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View Full Version : Interesting Pelikan Issue: need advice



brewsky
March 1st, 2014, 03:20 PM
recently received a NOS m100 form the 80's shipped in from Istanbul.

long story short, it drips pretty badly.

It only happens when i have been writing with it for a few minutes or more.

Things i have done:
re-grease piston twice with silicon grease
clean out nib and silicon grease on the threads of the nib unit
refill the pen without filling it all the way up.
tried multiple types of ink

Now, i messaged sargetalon about my issue, and i am seeking further input. We conclude that it must be the piston is not functioning properly. As of now (after greasing the piston twice with silicon grease), the piston 'sticks' when i spin the mechanism at the end of the pen.


Is there a way to take out and inspect the piston on this pen? It is a gift for someone close to me, and their birthday is coming up in April so i would like to get this issue solved quickly, or else i am going to have to buy them a body and use just the nib.

jar
March 1st, 2014, 03:37 PM
You have an air leak. You need to find our where that air leak is hiding.

Jeph
March 1st, 2014, 03:45 PM
I assume that it drips from the nib.
I agree with Jar. And, unfortunately, I suspect that the air leak is from a crack at the back of the barrel at the filler knob.
If you have greased the piston (as opposed to the seal), you have had the piston out. If you have a bore light, shine a bright light into the end of the barrel and look for a crack. Look for lines running along the length of the barrel. It only needs to be about 1/4 inch long.
You also might have a nib unit collar crack. There are other possibilities but they are much less common.
I was looking at an M100 just today and noticed for the first time that the barrel was cracked just where I mentioned. That is a shame becasue I really like the M100 size as a pocket pen.

Edit to add a picture:
10226

tandaina
March 1st, 2014, 03:56 PM
Grease will only solve so much. If the piston seal has broken down it will leak, if it has just started to break down it might only leak a little bit (like if you shake the pen). Doesn't necessarily mean a crack. If the pen is important, I'd send it to an expert!

brewsky
March 2nd, 2014, 02:02 PM
I assume that it drips from the nib.
I agree with Jar. And, unfortunately, I suspect that the air leak is from a crack at the back of the barrel at the filler knob.
If you have greased the piston (as opposed to the seal), you have had the piston out. If you have a bore light, shine a bright light into the end of the barrel and look for a crack. Look for lines running along the length of the barrel. It only needs to be about 1/4 inch long.
You also might have a nib unit collar crack. There are other possibilities but they are much less common.
I was looking at an M100 just today and noticed for the first time that the barrel was cracked just where I mentioned. That is a shame becasue I really like the M100 size as a pocket pen.

Edit to add a picture:
10226


I have not had the piston out, i have only greased the seal. ( empty the pen use a tooth pick with silicon grease on the pen to coat the top portion of the seal). With that being said, i s there a safe way to remove the piston? i know how to remove the piston from my m101n, but this doesnt look to be threaded at all. The en has zero sentimental value to me, so worst case scenario, ill keep the body and throw the nib on a body i will purchase form richard binder's website.

brewsky
March 2nd, 2014, 02:07 PM
After further inspection, it looks and sounds like the innermost portion of the seal (furtherst away from the nib unit) is not making proper contact. The piston is now "popping" everytime i screw it in or out. How should i proceed? Should i send it off? I wouldnt know where to send it.

tandaina
March 2nd, 2014, 02:22 PM
There are a number of folks who can do that sort of work. Rick of The Penguin Pen is the famous Pelikan person, or Joel Hamilton (http://www.ink-pen.com/) does piston work (he's done for me).

Sounds like the seal has indeed gone, happens eventually. Once fixed it'll likely last another 50 years or so, so worth the work.

brewsky
March 3rd, 2014, 01:44 PM
There are a number of folks who can do that sort of work. Rick of The Penguin Pen is the famous Pelikan person, or Joel Hamilton (http://www.ink-pen.com/) does piston work (he's done for me).

Sounds like the seal has indeed gone, happens eventually. Once fixed it'll likely last another 50 years or so, so worth the work.

Thank you very much for the contact information. I started with joel Hamilton, and will Rick Propas if that does not work out.

