Black ink help

[GiGi]

I have tried a few different black inks but I always seem to get quite a bit of bleeding. My latest is aurora black, but it seems wet.

I don't know if it is my ink, or my faber, or just the cheap paper I use at work.

Does anyone have a good black ink suggestion?

[Jon Szanto]

If it's cheap paper, especially cheap copier paper, you are going to have an awfully hard time finding something that *doesn't* bleed. Aurora Black is one of my two perennial "go-to" blacks. Also, you not only don't mention which pen, but the nib size. If you are writing with an M or B nib, maybe moving to an F or XF would help.

[Quantum Sailor]

I've had good luck with lamy black, noodler's black, and some moderate luck with J. Herbin Perle Noire. Though from my experience with the two Diamine colors I've tried, graphite and midnight that ink seems very well behaved. The J. Herbin seems to be a "thinner" ink. I've used it in some pens with very dry nibs and they write much wetter with it. To the point where one pen I had actually started dripping.

Paper is a huge factor. I have inks that will feather like crazy on Moleskine paper but on $.50 composition book paper are just perfect. Though on that same composition book paper my TWSBI 580 EF and vac700 F don't want to write hardly at all. I have used noodler's on my printer paper, which is just your average printer paper nothing special, and it works pretty good, no feathering etc. Though I tend to avoid putting noodler's ink in anything vintage just out of a sense of precaution on the stories that have circulated about it.

[KBeezie]

Could be the wetness of the Nib too.

For example Noodler's Black Eel with either the Sheaffer Snorkel Admiral with a 14K Medium or a pen with a Goulet Medium would be too wet and take a while to dry with the lubricated black ink, especially on Rhodia. But with a much finer nib like on my Montblanc 225 with a dry-ish extra-fine nib, the ink did not flow nearly as wet and dried much more quickly.

Cheap paper will of course make bleeding and feathering worse with nearly any ink/nib combination, though worse with larger or wetter nibs.

Some paper like Cambridge Limited (by Mead) is horrible for bleeding/feathering, and it's not cheap either (bout $9 for a notebook), where as typical Mead 5-star performs much better with most fountain pens. Or like how Moleskine generally is crap for fountain pens, but Rhodia at the same price works better (but can take longer to dry as it's not as absorbent).

So you have a couple choices depending on what you have:

- Use Dryer Ink (wetter inks, especially aurora black, or lubricated blacks like Black Eel are more likely to bleed/feather)
- Use a Finer/Dryer Nib (the finer the nib point, the less likely it is to bleed/feather on the paper)
- User higher quality paper made for fountain pens/roller balls (moleskine for example works best with ballpoints or pencils, not fountain pens).

As for the last bit, a popular advice is to find cheaper notebooks, particularly at Staples that say "Made In Brazil", the idea is that the paper is made from older trees and the grain is more firm and consistent, as opposed to cheaper paper such as "made in U.S.A." that is typically from recycled paper and is blended inconsistently, and may feather and bleed differently from one stock to the next.

[GiGi]

Forgive my newbieness! It is a Faber-Castell carbon with a fine point. Unfortunately I don't really have choice of paper because I write in animal medical records, so I'm stuck with cheap copier paper that has been run through a large copier first.
So looks like I need to try a dryer ink or a fine nib.
Does being waterproof or bullet proof change the wetness? I never realized the intricacies of ink before I started doing more research.

[Jon Szanto]

Don't apologize for being new to this - we all were, at some point!

Yes, there are a lot of variables, and especially when you talk about black, there are a LOT of inks. I hope no one gets pissed off at me for saying this, but you might want to spend some time on the Fountain Pen Network forums. They have a *huge* number of ink reviews that people have written, and even a lot of black ink comparisons (between a number of different blacks). They have a dedicated ink review sub-forum, and there is even an index of all the reviews of inks, listed alphabetically by brand and color/name, kept up by one volunteer.

You can get a lot more info that way than asking here - while we are all more than eager to help, that resource has been around a long time and is a lot bigger, so there are a lot of reviews. While I'm not a big user of Noodler's inks, he has a number of blacks that are made for specific purposes, and one of those might be of value. PM me if you have any particular questions about where to find that info. If it is black you want, I'm pretty certain we can help you zero in on the best choice.

