Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

[ntopens]

Hello!

I have posted in the new members category, and am very excited to be here on such a great forum!

As I said in my intro, I have 2 Sheaffer's that I am looking to get adjusted, working properly, and ready to write.

However, I would also like to get a pen to learn to write Flex (?) style?

I have read so many posts, that I am sort of getting confused, and would appreciate any advice on getting my feet wet, without making ignorant choices in the world of Fountain Pens. I know that I like a Medium-sized pen--not too skinny, as I have a very skinny Mont Blanc--fantastic nib, just don't like the size. (It was a gift)

Here is what I am looking at:

* A new Pelikan 600 from nibs.com. As a beginning writing student, is it too much? Too big? Too expensive, since I don't know what I am doing?
* Something like a Sailor 1911?
*Some sort of Vintage pen?--I don't really know whom I should buy from, or what I should get...and, if I get a vintage pen, what about the nib?

I know I am all over the place....I don't know how to narrow down choices, or how to ask the correct questions.

The reason I was going to go with nibs.com, is because I know they will grind the nibs for me.

Since I want to learn how to write like some of you do here, I'm also needing to know what type of nib to get?

Should I go with fine or Medium? Should I start with a Stub or go straight to Italian Cursive?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

[jar]

Cursive Italic.

First I would suggest you hold off on buying any pens and instead invest that money by attending a show or pen posse (local meeting). If you will tell us where you are we can likely make suggestions.

For now, instead of buying spend time fondling. Use as many different pens as you can. Fondle, fondle, fondle.

[Laura N]

Where do you live?

The best advice possible is to make your selections and purchases from a fountain pen store (in person) or at a pen show. Whatever anyone tells you means nothing compared to how you think about the pen when you hold it or write with it.

If there is no possible way to do that, I'd recommend a simple Lamy Safari, with a selection of spare nibs, so you can see if you like extra-fine, fine, medium, broad or stub (that's their 1.1 nib). TWSBI is a good alternative to the Lamy, but it will cost you more to buy the pen and a selection of nibs.

Either save the flex pen for later, because you can't do everything at once, or just buy a dip pen at an art store and try flex that way. Remember that you can use fountain pen ink with dip pens but you cannot use dip pen ink with fountain pens.

[KBeezie]

A vintage Pelikan 140 would come with a semi-flex nib at a pretty affordable price under $100 usually, bit on the small size, but one of the easier semi-flex to obtain.

Far as smaller but not too small I really like my Pelikan M250 with a 14K Medium nib, but it's not a flex nib, feels a little soft but not something that would give line variation (most pens are not going to be flexy unless the model is known specifically for it). So vaguely with 'vintage' anything should assume the nib is going to be firm unless otherwise mentioned (many before 1935 were commonly softer with some ability to give line variation due to the spencerian script that was popular at the time).

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/M250/uncapped.jpg

However I did get a Pilot Elite (made on March 24th, 1971 according to the date code) which came with a 18K "Soft" Fine nib, ran me about $36 shipped from Japan.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/pilotelitemini/uncapped.jpg

makes for a great pocket pen and the grip is quite large (normal length of pen when posted).

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/pilotelitemini/write.jpg

It did better with Blue Steel and Liberty's Elysium.

But you can see them both in this line up (posted) for size, the Pelikan M250 at the end.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/collections/shorties_oct2014/posted.jpg

Other than a modern Noodler's Ahab, the main other pen I have with any degree of flex to it is an old BCHR (Black Chased Hard Rubber) pen, probably 1910-1920, that's a simple lever filler, has a 14K gold nib with some flex.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/moore_bchr/uncapped_2.jpg

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/moore_bchr/write_salix.jpg

Ran me about $50 on that one.

though I don't recommend getting something that flexes too easily until you learn how to handle it, and not all nibs are designed to flex 3x, 6x, 9x etc, so have to know how much is too much or you risk cracking or springing the nib.

But yea, the Pelikan 140 is a pretty safe bet unless it seems it'll be too small for you, but I find my M250 to be really comfortable, pen-wise it's not that much bigger, the nib is bigger though (but mine isn't a semi-flex).

Stubs or cursive italic if you simply want that look of line variations without the risk of damaging the nib from pressing.

[fountainpenkid]

Welcome!
If you want to improve your handwriting, you should try to choose a nib that constricts movement and forces certain motions. Some examples of nibs that do this would be sharp italic nibs, stub nibs, or normal nibs with tooth (meaning they are slightly 'scratchy') and a limited horizontal rotation range. If the nib is too smooth and ballpoint-like, you will not be forced to slow down and therefore improve your handwriting.
In terms of the pen, I think the Pelikan m600 is a great choice if you are willing to invest that sort of money into the hobby from the get-go. If not, there are a bevy of less expensive pens to choose from. The Pilot Custom 74 is much less expensive (I think ~$160) but is somewhat similar to the m600 in size and quality (both are known to have very nice gold nibs). Vintage pens are my personal favorite but things get tricky (restoration of fillers..etc.) The Parker 51 (aerometric model) is probably the safest bet in the vintage category in terms of "out of the box" reliability, and it isn't too hard to find them with modified stub or italic nibs on FPN or here. It is a medium size pen both in length and girth.
Hope this helps,

[AZBennett]

With flex you are going to get an armload of advice on starting with a dip pen as its less expensive and the nibs are far more flexible than even the flexiest of vintage FPs. I have a few vintage dip pens that are actually larger in girth but they can be hard to find. But they remain the least expensive, most flexible options.

My largest pens are a vintage Sheaffer OS Crest that has a nice girth but the nib is slightly to B for my tastes but it is a nice writer. I also have a Karas Kustoms INK that is an EDC pen for me and is absolutely fantastic, imo, in all facets.

