Visual Comparison between Jinhao 599 (v.1 & v.3) vs Lamy Safari

[KBeezie]

Just thought you might find it interesting.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/safari_charcoal/capped_compare.jpg

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/safari_charcoal/uncapped_compare.jpg

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/safari_charcoal/nib_compare.jpg

The Safari feels a tiny bit lighter than the Plastic 599. The orange one is still the smoothest writer of the three (though I may need to get the Safari nib replaced but it's already pretty smooth just not as smooth as that orange 599). Maybe I'll get another nib for the Safari then I can have a better impartial comparison between the two.

[KBeezie]

Just thought some of you might be interested to know the Jinhao 599 cap will fit on the Lamy Safari, yes, even the metal version cap of the 599.

The barrel from any version of the 599 however will not fit on the Safari's section (though the Hero clone seems to have a compatible barrel).

[top pen]

So how does the writing experience compare?

[VertOlive]

I'd try the Jinhao, but just hate the clip. Seems like I can't find the Hero-Fari as easily now that I'm sort of looking.

[gbryal]

I'd try the Jinhao, but just hate the clip. Seems like I can't find the Hero-Fari as easily now that I'm sort of looking.

Look for Hero 359 or Summer Color if you are looking on eBay.

[KBeezie]

So how does the writing experience compare?

Smoothest with the hooded orange 599, the Green metal 599 has been fine, the Lamy required some work, but it needed some cleaning re-crimping when I got it to begin with (ebay used), but the Safari's contours are a tiny bit more comfortable. Not too crazy about the paperclip style of clip on the Lamy, but least it clips well.

The orange hooded one which was already pretty smooth to begin with, responds very well to additional tweaking with micro-mesh and mylar paper.

Though to be fair of the 'writing' comparison, I'll will probably want to get a brand new nib then compare.

[mrcharlie]

I'd try the Jinhao, but just hate the clip. Seems like I can't find the Hero-Fari as easily now that I'm sort of looking.

Currently $8 shipped with converter and 6 cartridges of dark blue ink:

http://stores.ebay.com/YCPENS?_dmd=1&_nkw=hero+359

[KBeezie]

I'd try the Jinhao, but just hate the clip. Seems like I can't find the Hero-Fari as easily now that I'm sort of looking.

Currently $8 shipped with converter and 6 cartridges of dark blue ink:

http://stores.ebay.com/YCPENS?_dmd=1&_nkw=hero+359

Apparently the 359's nib fits onto an actual Safari as well (guess handy if the price was low enough for a Hero nib you want to grind).

I'm not too crazy about the Lamy's style clip, Prefer the one on the Jinhaos... nuts eh?

[mrcharlie]

I like the Jinhao clip better than a real Lamy-style clip like on the Hero. But my Hero 359 is a much better pen (as you might expect; it cost twice as much!). I bought it from the seller I posted in the link above for $9 at the time. The nib is really good.

If you think you want a clip-less Jinhao 599, it is very easy to remove the phillips #2 screw inside the cap and pull the clip out, put the screw back in ... in general the 599s cap disassembles easily and the clip does not need to be there for it to reassemble solidly.

[KBeezie]

I like the Jinhao clip better than a real Lamy-style clip like on the Hero. But my Hero 359 is a much better pen (as you might expect; it cost twice as much!). I bought it from the seller I posted in the link above for $9 at the time. The nib is really good.

If you think you want a clip-less Jinhao 599, it is very easy to remove the phillips #2 screw inside the cap and pull the clip out, put the screw back in ... in general the 599s cap disassembles easily and the clip does not need to be there for it to reassemble solidly.

Twice as much as what? If you mean the Jinhao, pricing can be pretty relative (doesn't normally reflect it's quality, especially with Chinese Pens), also I'm not sure how many of the Hero pens have been new-old-stock (the 'Safari' design has been around since the 80s). Right now can get a 359 for 7.99, but the Jinhao 599 prices do vary between $2.99 from China to around $7.99 (where as in the US around 5.99 to 9.99). So don't consider price as an indicator of quality.

