Help please: Making nibs write; Brass shims.

[Chrissy]

I have a new Parker 45 18ct gold nib that doesn't want to write. I have examined the feed under a loupe and it looks exactly like my other 45 feeds, so I don't think that's the problem. In fact it can't be because I have tried other nibs on that feed with no problem.

The nib, however, looks a bit different to my other 45 nibs. The slits in the nibs that I regularly use, start a short distance away from the hole. The slit in this one starts at the hole and the gap narrows considerably by the time it gets to the iridium on the tine tips.

I have only one brass shim that measures less than 2cm square. I don't have a clue what grade or thickness it is. I have run it along the nib slit and out through the tines several times. The nib still doesn't seem to want to write when it's back on it's feed. I think the feed is touching the nib properly, so it must be the nib.

I have had a look around on Youtube and making nibs write.

Do I need to actually try to fold this brass shim in half while it's between the tines, and ever so carefully try to slightly part the tines at their tips? Will the shim break or will the tines cut through it? Will I still be able to use it on other pens in the future as it's my only one?

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you:)

[mhosea]

I'm not sure the problem is the nib yet. If you have other 45's, consider an experiment where you swap nibs, feeds, and sections.

[Cob]

If it does not write at all, further investigation is probably necessary. I cannot remember the layout of the 45, but I recall a Parker 51 that filled perfectly but refused to write. I remember that there is something in Parkers "accumulator" or some such name. Anyway I soaked the end for five minutes in a 50/50 ammonia/water solution and after that the pen wrote perfectly!

A more moderate technique which does work sometimes is to flush the pen a few times with cold water with a little washing-up liquid added. This has cured a couple of mine that refused to start or insisted on skipping.

Cob

[RuiFromUK]

Otherwise try to bring it to a Geek's monthly meeting for Annie to have a look at it.

Also I bought my set of brass shims from Amazon.co.uk. I can always bring it to the next meeting if you like.

[Chrissy]

I have already tried the feed with other nibs, and have had no problems with ink flow to the page.

I have tried this nib with other feeds, and ink flow to the page is either terribly dry or non-existent. I'm fairly sure it's the nib.

[Jeph]

I have had a couple of problematic Parker 45 nibs. I have never seen an 18K one though. Nice.
Goulet has a nice explanation and video here Goulet Nib Floss (http://www.gouletpens.com/gpc-brasssheets/p/GPC-BrassSheets)

[Chrissy]

I could be wrong. It's probably 14ct thinking about it.

[mhosea]

If you think the tines are pressed too closely together at the tip, you can widen them slightly with anything softer than the metal that itself is about the right thickness. I've used drinking straws for this while at work (push the tines up a little as if safely flexing the nib to insert). Another way of separating them is to bend both upwards slightly, though obviously this can sometimes cause new problems in the fit to the feed. Another thing that sometimes happens is what Richard Binder calls the inverted grand canyon. This is where the gap is wider facing the paper than it is facing the sky on the other side of the tip. In order for the nib to write, the ink has to touch the paper to initiate capillary flow, but with the inverted grand canyon (and with Baby's Bottom as well), the ink recedes from the lower edges of the tipping and doesn't touch the paper. Unfortunately, fixing that usually requires some work with pliers.

[alc3261]

Is your brass shim really thin like tinfoil or thick so you can hardly bend it?
You need 3 sizes really - the just a bit thicker than tinfoil and upwards.
I have large sheets of all 3 sizes and could send you some pieces?

[Chrissy]

Is your brass shim really thin like tinfoil or thick so you can hardly bend it?
You need 3 sizes really - the just a bit thicker than tinfoil and upwards.
I have large sheets of all 3 sizes and could send you some pieces?

I would guess that it's in-between the two really. It's the tiny square that comes in the kit that Richard Binder sells or sold on his web-site. So I have never bought a piece on it's own. In order to get it between the tines, I have had to put pressure on the back of the nib to move the tines far enough apart, so that I can get it in, but I can easily bend the shim, so that it meets in the middle, without it breaking. What worries me is that if I use some pressure whether the tines might tear it when I pull slightly if you see what I mean.

[Farmboy]

Lets try a different approach that doesn't involve shoving things in the nib slit. If the nib slit is to tight, open it by lifting the wings of the nib up and out while putting downward pressure on the nib at the breather hole.