Beginner vintage flex will get you into a world of debate that is almost unrivalled in the FP community. I tend to lean on the side if starting most affordable that way you can see what you like. That being said there can be no sibstitute for trying out a pen before you buy it. However, in the world of limited pen shops/shows a good substitute is a reputable pen restorer/repairer who provides writing samples with his/her pens. I recommend Eversharp Skylines as I have found many to have flexible nibs to varying degrees and while they taper, their barrels where you grip them have a decent girth to them though they are fairly lightweight. They are also quite affordable for a working one. Other options include the larger Moores, Waterman Commandos and larger Mabie Todds though those can be a bit more expensive.

I wish I had more advice for you hopefully your quest is fruitful.

Paul

[KBeezie]

PS: If you really want to learn flex with high performance nibs. A cheap route is something like those speedballs, or pick up a little box of Zebra-G nibs ($13 or so for 10 nibs) and a nib holder (like I have a Tachikawa Model 40). Would run you no more than $20 total.

I'm not all that proficient with using it, but you can see the difference in performance (how far it can go) compared to my fountain pens.

Ideally you want to have a light enough hand to use it without any line variation, if you can do normal writing with next to no variation then you're at a start. Because if you don't have a light hand, especially with a soft gold flex nib, you're going to crush that little sucker.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/inked/zebrag_melon_rhodia.jpg

And if you break one... you got a small box full.

[ntopens]

Thank you!

I live south of Houston, but, find it very hard to get to Houston and get around. I had not thought about pen shows, however. Good thought! Thank you. I need to look at the calendar, I guess, or just search for Pen stores. I really didn't know if they had those types of stores here in the south....

[ntopens]

What is TWSBI? I keep seeing that. Where do you find Lamy Safaris? I think I'm seeing from your post that if you buy different nibs, you can switch them out? Clever!

[ntopens]

Thank you--Oh, I appreciate the pics and the writing samples!

I think to begin with, I am not going to need too much flex, and your examples are encouraging. I know it will take a long while to write with very much line variation, and I do think I would be writing "normal" stuff with any new pen, too....you have given me much to think about....If you were looking for these pens you mentioned, where would you turn?

Thanks

[Jon Szanto]

What is TWSBI? I keep seeing that. Where do you find Lamy Safaris? I think I'm seeing from your post that if you buy different nibs, you can switch them out? Clever!

TWSBI is a relatively new pen company (around 6 or so years, I think?) that was started with a lot of feedback from the pen community. Modest cost pens, some models had production problems, but they also have very fast customer service.

There are many online retailers that carry the Lamy Safaris. It is a model that has been made for many years, and even though it is an inexpensive pen, some of the older models or rare colors have become collectors items (I consider them the "Beany Babies" of the pen world). And, yes, the nibs just pull off and push on, and each nib only costs a couple bucks. I don't always favor one retailer over another, but a great place to browse stuff like this (and purchase!) is Goulet Pens (http://www.gouletpens.com/). You'll see both TWSBI and Safaris there, along with a lot of other stuff. Have fun.

[ntopens]

OH! See, this is something I thought you guys just did with your everyday pens! Thank you--I feel like a kindergartener trying to get into MIT! LOL!!!!!!

[KBeezie]

What is TWSBI? I keep seeing that. Where do you find Lamy Safaris? I think I'm seeing from your post that if you buy different nibs, you can switch them out? Clever!

It's a brand of pen from Taiwan. I've avoided it for the most part (cracking issues etc, but excellent customer support), but there are many who love their 580, 540 etc.

A lot of pens can get their nibs swapped. Lamy will take Lamy Nibs, TWSBI will take their own nib units (But some can be pulled out and swapped with a standard #5 or #6). Some like the cheaper Jinhao X450, X750, 159 take standard #6 (so does Nemosine, Monteverde on many, Noodler's, Taccia, Bexley, etc), which allows you to get some specialty nibs made by other vendors. For example I have a Franklin-Christoph 1.9 Music nib in my Monteverde Invincia Deluxe Nighthawk, and a Goulet Extra-Fine in my Taccia Momenta, but I also had a Goulet 1.5 in my Bexley Jitterbug, and I have a Masuyama Needlepoint nib in #6 coming soon which I'll probably put in my Taccia. (they're friction fit so easy to do). Other than a custom grind with lamy you got EF, F, M, B, 1.1, 1.5 and 1.9.

I don't care for the Lamy Safari's Tripod style grip, I rather the grip be rounded like that of my Pelikan or Pilot.

The 1.9 on the Lamy looks something like this:

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/inks/liveoak_sketch_front.jpg

I sold my Safari so I don't have it anymore (so not able to compare their 1.9 to my current pens), but the above was done using scotch tape to pull the nib off and put a different nib on while it was still inked. Pretty easy to do, and the feed doesn't come out (where as with the pens that take #5 and #6, you sometimes have to pull the feed in order to re-seat it with a new nib).

I did the same thing here with my Momenta, just pulling nibs out while inked for comparison (didn't have remove the feed, just slipped the nibs in and out)

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/inks/konpeki-strokes.jpg


Thank you--Oh, I appreciate the pics and the writing samples!

I think to begin with, I am not going to need too much flex, and your examples are encouraging. I know it will take a long while to write with very much line variation, and I do think I would be writing "normal" stuff with any new pen, too....you have given me much to think about....If you were looking for these pens you mentioned, where would you turn?

Thanks


I usually got mine either in trade with other FP users or off ebay. But if you're starting out fresh and have a modern pen in mind or a popular vintage pen, I'd look at one of the reputable retails (Goulet comes to mind for modern, especially if you want a TWSBI, Lamy, etc and live in the United States, otherwise for vintage, nibs.com is a good place to look since if you have a problem they'll help you out, as will Richardspens.com )

[ntopens]

Thank you, fountainpenkid!

