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rdcalhoon
January 29th, 2014, 07:15 PM
I had to see for myself if Moleskine paper was as fountain pen unfriendly as folks claimed.
I used a 40% off coupon to buy a three pack of soft cover, 7-1/2 by 10 inch, 120 page notebooks to test.
I wrote with a Lamy Vista broad nib, with Diamine Lavender ink.

Now I believe the stories. With some care and a good sample of my handwriting you could probably decipher most of the text from the bleed through.

9387

The first page was supposed to be an index page. Now I'll have to relocate the index to the back page.
The only writing on this side of the page is at the top

For the bottom four lines I rolled the pen over and used the top side of the nib which writes more or less as a fine.That worked much better, but there are still the occasional break throughs.

Tony Rex
January 29th, 2014, 07:36 PM
Thank you for sharing your findings. I really do appreciate people who post their own answers rather than relying on statistics. For us Aussies there's no point of buying Moleskine put up with paper inconsistency, while Picadilly notebooks are available at Woolies for a fraction of the price.

Jon Szanto
January 29th, 2014, 07:50 PM
I've never understood the fandom for these products, as well as those from Rhodia. In my experience, they've just been over-priced smear/bleed templates. Such is life, and I've found my own other items.

erpe
January 29th, 2014, 09:24 PM
This is very bad but I use Moleskines all the time, with fountain pens and have no problems. The thing is that you have to limit yourself to certain pen/ink combinations and Diamine fails everytime with any pen I tried. KaWeCo, Waterman and certain Chinese pens with Pelikan or Parker blueblack for example work perfectly which accidentally is one of my favorites anyway. As for the popularity of the brand, they have a well oiled, lifestyle oriented marketing machine and in some regions even their own stores. That makes it widely available to people who are susceptible to this and the majority of those people are not FP users. It's a bit like certain fast-food chains. We all know it's no good but we still go there because they are everywhere. There are better alternatives like the mentioned Rhodia but also Clairefontine or Oxford and the FP user knows where to get those in time.
Why do i use Moleskine then? I wanted a specific Sonnet in a unique finish from an "out of business" sale and that was among other things in a box that also contained 36 Moleskines. The auctioneer told me to buy the box or go away :)

ethernautrix
January 30th, 2014, 03:51 AM
I use Western EF and Japanese F nibs and Noodler's Black (and other colors, other inks, but I test which inks won't bleed through before I write a page with them), and I can write on both sides of Moleskine paper. I use a variety of notebook brands, so I'm not a Moleskine fangirl. But I like them, and I don't have such problems with the paper -- as long as I don't want to use just any ink with just any pen. Which is not a problem for me.

When people find a tool they like using - whether notebook, pen, or ink - they tend to be enthusiastic about it and stick to using those products. I don't think it's unusual. Me, I prefer to spend less on notebooks, since I fill them up so quickly - and not much of it worth keeping (a lot of minutiae).

An aside: There are websites that show how people have used their Moleskine notebooks, and I've loved seeing the drawings and writing in them, been inspired to be less persnickety about how I write in a notebook (trying to be neat, trying to keep my handwriting uniform). Being messy on the page is great!

carlos.q
January 30th, 2014, 04:00 AM
I tried Moleskine once and was barely able to use it with a fine nib and Noodlers black. For other Moleskine friendly inks you can check out this blog: http://inkyjournal.blogspot.com/

Sailor Kenshin
January 30th, 2014, 05:37 AM
I use Western EF and Japanese F nibs and Noodler's Black (and other colors, other inks, but I test which inks won't bleed through before I write a page with them), and I can write on both sides of Moleskine paper. I use a variety of notebook brands, so I'm not a Moleskine fangirl. But I like them, and I don't have such problems with the paper -- as long as I don't want to use just any ink with just any pen. Which is not a problem for me.