Flossing a nib should be just like flossing your teeth. You are trying to remove debris not create a spitting gap.

Farmboy

[gweddig]

What Farmboy said. If you want, PM me and I'll send you some assorted brass. Though I have had little luck using it for nib adjustments, mainly cleaning.

Good luck!

[Laura N]

Lets try a different approach that doesn't involve shoving things in the nib slit. If the nib slit is to tight, open it by lifting the wings of the nib up and out while putting downward pressure on the nib at the breather hole.

Flossing a nib should be just like flossing your teeth. You are trying to remove debris not create a spitting gap.

Farmboy

Thank you.

[GING GING]

If there is an auto parts store near you, pick up a spark plug gapping tool.1527915280

[Wile E Coyote]

If there is an auto parts store near you, pick up a spark plug gapping tool.

It's not recommended to use the steel feeler gauges for nib flossing. Steel is much harder than gold and will scratch the gap between the tines. Either use brass feeler gauges or brass shim material.

As for spark plugs, you should use round gauges made from steel. You can't ensure a proper gap with the flat gauges and the flats of the electrodes.

[GING GING]

If there is an auto parts store near you, pick up a spark plug gapping tool.

It's not recommended to use the steel feeler gauges for nib flossing. Steel is much harder than gold and will scratch the gap between the tines. Either use brass feeler gauges or brass shim material.

As for spark plugs, you should use round gauges made from steel. You can't ensure a proper gap with the flat gauges and the flats of the electrodes.

Wile E puppy. Trying to goad me, huh? I'm referring to the second part of your response. No one cares about its automotive application so why try to correct me on it? I just wonder why you and your little buddies feel like you have to compete with me

[Wile E Coyote]

Wile E puppy. Trying to goad me, huh? I'm referring to the second part of your response. No one cares about its automotive application so why try to correct me on it? I just wonder why you and your little buddies feel like you have to compete with me

Not a puppy, full grown.

Sorry if you were offended, I was simply attempting to help. You really need to get some thicker skin.

[GING GING]

Thank you

[GING GING]

Test

[Farmboy]

One of the most difficult nib repairs is removing a deep groove on the inner face of the tines cause by aggressive ramming of an object between them. Smoothing the inner face of the tines is not the real issue, instead it is coaxing the nib back to the proper tapered gap after removing the material necessary to clean up the mess. I've seen gouges so deep the only solution would have been to weld it the slit shut and recut it. If you really want to open up a nib slit try your finger nail or something very soft or just flatten the nib and it will open up.

The feeler gauge set shown is a nice thing to have. I would have thought they were for setting the gap on the points and not spark plugs but then unless your cars are as old as mine, you don't have points to set and if your tractor is like mine, it doesn't have spark plugs.

Back to nibs...I have some very fat Vacumatic nibs just back from the shop to go shape.

[ainterne]

Hope this helps..... You can cut the shim with a scissors to straighten up the edge, but it can get sharp after cutting it, so spread the tines gently to get the shim in between the tines.

When I say don't scrape here, I mean don't run the shim down the gap without the shim being between the tines, or you will surely damage the nib.

You can bend the shim right and left, but not so much that's all. Its surprising how little you have to move the shim back and forth to make a difference. So little at a time is the best way.

I prefer initially prefer to turn the nib over and push the shoulders down while your thumb supports the nib under the feed, as has been suggested already.

Sorry about the quality of the pics, just doing this on my phone.

This is a nice link http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/?page_id=737


http://fpgeeks.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15287&stc=1http://fpgeeks.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15285&stc=1http://fpgeeks.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15286&stc=1

[mhosea]

Some thought about the geometry of nibs reveals that there are interconnections between various adjustments. You're working with a sheet of metal that has been bent. It's not actually possible to bend the tines the way that you're trying to when you use a shim to spread the tines. But the geometry of the nib adjusts to allow the shim to be there. Once you have a grasp of how the geometry changes based on various adjustments, then you can choose your strategy, but one thing you actually cannot do is just widen the gap at the tip. Something else always has to change to make that possible.

