Condensation in the cap ???

[earthdawn]

So I posted this on my instagram and found a lot of people have this as well.

So my clear Kaweco that sits in my shirt pocket has been showing signs of condensation in the cap and causes it to be very wet when I first start writing with it. Being a broad nib does not help the cause either.

Just wondering how many others have this issue?

PS I am indoors in the A/C all day so it's not like its exceptionally hot though I imagine my body heat has something to do with it.

http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac10/thevaporcafe/B59AF703-DFD9-4E0F-BCD0-2BDD4BCA76F9_zpsa3g4uwuj.jpg (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/thevaporcafe/media/B59AF703-DFD9-4E0F-BCD0-2BDD4BCA76F9_zpsa3g4uwuj.jpg.html)

[KBeezie]

Are you in a humid environment, indoor or outdoors when you have the pen uncapped? Also which ink?

Body heat can very well have something to do with it, especially if the dew point inside the cap is lower than your body temperature (and has moisture/etc already in the air of the cap), I also imagine that cap is rather well sealed if condensation can't escape the cap, but that also seems like 'a lot' of condensation. If it's not the air, then I'd suspect the ink.

[RayCornett]

Kbeezie is right. Your body heat combined with the AC being on basically, you ended up with a minicloud in your pen cap just like if a warm and cool front would meet. I bet it is water from the ink.

[pajaro]

You should try it in Florida in the summer . . .

[HeresyHammer]

Now that's an interesting phenomenon! To me, it resembles dew and not of the "Mountain" verity. According to Wikipedia, "Dew is water in the form of droplets that appears on thin, exposed objects in the morning or evening due to condensation. As the exposed surface cools by radiating its heat, atmospheric moisture condenses at a rate greater than that at which it can evaporate, resulting in the formation of water droplets."

What may be happening is the air trapped in the cap of the pen has water vapor in it (as most air does). Once the pen cap is sealed, it creates a small vacuum system. The moisture in the air begins to form water droplets on the cap when the outside air is warmer than the inside air or the pen is exposed to UV light heating thus heating the inside air greater than the outside. The former would produce water on the outside of the cap like a glass of ice water that sweats; while the former produces water on the inside. The water is always manifested on the side that is warmer. Your picture shows that the pen cap is clear, which certainly would be effected by UV light. It reminds me of double pain windows that have a broken seal. When water vapor enters in-between the windows, it begins to fog and produce water droplets between the panes. This is especially evident when the sun warms the air inside (again UV light) but the windows and outside air have a lower temperature. It's just a thought. What would probably be needed is some experimentation. :)

So perhaps it's a combination of the two things you mentioned. Say you write with your pen and cap it. The air is trapped inside the cap along with any water vapor. You place the pen in your pocket for an hour and it brings the pen, the air in the cap, and the surrounding air up to your body temperature. For example, we will use 98 degrees, even though that's your internal temperature. When you take the pen out of your pocket, it is immediatly surrounded by air that is now 72 degrees. A sudden change of almost 30 degrees on the outside of the pen, while the air in the cap is still at your body temperature of "98" degrees. This, in theory, would produce the water droplets that you see on the inside of the cap. The only problem with that is the plastic cap would need to be cooled rapidly by the outside air for that to take place unless there was a better conductor like metal on the outside of the cap leading in. Another veritable to this situation is the evaporation of the water in the ink from your body temperature. If the air inside the pen is heating up along with ink which is supersaturating the air with moisture, the effect could be more dramatic.

What would be interesting is to know if the water forms only when you pull the pen out of your pocket, or if you can look inside your pocket before the sudden change of temperature to see if the water is there before hand. Just my two cents... and I could be way off. It's been known to happen. :)

[Vokey]

You should try it in Florida in the summer . . .

Floridas not humid enough. Huh, what?

[Vokey]

So I posted this on my instagram and found a lot of people have this as well.

So my clear Kaweco that sits in my shirt pocket has been showing signs of condensation in the cap and causes it to be very wet when I first start writing with it. Being a broad nib does not help the cause either.

Just wondering how many others have this issue?

PS I am indoors in the A/C all day so it's not like its exceptionally hot though I imagine my body heat has something to do with it.

http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac10/thevaporcafe/B59AF703-DFD9-4E0F-BCD0-2BDD4BCA76F9_zpsa3g4uwuj.jpg (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/thevaporcafe/media/B59AF703-DFD9-4E0F-BCD0-2BDD4BCA76F9_zpsa3g4uwuj.jpg.html)
I would imagine, this isn't the right place to ask this, but it concerns your post. I'm trying to add a pic in my response but it's confusing. Any advise???

[KBeezie]

So I posted this on my instagram and found a lot of people have this as well.

So my clear Kaweco that sits in my shirt pocket has been showing signs of condensation in the cap and causes it to be very wet when I first start writing with it. Being a broad nib does not help the cause either.

Just wondering how many others have this issue?

PS I am indoors in the A/C all day so it's not like its exceptionally hot though I imagine my body heat has something to do with it.