Yes, the Pelikan is very expensive for me...I just knew they were good pens, frankly, and seem pretty easy to fill without many hassles. Plus, of course, they, like most pens, are very pretty.
I will check out the Pilot Custom 74, as I have not recognized that one, yet, in all my searches. I will now do some searching on it. One reason that I am a little skittish on vintage, is, until I know what I am doing, I don't want to ruin a beautiful old pen, that may need more care than a clumsy newbie. (Though you may be laughing that I would trust myself with an expensive pen....maybe why I am asking you guys for advice, no? =D)

I appreciate your wisdom on the nibs. I do think one reason my handwriting is so sloppy is because I had to rush it so in school to keep up with professors. Now, there is no excuse! LOL!!!

[KBeezie]

Thank you, fountainpenkid!

Yes, the Pelikan is very expensive for me...I just knew they were good pens, frankly, and seem pretty easy to fill without many hassles. Plus, of course, they, like most pens, are very pretty.
I will check out the Pilot Custom 74, as I have not recognized that one, yet, in all my searches. I will now do some searching on it. One reason that I am a little skittish on vintage, is, until I know what I am doing, I don't want to ruin a beautiful old pen, that may need more care than a clumsy newbie. (Though you may be laughing that I would trust myself with an expensive pen....maybe why I am asking you guys for advice, no? =D)

I appreciate your wisdom on the nibs. I do think one reason my handwriting is so sloppy is because I had to rush it so in school to keep up with professors. Now, there is no excuse! LOL!!!

If you're not afraid to order from abroad, you can get a Custom 74 for about $75 shipped from Japan (takes about 3 to 4 days shipping).

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/bunkidou-shop/item/fkk-1000r-b/

I got both my Platinum Century 3776 from them for around $90 shipped instead of paying the local (United States) price of $175+.

The 742 comes with more nib options Such as SU (Stub), Waverly (WA), Posting (PO), Falcon (FA/flexy), Music (Wet broad stub), and the usual Soft Nibs in a variety of tipping sizes. About $140 shipped if importing into the US.

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/bunkidou-shop/item/fkk-2000r-b/

[ntopens]

This is so nice...you are so sweet to help me. Thank you!

I was thinking that I needed a medium nib, but, you are showing me fines! The look great! Do you find them scratchy for everyday use, though?

[ntopens]

I think you are being very wise....thank you.

I see you are Deep South Texas--I am in Texas, too, but, not too far south...

I am, of course, so excited, I am wanting to just jump off into the deep end, I think...Really, I need to breathe and take your advice!.=)

[KBeezie]

This is so nice...you are so sweet to help me. Thank you!

I was thinking that I needed a medium nib, but, you are showing me fines! The look great! Do you find them scratchy for everyday use, though?

All of mine are pretty smooth. Depends on the pen and your writing style. Most "scratch" comes from the tines being misaligned. And Western fine is bigger than Japanese Fine (Japanese F = Western EF, Jpn M = Western F, etc, Chinese tends to be all over the board but tends to lean to western sizing). The smaller the nib there may be some more feedback, but it's not scratchy, think of it as the feeling you get from a soft pencil on paper. My personal preference is western fine and smaller, but I also write smaller and with a light hand.

Some do come a little rough (just a little), but I use a 12,000 grit micro-mesh sheet with my $2 Pilot Petit1 to smooth that right up with a couple figure 8s drawn on the pad. Not something for a novice to do but hell it's a $2 pen. So now I got a rather smooth pocket pen with a Japanese fine (mainly use it when I don't want to take my nicer pens).

If you hit up GouletPens.com they have somehting call the "Nib Nook" shows you writing samples from every pen they sell, so you can compare nib sizes and looks.

[jar]

Thank you!

I live south of Houston, but, find it very hard to get to Houston and get around. I had not thought about pen shows, however. Good thought! Thank you. I need to look at the calendar, I guess, or just search for Pen stores. I really didn't know if they had those types of stores here in the south....

You are in luck. On Rice Blvd in Houston is Dromgoole's (http://dromgooles.squarespace.com/). The are great folk and also love introducing folk to fountain pens without any pressure to buy. In addition they have a pen doctor (http://dromgooles.squarespace.com/pen-doctor/) there many Saturdays during the month. Give them a call and explain you are new to fountain pens and just into exploring and fondling and see when you can visit.

[ntopens]

Thanks for those suggestions--I admit, I have been scared to go to the overseas stores. But, if you recommend them, perhaps that is the way to go...Do you like your Century? Who makes the 742?

[ntopens]

Thank you so much, Paul!
Whom do you like for pen restore or repairer?

Eversharp Skylines...I have not seen those, and will now go look!

Thanks--You know, I get so excited, and can't wait to do things, so, this first part of trying to learn is somewhat hard for me, as I am impatient. I appreciate your help, and need to slow down, and really see what you are all saying. Apparently, I'm entering a VAST world, of which I was totally unaware!

[Jon Szanto]

You are in luck. On Rice Blvd in Houston is Dromgoole's (http://dromgooles.squarespace.com/). The are great folk and also love introducing folk to fountain pens without any pressure to buy. In addition they have a pen doctor (http://dromgooles.squarespace.com/pen-doctor/) there many Saturdays during the month. Give them a call and explain you are new to fountain pens and just into exploring and fondling and see when you can visit.

This!

