina
January 12th, 2014, 08:04 PM
Hi Tandaina! I like my 244, too! I'll take some pix of mine tomorrow (I hope) and post them here. It sounds like you love your 144 even more--you are just stoking my curiosity (desire!). What size nibs do you have on your two pens?

Chris

I have an M (flex) in one 244, and an OBB (flex). The OBB is heaven on earth. The M is yummy as well, but I prefer obliques.

My 144 has a BB!

da vinci
January 13th, 2014, 03:37 PM
Thanks, Da Vinci! do you have and like an old 144? What have you enjoyed about it? I'm always glad to read the testimony of others!

Chris

Sorry for the delay in replying.

I have a 145 Chopin with a M nib and a 144 BB nib.

They are both excellent writers and very smooth.

The BB nib is a particular favourite. The BB is not too wide yet gives excellent line variation.

I dont think the 144 is "vintage". My enjoyment derives from the nib, the practicality of the pen as an EDC and the size of the pen fitting comfortably in my hand.

I have a 146 and a 149. The 144/5 win each time, mainly due to size, but also because I am one of the few (?) people who is quite content with a C/C filler as opposed to a piston filler I suspect (secretly).

sunnerd
September 12th, 2014, 01:43 PM
Do you find the 144 comfortable to write with (posted or not?)?


Thanks Chris, I don't post my pens and on vintage pens it's a no-no. I have found the 146 most comfy for my usage, compared to 144. There is a minute girth difference between 144 and 146 but that's enough for me to tilt towards the 146.