I would imagine, this isn't the right place to ask this, but it concerns your post. I'm trying to add a pic in my response but it's confusing. Any advise???

His image is on photobucket, he just simply clicks the picture icon, paste the URL to where the image is hosted and insert.

I do the same exact from my static.karlblessing.com url.

But on FPG you can go down to "Go Advanced" then attachments, then upload the image, then "insert into post".

[Vokey]

I'll try it again. It just seems like a lot of steps

[Marsilius]

I get this in LA, too. Probably when in my shirt pocket but not sure if only then. Makes for a smeary first letter sometimes.
Of course I only notice it in my demonstrator pen.

[HeresyHammer]

I don't know why, but this fascinates me. I have never seen this before and would like to posit another aspect to my "theory" found below. I noticed that the Kaweco demonstrator has a metal finial that is stamped with the Kaweco logo. I know that most pens hold the finial in place by a small (metal) screw inside the top of the cap. Metal is a much better conductor of heat/cold than plastic. I don't own a Kaweco, but my Vac 700 has a sealed cap. At the bottom of the treads there is an O-ring that seals the cap in place and I'm sure making it close to "air-tight." Does the Kaweco have the same setup?

What may be happening is your body heat is radiating through the plastic, heating the air inside. Because the seal is good, the air cannot equalize with air outside the cap. (some pens have a small hold in the cap which allow this to happen, however I believe it is really there to ensure that while removing the cap, there is no vacuum that would extract ink from the nib/feed). While the air in the cap is heating, the finial is always exposed to the outside temperature because it is often the only part of the pen that is not against the body while in your pocket. The metal finial "conducts" the temperature of the outside air through the cap and lowers the temperature of the screw inside. This screw begins to cool the air around it, lowering it's dew-point and causing the air around it to deposit water droplets on the screw. The water, in turn, begins to fall along the side of the cap.

You picture shows that the majority of moisture is found along the top of the cap, closer to the finial, which leads me to believe that the water is forming in that area. Just another angle and thought.

[oldstoat]

In a sealed system it seems likely that either water vapour in warm humid air in the cap before you go into the A/C environment condenses, or that water in the ink in the feed and nib evaporates and recondenses. If your body heat is sufficient to cause evaporation, by warming the pen, then it seems unlikely that there is a sufficient temperature differential between the cap and the body to allow condensation.

I have a suggestion- take the cap off after you've been in the A/C office for an hour, dry it and put it back in your pocket. Check at the end of the day. If there's no condensation, then it's humid air trapped in the cap before you go to work.

[earthdawn]

Thanks for all the replies.

I can tell you that I have dried it out at work with a tissue and within a couple of hours it's back again to annoy me.

[oldstoat]

Damn. Another hypothesis shot down. That's science for you.

Have you considered checking our core and surface temperatures?

[stonerman33]

I get it here in WI all the time as well. I always carry my pen(s) in my shirt pocket, and if it's a demonstrator, there's almost always some condensation build up in there. Mostly been carrying my TWSBI pens at work lately, and they all do it. Humidity can't be the only factor as it'll happen during our brutal winters as well as the hot summer.

[RayCornett]

Here is an odd suggestion. If you ever wear a shirt with two pockets and normally carry the pen in the left pocket, try it in the right pocket for a day. The left side is closer to the heart and will be just a little warmer than the right side.

[Marsilius]

Did I miss something? Is it just demonstrators, or is it just that we see it in demonstrators?

[jadehawk]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/30/udybetav.jpg
If you notice my TWSBI 580Al on the left has condensation in the cap the one on the left 580RB was just taken out of the box. I live in Miami Florida and I have no idea what I did to make my pen do that.. it must be from entering and leaving an air conditioned area (like the car) it was close to 94 degrees..

[mhosea]

I don't know the details, but it's a common phenomenon, even when there is almost no metal in the cap. I always thought it was just that heating the ink in the pen causes evaporation of some of the water in the ink, so the air inside both the reservoir and cap becomes more humid. Condensation occurs when heating is uneven (e.g., when the pen is in your shirt pocket) or is discontinued when the pen is exposed to cool air. You'd probably not notice condensation in the ink chamber. It's only a problem, and a minor one, when the nib is such a tight fit in the cap that a droplet of condensation can make contact with both the nib and cap wall, in which case the condensation might become inky. I guess the ink as a whole is getting more concentrated, so possibly that is something to consider if it takes you a long time to get through a fill.

[johnus]

Question/idea. Is the condensation actually caused by H2O vapor or by other chemical compounds in the ink that may evaporate at a lower temperature???

[mhosea]

Question/idea. Is the condensation actually caused by H2O vapor or by other chemical compounds in the ink that may evaporate at a lower temperature???

It could (and probably should) contain any liquid component of the ink that evaporates at room temperature. I doubt it is predominately anything but water, however. I'll bet you can fill a demonstrator with distilled water and observe the phenomenon. Sounds like an experiment.