One of the last remaining Really Good pen stores (they are closing everywhere). You are lucky to have one even partially near you. Do whatever you can to get there (get a friend to take you, etc), because an hour in a pen store with knowledgeable people and lots of pens to try is worth weeks and weeks of typing on pen forums. DO IT!! :)

[ntopens]

Thanks for the update on where to look for the pens...I needed that recommendation, as I have been spending time going to all the places you guys go, and was wondering which ones are really right for me...though I have not been to Goulet, yet.

[KBeezie]

Thanks for those suggestions--I admit, I have been scared to go to the overseas stores. But, if you recommend them, perhaps that is the way to go...Do you like your Century? Who makes the 742?

Pilot makes the Custom 74, 742, etc. Platinum makes the Century 3776.

I liked both of my Century, but I traded them in exchange for other pens I wanted to try out (plus for me they're pretty cheap to re-obtain if I want to order it from Bunkidou again).

The first Century 3776 I got was with a Soft Fine, some small ine variation, pretty small on the line width for normal writing but much more controlled than writing with a Pilot Falcon which I found to be a little too soft for everyday writing. It did have more feedback than I expected.

Then I got this one.

But with a Japanese medium nib instead.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/3776/bourgogne/uncapped.jpg

That was nice, especially since the cap has a slip-n-seal mechanism that keeps the nib from drying out. But since I have so many pens I decided I could probably find something maybe a little more unique perhaps in the vintage department and recently traded that away as well.

The first Platinum Century 3776 I got I ended up trading for the Pelikan M250 shown above, I did some tuning on the nib (I'm able to do some minor nib repair and adjustments under Sean's tutelage since he restores most of the vintage pens I send him, but also provides me with advice and how-tos), so it's just about perfect for me, very smooth, starts right up when I uncap it, good flow, not too wet, etc.

The main pilots I like are the vintage 70s Elites that come with an 18K gold nib. Usually have to hunt them down on ebay, but I just like them as pocket pens, the grip area is also pretty large so they're comfortable to write with. I used to have some Pilot Metropolitans, those were rather nice for $15, but they found a new home in a multi-pen trade. Most of my collection right now is vintage.

Course if I was around here back in February, and Jar was about, I probably would not have been on a Chinese Pen buying binge and finding out the hard way what I liked and didn't like (I'm finally down to one Chinese pen left, if I can sell that I'll be rid of all the Chinese pens). But yea I only started collecting fountain pens back in february of this year. It's more of a collection obsession right now, but I'm at 4 german pens (Lamy 2000, Pelikan M250 ['92-96], Montblanc 225 [70s], Faber-Castell BASIC), 6 Japanese pens (two 70s Pilot Elite with 18K Soft Fine and 18K Posting, Lady Elite with 18K Fine, Platinum PTL-10000 w/ 18K Medium, and a Pilot Petit1 with Steel Fine), and 11 American pens (Sheaffer Milady Balance (30s), Touchdown x2 (50s), Snorkel (50s), Parker 51 Vacumatic (1948), Eversharp Skyline (40s), Eversharp Skyline Demi (40s), BCHR Pen (10s), Parker Ellipse (2000-2002), Tuckaway Valiant (45-47), Bexley Jitterbug). And one I'm not sure if it's American or Japanese, the Taccia Momenta, it sounds italian, but it was distributed by Ito-ya.

I must have given away about 40 Chinese pens a few months back in PIF (pay it forward) for the cost of shipping. Had fun though, wasn't the easiest on the wallet, but it was fun.

PS: Here's my Eversharp Skyline Demi

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/eversharp_skyline_demi/uncapped.jpg

Sort of writes a wet western fine.

[Laura N]

Definitely go to Drumgoole's. You will get the best pen for you. You will find great people to introduce you to fountain pens. You will be able to try what you like before you buy.

Believe me, you will save money, too. Buying in person is a much better choice than picking a pen off the internet.

[Jon Szanto]

...though I have not been to Goulet, yet.

They *just* launched a big redesign of their site, and one feature got a bit buried that would be VERY helpful to you: check out the Goulet Fountain Pen 101 (http://blog.gouletpens.com/p/fountain-pen-101.html), which is a big collection of information and essays on all the basic knowledge for getting started with fountain pens. Really great resource for beginners to all this.

[ntopens]

Thank you, jar!

I will give them a call! I should've guessed to look at Rice Blvd...why didn't that even occur to me? LOL!!! You see, I really never even think of Houston, except to watch the Texans! =D

[KBeezie]

Definitely go to Drumgoole's. You will get the best pen for you. You will find great people to introduce you to fountain pens. You will be able to try what you like before you buy.

Believe me, you will save money, too. Buying in person is a much better choice than picking a pen off the internet.

I think the closest thing to me personally is probably Chicago 6 hours away. What I wouldn't have given to actually have a pen shop locally.

Speaking of which. I would love to visit one in Japan :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gax64Flr0j0

[ntopens]

Jar,

Do you think their pen doctor can take care of my old Sheaffer's, or would you send them off to someone?

Drumgooles, that is.

[KBeezie]

Jar,

Do you think their pen doctor can take care of my old Sheaffer's, or would you send them off to someone?

Drumgooles, that is.

I used sean for most of my pen restoration ( https://www.facebook.com/pages/Write-on-Time-Vintage-Pens-Watches-Restoration-and-Service/208871225809681 )

He took the chew marks out of this one and polished it up to like-new.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/carminebalance/uncapped.jpg

And on this one, not only did he repair the vac filling and clean it up, the nib was also snapped off of the section (though the feed was still intact) and got that back together and working perfectly.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/sheaffer/tuckaway/gold_striated_valiant/uncapped.jpg

Reasonably priced (about $35-40 depending on the pen, which includes return shipping and a 1 year warranty). But I think so many people have been sending him pens, that he can't take any new orders til after the 1st of the year or so.

