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ndw76
March 9th, 2014, 08:47 AM
I have an ongoing project I'm doing for my daughter. My daughter is two years old and I am keeping a journal all about her. I intend to give this journal to her when she is older,like twenties or thirties. This writing will have to stay legible for many years and to this end I am using a notebook with Clairfontain acid free paper.

I am a person who will impulse buy and then read reviews to justify my impulse. In this manner I recently bought a bottle of Parker Quink Blue Black. The review made me happy about my purchase apart from one thing. It seems that Quink Blue Black tends to fade and this would be unacceptable in my journal project.

So my question is would the acid free paper stop the ink from fading? If not could you recommend an ink that will last for the ages?
Would an iron gall ink be necessary,or just a waterproof ink?

Some info about my preferences , I like browns,dark browns and grey ink. Maybe I could grow to love a black ink. If I used a staining ink I would most probably use it exclusively in a pen that can be completely disassembled, like a Noodler's pen.

Thanks for any advice you could give me.

Wile E Coyote
March 9th, 2014, 09:13 AM
For permanence, try an iron gall based ink. The old Mont Blanc blue-black and midnight blue were IG though the present formulation is not. There was a Lamy blue black that was IG, not sure if the current ink is. There's also Diamine Registrar's Ink and R&K Scabiosa and Salix.

Just do a search for iron gall on Google and you'll even find recipes for making your own.

Mags
March 9th, 2014, 10:03 AM
I don't think you need to use iron gall ink for the journal. Try 54th Massachusetts from Noodlers it dries more black then blue and is water resistant once on cellulose materials and seems water soluable in pens so rinses well.

I like to use Noodlers and Sailor black inks also....they should hold up 30 plus years if the paper does. I checked my older journals now 15-20 yrs old and Osmiroid and Sheaffer greens all held up but were not exposed to light to fade them. They are a tad lighter though.

If you do use a registrars ink try to set aside a pen that is not your best for the task.

The journal sounds like a lovely gift for your daughter that you fill with memories, events and positive suggestions.

shudaizi
March 9th, 2014, 10:05 AM
I can second the old (IG formula) MB Midnight-Blue recommendation -- it's a fantastic ink.

An alternative that isn't discontinued is Platinum Blue-Black (which is really a blue -- very little, if any, "black" in it). It too is an IG ink. I've liked it in every pen I've used it with -- smooth, easy to clean, good (but not excessive) flow. It stays a nice blue, even after oxodizing, which is unusual for an IG ink -- you may like that or dislike it depending on whether you want your IG to change colors or not.

Wile E Coyote
March 9th, 2014, 10:21 AM
What was I thinking?

I completely forgot about my favorite ink...Sailor Kiwa Guro (black). There's also Sailor sei-Boku (blue-black) and Platinum makes pigment inks in black, blue, brown and red.

Jon Szanto
March 9th, 2014, 10:29 AM
For permanence, I turn to Ecclesiastical Stationary Supplies Registrars Ink. It is a British product, you should be able to find it by Googling (I'm on my phone). Great ink to write with, made for permanence, nice change from blue to black. My go-to for that which must last.

ETA: Fired up the computer, so here is a link to ESSRI (http://www.registrarsink.co.uk/about.html).

kia
March 9th, 2014, 11:40 AM
Many of the first Noodler's Inks (black in particular) were designed to be archival as well as fraud proof. They have so many inks now, it's hard to keep up with sometimes. Most are ok to use in any fountain pen, with good maintenance habits (flush and clean now and again). Kung Te Cheng, well that is a really cool ink, but definitely keep it in a dedicated pen, in my opinion. Doesn't stop me from having 5 bottles of it (eh, 4-1/2, I've used half a bottle so far). Brian and Rachel Goulet of Goulet Pen Company came up with a chart that charts all the properties of the current Noodler's Inks generally available (not exclusives to individual retailers) and they posted it on their Noodler's pages. It is here (https://www.gouletpens.com/v/vspfiles/files/noodlers-ink-properties.pdf) (the page scrolls). Noodler's even posted it on their page (but haven't kept it updated like the Goulets have, however).

Since I haven't used any but Noodler's, this is all I can offer. There seem to be a lot of good choices posted here for other inks, though.

Laura N
March 9th, 2014, 01:18 PM
Honestly, I don't think you need to worry about anything. Use the Quink with no fear. The ink will hardly fade in a closed journal. Waterproof ink is helpful for some who work in wet conditions, or where spills may occur, or for uses like envelopes exposed to the elements. If your journal gets so soaked that only waterproof ink would survive, the paper likely would clump together anyway.

