Hi from Milano! (+ identification request)

[bzoto]

Dearest members of the fpgeeks forum,

I'd like to introduce myself and exploit your expertise to identify two pens.
First of all, I'm from Milano, Italy, and I started loving and writing with fountain pens since when I was a kid (alas, quite a while ago ;)).
My collection is by no means extensive. Being Italian, of course I started with Italian pens: two Auroras (a Hastil and a Kona), and an Omas 360 (piston-filler, M nib). There are also two Montblancs, a 149 (Fine) and a 144 (XF), both with 14K nibs (I got them in the 80's); a Sheaffer Triumph Imperial that I used a bit too much (the plating on the barrel is disappearing). Last but not least, a Pilot Vanishing Point with a 14K Fine nib, and a more recent 18K XF nib that I love.
I need your help to identify two pens (see the attached picture). The one on the left is my great-grandfather's. There is an engraving on the cap saying "RAPID 18 K.R.", while the nib is marked "ROVER" and the usual 585 for 14K gold. The one on the right is my grandfather's - there are just two T's on the cap. The nib is hooded but seems a 14K gold.

Thanks + have a nice sunday,
Matteo

[RuiFromUK]

Ciao Matteo,

Welcome to the forum. I hope you will enjoy it.

Unfortunately I cannot help you with your request for information but others might be able to help you.

Rui

[writingrav]

Welcome to the madness. Sorry I can't help you, but indulge anyway!

[serpent]

Left looks like a Waterman 42. Does it have any numbers stamped on the end? Also, what does it say before the 18KR?

[ardgedee]

David Nishimura has a Rover (http://www.vintagepens.com/morepics.php?id=9718&pics=8) for sale in his catalog, and the item description (http://www.vintagepens.com/catill_safety_pens.shtml) notes:

...most Rover pens appear to have been made by other makers, and this example seems to be a Montegrappa product.

[jar]

The pen on the right is a pretty generic Italian student pen and those were often named after the store that sold them.

The Rover does look like a fairly early Montegrappa. Elmo Montegrappa made pens for private labeling and so there were many brand names out there but the engraving is very similar to what Montegrappa uses on their modern Privilege Deco.

Montegrappa pens generally came in two basic shapes, octagonal or round and they were often machine engraved in such patterns.

http://montegrappa-history.com/images/deco/deco-04.jpg

Look carefully at the cap and body to see if you find a guild mark; a ☆1055VI in a cartouche.

[caribbean_skye]

welcome welcome.

[Polyhistor]

Benvenuto alla pazzia! :D (OMG, my Italian lessons have been way too long ago ...)

[Cob]

Benvenuto (?) Signore (a?)

Sorry I had better revert to English; welcome.

Cob

[bzoto]

Indeed it seem like some of the Waterman 42 pictures I saw online...
On the cap there is just "RAPID 18KR". I cannot find any numbers anywhere on the pen.

[bzoto]

I looked carefully, but there are no other signs or numbers besides those I cited before.

[jar]

I looked carefully, but there are no other signs or numbers besides those I cited before.

Since the overlay is only rolled gold that is not unexpected but still I hoped there would be a guild stamp.

[Aleks]

:welcome:

[Jeph]

:welcome:

I can't help with the first one but it looks like you at least have a good start on that.
I swear that I have a pen like the second one in my parts bin, not with "TT" on it though, which also suggests that (like usual) jar is correct on that one also.

[Uncle Bud]

Ciao, and :welcome: to the madness.

[rgperedo]

Benvenuto, magari ci puo mostrare alcune penne stilografiche italiane che abbiamo mai visto. Ovviamente vedrà che ci sono tanti che apprezzano le penne italiane qui. Saluti.

[bzoto]

But of course! Here, have some Italian nibs...

[jar]

:welcome:

I can't help with the first one but it looks like you at least have a good start on that.
I swear that I have a pen like the second one in my parts bin, not with "TT" on it though, which also suggests that (like usual) jar is correct on that one also.

The two most common stamps I've seen on those pens are VV and TT.

[Lady Onogaro]

Hi, Matteo,

I don't know what they are, but they are beautiful. Do they write well? It must be nice to hold in your hand a pen your great-grandfather used. Looks like he took care of it. :)

[Frank]

:welcome:

[VertOlive]

Aren't these geeks the smartest ?!

Welcome to the show!

[bzoto]

Well I did not use the one on the left extensively, just tried with a bit of in on the nib - I never filled it because it would probably leak: the gaskets are too worn and must be replaced... The other one works fine and writes nicely. Both have quite fine nibs, the first is more flexible.

[inlovewithjournals]

:welcome:

[Mags]

Welcome to the forum, we are so lucky to have some knowledgeable FP users and collectors here that field many questions.

[Holsworth]

:welcome:

[Jeph]

OK, I managed to dig mine out of The Box. It was in there because the barrel was warped and more importantly it has a broken nib tine. The cap marking on mine is “MS.” It is also stamped “TOURIST” on the barrel. The nib is stamped “DAUER FEDER 1” which means it is a German size 1 manifold nib. (The literal translation is permanent feather for an example of the difference between interpretation and translation.) German nibs were not uncommon on Italian pens. The Italian word for tourist is turista whereas one German word for tourist is <drumroll> Tourist. So I am not sure if I have a German version of the Italian pen or what but a least I was not imagining that I have a very similar pen living in The Box.

12387

[bzoto]

Thanks! It is indeed similar - sorry for the nib.
Btw among my old pens I found also this one - it seems quite old. There is a stamp "RADIUM" on the barrel, and "Stilus 14 CAR" on the nib. The nib is very flexible but also very scratchy!

[Jeph]

Some of those old faded hard rubber pens write like dreams and that one definately smells Italian. I tell myself that I can see the tines out of alignment in your picture. You might see if you can do a little adjustment. One problem with flexible nibs is that once a tine decides that it wants to be somewhere it is difficult (becasue it is so easy to deflect the tines if that makes any sense) to get just the right amount of adjustment to keep them aligned. Heavy flex also tends to make errant tines revert back to their previous places.