I think Nibs.com does servicing too, but not sure if it's strictly on the nib or the pen as a whole.

I've self-restored some of my pens such as this Touchdown (solidified sac, etc)

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/touchdown_wd/prework_disassembled.jpg

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/touchdown_wd/tdwd_final_1280.jpg

Sac and seals aren't that hard to come by if you know how to do it, and no parts are rusted/cracked (ie: FountainPenSacs.com has repair kits for the parts pretty cheaply if you ever find yourself wanting a DIY project).

[ntopens]

I loved that video--yes, I will be going to HOUSTON!

AIYIEE!

[jar]

Thank you, jar!

I will give them a call! I should've guessed to look at Rice Blvd...why didn't that even occur to me? LOL!!! You see, I really never even think of Houston, except to watch the Texans! =D

Please do that. Folk make lots of suggestions and really mean well but they suggest what THEY like. But we really are all individuals with individual tastes and needs. Sure, one way to gain knowledge is to buy stuff others like and buy what others like and buy what others like or fondle other folks pens and wait to buy what YOU like.

[ntopens]

I have that touchdown!!!!!!!!!!! I also have another, but I don't know what it is!

Wait, I think mine is a tuckaway, but it looks like that touchdown

Thanks!

[ntopens]

Those Sheaffer restorations are very, very pretty!:)

[KBeezie]

I have that touchdown!!!!!!!!!!! I also have another, but I don't know what it is!

Wait, I think mine is a tuckaway, but it looks like that touchdown

Thanks!

If it's a white dot touchdown with an open nib like that, it's a Touchdown Statesman (I think the only white dot touch down with an open nib).

By chance is your other touchdown like the green one? If so, it's a Touchdown Admiral (I still have that one, a very fine accounting nib, the black and blue craftsman went to a new home a while back).

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/sheaffer_trio/uncapped.jpg

(PS: The black and green one were also both restored by Sean).


I have that touchdown!!!!!!!!!!! I also have another, but I don't know what it is!

Wait, I think mine is a tuckaway, but it looks like that touchdown

Thanks!


Quick picture could be handy. I know that all war-time tuckaways and before world-war II did not have a clip, but they were also celluloid like mine up until 1947 when they started using injection molding which gives you those bright solid colors. So likewise that yours is a Tuckaway Touchdown from after 1947 (as opposed to being a Vac-Fill). I'm not sure of all the model names, but a picture would help.

I do like the sheaffers but I don't use them that often other than the tucky. Like Jar suggested, I was going at whatever was thrown at me, thought I was going to like some of the chinese pens, not really, thought I was going to be a huge collector in Sheaffer... not particularly. :P

At least you'll have the fortune of groping the pens in a pen shop.

What do you think of your sheaffer by the way, least in terms of how they feel in the hand?

[VertOlive]

Welcome! And definitely get to a store if you're fortunate enough to have one! One afternoon can save you from lots of disappointing purchases over the internet. You'll learn more and faster if you can lay hands on everything in the store.

Enjoy!

[ntopens]

Well, I haven't figured out how to post pictures. I like the regular sized one--the takeaway is too small length-wise. However, I think it is light, but, I don't have any ink in it. I definitely think they were purchased after the War, though. I do have a Sheaffer Desk pen probably from the 20s...but, I know it needs work...it has a lever I can't move. But, I don't think I'll get that one worked on for a while.

thank you all so much!

[tandaina]

I haven't read all the advice given. I will second the recommendation to go to Dromgoole's.

I'll also suggest, to start, send your existing pens to someone who can restore them to good working order and tune them to write well. Then learn with them. Fountain pens are entirely different to use than ball points, gel pens, rollerballs, etc. The way they are held, the fact that they don't need pressure (in fact if you push on a fountain pen the way you do with a gel, ballpoint or other you *will* damage it) means that there is a learning curve. Learn.

Flex is fun, but flex is *fragile.* Old vintage flex nibs require a very, very light and gentle hand. They can be damaged to the point of being useless by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. And by definition there is a finite number of those old flex nibs in the world, a number that will never increase, it will only decrease. They are treasures. So learn first how to use a regular fountain pen with a stiff nib. Learn to have a light hand and a soft relaxed grip.

*Then* when you can write easily without clenching, without white knuckles or putting pressure on the nib go to the Dallas pen show. There sit down at the tables of the flex folks who have pens inked to try. Let them know you are new and are looking for a good starter pen. Try many, let them help you adjust our grip even further, let them help you adjust your pressure. You may find you don't actually *like* using flex pens. You might find you like italics, or extra fine nibs. Or that bouncy (but not flexible) modern nibs are what you like.

Start small, start slow, learn, learn, learn. And take every opportunity to try things hands on. There is a huge wide world of fountain pens out there and it is wonderful. So don't rush, and enjoy. :)

[KBeezie]

Well, I haven't figured out how to post pictures. I like the regular sized one--the takeaway is too small length-wise. However, I think it is light, but, I don't have any ink in it. I definitely think they were purchased after the War, though. I do have a Sheaffer Desk pen probably from the 20s...but, I know it needs work...it has a lever I can't move. But, I don't think I'll get that one worked on for a while.

thank you all so much!

A lot of the older lever fillers are easy fix, if the lever doesn't move, it usually means the sac has ossified or turned to crud. Usually requires a good soaking in some clean water (as seperate as possible) to help loosen up the section's seal from the barrel, in which case you can move onto carefully rising out the dead sac and removing the little bits of hardened sac off the nipple. If you know the model you can usually get replacement sacs around $2 or so, including a small bottle of some sac cement (shellac) to apply the new sac onto the nipple (can also be used to dab a tiny bit around the section to seal it to the barrel, but if it's already a tight fit, I don't bother), then a little bit of talc powdered on the outside of the sac before re-insertion to keep it from sticking to the walls of the pen. And if you're lucky the lever and j-bar/etc hasn't rusted (otherwise you'll probably have to sand off the rust if it's just on the outside).