I also find that like with most Chinese pens the nib can be hit-or-miss requiring some adjustment, for example the first 599 I got, with the crimped nib and metal body was a hit with the nib, smooth out of the box, didn't skip on flow, didn't dry out with either Caran d'Ache E.Orange or PR Spearmint, starts right up even after a couple weeks of not using it. The second version with the traditional nib, not so great, felt like one of the typical nibs on their larger pens, consistency was laxed, needed adjustment etc. And the third version with the hooded nib was great out of the box, smoother than even the actual Safari I have with the fine, and responded even better with just a couple strokes on micro-mesh and mylar paper.

Anywho, enough about that :D lol.

I tried clip-less with 599, the main problem is that it leaves that slot on the side, which is basically a large air hole for the nib, and entry point for dust and other stuff.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I'd try the Jinhao, but just hate the clip. Seems like I can't find the Hero-Fari as easily now that I'm sort of looking.

I like all the Safari-terations...but my Hero-Faris seem smoother and wetter. I got a white, a black, and grape. Fleabay seems the way to go, unless isellpens still has these on sale for $8.

[KBeezie]

I'd try the Jinhao, but just hate the clip. Seems like I can't find the Hero-Fari as easily now that I'm sort of looking.

I like all the Safari-terations...but my Hero-Faris seem smoother and wetter. I got a white, a black, and grape. Fleabay seems the way to go, unless isellpens still has these on sale for $8.



Is the near-exact clone of the Safari even sellable by a US Retailer? It's my understanding that retailers tend to have the 599 because it's design is not enough to infringe on design trademark, but something like the Hero could get a US retailer a cease-and-desist letter for selling a near exact clone.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I'd try the Jinhao, but just hate the clip. Seems like I can't find the Hero-Fari as easily now that I'm sort of looking.

I like all the Safari-terations...but my Hero-Faris seem smoother and wetter. I got a white, a black, and grape. Fleabay seems the way to go, unless isellpens still has these on sale for $8.



Is the near-exact clone of the Safari even sellable by a US Retailer? It's my understanding that retailers tend to have the 599 because it's design is not enough to infringe on design trademark, but something like the Hero could get a US retailer a cease-and-desist letter for selling a near exact clone.

I bought two of my Hero-Faris from isellpens...last purchase, he had fine nibs as well as the medium. I got one of the fines, but prefer the medium. They were on deep discount so they may have been selling out, but it's worth a look.

[KBeezie]

I'd try the Jinhao, but just hate the clip. Seems like I can't find the Hero-Fari as easily now that I'm sort of looking.

I like all the Safari-terations...but my Hero-Faris seem smoother and wetter. I got a white, a black, and grape. Fleabay seems the way to go, unless isellpens still has these on sale for $8.



Is the near-exact clone of the Safari even sellable by a US Retailer? It's my understanding that retailers tend to have the 599 because it's design is not enough to infringe on design trademark, but something like the Hero could get a US retailer a cease-and-desist letter for selling a near exact clone.

I bought two of my Hero-Faris from isellpens...last purchase, he had fine nibs as well as the medium. I got one of the fines, but prefer the medium. They were on deep discount so they may have been selling out, but it's worth a look.

They still have several on sale right now at $8, red, green, blue, purple, white, etc with choice of x-fine, fine and medium nib.

[mrcharlie]

Twice as much as what?
I have purchased 4 Jinhao 599s (all three nibs plus one translucent body) at an average price of $3.63 USD, including shipping. The most expensive was $3.75.

I have purchased 1 Hero 359 with F nib at $9.00 USD, including shipping and 6 cartridges.

Hence it cost twice as much; depending on what value you assign to the carts, a little more than twice as much.

I wasn't assigning quality based on price; I was saying the Hero was as much nicer as it needed to be to justify the price difference.

On the low end, your ability to know where to find the lowest cost pens from a still reliable vendor will swing such price comparisons wildly, of course. Someone else might get the Hero for $8 and the Jinhao for $6 or $7.


