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rberg6868
March 21st, 2014, 07:58 PM
So I wanted some grey ink and I decided to try and make my own. I had a couple of bottles of Delta Black that came with pens that I ordered and I decided to try diluting it to see if I could get grey. I started with 2 ml. of ink and 1 ml of water and kept diluting it. I was shocked to see how long it took to get to something approaching grey.
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When I got to 2:17 the ink like qualities started to break up and I decided to go with 2:15. The samples above were all done with a glass dip pen so I dumped my experiment bottle and remade it at 2:15 and inked up Monteverde Incipia with a 1.1mm stub.
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I really liked the colour that I got. There is a lot of shading and some really attractive blue undertones. I may go a little less dilute next time, the writing sample in the actual fountain pen came out much lighter than my dip pen samples but I think that that is a characteristic of dip pens, they tend to be more saturated.
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Just for a visual. illustration of how much water this actually is here are two pictures. The first one is the amount of ink I put in the bottle, the second is after I diluted it. Now I just need a name for this colour. Suggestions?

kaisnowbird
March 21st, 2014, 08:45 PM
2:15, that's impressive diluting.

VertOlive
March 21st, 2014, 09:12 PM
You've ended up with a very attractive ink there, the shading is the best!

Jon Szanto
March 21st, 2014, 10:04 PM
I won't be satisfied until you have fifty shades of grey.

tandaina
March 22nd, 2014, 12:24 PM
I like it! I'd call it Charcoal Shade, or something. I'm horrible at naming things. I too love the shading though.

rberg6868
March 22nd, 2014, 07:37 PM
Little update. The writing experience with the diluted ink is definitely not the same. The lubricating qualities of the ink are significantly reduced, it feels very, well, watered down. I was concerned about the the performance with the Monteverde pen. If you look at the writing sample up above the ink gets significantly lighter near the end. I pushed ink down into the feed with the converter and it started up again. This happened again later last night; the ink would write nicely for a time and then would start to fade out until I pushed more ink into the feed. I am wondering if the higher water content means that the ink evaporates more quickly out of the feed or if the capillary action in the feed is affected by the lower viscosity of the diluted solution. So anyway, I tried it in a Faber Castell Ondoro and I did not have the same problems. I'm not sure why but I think that by adding so much water I am taking the ink to the edges of where it will act like ink and in the Monteverde that lead to inconsistent results. I still like it, I may add a bit more ink to the solution and I think I am going to name it Mountain Mist.

kaisnowbird
March 22nd, 2014, 09:41 PM
I think you are right. The loss of viscosity is one of the main problems with diluting, and my experiences agree with yours that Monteverde feeds are not very good at coping with inks that are low on lubricant.

Cookies
March 22nd, 2014, 10:56 PM
Little update. The writing experience with the diluted ink is definitely not the same. The lubricating qualities of the ink are significantly reduced, it feels very, well, watered down. I was concerned about the the performance with the Monteverde pen. If you look at the writing sample up above the ink gets significantly lighter near the end. I pushed ink down into the feed with the converter and it started up again. This happened again later last night; the ink would write nicely for a time and then would start to fade out until I pushed more ink into the feed. I am wondering if the higher water content means that the ink evaporates more quickly out of the feed or if the capillary action in the feed is affected by the lower viscosity of the diluted solution. So anyway, I tried it in a Faber Castell Ondoro and I did not have the same problems. I'm not sure why but I think that by adding so much water I am taking the ink to the edges of where it will act like ink and in the Monteverde that lead to inconsistent results. I still like it, I may add a bit more ink to the solution and I think I am going to name it Mountain Mist.

If you like the color as-is, instead of adding more ink you could try a drop of Photo-flo.

rberg6868
March 22nd, 2014, 10:57 PM
What's Photo-Flo?

Cookies
March 22nd, 2014, 11:05 PM
It's a surfactant that should help the ink flow. If you don't have access to photo-flo you can use a drop of dish soap. Like Dawn or whatever you would hand wash dishes with.

rberg6868
March 22nd, 2014, 11:29 PM
Thanks. I'll give it a go.

kaisnowbird
March 23rd, 2014, 04:37 AM
Heheh, go easy on the dish soap though. A little (even diluted soap) goes a long long way.

tiffanyhenschel
March 23rd, 2014, 06:07 AM
Heheh, go easy on the dish soap though. A little (even diluted soap) goes a long long way.

Someone I know solved her problem with a dry writing ink by dipping a toothpick in dish soap and then swirling the toothpick in the ink bottle. It worked perfectly--but that's how little it takes.

jacksterp
March 27th, 2014, 12:00 AM
Definitely err on the side of caution with dish soap.

With respect to ink - it is powerful stuff!

SteveE
March 28th, 2014, 12:27 PM
You could also try (if the pen is easily cleaned, etc.) a few drops of Formula 409, which is actually an industrial grade surfactant masquerading as a consumer product. I would not use this in anything but c/c pens which can easily be serviced.

By diluting the ink you have noticed the effect of diluting the surfactant already included in the ink. While ink may be, in general, colored water, it also contains a certain percentage of surfactants. By adding pure water, you increase the dilution (decrease the % of surfactant per unit of ink), which will result in the ink feeling less "slippery." You either replace the surfactant, put up with the dragging, or don't dilute the ink.

Plume145
April 6th, 2014, 11:46 AM
Woah, that is just gorgeous! I agree, the shading is incredible. I hope you manage to fix the lubrication issue, because it's definitely an ink you could use everyday.


Now I just need a name for this colour. Suggestions?

Smoke in the water? (because of how much water it took to make. Plus you have an endless pool to draw from for naming future mixes).

bleunuitguy
April 7th, 2014, 05:29 AM
You also might want to try glycerine. Use the toothpick trick here too. :)

snedwos
April 7th, 2014, 09:05 AM
Another way of making grey is going the chromatic route: try mixing orange and blue, for example. That way you wouldn't lose the surfactant, and get a greater range of greys both warm and cool.

kaisnowbird
April 10th, 2014, 04:16 PM
Another way of making grey is going the chromatic route: try mixing orange and blue, for example. That way you wouldn't lose the surfactant, and get a greater range of greys both warm and cool.

Awesome idea. Must give it a try.

rberg6868
April 18th, 2014, 10:45 AM
So I finally got around to adding dish soap to my diluted black ink. It worked great! I just dipped the tip of a toothpick in the soap, swirled it around in the ink bottle, then closed the bottle and shook it up. Some black soap bubbles formed on the surface but I popped them and filled my pen. There was a significantly improved level of viscosity and lubrication. I was surprised at how little soap it took to make a difference. Here is what it looks like. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/19/ajatuhat.jpg

mhguda
April 18th, 2014, 11:44 AM
Thanks for that tip/reminder. Used it profitably. I added some of the surfactant that I use to my chaos mix of inky water - water that's been used to dip pens to get them to start, or to superficially clean a nib, and such things; it sits in an open bottle so the mixture gradually thickens as water evaporates and ink traces are added - at some point, it contains enough color to be used as an ink in its own right. Adding the surfactant dramatically improved the flow characteristics! and the color is always a surprise...
As a surfactant, btw, I use a few drops of rinse aider for dishwashers. This is supposed to be added to the last cycle of a dishwasher load. I think it is better for my pens than dishwashing soap and you use less.