Alternatively some restoration folks charge about $20 just for re-sacing.

Posting pics can be pretty easy if you use a site like imgur.com, and then use the provided BB code link or direct image link placed into the post by clicking the picture icon and pasting the URL to the pic. If any of them are low-value pens, or not sentimental, then they may make a good DIY project (esterbrooks J are probably my favorite to work on, since they're pretty easy, often times very cheap to find on ebay in good cosmetic condition, but usually needs a new sac).

[Jon Szanto]

Karl, please be careful with the advice.

Our new member has mentioned that these are Sheaffer pens. Unlike a simple Esterbrook friction-fit section, the sections on Sheaffers can either be friction fit or threaded in, and virtually are always cemented in place with shellac. Soaking the pen does not soften the shellac, unless you soak it in hot water, not usually recommended. Therefore, heat is necessary, which - for someone brand new - can cause all kinds of problems, many non-reversible.

These sound like heirloom pens, items one wouldn't want damaged. Might easily be worth "$20", and most reputable repair people will include at least a light polishing/cleaning with that. For someone absolutely brand new to fountain pens, this could end up being a sad case of "penny wise, pound foolish".

[KBeezie]

Karl, please be careful with the advice.

Our new member has mentioned that these are Sheaffer pens. Unlike a simple Esterbrook friction-fit section, the sections on Sheaffers can either be friction fit or threaded in, and virtually are always cemented in place with shellac. Soaking the pen does not soften the shellac, unless you soak it in hot water, not usually recommended. Therefore, heat is necessary, which - for someone brand new - can cause all kinds of problems, many non-reversible.

These sound like heirloom pens, items one wouldn't want damaged. Might easily be worth "$20", and most reputable repair people will include at least a light polishing/cleaning with that. For someone absolutely brand new to fountain pens, this could end up being a sad case of "penny wise, pound foolish".

Hence need for pictures/specification, and I did specify "sentimental" as precaution. Depending on the model, if they are heirlooms, $30-40 to a professional would be well worth it.

[ac12]

@ntopens
The size of the nib you use is affected by many factors.
- How large/small you write
- Line spacing; narrow, college or wide ruled.
- Forms; small boxes = F or XF nibs
- what you are writing
- the quality of paper
- etc.

Examples
My standard nib is a Fine nib, when writing on college ruled paper.
But for my journal with wide ruled paper, I use a M or a 1.1 stub nib.
But having said this, there is no industry standard for what a F or M or B nib is. Each company has its own definition of nib sizes. I have an old US Parker F nib that writes similar to a Lamy XF nib.

Signatures look pretty neat when written with a stub vs. a standard ball tip.

[ntopens]

Thank you, tandaina, for your advice. The more I am looking, the more, I am going to try and stay away from Flex for a while....I think I want to learn the Italics first, and started practicing as you suggested with some examples I found here on this forum....I am excited to learn from the beginning....this is all such good advice. KBeezie, do you happen to have that gentleman's email that restored your pens so beautifully? I don't Facebook....so, I don't know how to email him.

Thanks

[ntopens]

When I get in from work tonight, I am going to try to post the pictures I have of my pens...not too well photographed, I also need to work on that!

Thanks--caution is in my blood on the restorations right now, but, I probably will buy that restoration book I keep seeing, if nothing else, to figure out how the pens are constructed. I have restored some old phones, but, these seem so fragile, and I know that I can easily break things...=(. But, I really appreciate the facts you have given me, as I know NOTHING about pen construction, yet...I can't seem to figure out how these Sheaffer's work...I can understand the Pelikan pistons, but, just by looking at these pens, I haven't figured out how screwing the top back down does not push all the ink out! LOL!! Much to learn!

[ntopens]

ac12,

Thanks for the info--please, could you tell me, do you write Italic/Italian? I really don't know what to call it....I thought it was Flex, but, it is not. Does your stub do Italic?

Thanks

[Laura N]

ntopens, here is a link (http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/nibs/flex_italic.htm), I hope, to some information on Richard Binder's site regarding stub, italic and flex nibs. Binder's site does not always allow page links, for some reason, so if that doesn't work, just google Richard Binder stub italic nib.

Richard's site is richardspens.com (http://www.richardspens.com/?page=pens/nibs.htm), and if you look on the left side and click on Reference Pages you will find all sorts of great information about pens and nibs, including information about your Sheaffers. When I first got back into pens I spent hours reading up there, and I still check every time I need to fix a pen. I think you'll find great reading there. He even has an e-book.

I don't know KBeezie's pen repair person for your Sheaffer, so I can't help there. If both are lever fillers, then it will be easy to find a good repairperson. If it were me, I'd send it to Danny Fudge at The Write Pen (http://www.thewritepen.net/). I have no connection, other than as a satisfied customer who knows other satisfied customers. If it's a vac filler, I'd go to Ron Zorn or Sherrell Tyree, both easily Googled, but their repair queue is very long so for simpler repairs it makes sense to try Danny. I'm sure other FPG members have other good suggestions, and there are a number of members here who repair pens like Chi Town, who is a friend (his name is Mike).

[jar]

Again, think Dromgoole's. The Pen Doctor is there many Saturdays and can lay hands on your pens while you wait.

Seriously, you need to make the Pilgrimage to Rice Blvd.

[Jon Szanto]

When I get in from work tonight, I am going to try to post the pictures I have of my pens...not too well photographed, I also need to work on that!