When people find a tool they like using - whether notebook, pen, or ink - they tend to be enthusiastic about it and stick to using those products. I don't think it's unusual. Me, I prefer to spend less on notebooks, since I fill them up so quickly - and not much of it worth keeping (a lot of minutiae).

An aside: There are websites that show how people have used their Moleskine notebooks, and I've loved seeing the drawings and writing in them, been inspired to be less persnickety about how I write in a notebook (trying to be neat, trying to keep my handwriting uniform). Being messy on the page is great!

Where, where? I'd love to see!

I have, like, four Moles. Two are pocket-sized and just fine. The other two are mid-size and haven't come out of their shrink-wrap yet.

I'm a Bagasse and India-paper fan. But I don't hate Moleskine, just don't have many.

erpe
January 30th, 2014, 06:40 AM
I have, like, four Moles. Two are pocket-sized and just fine. The other two are mid-size and haven't come out of their shrink-wrap yet.

:stop: Be careful there, the Pockets are 192 pages, these are usable with some pen/ink combinations as I mentioned, the mid-sized might be the so called Large (with 13x21 cm slightly smaller than A5 size) of the 240 page variation. This paper is even thinner and already has difficulties (serious show-through) with regular gel pens like the famous Uniball 207 which is widely regarded as the standard Moleskine pen, only use these with Ballpoint.
In general, for full enjoyment of all fountain pens and inks, maybe Moleskine is not the way to go.

Sailor Kenshin
January 30th, 2014, 07:29 AM
I have, like, four Moles. Two are pocket-sized and just fine. The other two are mid-size and haven't come out of their shrink-wrap yet.

:stop: Be careful there, the Pockets are 192 pages, these are usable with some pen/ink combinations as I mentioned, the mid-sized might be the so called Large (with 13x21 cm slightly smaller than A5 size) of the 240 page variation. This paper is even thinner and already has difficulties (serious show-through) with regular gel pens like the famous Uniball 207 which is widely regarded as the standard Moleskine pen, only use these with Ballpoint.
In general, for full enjoyment of all fountain pens and inks, maybe Moleskine is not the way to go.

No, these are the size of Field Notes. They fit in your pocket. No way do they contain 192 pages.

The others, I can't reach them now but they're in the vicinity of 5 x 7 inches, and I don't recall how many pages. If I break them out of the wrapping I'll see how they work with my fps. Thanks.

erpe
January 30th, 2014, 07:46 AM
These are the so called cahiers with 96 pages, they have the same paper as the Pockets, will be ok with the mentioned limitations.

ethernautrix
January 30th, 2014, 08:30 AM
Hey, Sailor K.

I didn't have any sites bookmarked, so I asked Google and here are some results you might find interesting, including a couple from flickr:

Moleskinerie (http://www.moleskinerie.com/)
Sketching With A Moleskine (http://www.stutler.cc/sketching/articles/moleskine.html)
The Official Moleskine Website (http://www.moleskine.com/en/)
75 Exceptional Moleskine Notebook Artworks (http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2011/02/75-exceptional-moleskine-notebook-artworks/)
Me and My Moleskine (http://www.simplymoleskine.com/page/Me%20and%20My%20Moleskine)
Flickr Moleskinerie Group (http://www.flickr.com/groups/moleskinerie/)
Flickr, The NEW Moleskine Group (http://www.flickr.com/groups/2275726@N20/)

Interesting that there are discussions about the quality of Moleskine paper in the flickr groups. Maybe not "interesting"; more like "inevitable."

This post has reminded me to check out other people's Moleskines. Hahaha. I believe there are similar groups for other notebook brands.

Sailor Kenshin
January 30th, 2014, 09:22 AM
Many thanks! I love looking at other people's notebooks, too. Very inspirational!

rdcalhoon
January 30th, 2014, 10:43 AM
I appreciate all your thoughts. It is interesting to see the different ways people approach the interaction of ink and paper.

I may be branded as inconsistent, but I've been happily using Field Notes for a while. The same combo bleeds through there also, but I always use fine nibs in my Field Notes since the pages are small and I am mostly making quick notes. I did just purchase some Scout Books, which are reputed to handle fountain pens better.

