Please can anyone identify these Parker vintage pens?

[ckent007]

Information:
1. Steel pen model: has a ring around the cap base, similar to a parker 61 fountain pen. However, the cap end does not have a jewel - it is a thick brass/gold appearing end cap, with a conical top. Marked: Made in England at the base of the cap.

2. Red pen: NO ring around the cap base. The end cap metal part above the clip is not as conical, NOR as thick at the top. The arrow clip appears the same as the other pen. Marked "Industrial Argentina" at the base of the cap.


The pens are roughly the same length (steel one is a few millimeters longer)
The caps are not interchangeable.

Any help in identifying these pens greatly appreciated.

[jar]

Resize your pictures so folk can actually see them but none look like vintage pens.

[ckent007]

Here are resized images.

[Paul-H]

Hi

Just a guess but the all silver "Flighter might be a 45 and the other might be a 61 or whatever Parker called their ballpens that went with their Fountain Pens (45 & 61).

Paul

[HughC]

While no expert I'd suspect neither are 45s as the clip pattern is more that seen on 61 style. I suspect the Flighter may be a 50 with ???, the other probably falls into the 61 category ( Argentinian style ) again with a few ???

Regards
Hugh

[Ernst Bitterman]

I've been told that Argentine production sees the 61 clip applied to 45s; they were apparently very taken with that style of clip down there. The difference of jewel on the Flighter MAY make it a 61, but I claim no authority.

[HughC]

I've been told that Argentine production sees the 61 clip applied to 45s; they were apparently very taken with that style of clip down there. The difference of jewel on the Flighter MAY make it a 61, but I claim no authority.

Hi Ernst,

My English 61 Flighter has a plastic "jewel", the all metal feature on this pen makes me think it's "something" else, the 45 sounds logical...it does look a lot like a 45.

Regards
Hugh

[Scrawler]

Pictures of the nibs would be helpful.

[ckent007]

These are ballpoint pens, using standard Parker refills (no nibs like fountain pens)