I also find that like with most Chinese pens the nib can be hit-or-miss requiring some adjustment [snip]
That has been my experience with Sheaffer, Waterman, and most other pen companies of significantly higher cost and perceived value as well.


I tried clip-less with 599, the main problem is that it leaves that slot on the side, which is basically a large air hole for the nib, and entry point for dust and other stuff.
Good point. When capped the nib should be inside the inner cap, although that slot will let fibers and dirt into the outer cap which could then contaminate the nib and inner cap when capping and uncapping. I wouldn't take the clip off for a pen you are putting in a book bag, but maybe would for one that never leaves your desk, if you like not having a clip. Personally, I like the 599 clip.

I pulled mine out and took the cap apart again just to be sure; the slot is above the inner cap, and there is in fact no air path from the slot into the cap with the inner cap re-installed without the clip. That small slot may bug you visually, but it isn't a contamination problem for the nib and cap.

[KBeezie]

I pulled mine out and took the cap apart again just to be sure; the slot is above the inner cap, and there is in fact no air path from the slot into the cap with the inner cap re-installed without the clip. That small slot may bug you visually, but it isn't a contamination problem for the nib and cap.

I just confirmed the same, once you have the screw back in to keep the inner cap in (as without it, you can't click the cap onto the pen) there would be no air path. The worst that might happen is something getting caught in the void but should not impact the nib. (though given how it's just a slip-in and secure with a screw, that does open up some options for a custom clip).

It would seem that the potential issue would be greater in a larger pen like the Jinhao 159, where you can actually simply unscrew the top of the cap and remove the clip. It's mainly just the threading at that point that would prevent air from escaping. (When I was playing around with the idea of making that a Cigar pen, I actually used a little bit of silicone grease around that thread. Quite likely not needed but hey... who knows).



I have purchased 4 Jinhao 599s (all three nibs plus one translucent body) at an average price of $3.63 USD, including shipping. The most expensive was $3.75.

I have purchased 1 Hero 359 with F nib at $9.00 USD, including shipping and 6 cartridges.

Hence it cost twice as much; depending on what value you assign to the carts, a little more than twice as much.

I wasn't assigning quality based on price; I was saying the Hero was as much nicer as it needed to be to justify the price difference.

On the low end, your ability to know where to find the lowest cost pens from a still reliable vendor will swing such price comparisons wildly, of course. Someone else might get the Hero for $8 and the Jinhao for $6 or $7.


True, though I'm not overly familiar with who are considered the 'reliable' Chinese sellers. (I don't see the prices quite as low as that except for Chinese sellers. And in my mind a $3 difference in the 599 is justifiable for faster shipping, some people may feel differently though, depends on what their typical budget is).



That has been my experience with Sheaffer, Waterman, and most other pen companies of significantly higher cost and perceived value as well.


In terms of Modern Pens? When it comes to Sheaffer, etc, I don't buy Modern (though statistically that opens me up to even higher rate of nibs that need adjustment, but I usually have mine restored, with the total cost coming to less than some of the modern offerings).

But also with those brands, if those nibs are a miss, in theory they should be warranty exchanges. I know that HisNibs.com claims that even on the higher priced brands 85% of nibs out of the box need adjustment, and that the Chinese pens require fewer adjustments than the higher end name brands (but he's also charging a premium for his pens, such as $35 for a Jinhao X750, X450, 159, etc, and $15 for Hero 616 with the premisis that he examines every nib he sells.

Far as the Jinhao 599s, eventually I'm going to work myself down to just one of them. Right now it's either the Metallic green one with the crimped nib, or the hooded orange one. Right now the Green is winning aesthetically and weight wise, but the orange one is winning smooth-ness wise on the nib and in terms of being slightly more comfortable.

I will have to plan in grabbing a Hero 359, but I don't want to do so until I can get maybe 3 or 4 of them, primarily for comparative purposes, and because like with the 599s and the bulk of X750s I had before and number of other chinese pens, there's always 1 or 2 that's got some issues (be it loose caps, feed not quite right, or the nib isn't quite right and can't seem to be corrected).

