Gold nibs wider than steel nibs?

[Pixlr]

I've been looking to upgrade from a Pilot Metropolitan to a Pilot Custom 74. What's really stumped me though is how the nib sizes appear to be very different from a steel to gold nib, perhaps because the golden ones are softer.

According to Goulet Pens' Nib Nook, the Metropolitan's medium is the same as the Custom 74's fine. Is that accurate?

Although I'd love help with answering my question about these two particular pens, if you don't have experience with them, tell me about your relevant experiences with other pens!

Thanks!

[HeresyHammer]

I checked the Goulet Nib Nook and your right; they do look different. I'm no expert and I do not own either of those pens from Pilot, but I would guess that "springiness" may have something to do with it. With my collection of pens, every nib is completely unique. I have steel nibs that provide some very nice flex and spring without any effort while my 18K Duofold nib is as hard as a nail. My Pelikan 400 (14k) bounces on the page and looks almost like a broad instead of a medium. I think there are a number of factors at play. The spring of the nib, wetness of the feed, the material, the manufacturer, your style of writing in regards to pressure, all come together to put a line on the page. I'm sure the more knowledgable/experienced ones will be along shortly and perhaps people who own both pens. :)

PS. Welcome to the forum. I noticed this is your second post and you joined this month. You'll find the members here are very friendly and exceptionally knowledgable.

[KBeezie]

Gold doesn't necessarily mean soft, you'll sometimes find gold nibs that are hard as a nail, and others that are very soft and malleable since it depends on how it's made and what it's alloy mix is (ie: 14K = 58% or so gold, the remainder of the alloy can vary in which metal the manufacture decides).

The Pilot Metropolitan Steel nibs are pretty spot-on for the middle of the "japanese standard", but some of their higher end pens have unique nibs, like the Falcons are all Soft nibs (ie: sort of a semi-flex) so there will be minor variations when writing normally, and can be wetter than some of their other offerings. The "Medium" on the Metropolitan is pretty spot on for Western Fine (Jowo, Monteverde, Faber-Castell, etc).

On the Japanese side, Modern, not counting the "soft" nibs (ie: you can have both 14K and 18K gold nibs, and they can be both hard and soft depending on which pen and nib, so just because it's gold doesn't mean soft), Platinum is on the small side, Pilot right down the middle and Sailor is on the fat end of the Japanese 'standard', that is to say a Platinum Fine will be smaller than a Pilot Fine, and a Pilot fine tends to be smaller than a Sailor fine.

Long story short, it depends on how the nib is made and grounded/shaped, not so much that it's steel or gold.

Edit: (I need to update to a new write sample) Here's a small write sample of most of my inked pens as of May 30th.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/inked/rhodia_inked_may30.jpg

One thing to note near the top. My Sheaffer Touchdown (Evergreen Green) with a 14K Gold Feathertouch (platinum coated) Accounting nib is hard as a nail, there's no line variation or springiness to it. However the Korean made Pilot Elite "Big Cap" with a Steel Extra-Fine nib is a little on the soft side with some spring to it and can flex to a tiny degree. As can the Platinum PTL-5000 with a 14K Gold Extra-Fine nib (not advertised as soft, since it won't spring/flex nearly as much as a platinum "soft" nib or a Pilot soft nib, but does have some degree of spring to it). Sheaffer gold nibs tend to be on the hard side, they're still 14K gold, but they're hard.

PS: The Metropolitan is roughly a $15 pen, the steel nibs are mass produced and as such are probably mass ground/polished to a certain extent but probably not a whole lot of time spent into each one. On the more expensive pens, I'd imagine they took more time grinding and polishing the nibs, getting it down to a specific feel and line width.

[jde]

Gold is more "wettable" than steel, so that probably accounts for the difference you see. Other materials more wettable than gold, too, such as rhodium plating. More wet meaning more ink lays down on the page.

Binder talks about nib qualities in this piece in his reference pages (http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/ttp/creeps.htm) about some of the possible causes of "nib creep."

[Sadiq]

I have a Parker Vector with a steel medium nib & a Parker 45 with a 14k medium nib.

They're the same brand so one would think the nib widths should be standardized...my 45 with gold nib is noticeably wider than the Vector with steel nib.