Here's something kind of fun. Make a "nib" out of card stock. You're going to make diagonal cuts on either side to form the tines, and you're going to make two cuts to create the nib slit with some width, to simulate the kerf from the saw blade. But just mark where you're going to cut. Don't actually cut it until you've rolled it so that it is curved like a nib. Then make the cuts. Now play with "adjustments" to narrow the gap. Watch what happens along the length of your "nib" when you press the tips together to get the taper that you want. Watch the wings, too. Play with adjustments. The most important one to play with is the one where you just try to pry the gap open wider by pulling horizontally at the tip. The cardboard nib won't stay in the configuration with the gap shut, but you can feel how it fights you when you try to spread the tines horizontally past a certain point. It won't fight you that much if the gap is closed at the tip, but you have to effect the reverse of the bending that occurs when you close the gap by pressing the tips together, and you're doing it from a position where the application of force is inefficient.

This idea of widening the gap by shoving something in it is wrong somehow. But it does work a little bit. It works because the geometry of the nib adjusts to having the shim there. Often the change is not lasting, and sometimes, when it is, something bad happens that does not happen with paper--the gap will narrow until the tines are sufficiently thin for them to bend horizontally, which leads to a gap that narrows to a point and then widens. Then the pen will not write for sure, not until you fix that, at least. Some folks like to pull the wings. Depending on the precise geometry of the nib, this may not be a lot different than just pushing the tines up away from the feed while pressing down at the breather hole, but pulling on the wings does have one great virtue: it's not easy to over-do it that way (whereas it is with a more direct approach). Overdoing it often means removing the nib to fix the new problem.

[ainterne]

Some thought about the geometry of nibs reveals that there are interconnections between various adjustments. You're working with a sheet of metal that has been bent. It's not actually possible to bend the tines the way that you're trying to when you use a shim to spread the tines. But the geometry of the nib adjusts to allow the shim to be there. Once you have a grasp of how the geometry changes based on various adjustments, then you can choose your strategy, but one thing you actually cannot do is just widen the gap at the tip. Something else always has to change to make that possible.

Here's something kind of fun. Make a "nib" out of card stock. You're going to make diagonal cuts on either side to form the tines, and you're going to make two cuts to create the nib slit with some width, to simulate the kerf from the saw blade. But just mark where you're going to cut. Don't actually cut it until you've rolled it so that it is curved like a nib. Then make the cuts. Now play with "adjustments" to narrow the gap. Watch what happens along the length of your "nib" when you press the tips together to get the taper that you want. Watch the wings, too. Play with adjustments. The most important one to play with is the one where you just try to pry the gap open wider by pulling horizontally at the tip. The cardboard nib won't stay in the configuration with the gap shut, but you can feel how it fights you when you try to spread the tines horizontally past a certain point. It won't fight you that much if the gap is closed at the tip, but you have to effect the reverse of the bending that occurs when you close the gap by pressing the tips together, and you're doing it from a position where the application of force is inefficient.

This idea of widening the gap by shoving something in it is wrong somehow. But it does work a little bit. It works because the geometry of the nib adjusts to having the shim there. Often the change is not lasting, and sometimes, when it is, something bad happens that does not happen with paper--the gap will narrow until the tines are sufficiently thin for them to bend horizontally, which leads to a gap that narrows to a point and then widens. Then the pen will not write for sure, not until you fix that, at least. Some folks like to pull the wings. Depending on the precise geometry of the nib, this may not be a lot different than just pushing the tines up away from the feed while pressing down at the breather hole, but pulling on the wings does have one great virtue: it's not easy to over-do it that way (whereas it is with a more direct approach). Overdoing it often means removing the nib to fix the new problem.

Great suggestion.... I have tried many times to make nibs out of the shims for fun. I haven't tried card before. It's amazing how difficult it is at first because of the different effects that happen even when you cut to make the tines and how they react. I finally figured out how to do it and then put them in my nib holder and amazingly enough I could write with them. When I say write, I mean with virtually no pressure and very slowly, not real writing...lol... With regards to your comments above, once the nib is out and you put the shim just below the breather hole and ease the tines apart, there will be a slight increase in the gap. The biggest problem I see though is that for many pens I have seen the radius of the nib does not exactly match the radius of the section and have been coaxed in. Once the adjustment of the tines has been made then the nib being flexed (coaxed) back into the section on the feed changes everything that's been done. So it can take multiple attempts to get the nib and feed set correctly for max flow. The very fact that the nib has been coaxed into the section is as you know a big reason for cracked nibs and so personally I don't like repeatedly taking them in and out unless the nib is correct for the section.