My personal experience with modern pens is that there tends to be better luck Japanese brands than the Chinese ones (I don't have many 'modern' western pens to really based something off personal experience, just that out of the box the Nemosine Singularity was the worst western pen I have). ... come to think of it, every modern western pen I've owned has had some kind of problem or another, some correctable, some not. *Shrug*. I think I'll need to tally up a list of each pen and get a more macroscopic view of where I get most of my issues from.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I thought the Nemo was Chinese. Just re-branded.

[Jon Szanto]

I know that HisNibs.com claims that even on the higher priced brands 85% of nibs out of the box need adjustment, and that the Chinese pens require fewer adjustments than the higher end name brands...

Please.

Consider the source and what he is selling.

[KBeezie]

I know that HisNibs.com claims that even on the higher priced brands 85% of nibs out of the box need adjustment, and that the Chinese pens require fewer adjustments than the higher end name brands...

Please.

Consider the source and what he is selling.


:P Yea I'm aware. This was the post where he says the Chinese ones need less adjusting (but for the most part he's comparing to Delta). In a way it was mentioned in Jest, Seeing as that's his excuse for the markup in price.

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/271182-hisnibscom-update-the-unloading-continues/?p=3071417

[Sailor Kenshin]

My hooded versions just arrived today. For what it's worth, I find the Jinhao converters flimsier than those on the Hero.

[Jon Szanto]

My personal experience with modern pens is that there tends to be better luck Japanese brands than the Chinese ones (I don't have many 'modern' western pens to really based something off personal experience, just that out of the box the Nemosine Singularity was the worst western pen I have). ... come to think of it, every modern western pen I've owned has had some kind of problem or another, some correctable, some not. *Shrug*. I think I'll need to tally up a list of each pen and get a more macroscopic view of where I get most of my issues from.

Karl, I'm certain you won't take this the wrong way, but... it really isn't fair to judge *any* large category of pens (say, modern Western) when all you either own or have had intimate experience with are the lesser expensive models (like the Nemosine). I am well aware that price is never *always* an arbiter of quality, but the difference between a Platinum Preppy and a Platinum 3776 "Nice" is, well, very wide. I certainly wouldn't judge all pens from a region or style by the quality of the lesser expensive pens.


For what it's worth, I find the Jinhao converters flimsier than those on the Hero.

But... these are all cheap imitations - what would one expect?

[Sailor Kenshin]

A working converter where the screw actually turns, like the one in the Hero. ^^

[Jon Szanto]

I think I was referring to "flimsier", which certainly implies that even the better one is "flimsy". Sounds like what the bad one is is actually "non-functioning junk".

I know, I know, sometimes it is fun to investigate the El Cheapos, but - speaking only for myself - the fascination wore off pretty quick. If I want to spend money on a pen that may not work well, I'd rather buy some vintage thing that needs work - at least when I tinker with that and restore it to health, I'll have a good pen.

But, horses for courses, and all that. Carry on!

[alc3261]

So how does the writing experience compare?

Smoothest with the hooded orange 599, the Green metal 599 has been fine, the Lamy required some work, but it needed some cleaning re-crimping when I got it to begin with (ebay used), but the Safari's contours are a tiny bit more comfortable. Not too crazy about the paperclip style of clip on the Lamy, but least it clips well.

The orange hooded one which was already pretty smooth to begin with, responds very well to additional tweaking with micro-mesh and mylar paper.

Though to be fair of the 'writing' comparison, I'll will probably want to get a brand new nib then compare.

Where did you get the hooded nib version?

[KBeezie]

Karl, I'm certain you won't take this the wrong way, but... it really isn't fair to judge *any* large category of pens (say, modern Western) when all you either own or have had intimate experience with are the lesser expensive models (like the Nemosine). I am well aware that price is never *always* an arbiter of quality, but the difference between a Platinum Preppy and a Platinum 3776 "Nice" is, well, very wide. I certainly wouldn't judge all pens from a region or style by the quality of the lesser expensive pens.


