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biscuit
October 17th, 2014, 03:11 PM
Normally I keep Noodler's Black in my knock-about every day Metropolitan for boring things like paying bills, writing grocery lists, etc. I like it because it's well behaved on most paper, doesn't bleed, and survives if some water/moisture accidentally gets on the paper.

I'm looking for a blue with similar properties. Well behaved and water resistant is more important for me here than amazing color, shading, etc.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

biscuit
October 17th, 2014, 03:22 PM
Oh, and the customer service person at Goulet Pens suggested Noodler's Upper Ganges Blue -- anyone have experience with that one?

reprieve
October 17th, 2014, 03:40 PM
Pilot (or Namiki) Blue. It's not waterproof, but is highly water-resistant. It has great shading, it cleans up easily and quickly when you're flushing it from the pen. It feathers a bit on cheap paper but not terribly. Pilot Blue and Pilot Blue-black are my go-to inks.

I also really like R&K Salix and Platinum Blue-black, both of which are mild iron gall inks. They work excellently on every sort of paper. They're also waterproof. They're relatively low maintenance--I think both of those inks are easier to clean up and deal with than many of the Noodler's inks (which I also like, but some of them can be finicky).

You might also check out Sailor Sei-boku, which I love. It's a pigmented ink and so is a bit higher maintenance, but as long as you don't let it dry out in your pen it shouldn't cause problems. It's been in my TWSBI Mini for months without any issues (or staining). Love the rich teal color, love the shading, and it's waterproof. Works really well on cheap paper.

Noodler's-wise, I've had good luck with Bad Belted Kingfisher. It's more of a dark navy blue. I used it to do the newspaper crossword for a while.

Waski_the_Squirrel
October 17th, 2014, 07:06 PM
For whatever reason, permanent blues are harder to find. I like Noodler's Blue, but it's not permanent.

Noodler's Baystate Blue is more permanent, but it's kind of frisky, and has a few issues of its own. Noodler's Navy is pretty, but dark, and waterproof.

I'll point you to This list of Noodler's inks by property. (https://www.gouletpens.com/v/vspfiles/files/noodlers-ink-properties.pdf)

It also occurs to me that De Atramentis has a series of Document Inks (http://www.gouletpens.com/De_Atramentis_Document_Inks_s/1609.htm) which are waterproof. I have no firsthand experience with them, but the brand itself makes some nice inks.

Jon Szanto
October 17th, 2014, 08:15 PM
Strong second on the Namiki blue. A very, very nice ink. If water-proof-ness wasn't an issue, I'd also put in a strong vote for Aurora Blue.

mhosea
October 17th, 2014, 08:33 PM
To answer the question about Noodler's Upper Ganges Blue, yes, I use it from time to time. I like it a lot, performance wise, except that the color is boring, and it spreads a little more than Noodler's Black (you'll get a wider line from the same pen), so it's not the equal of Noodler's Black on that score. It's full-on bulletproof. Good choice.

Namiki Blue is also a good choice, though I think a note written with it will fade badly if exposed to UV light for an extended time. It also spreads a little more than most. I use a mixture of Namiki Blue and Noodler's Midway Blue (2 parts Namiki to 1 part Midway) to improve the color a bit, though the Midway Blue is not water resistant, so a mess will ensue if the mixture gets wet (though a Namiki remnant is durable).

Noodler's Baystate Blue is great. Needs a little dilution to avoid feathering issues, stains anything remotely porous, and is accused of various misdeeds. It will also fade badly when exposed to UV light.

Sailor Sei Boku is my personal choice when water resistance is needed. It's one of my favorite inks, and I haven't had any problems with it. I have it in two pens at the moment, a Sheaffer Snorkel that has been inked with it for perhaps a month, and my new Sailor King of Pen Green Mozaique.

I'd be interested to try the DA Document inks.

Dreck
October 17th, 2014, 09:22 PM
Noodler's 54th Massachusetts, hands down. It's my daily-use blue, & I absolutely love it. Well-behaved, water resistant, UV resistant, & bleach resistant. Last year, I got a couple drops on one of the white shirts I wear to school, and after no less than 16 trips through the washer, the ink spots are just as vibrant & crisp as the day they first dripped.

Jon Szanto
October 17th, 2014, 09:48 PM
I'd be interested to try the DA Document inks.
I'm ordering samples either this evening or tomorrow, and a couple of those are going to be in my basket.

OTOH, I throw shoes at you for the BSB mention.

mhosea
October 17th, 2014, 10:03 PM
OTOH, I throw shoes at you for the BSB mention.

Go ahead. Can't hit me!