Below my main point was not damaging the nib. Many people told me when I started that it was an expensive hobby to get into because of all the mistakes that would be made learning how to work with the materials. I tried very hard no to make those mistakes by going very slowly and thinking hard about what might happen when I did something. I have not made mistakes from doing the obvious things, but I have messed up by dropping sections and cracking off the nipple for example... I just hate that. I have however seen many nibs that have been butchered and people have tried to put abrasive paper in between the tines in the hope of removing material.
The problem is that in most cases they curve the material on the inside edges of the nib and then it's pretty much a goner....

I hardly ever buy new nibs unless they are dip nibs. With those there is always a coating on the nib and it has to be removed before he nib will work. So I put a lighter flame under the nib for a few seconds on the top and bottom of the tines and that normally does the trick....... Is it the same on Pen nibs? Do they come with any protective coating, other than a smear of oil or similar? I only buy old nibs so I have never really looked into it.

[Annie]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

[Farmboy]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I like this approach, you have the priorities in the correct order: drink, eat, play pens. A few of us (Jon and I for example) would substitute Scotch for the beer and reorder a bit making it drink, eat, drink, fix nibs, drink, tell stories and drink. It would be almost like a pen show if you manage to lose your voice.

[Cob]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I like this approach, you have the priorities in the correct order: drink, eat, play pens. A few of us (Jon and I for example) would substitute Scotch for the beer and reorder a bit making it drink, eat, drink, fix nibs, drink, tell stories and drink. It would be almost like a pen show if you manage to lose your voice.

I have to say that experience tells me that it is better to play with pens before tackling the Scotch!

Cob

[Jon Szanto]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I like this approach, you have the priorities in the correct order: drink, eat, play pens. A few of us (Jon and I for example) would substitute Scotch for the beer and reorder a bit making it drink, eat, drink, fix nibs, drink, tell stories and drink. It would be almost like a pen show if you manage to lose your voice.

I have to say that experience tells me that it is better to play with pens before tackling the Scotch!

Cob

Oh, Cob, don't be a scaredy-cat! :)

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/FP/greg_jon_scotch_zps3f4ee617.jpg

[gweddig]

I think that should be the banner for the 2015 show.

[Cob]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I like this approach, you have the priorities in the correct order: drink, eat, play pens. A few of us (Jon and I for example) would substitute Scotch for the beer and reorder a bit making it drink, eat, drink, fix nibs, drink, tell stories and drink. It would be almost like a pen show if you manage to lose your voice.

I have to say that experience tells me that it is better to play with pens before tackling the Scotch!

Cob

Oh, Cob, don't be a scaredy-cat! :)

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/FP/greg_jon_scotch_zps3f4ee617.jpg

Wonderful picture Jon.

It is, as I am sure many will agree, surprisingly easy to cock something up on a fountain pen, even when entirely sober. The Scotch (I received a very nice bottle as a Xmas present...) simply serves to make one even less risk-averse!

Rgds
Cob

[Farmboy]

More like a little 'medicine' to steady your hands.

[Cob]

More like a little 'medicine' to steady your hands.

Just popped a slug into my coffee; the perfect thing for a horrid, dark, damp, English, January morning!

Cob

[Hawk]

If there is an auto parts store near you, pick up a spark plug gapping tool.

It's not recommended to use the steel feeler gauges for nib flossing. Steel is much harder than gold and will scratch the gap between the tines. Either use brass feeler gauges or brass shim material.


As for spark plugs, you should use round gauges made from steel. You can't ensure a proper gap with the flat gauges and the flats of the electrodes.

I totally argee. The feeler gages are for setting points on a distributer or other machining uses.

[Hawk]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

Darn, I would like to join you for your meeting but it would be an expensive, long distance venture. Working on nibs would be fun also.

[Chrissy]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I have been trying to get to a meeting. It's just that it's so awkward being on a Saturday, and being 2 hours journey away from where I live.

[Cob]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I have been trying to get to a meeting. It's just that it's so awkward being on a Saturday, and being 2 hours journey away from where I live.

Come along now! It takes me two hours - actually a little more!

Cob

[Chrissy]

Come along now! It takes me two hours - actually a little more!

Cob

Yes, I rounded down. Two hours would be the very minimum for me on a perfect, no delay journey. I wish they were on Sundays.

[ac12]

Call a Pen Posse.
Make it a date and place that is convenient for you and others, and go for it.