I passed it up for Parker changing the widths at some point in time & use the 45 more as I enjoy the wider wetter nib :)

[recluse]

I have Custom 74 with an FM nib and Metropolitan with a medium nib. I'd say Custom 74 is ever so slightly thinner.

[jar]

I have a Parker Vector with a steel medium nib & a Parker 45 with a 14k medium nib.

They're the same brand so one would think the nib widths should be standardized...my 45 with gold nib is noticeably wider than the Vector with steel nib.

I passed it up for Parker changing the widths at some point in time & use the 45 more as I enjoy the wider wetter nib :)

You would be wrong to think there is much standardization even within the same model from the same maker. What there usually is is a standard range for tipping, but how the blob of tipping is formed and finished as well as materials, feeds, inks, papers can mean that two same width nibs can behave entirely different.

[Pixlr]

I have Custom 74 with an FM nib and Metropolitan with a medium nib. I'd say Custom 74 is ever so slightly thinner.

Wait, what is FM? Is that like in between Fine and Medium? Sorry for this uneducated question!

[KBeezie]

I have Custom 74 with an FM nib and Metropolitan with a medium nib. I'd say Custom 74 is ever so slightly thinner.

Wait, what is FM? Is that like in between Fine and Medium? Sorry for this uneducated question!

It's what some people call a Finenium roughly in between a fine and a medium. I don't usually see "FM" from western shops. But here's an FM 92 on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Custom-Heritage-Traditional-Fountain/dp/B0046L3ET8

[Pixlr]

I have Custom 74 with an FM nib and Metropolitan with a medium nib. I'd say Custom 74 is ever so slightly thinner.

Wait, what is FM? Is that like in between Fine and Medium? Sorry for this uneducated question!

It's what some people call a Finenium roughly in between a fine and a medium. I don't usually see "FM" from western shops. But here's an FM 92 on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Custom-Heritage-Traditional-Fountain/dp/B0046L3ET8

That is awesome! Okay next question...does the CH92 have a blind cap for it's piston filler?

[KBeezie]

That is awesome! Okay next question...does the CH92 have a blind cap for it's piston filler?


Not sure about it being blind as in being hidden, but yea it's not a cartridge/converter style of piston but full bodied. (and I noticed Japanese companies are pretty big on C/C, not so much on full body filling systems).

http://www.gouletpens.com/Pilot_Custom_Heritage_92_Clear_Fine_Fountain_Pen_p/pn60586.htm

[Pixlr]

Everybody has been super helpful! Thank you!

This doesn't mean I'm against y'all continuing to help...just saying thanks :)

[jde]

Okay next question...does the CH92 have a blind cap for it's piston filler?

There's no removable blind cap on the 92. Well, you can remove it if you take a wrench to it, but assume you're referring to a traditional type of blind cap which unscrews/removes to reveal the filling mechanism.—and that the 92 does not have.

[KBeezie]

Okay next question...does the CH92 have a blind cap for it's piston filler?

There's no removable blind cap on the 92. Well, you can remove it if you take a wrench to it, but assume you're referring to a traditional type of blind cap which unscrews/removes to reveal the filling mechanism.—and that the 92 does not have.

I never figured 'blind' meant removable because even my Sheaffer Touchdown and Snorkel or Montblanc 225 have "Blind Caps" but they're not removable in the sense of becoming separated from the pen outside of the repair process. Just that they're 'flush' against the body so they don't really seem like a cap.

[Pixlr]

Okay next question...does the CH92 have a blind cap for it's piston filler?

There's no removable blind cap on the 92. Well, you can remove it if you take a wrench to it, but assume you're referring to a traditional type of blind cap which unscrews/removes to reveal the filling mechanism.—and that the 92 does not have.

I never figured 'blind' meant removable because even my Sheaffer Touchdown and Snorkel or Montblanc 225 have "Blind Caps" but they're not removable in the sense of becoming separated from the pen outside of the repair process. Just that they're 'flush' against the body so they don't really seem like a cap.

News to me! I've always considered it to be a removable cap like the Noodler's Konrad for example, but what do I know!