Hence why I clarified 'personal experience' so that there is some disclaimer there as to the scope. It's very difficult for any one person to try everything. The Nemosine isn't my only western modern, I also got a Monteverde Invincia Deluxe Nighthawk, Lamy Safari, and Faber-Castell BASIC. But course none of those are above $100 or so. As well as a couple others before I gave them away.

Monteverde Invincia Deluxe : black paint chipping, brassing on the endcap, section, clip, etc after about a month
Faber-Castell BASIC Carbon-Fiber : The section cracked down the middle within a month, been replaced with a leather version.
Nemosine Singularity: Original 0.8 nib, too dry and didn't flow well, cap had a bunch of micro cracks, but once I replaced the nib with a Goulet 1.5 it's been very smooth flowing, the cap hasn't developed any new cracks since I got it.
Lamy Safari: Purchased used, once cleaned it's been fine so far, no issues as of yet.

And if you read what I say, I didn't generalize them completely, just that it's been my trend, and I need to get some more exposure to see if that changes any for me. Just out of the ones I've purchased so far, the Japanese made ones (of which I have a couple more than modern western) has been pretty fine out of the box.

I also own the Platinum Century 3776, Pilot Falcon, as well as the lower priced Platinum PTL-5000 and Pilot Metropolitans. I've not paid more than $100 for any pens I currently own.




Where did you get the hooded nib version?


Came with the other 9 that Pens N' More sent me as a review sample, they were all supposed to be the 2nd version of the 599, but guess one of them ended up being the third version (I imagine their supplier probably did a little bit of mixing when they ordered them).


A working converter where the screw actually turns, like the one in the Hero. ^^

The converter on the 599 was fine... once I've taken it apart, applied some silicone grease and re-assembled it...

[gbryal]

My hooded versions just arrived today. For what it's worth, I find the Jinhao converters flimsier than those on the Hero.

Was just comparing mine. It's interesting that the Lamy, Hero, and Jinhao (at least mine) all have similar converters, in that the round-with-two-flat-sides shape of the knob is copied on both of the Chinese pens. Mine all currently fit in tightly and turn without much difficulty, and in any case are an improvement on those sliding converters. Those give me trouble when my pen won't start and I want to adjust the converter a little; they get stuck and pushing on them can result in a sudden release with much more ink than you intended.

Of mine, I'd say the Hero actually looks more marginal than the others, just because there is a bit of a gap between the knob and the chrome ring, making it look like the tolerances weren't as close. I haven't had an issue with it yet, but it hasn't been used heavily.

[KBeezie]

My hooded versions just arrived today. For what it's worth, I find the Jinhao converters flimsier than those on the Hero.

Was just comparing mine. It's interesting that the Lamy, Hero, and Jinhao (at least mine) all have similar converters, in that the round-with-two-flat-sides shape of the knob is copied on both of the Chinese pens. Mine all currently fit in tightly and turn without much difficulty, and in any case are an improvement on those sliding converters. Those give me trouble when my pen won't start and I want to adjust the converter a little; they get stuck and pushing on them can result in a sudden release with much more ink than you intended.

Of mine, I'd say the Hero actually looks more marginal than the others, just because there is a bit of a gap between the knob and the chrome ring, making it look like the tolerances weren't as close. I haven't had an issue with it yet, but it hasn't been used heavily.

In the first 599 I had, the converter worked... but soon as I had it in a case and took it somewhere, I found out upon taking the pen out that the converter had emptied out thru the bottom of the knob.

http://kbeezie.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/599_converter_malfunction.jpg

Some re-assembly with silicone grease seems to have mitigated it... but the fact that electric orange had leaked out in my pen case, onto my grandmother's table and my hands wasn't the most fun experience.

[alc3261]

I'd try the Jinhao, but just hate the clip. Seems like I can't find the Hero-Fari as easily now that I'm sort of looking.