Don't worry about the quality of the photography, we can sort it all out. Take a shot or two of the pens, and then be sure to take at least one photo with the caps off, so we can see the nibs. This will all aid in correct identification of the models of pen you have, and then lead to good suggestions on a number of restoration people to choose from. Both Karl and Laura have mentioned some of them, and there are others, as well.

As far as a book on restoration (which could come *after* you've absorbed a lot of material on Richard Binder's site), the one book you might want to invest in is the (new) 3rd edition of "Pen Repair" by Jim Marshall and Laurence Oldfield. Nibs.com and the Fountain Pen Hospital carry it, and if you Google you'll find it at a lot of other retailers (I think even Amazon). Very, very helpful book, but - as stated earlier - lets see these pens before we say "nah, do them yourself" or "hmmm, best to let a pro fix it".

[KBeezie]

When I get in from work tonight, I am going to try to post the pictures I have of my pens...not too well photographed, I also need to work on that!

Thanks--caution is in my blood on the restorations right now, but, I probably will buy that restoration book I keep seeing, if nothing else, to figure out how the pens are constructed. I have restored some old phones, but, these seem so fragile, and I know that I can easily break things...=(. But, I really appreciate the facts you have given me, as I know NOTHING about pen construction, yet...I can't seem to figure out how these Sheaffer's work...I can understand the Pelikan pistons, but, just by looking at these pens, I haven't figured out how screwing the top back down does not push all the ink out! LOL!! Much to learn!

I had to ask him for an email, I know of his other emails used for payment and such but just had to be sure. But here's the one he's using for business contacts. He primarily deals over either Facebook or via the Forums (though he's not an active forum participant).

nicholsonenterprises[at]yahoo.com

However keep in mind that he's got a small backlog recently, so may not be able to take in any new work until the first of the year.

Also far as pictures are concern, as long as they're somewhat easy to see/read, they'll suffice even if it's just a cellphone shot, don't really need much for identification, and I've seen a worse on ebay (ie: where the pic is just a blur with what looks like a red stick in the picture... yet that's the pic they took for selling).

[Jon Szanto]

Using Facebook for your primary business front is... unusual. One thing I think his regular customers might suggest to Sean is a list of basic prices for repair / restorations. There doesn't appear to be any of that kind of information available on his page(s).

[ntopens]

Thanks, Laura!

I'm going to Richardspens right now!

I have so much to learn--thanks for you all taking your time with me!

AHHHH--I love the site! I see some things I had questions about re: nibs, right on the first page! I thought I'd been to this site before, but, I hadn't!:)

[ntopens]

Hey, Karl--thank you for the email!

You know, I was just thinking that mailing in a cold winter may not be that great for pens, and I may hold off and just get the info for right now...but, if we don't get socked into some sort of deep freeze, I think it'd be good to get the repairs going. I appreciate the email address, as well as the recommendation.

[ntopens]

Oh--I just saw the Fountain Pen 101...I went to see some essays on one of the sights, and the links weren't working, but I'm going to try your suggestion at Goblet...that is what I am needing -- 101...can't wait until I can get to Houston, though!

[ntopens]

http://i.imgur.com/8Pme4Aj.jpg

These are my two regular Sheaffer's fountain pens...can you tell about the top one? It doesn't have a dot on it. I think the little one is the takeaway.

Thanks

[AZBennett]

The top is a Sheaffer Imperial III Touchdown filler with a triumph nib. Lovely pens!

[AZBennett]

You can find info on that pen at Sheaffertarga.com
The bottom is indeed a tuckaway and I would imagine it is a vacuum filler sometimes referred to as a "wire filler".

[johniem]

Go to Dromgoole's. You'll regret it if you don't.

[KBeezie]

Using Facebook for your primary business front is... unusual. One thing I think his regular customers might suggest to Sean is a list of basic prices for repair / restorations. There doesn't appear to be any of that kind of information available on his page(s).

With the bold I agree. It wouldn't be that difficult to set up a domain and a 1-page site with basic information. Most of his business appears to be word-of-mouth. ( could even rent him a subdomain off one of my 3-letter domains :P )

Far as his prices. I had a price sheet here somewhere that was shipped back with one of the restorations. But it looks like after the 1st of the year full restorations are going to start at $45 (which includes return shipping and 1 year warranty). edit he'll be adding it to the overview section of the facebook page in the next couple of days.

There's actually two people for "Write on Time", Sean everyone knows and Ray Cornett which runs the page "Write on Time West" as he's in California, and Sean is in North Carolina. But I'm not sure if Ray does everything Sean does or if his services are more limited.

Right now, he's got so much backlog just from word-of-mouth advertising that he probably hasn't felt the need to advertise just yet, and I imagine it also helps keep the overhead low. But I do agree at least a searchable WWW page is handy to have especially for google searches, rather than just customer testimonials that show up. (Also facebook filters a lot of the traffic that search engines can see).


The top is a Sheaffer Imperial III Touchdown filler with a triumph nib. Lovely pens!

You sure it's a TD Filler? I don't see the seam for end cap, looks like it may be the Imperial cartridge version

But yea the bottom one is definitely a Touchdown Tuckaway. Valiant Tuckaway Touchdown?

Personally I'd send them both off rather than mess with them if you want them to be usable, especially since Tucky feeds are delicate.


You can find info on that pen at Sheaffertarga.com
The bottom is indeed a tuckaway and I would imagine it is a vacuum filler sometimes referred to as a "wire filler".

After 1948 Started using injection molded plastics (Forticel), they switched to the touchdown filler. Some of the 1947-8 Forticel Tuckys were vac-filler (ie: a solid color version of the '45-47 models), but most seem to be touchdowns.