I still find things I wrote in the 1980s with Waterman Blue (an expressly washable ink) on ordinary student notebook paper, and those are in perfect condition. Last year I found a notebook in which I had jotted the beginnings of a journal for my son when he was a baby. An ordinary spiral notebook, the same Waterman ink, and also in perfect condition. That was written 16 years ago.

Jeph
March 9th, 2014, 03:14 PM
You have been given some good advice.
But if you want to be extra sure, the only thing I can add is that you could also go in a completely different direction and use true IG ink and a dip pen.
I think some variant of Noodler's would be an easier solution but possibly not as interesting.
I agree that proper storage is probably the most important consideration.

Pendragon
March 9th, 2014, 07:24 PM
Doesn't iron gall ink have an adverse effect on paper over time? If it does, then Noodler's might be a better option. A waterproof ink makes sense in case something is accidentally spilled on the notebook, or if it is ever immersed, such as in a flood.


The old Mont Blanc blue-black and midnight blue were IG though the present formulation is not.
So the currently sold Montblanc blue-black ink is not as permanent as the old? I have a bottle bought some years ago, perhaps it is a good thing I saved it.

Jon Szanto
March 9th, 2014, 08:41 PM
Is it not the case that iron gall inks have been one of the primary formulations for centuries, and have we not documents that have lasted that length of time?

tandaina
March 9th, 2014, 09:02 PM
I think we need to keep time in perspective.

In the archives of our church we have sermons written on whatever paper the rector in the 1860s had to hand with whatever dip pen and ink he had. Now granted it *may* very well be iron gall ink. But the paper is nothing special or archival. It has all be kept from light and stored away where it doesn't get damp and it has endured brilliantly for far longer than the say 50 years that a journal would need to stay pristine. On acid free paper, closed up in a journal I'd expect just about any modern ink to stay perfectly legible at least as long. Exposed to sunlight is a different matter, but that's not likely with a journal!

That paper has yellowed a bit, the ink I'm guessing has changed color, but all is still perfectly legible in his lovely spencarian hand!

raging.dragon
March 9th, 2014, 10:27 PM
Since you like grey and dark brown inks, the first that come to mind are: Noodler's Lexington Gray and #41 Brown (pre-2012). Graf von Faber Castel Stone Grey is also supposed to be waterproof and archival. Moving away from those colours there are: many other Noodler's Eternal, Bulletproof and Warden inks, and the fairly new to the market Montblanc, De Atramentis, and Graf von Faber Castel document inks. For high Iron Gall content inks there are: ESS Registrars Ink, Diamine Registrars Ink, PW Akkerman #10 (ijzer-galnoten bl/zw) and (I think) one from Organics Studio.

Modern IG inks shouldn't destroy paper like some of the old IG inks did. IG inks necessarily contain an acid, modern ones use hydrochloric acid any excess of which will eventually evaporate, while many old inks used sulphuric acid which will remain in the paper. But this should only matter for documents lasting centuries, if you only need the diaries to endure a few decades this isn't going to matter.

ndw76
March 10th, 2014, 12:23 AM
I am vain enough to hope that my ramblings will be read and well thought of in the centuries to come.

LagNut
March 10th, 2014, 03:37 PM
As an empiricist, I have to second the IG recommendation.

Water and sunlight see, to me, are the most likely threats, and the best laid plans don't work out over decades. This will be irreplaceable so I'd say paranoia is a good policy. Now I'm considering our own records and need to get the digitization going.

That digitization is something I'd think about also, but as an adjunct, not a substitute. Think of the written bits you've got of your ancestors and the visceral feeling invoked by handling the same paper they did. At least to me no scan can substitute.

Final thought, admittedly at odds with my first, sailor Sei boku(blue black nano) is my choice currently for these. I may hedge my bets with some IG writing also, but my practical side worries these won't actually be saved that long.

Actual final thought, consider giving some of the stuff about your kids to your grandkids. They will probably get a bigger kick out of it as a window on their parents. Especially the embarrassing bits.

Cheers
Mike

imaginerhetoric
March 10th, 2014, 09:16 PM
Modern IG inks shouldn't destroy paper like some of the old IG inks did. IG inks necessarily contain an acid, modern ones use hydrochloric acid any excess of which will eventually evaporate, while many old inks used sulphuric acid which will remain in the paper. But this should only matter for documents lasting centuries, if you only need the diaries to endure a few decades this isn't going to matter.

As an archivist in training I've definitely seen some of the ill-effects of the old IG inks! Papers newer and older than 1860 with counters fallen out as the ink ate the paper or hollows where the letters had been! :tsk:
I'm not familiar with the modern IG forumla, but be certain to check as raging.dragon mentions because you certainly don't want to introduce unnecessary acid into the paper.