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/3401898489.gif

Jon Szanto
October 17th, 2014, 10:14 PM
I love it that the guy actually reloaded and fired a second shot. He was unaware that Bush had grown up in the "Duck and Cover" days...

tandaina
October 17th, 2014, 10:22 PM
I love Diamine Bilberry. VERY dark rich blue. Goes down looking almost purple, but dries a very strong deep blue. Love it. Well behaved, lovely flow, it has become my go to blue.

Bogon07
October 18th, 2014, 02:43 AM
Noodler's Blue Eel, then AirCorp Blue & maybe Liberty's Elysium. Ottoman Azure is a real eye popper too.
54th Massachusetts for envelope addressing.

De Artramenits Black-Blue

AtomicLeo
October 18th, 2014, 08:36 AM
Finding one that is well behaved and looks blue is tricky. I've been using Noodler's Bad Belted Kingfisher. It is classified as a blue black that is closer to blue. I've had it loaded up in Preppy at work and that has been a good match. Needs to be in a pen with a tight fitting cap, otherwise it turns a pen into a hard starter. I've also been trying Noodler's 54th diluted 80/20. That's a nice blue and it's water resistant. I couldn't use it with out diluting it. Turned every pen I had it in into a hard starter.

LagNut
October 19th, 2014, 09:59 AM
For the reasons you give, Sailor Sei Boku. Warterfast, (lightfast also), good manners. This has been my everyday blue for a while now. I was concerned about it clogging things, but I'm not anymore. I note that I'm not alone in this recommendation...

Color has a teal note, which I like, but some are not fond of. For the properties your looking for, this does fill the bill and has for me in that capacity for over a year.

AZBennett
October 19th, 2014, 12:05 PM
I recently discovered J. Herbin Bleu Nuit and love it. Its taken the place of Waterman's Blue-Black as my favorite Blue ink. I also like Chesterfields Night Sapphire which is a Diamine ink rebranded for Xfountainpens.com (no affilitation) I like it because I can get big bottles for relatively low prices and free shipping on orders over 15 bucks.

conib
October 19th, 2014, 01:55 PM
Is this for your Metro? If so, +1 on Pilot/Namiki Blue. (If not for your Metro, try it anyway.)

I've used Sailor nano sei-boku in a Prera "M" and in a Pilot Custom Original "M" with no problems. (However, sei-boku clogged and so was unusable in my Platinum Cool "M".) I've found that a good cleaning between fills gives better performance so in reality for me sei-boku is a higher maintenance ink than Pilot/Namiki Blue. The color is a very nice teal-ish blue with IMHO attractive shading and works well even on all the junk papers we end up using for kitchen lists. Once dry, sei-boku doesn't shed color when wet like Pilot/Namiki Blue does, so that's why it's my kitchen ink.

-- Constance

Chrissy
October 19th, 2014, 04:31 PM
You could consider Graf von Faber Castell Cobalt Blue. It is a lovely blue shade in a beautiful Art Deco bottle. The bottles contain 75ml, so although it's an expensive outlay it's price per ml is comparable to others.

shudaizi
October 19th, 2014, 04:48 PM
Like several others, I like Pilot (Namiki) Blue very often; it is not the most stunning color but I have no complaints about it in every other way. I also use: Pilot Blue-Black, Platinum Blue-Black (despite the name it's really a nice blue -- this is a mild iron gall ink), Iroshizuku Asa-gao, R&K Salix (also a mild iron gall), and (when I feel I need light-fast capability, which is not often) Scribal Workshop's Siren. All of these are fine and all have good water-resistance, with the exception of the Iro.

biscuit
October 19th, 2014, 09:06 PM
Thanks for the many good suggestions -- plenty of options to try out. For sure I'll try Namiki Blue, R&K Salix, and maybe Upper Ganges. A lot of love for Sailor Sei Boku... One pen I was thinking of using for "blue" was a Platinum Cool, but conib said that was a no-no. What about a particular pen would pose more/less trouble for a pigmented ink? Is it something about the feed structure, nib tipping size, or how airtight the cap? I wonder how it would do in a TWSBI 580. Too bad Goulet does not carry the Sailor inks anymore -- it would be nice to get a sample -- but I might just spring for a bottle based on the strength of folks recommendations. I have tried Liberty's Elysium -- the color is nice enough but it bleeds a little more than I would like (right now I have it in the Cool).

mhosea
October 19th, 2014, 09:41 PM
One pen I was thinking of using for "blue" was a Platinum Cool, but conib said that was a no-no. What about a particular pen would pose more/less trouble for a pigmented ink? Is it something about the feed structure, nib tipping size, or how airtight the cap? I wonder how it would do in a TWSBI 580. Too bad Goulet does not carry the Sailor inks anymore -- it would be nice to get a sample -- but I might just spring for a bottle based on the strength of folks recommendations.