And, yes, a F or XF nib will certainly cut down on bleed, because it is putting down less ink. This would be especially noticeable in Japanese pens, which tend to run finer.

What the heck: FPN Ink Review forum (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/forum/35-ink-reviews/).

[KBeezie]

I have a faber Castell basic with a fine nib as well, it's not nearly as fine as my Japanese pens ranging from EF to M (the Faber Castell fine is about the same size as the Platinum medium on either my century 3776 or ptl10000 though the latter is wetter)

If you can't change nib or paper, then you're left with ink, in which case something like Pelikan brilliant back ( aka black 4001) would run a little dryer.

I've used R&K Salix without an issue that even dryer flowing but it's more of a darker blue depending on how wet the nib is. It's also iron gall ink, so best if you're writing a bit rather than letting it sit around to evaporate and saturate.

[LagNut]

If I recall correctly, there is a Pilot nib made to work with bad paper? A PO nib. There are posts here on it, and gourmet pens has an article.

Mike

[reprieve]

My Faber Castell nibs are all very wet. Coupled with cheap copy paper, you're probably going to see some feathering and bleed through with most fountain pen inks.

You should take a look at Noodler's X-feather. It's formulated specifically for cheap paper and a lot of folks like it as it also dries quickly. I have not tried that particular ink myself so cannot comment beyond that. I have used the Sailor Nano inks, available in black and blue-black (the blue-black is actually more of a lovely dark teal), and have had very good luck with those on cheap paper. If you can use a color other than black, check out Platinum Blue-black, which is a mild iron gall ink, and is drier and low-feathering; it's one of my favorite inks.

Jon gave you some good advice--check out some of the ink reviews on the Ink Reviews sub forum over at FPN. Pick out a few inks you like the looks of and then order some ink samples from Anderson Pens (http://www.andersonpens.net/ink-samples-s/1922.htm) or Goulet Pens (http://www.gouletpens.com/Shop_All_Ink_Samples_s/976.htm). Samples allow you to try out different inks cheaply without committing to a whole bottle.

Not to be a total enabler or anything (heh heh heh), but you might also consider picking up a new pen with a finer nib. You could get a Pilot Metropolitan with a fine nib--they tend to run more towards extra-fine--for about $15.

[mrcharlie]

If you are in the US, I would spend 10-15 USD on some samples from Goulets or isellpens or Andersons (those three I know sell samples) and try them out using your pen and your office paper.

In my experience most inks bleed on cheap office paper, but not all to the same extent. The thing I end up caring more about is the feathering if they are all going to bleed. But evaluate them with your needs in mind, on the paper you need to use. I'm not a big Noodler's Black fan in general, but in my experience it doesn't bleed on cheap lightweight paper where most black inks that I like more do.

If you need to eliminate the bleeding I'd suggest a sample of Noodlers's Black (or Black Eel or Bad Black Moccasin; they should all work about the same as they are nearly the same inks) and Noodler's X-Feather, and also I'd try Waterman Intense Black, Pelikan Brilliant Black, and Sailor Jentle Black (not all the web stores mentioned have this one); they are all worth a shot at $1.50 or so for a couple ml sample. If you are anti-Noodler's my best bet would be the Waterman. And as long as you are ordering, you might grab two or three more at a marginal cost increase including the shipping over just those four or five. I've no experience with Lamy Black, or J. Herbin Perl Noire, R&K Leipziger Schwarz, or Diamine Jet Black (or other Diamine blacks) for instance. For all I know one of them might be great in terms of low/no bleed on the paper you use.

FWIW, I dislike Noodler's Black and relatives as a general purpose Black ink because it leaves a layer of unabsorbed dye on the surface of most papers I try it with and is horrific on coated notecard/postcard stocks that other inks handle fine. But the one place I find it to work well for my priorities is cheap office paper and other cheap absorbent papers (also bank checks). It bleeds less than most inks, usually not at all, on a bunch of cheap lightweight papers I've tried. I'd bet one of these is your winner. Note that Borealis Black is different than most of Noodler's black inks, made to mimic the properties of Aurora Black which you've already tried, so skip that one. I'm referring to the various related varieties including Black (aka "Bulletproof Black" but technically the name is just Black), X-Feather, Black Eel, Bad Black Moccasin, Polar Black, Heart of Darkness, and any other Noodler's brand black that is considered "bulletproof".