[Jon Szanto]

There's actually two people for "Write on Time", Sean everyone knows and Ray Cornett which runs the page "Write on Time West" as he's in California, and Sean is in North Carolina. But I'm not sure if Ray does everything Sean does or if his services are more limited.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbq4gjDB921qe0eclo1_r8_500.gif

[KBeezie]

There's actually two people for "Write on Time", Sean everyone knows and Ray Cornett which runs the page "Write on Time West" as he's in California, and Sean is in North Carolina. But I'm not sure if Ray does everything Sean does or if his services are more limited.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbq4gjDB921qe0eclo1_r8_500.gif

Use your words.

[AZBennett]

It might not be a touchdown, I am viewing the pics on my phone as I am out and about. So the quality is limited.

[Jon Szanto]

Use your words.

That is as much as I feel comfortable with online. Consider it "registering shock" and PM me if you want amplification.

[ntopens]

Oh, thank you all--both pens are indeed bottle fillers...I have to do research on them now, and, definitely get them all "dolled" up...I actually had never even known people restored pens until I happened onto your site! LOL!! That is how new I am. I am so pumped! now, I need to learn how they work, too!

[KBeezie]

Oh, thank you all--both pens are indeed bottle fillers...I have to do research on them now, and, definitely get them all "dolled" up...I actually had never even known people restored pens until I happened onto your site! LOL!! That is how new I am. I am so pumped! now, I need to learn how they work, too!

But which kind of bottle filler? :P (lever fillers, piston fillers, touchdown fillers, vac fillers, vacumatic, button fillers, etc are all filled from the bottle)

:D

[Jon Szanto]

Oh, thank you all--both pens are indeed bottle fillers...

Ok, the serious question for you (and a photo would help us even more): we need to see what kind of filling system.

The black one will either have the back end of the barrel (the portion of the pen you hold) be able to unscrew, or it will unscrew The blue one should only unscrew to the back (away from the point). If you unscrew those, you should then be able to pull back, and it will expose one of two things: a thin metal rod, about the size of a coathanger (not likely), or a hollow metal tube slightly smaller than a pencil (more likely). If the black pen doesn't unscrew at the back but up near the tip, it will have someway to fill ink that is attached to the "section" (the part that you hold that also has the tip on it, called the "nib"). In this case there will either be a replaceable (throwaway) plastic cartridge, or some manner of refillable "converter" (these came in a couple different styles).

If you can take a pic of these pens with the filler exposed, we can give you precise information on how to proceed, and possibly a number of people you could send them to for repair and/or restoration. Keep in mind on the restore: some people like pens ultra-shiny (and some old pens come back more polished than they were brand-new), while others just like them cleaned but still showing signs of the life they have lived. The restorer should respect that.

[ntopens]

Here is my latest pic with the ends pulled out. The little Tuckaway is very tight, and I want someone to look at it before I force it out more.
http://i.imgur.com/38dle5U.jpg

[KBeezie]

They're both touchdown fillers (the thicker rods are touchdown, if it was a skinny little wire it would be a vac filler). The tucky may be tight because the sac inside either ossified or a part may be rusted (the same could be true of the black one, but isn't' being obstructed). But either way provided that something isn't rusted away or cracked, TD fillers are generally pretty easy for most repair people to repair.

PS: Just remember, don't force anything. if it doesn't want to move, just leave it alone. That way you don't risk causing more damage until it can be repaired.

[Jon Szanto]

^^ What he said.

[jar]

The Pen Doctor can likely fix both while you fondle all the other pens. By the way, he also is great at explaining repairs, tools you need and those to fake and jobs best left to others.

[KBeezie]

The Pen Doctor can likely fix both while you fondle all the other pens. By the way, he also is great at explaining repairs, tools you need and those to fake and jobs best left to others.

:P To "Fake"? You either did it, or you didn't. :P

[Jon Szanto]

The Pen Doctor can likely fix both while you fondle all the other pens. By the way, he also is great at explaining repairs, tools you need and those to fake and jobs best left to others.

:P To "Fake"? You either did it, or you didn't. :P

I think he meant "those tools that you can fake with materials you have on your own, rather than buying". Like making a wrench for the screw ring in the barrel of a Waterman Ink-Vue. But I could be wrong.

[KBeezie]

The Pen Doctor can likely fix both while you fondle all the other pens. By the way, he also is great at explaining repairs, tools you need and those to fake and jobs best left to others.

:P To "Fake"? You either did it, or you didn't. :P

I think he meant "those tools that you can fake with materials you have on your own, rather than buying". Like making a wrench for the screw ring in the barrel of a Waterman Ink-Vue. But I could be wrong.

True. Or in my case of disassembling a Pilot Elite, needs a tool to get the nipple out, but a con-20 with some good torque can unscrew it too.

[jar]

The Pen Doctor can likely fix both while you fondle all the other pens. By the way, he also is great at explaining repairs, tools you need and those to fake and jobs best left to others.

:P To "Fake"? You either did it, or you didn't. :P

I think he meant "those tools that you can fake with materials you have on your own, rather than buying". Like making a wrench for the screw ring in the barrel of a Waterman Ink-Vue. But I could be wrong.

Correct. I have removed many an inner cap with a new eraser on a #2 wood pencil and many a chrome ring that somehow got stuck in the cap of a Sheaffer "School" pen using just a paper clip.

[ntopens]

Thank you all for your help! I am glad to know what I have, and now where to go....I will have to wait a few weeks, as the store is having an event and will be crowded this week, and next week is Thanksgiving....maybe I will be able to catch up with the Pen Doctor and test pens during December.

I really appreciate all of you!

ntopens