Little brother caught the bug

[inkyletters]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/24/vedaqydu.jpg

This is our summer project. We've abandoned letters and gone back to circles and lines because I didn't realize how horridly handwriting was taught (he doesn't even know cursive) at even the small private catholic school he attended. He would like to master this by school starting.
So he asked if we could get a fp for him to take to school- so my question is what style would you suggest for an 11yo boy? I'm leaning towards a safari or a safari clone so he learns proper hand placement on the pen. His favorite color is green.

[tandaina]

Yup. I'd say go with a Safari, they have green ones! Get him a bottle of some green ink to go with it and go to town. I personally think it is easier to learn with an italic nib but that might just be me, at least with the Safari you can get extra nibs and swap them out as he likes.

[tarheel1]

Don't buy a clone.

[ac12]

I would say, get the Lamy Safari, not a clone.
As for nib I would say start with a Lamy M nib, or a 1.5 or 1.9 italic if he wants to learn like that.
I thought the stub italic nib cuz it looks like he is using a chisel point marker. He has to pay more attention to the pen with a stub than a standard round tip. But the results are nicer. Admittedly, the stub does make the letters look more interesting, which is why I use a 1.1 myself. Whichever you think would make it easier and fun for him to learn.

Later he may want to switch to a Lamy F nib (comparable to my old Parker M nib).
I use an old Parker M nib (= Lamy F nib) when I write in my wide ruled notebooks.

But you got to get him to back off from pushing the pen down, look at his index finger, he is shoving the pen down. That is going to play heck with a FP nib, if not damage it. My guess is he may also have a TIGHT grip, which he should loosen. And lower the pen angle to about 60-45 degrees from horizontal. This all combines to make is easier to write.

gud luk

[snedwos]

I think a Nexx would be even better than a Safari. Or a Joy calligraphy set might be an idea.

[snedwos]

A tuned up Indian or Chinese pen might also be a good choice, since a fancy looking pen might get stolen, and they would be no great loss.

[Tony Rex]

http://www.anythinglefthanded.co.uk/images/griffix-grip.jpg

Pelikan Griffix.

[Brisboy]

A rotring core fur the fun factor? Still has a shaped grip section. Might be harder to come by. Or, as others have suggested, you can't go too wrong with a safari.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Does the Nexx come in green?

[inkyletters]

We are working on grip right now. I noticed in the picture how he was bearing down- he is using one of my 2mm shaffer calligraphy pens because if you don't hold it correctly it won't write. Made some progress but his grip is wrong, he doesn't move his whole arm, and is easily frustrated. The chisel tip marker is what I started with when my mom taught me calligraphy.

[Tony Rex]

grip...he was bearing down- ... is easily frustrated...calligraphy.

Developing good habit is hard, why make it harder? I get the intention by using chisel tipped pen to avoid rotation, but that's just one of many which must simultaneously be right. It can't be right without a proper grip in the first place. When the grip is easy, it's easier to correct rotation. On the Griffix, there's a smiley face to help the child to keep correct rotational nib orientation. Everything was designed to do the job painlessly. Less drama means more practice.

[inkyletters]

grip...he was bearing down- ... is easily frustrated...calligraphy.

Developing good habit is hard, why make it harder? I get the intention by using chisel tipped pen to avoid rotation, but that's just one of many which must simultaneously be right. It can't be right without a proper grip in the first place. When the grip is easy, it's easier to correct rotation. On the Griffix, there's a smiley face to help the child to keep correct rotational nib orientation. Everything was designed to do the job painlessly. Less drama means more practice.

Oops. Didn't state that properly. I'm having him use the sheaffer to help correct the grip (like the smiley face) since even when I was showing him correct grip with the marker he wasn't using it continuously since the marker writes no matter how you hold it.

I'll look at the green safari- I'm not sure if at one of his approved colors. He likes hulk green and captain America blue. Only reason I mentioned a clone was because I wasn't sure who had the best green (lamy, jinhao, or hero).

[Sailor Kenshin]

Getting a green Jinhao soon....will report on its 'Hulkiness.'

Lamy has an almost neon green. Unsure about the green on the 'Hero-fari.'

[DMurphy]

That is so cool! I would be a person that would have recommended a Lamy Safari for the cost and the quality, but also important is the ink that he would use while at school. You would not want him to have something that feathers or bleeds even on the cheapest paper. Another consideration is will he be using a converter? And if so what will his routine be to ensure that he has a full pen or will he start with cartridges while at school?

I am amazed that we are not teaching our children basic penmanship skills and shifting the focus so much to the computer. I know that it is the most common communication medium, quickly being dwarfed by smart phones. But what are we going to do after the Zombie Apocalypes?! No power, internet or cell phones! Without the ability to write we may plunge into a dark age where Squirrels may emerge as the dominant life form!!

[ac12]

We are working on grip right now. I noticed in the picture how he was bearing down- he is using one of my 2mm shaffer calligraphy pens because if you don't hold it correctly it won't write. Made some progress but his grip is wrong, he doesn't move his whole arm, and is easily frustrated. The chisel tip marker is what I started with when my mom taught me calligraphy.

Learning to move the arm is a hard change to make from being a finger writer.
I used to be a finger writer, and I think it took me about 3 months of daily 1-2 hour writing until my arm would move without me thinking about it.
So he has to keep at it, until his body thinks moving the arm is natural.
Also the heel of his right has has to slide on the paper. If he is resting on the heel of his hand, it won't move. Maybe put a thin sheet of paper under the hand to help it slide on the page.