Jeph
March 4th, 2014, 12:37 AM
I was going to take one apart and show you last night. I wanted to say that it was friction fit but then I admitted that I don't truly remember. I have only done one M100 and all of them run together. It was easy enough to verify but I got sidetracked and did not do it. I am still pretty sure it is friction fit. If it is, the only real way is to knock the piston unit housing out from the section side. That is not good for the piston. It is not good for the piston housing. It is not good for the barrel. And if some bonehead misadjusted your piston it is not even good for the knob. With the proper tool, a little carefully applied heat in the right place and a confident stroke everything can be knocked out without damage. Usually. So the advice to go to a professional is sound. As I am a hack and not a professional, I know of two that were broken when I finished. I can't say that the damage was not already there, but the act of removal definately could have caused the damage and probably did.

With that said, I doubt that anything is wrong with your seal. If fact, I suspect that the seal is making the popping sound specifically becasue it IS working properly. It is easy enough to test that for yourself. Take the nib unit out, botom the piston, wet your finger and put it firmly over the mouth of the section. Turn the knob to withdraw the piston like you are filling it with ink. The suction will probably hold the pen onto your finger. The strength of the suction (assuming that you have your finger fully covering the hole and don't move it) will tell you the condition of your seal. A full power seal should be able to hold the pen on your finger even if you wiggle it (a little) and should *pop* when you pull your finger off.

Another thing you can do to check for cracks without disassembly is to take the pen, wipe it down with a dry, clean cloth (just to remove the oils from your hands) and put it into a small tub. Check the temperature of the water first to make sure it is cool, then run water from the tap over the pen to mostly fill up the tub. Small bubbles will frequently form along the crack. These bubbles are not air escaping from the inside but the sharp edge provides something for the bubbles in the aerated water to adhere to. Of course, small air bubbles will also form if there are any oils, grime or polish residue on the outside of the pen also. If that happens, wipe the pen down thoroughly and try again.

I still suspect that you have a crack and do not want you to send it off for a seal repalcement when that might not fix it.

Jeph
March 4th, 2014, 09:56 AM
I got off my butt and took one apart and made a picture for you this evening.
They are friction fit. But, unlike the old 400 friction fit piston units, these are what Fountainbel called "pop-in" piston units. That is an apt term. There are vertical splines on both the piston housing and the barrel ID. But the real work gets done by a pair of circumferential rings below the vertical splines on the piston unit. Every time that you knock the assembly out, those rings take damage. Eventually they take too much damage the piston unit does not stay in the barrel properly anymore. And note that due to the vertical splines on both surfaces, attempts to screw out the piston unit will usually result in a cracked barrel before the piston unit ever rotates.

As to the cause of the popping sound, I show that in the second picture. There is a small plastic bushing that seats in the end of the internally threaded shaft that the piston runs within. If this becomes loose, it allows the piston more longitudinal play tooth to tooth. So as you turn the knob, the piston withraws to take up the slack, and then draws the seal after it. That opens up more slack on the next turn and the process continues. So as you turn the knob you get the "pop" "pop" "pop" as the piston is drawn up but it still sucks in ink. I can't say that the play is enough to allow air past the seal as the pen gets knocked around with normal use. I had not though about it before but it could be possible.

I hope that this helps.

1026510266

brewsky
March 4th, 2014, 11:44 AM
Wow, I greatly appreciate the thorough explanation and further steps to take to find the underlying cause. I almost sent the pen out this afternoon, but will do some more tinkering to see if i can find if the seal is working properly and test it for cracks. I am unsure if i feel comfortable removing the piston myself due to the possibility of damaging it. At the same time though, i want to make sure that i am not mis-diagnosing the pen due to my lack of knowledge of the real issue. All i can do at this time is make assumptions. I plan on sending the pen out when i do the water test and finger over piston test. I honestly do not believe the pen to have any cracks. It was in very very mint condition (the nib is the black coated version and there was still black coating on the writing surface of the nib). The barrel looked like it was advertised as being packed away in a box since the 80s. I really hope it is not a barrel crack or else i will probably just have the repair,en return it to me and buy a new white body from Richard binder's website.*