I like all the Safari-terations...but my Hero-Faris seem smoother and wetter. I got a white, a black, and grape. Fleabay seems the way to go, unless isellpens still has these on sale for $8.
Did you say you had a hooded nib version? Where did you get it?

[KBeezie]

Did you say you had a hooded nib version? Where did you get it?

Seems that if you search Jinhao 599 Extra Fine, on ebay you end up seeing all the Hooded iterations of the 599. I don't think the Hero made a Lamy clone with a hooded nib, since their nibs were identical to the point that you could put a Lamy nib on it, or a Hero nib on a lamy. (Seems to be a few BIN's for 3-5$)

[Sailor Kenshin]

Loaded both hooded 599s last night. The red one got JH Perle Noir; the green, Sailor Yama-Dori (I know, right?). I had wanted to test both inks anyway.

Both work well so far with no flushing, smoothing, or anything. We'll see how the converter holds out.


Oh, PS: Does the Jinhao take standard Int. carts? The Hero doesn't.

[KBeezie]

Loaded both hooded 599s last night. The red one got JH Perle Noir; the green, Sailor Yama-Dori (I know, right?). I had wanted to test both inks anyway.

Both work well so far with no flushing, smoothing, or anything. We'll see how the converter holds out.


Oh, PS: Does the Jinhao take standard Int. carts? The Hero doesn't.

Yes, every Jinhao I've ever owned is Standard International (if they didn't have a permanently attached squeeze filler). And while the 599's converter looks like a lamy, it will not fit into a lamy, nor will it take lamy cartridges (it's std. international).

[mrcharlie]

Did you say you had a hooded nib version? Where did you get it?

My hooded/EF 599 writes nicely. I've used up a full converter fill of ink and 1 waterman long cartridge full in it. It is red.

I purchased mine from ebay seller ichina520; it looks like I bought 3 pens from that seller in my short Chinese binge. They all arrived as described but the shipping times were from 1 to 3 weeks; you can't count on fast with super cheap and free delivery from china. I just searched ebay for "Jinhao 599 fountain" and scrolled thru the results looking for whichever type I was interested in with free delivery specified. I low-ball bid about $4 USD for auctions that ended in a day or two from when I bid. I didn't fail to win too many times. You can also "buy it now" for only slightly more, but I was in no hurry.

FWIW, none of my Jinhao converters (out of 6; 4 are 599 style) failed to work or leaked, but small sample size. I took the one that came with the X750 apart and removed the little ball between first and second use. I think I added a tiny touch of silicone grease as long as I had it apart. The rest I didn't mess with.

[KBeezie]

FWIW, none of my Jinhao converters (out of 6; 4 are 599 style) failed to work or leaked, but small sample size. I took the one that came with the X750 apart and removed the little ball between first and second use. I think I added a tiny touch of silicone grease as long as I had it apart. The rest I didn't mess with.

To add to this, that one 599 converter leak I posted earlier was the ONLY Jinhao converter to fail on me after about 20 Jinhao pens (and about 10 various other Chinese brands). Though the only converters I've used for longer than the 599s, were the ones that came with my X750, X450, and 159. The ones like the Jinhao 611, or the Baoer pens, they were PIF'd within the span of about 2 months, so I don't know if they eventually failed or not. I do have one converter that came from a Kaigelu that was working, but when I noticed a crack on it's "metal" band around where the piston twist is, I just stopped using it.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I think I was referring to "flimsier", which certainly implies that even the better one is "flimsy". Sounds like what the bad one is is actually "non-functioning junk".

I know, I know, sometimes it is fun to investigate the El Cheapos, but - speaking only for myself - the fascination wore off pretty quick. If I want to spend money on a pen that may not work well, I'd rather buy some vintage thing that needs work - at least when I tinker with that and restore it to health, I'll have a good pen.

But, horses for courses, and all that. Carry on!


I understand that approach. But there are certain inks I love that I won't risk in any pen over five, ten bucks, and the Jins and Heroes write really well.

Even for non-frightening inks, I like inexpensive grab-n-go pens. Sometimes.