[Plume145]

I don't get this arm moving thing. Am I missing something? Am I doing it but not realizing it? Am I not doing it and that's terrible? I don't get it. I write cursive, but it's just functional, joined-up writing, not calligraphic cursive. At mid-speed it's italic cursive and prettier, if I'm writing full-tilt it's looped cursive and a lot less pretty, but that's it. What am I missing? I'm beginning to worry here, lol.

[Avalona]

There's also the Pelikan Pelikano or a Pilot Kakuno. Both come in green, and they're both a bit fatter so it'll help him relax his hand a little, and they also both have molded grips. Also, neither of them are very expensive.

[snedwos]

I don't get this arm moving thing. Am I missing something? Am I doing it but not realizing it? Am I not doing it and that's terrible? I don't get it. I write cursive, but it's just functional, joined-up writing, not calligraphic cursive. At mid-speed it's italic cursive and prettier, if I'm writing full-tilt it's looped cursive and a lot less pretty, but that's it. What am I missing? I'm beginning to worry here, lol.

Me too...

[Marsilius]

I was embarrassed to realize that my son didn't realize that you can rest your wrist as you write. Sixth grade and he was writing from above with wrist in the air. Made me feel like "bad dad."

[LagNut]

I don't get this arm moving thing. Am I missing something? Am I doing it but not realizing it? Am I not doing it and that's terrible? I don't get it. I write cursive, but it's just functional, joined-up writing, not calligraphic cursive. At mid-speed it's italic cursive and prettier, if I'm writing full-tilt it's looped cursive and a lot less pretty, but that's it. What am I missing? I'm beginning to worry here, lol.

Me too...
Palmer method is where I'd go. It's the way I learned to write.

That said, I unlearned that for legibility and speed. The way I write now is a strange mixture of styles, but it's absolutely legible when it has to be. The arm movements still are the lions share of the effort.

That method will give your handwriting a fluid style, too.

Good luck
Mike

[Plume145]

I don't get this arm moving thing. Am I missing something? Am I doing it but not realizing it? Am I not doing it and that's terrible? I don't get it. I write cursive, but it's just functional, joined-up writing, not calligraphic cursive. At mid-speed it's italic cursive and prettier, if I'm writing full-tilt it's looped cursive and a lot less pretty, but that's it. What am I missing? I'm beginning to worry here, lol.

Me too...
Palmer method is where I'd go. It's the way I learned to write.

That said, I unlearned that for legibility and speed. The way I write now is a strange mixture of styles, but it's absolutely legible when it has to be. The arm movements still are the lions share of the effort.

That method will give your handwriting a fluid style, too.

Good luck
Mike

OK, now I feel even dumber, because I still don't get it :P If you un-learned the Palmer stuff for legibility and speed, why is that the way to go? If your handwriting is fast and still legible, what else is there? If they take their time, don't rush, just about anyone can write 'pretty' (not according to a calligraphic font, maybe, but in a way that gets all the letters and spaces even and neat). At least, everyone who's let's say a mature writer (let's put handwriting maturity around 14-15, assuming you began at 6). If you can go fast and keep it legible, while not exhausting yourself after like two sides of A4, you're hitting 3 for 3. Right?

Beyond that, I don't get the appeal of the Palmer handwriting. The examples I've seen look sort of bland and dull to me, like it's all about uniformity but without the artistry and craft of a beautiful calligraphy font, or the exuberant, elaborate curlicues favored by posh 19th c. girls in their letters and scrapbooks :-) Maybe it's because it reminds me of first-grader letters as I was taught them at school, so I associate it with little kids' writing?

[LagNut]

Sorry, missed this.

OK, so:

What I learned from Palmer, and still use,is using your arm muscles (1), and allowing flow(2).

If you write small amounts, the muscle part is not as important, but I'll bet you flow is not so easy to do using just hand muscles.

Straight Palmers IS bland. And done perfectly, it is certainly legible. At my note taking rate, it slipped from legible, and that could be problematic.

What I ended up with is a strange mixture, which includes Palmer along with a lot of printing. For example, the Palmer s and r are problematic, and are replaced with printed r &s. Z, 7 and zero are given distinguishing crossbars.

This I came up with at about 21, from issues I was having taking notes in the classes and at work. But the Palmer method is still at its base, and ends up with about 50% of the characters. It is also something that is pretty much entirely mine, it won't be taught anywhere.

And the loops, strikes, etc? I still do them. One of my favorite doodles.

So, no, I don't do Palmer because I dropped the parts that did not serve my needs, but kept the rest. And maybe there is another method that teaches you to use your arm muscles, but I learned it from Palmer.

Good luck,
Mike

[LagNut]

Final point, two sides of a4 is barely getting warmed up. Paper companies love me.

I'm wondering if you learned Palmer, mine was in the first three grades. I hated it at the time...

[davefeldman]

I have made it a person mission of mine to give presents of fountain pens. My experience is that, as soon as someone discovers how much more fun they are to write with, the bug is easily caught! And, people naturally begin paying attention to their handwriting, too!

[inkyletters]

Update: he is now in possession of a jinfari and happily sampling his inks. So adorable. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/07/2755778e51c5a5a38c304eed791eaa30.jpg

[Brisboy]

Excellent!