Also FWIW, Sheaffer Jet Black, Waterman Intense Black, and Pilot/Namiki Black are my favorite general purpose Black inks that generally look good and work well on most paper, notecards, and postcards I use. But Waterman bleeds much less on more lightweight common papers in my experience. I have used Parker Quink Black a little, and it acts similar to Sheaffer in terms of bleeding.

[johnus]

Great info! Thank you.

[KBeezie]

If I recall correctly, there is a Pilot nib made to work with bad paper? A PO nib. There are posts here on it, and gourmet pens has an article.

Mike

PO or Posting nibs are designed to be able to apply a bit of pressure to the paper without springing or changing line variation, basically very firm nibs.

You're thinking of WA or Waverly with the upturned nib which is designed to be smooth on even very rough paper, the tipping is roughly around a fine-medium (japanese). But if the paper is poor in the sense that it bleeds/feathers too much, it'll continue to be so, it'll just write much smoother.

Also Japanese Fine is a bit smaller and usually dryer (least from what I see of Pilot and Platinum) than a Faber-Castell Fine which for me has been a tad on the wet side.

X-Feather will prevent the feathering but probably not the bleeding, and it would just remain wet on the paper for a while if it's really poor paper. Paper tends to be the easiest to replace.

I actually have a Pilot Elite (short pen from the 70s) with an 18K Posting nib which is good for unpredictable papers like filling out forms and what not. Because the feed area is completely encased (only the tipping and top of the nib is exposed) and it uses a sort of sponge just under the tines slit, the pen almost never seems to be a hard starter, even with bulletproof inks. The 18K Posting nib is somewhat around a Japanese extra-fine to fine.

I also agree that picking up a sampler pack may be a good route to go for comparison of well known 'higher grade' papers, but there are several that I've found that are cheap and work well. It's the in-between papers they typically sell in stores that seems to be the problem ones (like the Cambridge Limited I mentioned for ~$10 for a notebook, but it's absolutely horrible with roller ball or fountain pens).

Here's the notebook sampler pack on Goulet since it doesn't seem quite as easy to find via the menu.

http://www.gouletpens.com/Notebook_Sampler_Package_Set_p/package-notebooksampler.htm

About $16 for :


1 of Apica CD-5 Notebook - 2.8 x 4, Pastel ($1.80 value)
1 of Banditapple Carnet Peewee Notebook - Finland Pine, Lined Paper ($3.50 value)
1 of Classic Clairefontaine Staplebound Notebook - 3.5 x 5.5, Lined Paper ($2.25 value)
1 of Rhodia No. 12 Premium Notepad - 3.375 x 4.75, Lined Paper - Black ($3.25 value)
1 of Rhodia No. 12 Notepad - 3.375 x 4.75, Dot Pad - Black ($2.75 value)
1 of Midori Traveler's Notebook Refill 005 - MD Paper (Passport Size) ($4.20 value)


I've used Rhodia (probably my favorite for smoothness, next to no feathering or bleeding, but can take a little while longer to dry), as well ad Banditapple paper (feels sort of like moleskine, quicker drying, but doesn't feather or bleed nearly as much as moleskine).

[LagNut]

Kbeezie

No, I mean PO.

http://www.gourmetpens.com/2013/09/review-pilot-custom-heritage-912-10-po.html?m=1


I do believe these nibs were made specifically to deal with bad paper(see about 3 paragraphs in to the above review).

[GiGi]

Thank you so much everyone for your help. I'm going to keep all of these suggestion in mind. Luckily, I live very close to Anderson's Pens, so I can make a trip down to see them (as in 10 miles). For now I have picked up Sailors Kira-guro black ink, and a new Lamy with a fine point. It did very well this week.

[Silverbreeze]

Lucky!!!