[jar]

Generally "blind cap" does mean a removable cap that hides a mechanism and not those end cap that are attached to a mechanism. I would say many of my Parkers and some of my Montblanc and Montegrappas have blind caps. My MB 144, 146 and 149 do not have blind caps.

[jde]

Okay next question...does the CH92 have a blind cap for it's piston filler?

There's no removable blind cap on the 92. Well, you can remove it if you take a wrench to it, but assume you're referring to a traditional type of blind cap which unscrews/removes to reveal the filling mechanism.—and that the 92 does not have.

I never figured 'blind' meant removable because even my Sheaffer Touchdown and Snorkel or Montblanc 225 have "Blind Caps" but they're not removable in the sense of becoming separated from the pen outside of the repair process. Just that they're 'flush' against the body so they don't really seem like a cap.

News to me! I've always considered it to be a removable cap like the Noodler's Konrad for example, but what do I know!

This is where what we call things can lead to confusion. I think it's pretty accepted that when we are talking "blind cap" we mean a removable piece that hides the filling mechanism. When talking about piston pens without removable cap, we call it a piston knob. Whether that's "official" or not, it's common nomenclature, and it's helpful so that we don't confuse each other. IMHO.

I'm not talking from "expertise," just sharing what I've learned over the years from those who know a great deal more than moi.

Certainly, we've ventured afar from the OP's main topic, but Pixlr did ask about the 92, ay? :hippie:

Peace to all.

[recluse]

I have Custom 74 with an FM nib and Metropolitan with a medium nib. I'd say Custom 74 is ever so slightly thinner.

Wait, what is FM? Is that like in between Fine and Medium? Sorry for this uneducated question!

Pilot offers the whole range of nibs for their pens. For Custom 74 (and, I guess, for Custom Heritage 92 and Heritage 91) it includes F, FM and M (and a bunch of other) nibs. Since F is too fine for me and I wasn't sure about M, I went with FM. It is, indeed, somewhere in between of their fine and medium and is stamped <FM>.

[Pixlr]

I have Custom 74 with an FM nib and Metropolitan with a medium nib. I'd say Custom 74 is ever so slightly thinner.

Wait, what is FM? Is that like in between Fine and Medium? Sorry for this uneducated question!

Pilot offers the whole range of nibs for their pens. For Custom 74 (and, I guess, for Custom Heritage 92 and Heritage 91) it includes F, FM and M (and a bunch of other) nibs. Since F is too fine for me and I wasn't sure about M, I went with FM. It is, indeed, somewhere in between of their fine and medium and is stamped .

If I could find a FM C74 (not CH92) for ~$100, I would be so set. I just can't shake the feeling that M would be too wide and F would be to fine.

And yes, I realize I am delving into a definite nitpicking area.

[recluse]

Pilot offers the whole range of nibs for their pens. For Custom 74 (and, I guess, for Custom Heritage 92 and Heritage 91) it includes F, FM and M (and a bunch of other) nibs. Since F is too fine for me and I wasn't sure about M, I went with FM. It is, indeed, somewhere in between of their fine and medium and is stamped .

If I could find a FM C74 (not CH92) for ~$100, I would be so set. I just can't shake the feeling that M would be too wide and F would be to fine.

And yes, I realize I am delving into a definite nitpicking area.

You may check out Japanese vendors, for example, www.engeika.com. His prices are appealing, but the service is not on par with the best vendors in the US. There are a few threads about his store, you can look through them and decide for yourself.

The nib size is important, especially if you're planning to use the pen on the daily basis. Frankly, I'm far from being amazed by the nib on my Custom 74. Somehow the combination of the design of the pen, the width of the line and the amount of feedback (it surely is not scratchy but the feedback is a tad too strong for my taste) make the pen uncomfortable for me. Perhaps I'd be better off with a medium nib, I don't know.

Unfortunately, this is one of those situations when it boils down to personal preferences, and maybe a bit of luck.

[Sadiq]

You would be wrong to think there is much standardization even within the same model from the same maker. What there usually is is a standard range for tipping, but how the blob of tipping is formed and finished as well as materials, feeds, inks, papers can mean that two same width nibs can behave entirely different.

I'd understand if there were a slight difference in a makers nibs with the same size. My 2 Parker's are like the difference between a Medium & a Broad.