The bigger journal has two purposes for me. I recently started a project of writing 1000 words a day, so I need a larger format. I also use a different pen/nib/ink combo each day. This way I can get to know the combos better and see the effect of a full page written out.

For these purposes I need a book that can handle anything I choose to try, rather than restricting myself to a few inks and fine nibs only.

My first notebook was a Black n' Red, which never bled through with the combinations I used. There the problem is slow drying. If I get on a rip and am burning through the pages I can get the page turned before it is dry, so some will tranfer to the opposite page.

I'll find some other use for the other two Moleskines and cast around for another brand to try next. I'll go back to Black n' Red happily enough. I'll entertain other suggestions, but remember that they should be moderately priced: for this purpose I need working journals, not showpieces of art. I am writing sentences, not letter by letter, if you get the distinction.

Sailor Kenshin
January 30th, 2014, 11:35 AM
Hey, Sailor K.

I didn't have any sites bookmarked, so I asked Google and here are some results you might find interesting, including a couple from flickr:

Moleskinerie (http://www.moleskinerie.com/)
Sketching With A Moleskine (http://www.stutler.cc/sketching/articles/moleskine.html)
The Official Moleskine Website (http://www.moleskine.com/en/)
75 Exceptional Moleskine Notebook Artworks (http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2011/02/75-exceptional-moleskine-notebook-artworks/)
Me and My Moleskine (http://www.simplymoleskine.com/page/Me%20and%20My%20Moleskine)
Flickr Moleskinerie Group (http://www.flickr.com/groups/moleskinerie/)
Flickr, The NEW Moleskine Group (http://www.flickr.com/groups/2275726@N20/)

Interesting that there are discussions about the quality of Moleskine paper in the flickr groups. Maybe not "interesting"; more like "inevitable."

This post has reminded me to check out other people's Moleskines. Hahaha. I believe there are similar groups for other notebook brands.

Okay, it's official: I want a watercolor-type Moleskine!

Robert
January 30th, 2014, 05:02 PM
Thanks so much for the post and pics, rdcalhoon. In this case seeing is believing, and if I ever had any ideas about trying Moleskin . . . . not any longer.

VertOlive
January 30th, 2014, 05:30 PM
The heppest cat I know swears by Moleskines. But he wouldn't know a fountain pen from the Trevi Fountain. He uses anything that comes to hand when he feels the need to write...

Cookies
January 30th, 2014, 09:04 PM
I use Western EF and Japanese F nibs and Noodler's Black (and other colors, other inks, but I test which inks won't bleed through before I write a page with them), and I can write on both sides of Moleskine paper. I use a variety of notebook brands, so I'm not a Moleskine fangirl. But I like them, and I don't have such problems with the paper -- as long as I don't want to use just any ink with just any pen. Which is not a problem for me.

When people find a tool they like using - whether notebook, pen, or ink - they tend to be enthusiastic about it and stick to using those products. I don't think it's unusual. Me, I prefer to spend less on notebooks, since I fill them up so quickly - and not much of it worth keeping (a lot of minutiae).

An aside: There are websites that show how people have used their Moleskine notebooks, and I've loved seeing the drawings and writing in them, been inspired to be less persnickety about how I write in a notebook (trying to be neat, trying to keep my handwriting uniform). Being messy on the page is great!

Where, where? I'd love to see!

I have, like, four Moles. Two are pocket-sized and just fine. The other two are mid-size and haven't come out of their shrink-wrap yet.

I'm a Bagasse and India-paper fan. But I don't hate Moleskine, just don't have many.

There are a couple good ones on tumblr as well

Moleskine (http://www.tumblr.com/search/moleskine) tag
FYeahMoleskine (http://fuckyeahmoleskines.tumblr.com) (nsfw title) blog
MoleskineLovers (http://moleskinelovers.tumblr.com) blog

Dreck
January 30th, 2014, 09:42 PM
The heppest cat I know swears by Moleskines. But he wouldn't know a fountain pen from the Trevi Fountain. He uses anything that comes to hand when he feels the need to write...