FWIW, when I read conib's story, I thought the most likely explanation was that the pen was not cleaned thoroughly enough before switching to Sei Boku. Platinum sells (and promotes) pigmented inks that are not even the nano-pigment type, so it seems unlikely that there is anything inherently incompatible going on there. But, OTOH, the Sailor Nano-pigment inks don't seem compatible with anything for mixing. Try andersonpens.net for Sailor inks, including samples.

AFAIK, there is nothing in particular that would make a pen more or less trouble for Sailor nano-pigmented ink, although I find that if the pen is dry, the line may be too pale. Ease of cleaning is a valid consideration. I recommend using cartridge/converter pens since they can be easily flushed with a bulb syringe, and you can usually immerse the whole section with nib, feed, and all in an ultrasonic cleaner for a quick finish. The cleaner should have some ammonia in the tank with the water. If you don't have an ultrasonic, be sure to flush with an ammonia-based pen flush. That really seems to release a lot more Sei Boku from the nooks and crannies of the feed than water alone.

RudyR
October 22nd, 2014, 02:41 PM
Montblanc Permanent Blue is an excelllent ISO rated document ink. De Atramentis has the only other ISO rated document ink available. It has excellent writing characteristics and is waterproof. It is so good it might just possibly replace my favorite go to ink, Montblanc Midnight Blue (recently discontinued formula which I have 3 bottles of).

brewsky
October 22nd, 2014, 03:13 PM
Iroshizuku tsuki yo, or sailor gentle yama Dori are my first choices.

LagNut
October 22nd, 2014, 03:32 PM
On my sei-boku experience, first was in the platinum plasir, in which the cap does seal. It's the 20USD pen from platinum.

After a long trial in that, went in a sailor realo, and that pen's been drinking that ink for probably over a year with no issues.

Mike

SawtoothJL
October 23rd, 2014, 10:21 PM
I have Noodler's liberty elysium, bad blue heron and a bottle of Lamy blue. I find that the Lamy blue is more purple than blue; haven't bothered to test the water resistance of it. I haven't had an issue with the Noodler's inks in TWSBI or Sailor pens. Just My two cents

conib
October 24th, 2014, 10:43 PM
FWIW, when I read conib's story, I thought the most likely explanation was that the pen was not cleaned thoroughly enough before switching to Sei Boku.

Mike, are you saying that you've successfully used sei-boku in a Platinum Cool "M"?

-- Constance

mhosea
October 25th, 2014, 12:42 AM
FWIW, when I read conib's story, I thought the most likely explanation was that the pen was not cleaned thoroughly enough before switching to Sei Boku.

Mike, are you saying that you've successfully used sei-boku in a Platinum Cool "M"?


No, I'm not usually that cryptic. Biscuit said "One pen I was thinking of using for "blue" was a Platinum Cool, but conib said that was a no-no." That's not what you said, but somehow a piece of personal experience had just been elevated to that status of a blanket recommendation against using Sailor Sei Boku in all Platinum Cools. There are many reasons why a given pen and ink combination might not work. Usually the root cause is something specific to that particular pen (not all pens of that brand and model) which makes some inks flow well and not others. But in this case we need also to consider that Sailor nano inks are notoriously incompatible with other inks (even with each other), and some pens do make it extremely difficult to remove all traces of the previous ink. There's more than one possible explanation besides the first one that came up there.

conib
October 25th, 2014, 10:48 AM
But in this case we need also to consider that Sailor nano inks are notoriously incompatible with other inks (even with each other), and some pens do make it extremely difficult to remove all traces of the previous ink.

However, in this case my Cool had not had any ink in it prior to being filled with sei-boku -- new pen, first ink. In fact, I disassembled the section for a thorough flush prior to that first fill of sei-boku, and I can confirm that its translucent colorless feed was pristine.

-- Constance

mhosea
October 25th, 2014, 11:29 AM
However, in this case my Cool had not had any ink in it prior to being filled with sei-boku -- new pen, first ink. In fact, I disassembled the section for a thorough flush prior to that first fill of sei-boku, and I can confirm that its translucent colorless feed was pristine.

Thanks. At least that handily rules out incompatibilities with other ink.

conib
October 25th, 2014, 12:06 PM
Subsequent fills of the Cool with Platinum Black (2 cartridges, non-nano) were fine, no issues.

I then salvaged the balls from the empty Platinum Black cartridges, put one of them into the converter, and filled it with Pelikan 4001 Turquoise. That fill went fine, again with no issues.

I've continued to equip the Cool's converter with a ball, and currently the Cool is filled with Waterman Mysterious Blue. So far it's going great, with no problems.

At some point (perhaps when this fill is finished) I do plan to try the Platinum blue nano ink in my Cool.

It may be that the ball in the converter is necessary for good operation with nano ink, and if that fill with Platinum blue nano goes well I may try sei-boku again in the Cool.

-- Constance

blopplop
October 25th, 2014, 02:45 PM
Noodler's Bad Blue Heron is a daily carry for me because it's bullet proof. Also Sailor Sei Boku blue/black is another daily carry because I use it in my Bible.

I'm planning on grabbing Noodler's Aircorp very soon for daily carry too.
Dave

biscuit
October 27th, 2014, 07:25 PM
However, in this case my Cool had not had any ink in it prior to being filled with sei-boku -- new pen, first ink. In fact, I disassembled the section for a thorough flush prior to that first fill of sei-boku, and I can confirm that its translucent colorless feed was pristine.

Thanks. At least that handily rules out incompatibilities with other ink.

Perhaps some manufacturing inconsistency in the ink? Now I'm tempted to try some Sei Boku in my Platinum Cool and see how it works out. Interest of science...

mhosea
October 28th, 2014, 06:29 AM
I wouldn't know about inconsistencies in the ink. I've seen plenty of variation depending on how wet the pen is and whether there was water still in the feed when the ink was loaded from the cartridge/converter side (rather than by filling directly from the bottle). The only theory I have for why it wouldn't work has to do with the wettability of the clear feed. I've not seen anything similar with the Lucite feeds on my Parker VS's, but it's conceivable (though a bit mysterious still) that the Platinum Cool's feed might be rather particular in some respects. This wouldn't be my first or second guess, rather the only explanation intrinsic to the pen's design that I can even think of. Usually when an ink is hard-starting or "clogs" in a pen, it has to do with the cap seal, but Platinum understands this issue, and my impression is that they pay special attention to such matters.

conib
October 28th, 2014, 10:25 AM
Now I'm tempted to try some Sei Boku in my Platinum Cool and see how it works out. Interest of science...

That would be great!

conib
October 28th, 2014, 10:37 AM
it's conceivable (though a bit mysterious still) that the Platinum Cool's feed might be rather particular in some respects. This wouldn't be my first or second guess, rather the only explanation intrinsic to the pen's design that I can even think of.

If this helps in the diagnosis: I kept having to force the sei-boku into the Cool's feed (by turning the converter's piston knob); the pen would then write until the ink in the feed was exhausted -- ink would not flow into the feed unless it was forced.



Usually when an ink is hard-starting or "clogs" in a pen, it has to do with the cap seal, but Platinum understands this issue, and my impression is that they pay special attention to such matters.

The Cool doesn't have Platinum's special slip-seal cap though.

-- Constance

mhosea
October 28th, 2014, 11:31 AM
If this helps in the diagnosis: I kept having to force the sei-boku into the Cool's feed (by turning the converter's piston knob); the pen would then write until the ink in the feed was exhausted -- ink would not flow into the feed unless it was forced.


It's consistent with multiple possibilities, unfortunately, though if the pen has been working well with every other ink you have used in it, then either another try with Sei Boku will work without incident, or it will do exactly the same thing. If the former, then I would assume that the initial attempts to clean the feed did not remove all the manufacturing residues that might have been present, whereas the surfactant-laden ink followed by flushing might have done the job. If the latter, then we would be forced to accept that this ink doesn't like that feed.

LagNut
October 28th, 2014, 01:27 PM
Just to throw this info in. Both pens I've used for this ink seal, as far as I know. The Plasir seals, though some other Platinums do not. The Realo has a good seal also.

The residue I see from sei-boku is an extremely fine film. Like a fog. Wipes off with light physical pressure. If it clogged a feed, there would have to be really small passages. I wouldn't be surprised if it did change the wetting properties of a feed. I'm a little surprised a platinum feed would fall prey to this, however.

Interesting info.

Mike

conib
October 28th, 2014, 08:55 PM
if the pen has been working well with every other ink you have used in it, then either another try with Sei Boku will work without incident, or it will do exactly the same thing. If the former, then I would assume that the initial attempts to clean the feed did not remove all the manufacturing residues that might have been present, whereas the surfactant-laden ink followed by flushing might have done the job. If the latter, then we would be forced to accept that this ink doesn't like that feed.

When I'm finished with the tasks associated with the Cool's current fill of Waterman Mysterious Blue I'll clean it out thoroughly and then fill it with sei-boku again. It will be a while before I can do that though (weeks, maybe a month or longer), as my pen-ink testing plate is kind of full right now, but I'll post again with the results when it's been done.

It would still be good to have other data from other Cools out there ... hint, hint ...

-- Constance