Is he a hoopy frood who really knows where his towel is?

velo
January 30th, 2014, 11:30 PM
The cahiers work fine with my fountain pens. The more expensive notebook however I have to be careful with pen/ink.

drgoretex
February 1st, 2014, 08:31 AM
I have several Moleskines on the go, as well as a few others (Rhodia, Clairefontaine etc), and while it is clear and obvious that the risk of showthrough is higher, I have found that certain pen and ink combos (drier pens, 'better behaved' inks) work better on my Moleskines than on my higher grade paper. Nice just to have a good variety.

Ken

79spitfire
February 8th, 2014, 10:47 PM
I have one of the sketching Moleskines, and due to the thicker paper there is no bleedthrough. I specifically got it for doodling.

The paper is substantially thicker, and there are fewer pages. I wish I had bought more, as they were on a clearance sale http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10172/hit_head.gif (http://www.smileyvault.com/)

Jolltax
March 12th, 2014, 01:18 PM
I bought the Moleskine (Soft Large Plain - Moleskine Classic) notebook from Waterstones at £13.99. This was before I had done my research (!). I won't make the same mistake again, horrible bleed through with even moderately wet pens plus the leather cover is breaking away from its lining and looks a mess after less than 1 week. AVOID!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e352/Jolltax/IMG_20140310_213203_zpse96f4f52.jpg


My fault for not doing my research.

Jolltax

Titivillus
March 12th, 2014, 02:00 PM
This is hte biggest problem with Moleskine in that there is such a wide variability. I found that the earlier pocket versions that were not made in china have better quality paper and is why I purchased about a dozen of them over time from a local store. I'm using the calendar that was junk with some FPs except my fine 51. I like the form and have tried other replacements and just didn't like them.

bec11mort
March 12th, 2014, 02:09 PM
There's definitely a lot of variability with Moleskine paper. I have a large collection of Moleskines (mostly from before I used fountain pens exclusively) and while some of them can't handle double-sided writing, even with a dry ink an EF nib, others can. I have a few of the large format with grid lines that can handle even the wettest inks with no problem.

Mags
March 12th, 2014, 06:08 PM
They did produce a limited edition with thicker paper a bit glossy and stitched paper. It was almost a univ journal and red hard cover. $30 and no longer available. I wish I had 10 more.

erpe
March 12th, 2014, 09:38 PM
I bought the Moleskine (Soft Large Plain - Moleskine Classic) notebook from Waterstones at £13.99. This was before I had done my research (!). I won't make the same mistake again, horrible bleed through with even moderately wet pens plus the leather cover is breaking away from its lining and looks a mess after less than 1 week. AVOID!


Is this a 240 page version? This paper is even thinner than the regular pocket (192 pages). The 240 version even has trouble with the widely advised gelpens like Uniball 207 and Pilot G2. I use this one only with ballpoint (Parker).

Jolltax
March 13th, 2014, 04:35 AM
Is this a 240 page version? This paper is even thinner than the regular pocket (192 pages). The 240 version even has trouble with the widely advised gelpens like Uniball 207 and Pilot G2. I use this one only with ballpoint (Parker).

I am pretty sure its the 192 page version, I can;t really find anything to properly identify it. I have updated my post above with a photo and here is a quick snap of the outside cover in case anyone can identify it better than me!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e352/Jolltax/IMG_20140313_095146_zpscffaa87c.jpg

sharmon202
March 30th, 2014, 05:51 PM
What kids of things do you write for the 1000 words a day? How many pages is 1000 words a day?

sharmon202
March 30th, 2014, 05:54 PM
What other items have you found? I have had not problems with Rhodia and other more pricey paper but would love to find an equivalent for less moola.