Parker 41 Debutant that is in fact a 51?

HI all. I picked up what i assumed was a parker 41 debutant in turquoise with a fish scale cap - it was advertised as a 51 but i just assumed this was operator error and went ahead and bought it as it was clearly not a 21 (not a fan) and i know that this style was picked up by the 21 after the demise of the 41.
However on closer inspection it is marked on the filler sleeve as a 51 ( see pics) and is identical in hood and barrel shape to a 51 demi.
The demi cap will not fit on to it, and the clutch is that of a 41/21 but the fish scale cap fits perfectly.
I understand that the fish scale caps were used on the 21 after the 41 was discontinued but i have never seen a 51 barrel and hood in the tourquise, and it would seem quite the coincidence if they just happened to be correct and somewhere in their travels found a 21 cap.
Im also pretty certain that the barrel and cap are not custom made as when the pen came to me it had 50 years worth of crud and ink and staining, and has now been cleaned up. I have not tried to take the hood off as I know this colour if parker plastic is brittle, and im a great believer in if its not broke dont fix it, but i have sonically cleaned it flushed it and re polished the hood and barrel this afternoon.
So does anyone know if there was some transition between the 51 demi and the 41, or if there might have been some sort of concept for a 51 to look like this and this was a one off ( i know that the 41 turquoise and other bright colours was meant to attract the ladies with the bright colors and pretty caps that the 51 demis did not have).
The nib looks to be octanium.
What ever the out come im thrilled with the pen as i think its cool, but im very curious ( and unsure wheter to put it in with the 51s I have or in the parker pre 1960 case (first world problems lol).
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That 51 filler sleeve is quite anomalous indeed. The correct filler sleeve of this pen should either have a "Parker 41" or simple "Parker" imprint.

You mention that the pen is "identical in hood and barrel shape to a 51 demi" but are the overall dimensions of the pen (length and girth) correct for a regular 41?
If so, the most logical explanation is that the filler sleeve is a replacement. A wrong mount from the factory can not be excluded, it is less likely but you never know.

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Originally Posted by jos

That 51 filler sleeve is quite anomalous indeed. The correct filler sleeve of this pen should either have a "Parker 41" or simple "Parker" imprint.

You mention that the pen is "identical in hood and barrel shape to a 51 demi" but are the overall dimensions of the pen (length and girth) correct for a regular 41?
If so, the most logical explanation is that the filler sleeve is a replacement. A wrong mount from the factory can not be excluded, it is less likely but you never know.

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I did wonder about that, the hood and barrel dimensions are exactly the same as a 51 demi - i dont have a 41 to compare with but when i tried to swap barrels on a demi and this pen , they swapped and fitted perfectly on each other ( cocoa 51 demi ) excepting the clutch diameter is different you could happily swap the barrel with another 51 demi if that makes sense. Length and girth of barrel and hood are identical to the 51 demi ( the 21 is larger in all aspects).

This is what a P41 feed should look like.

All P41 were fitted with Octanium nibs

If you are happy with it, I would keep smiling and enjoy it.

( you really do not want me telling you that is a combination of 3 different pens )

I would indeed keep smiling and enjoy it. That is a beauriful cap and barrel on that pen, and the combination is very beautiful. I am envious. I bid on Parker 41s in various colors with a cap like that one, and I was always outbid. I hope you enjoy that pen, it is very desirable. Congratulations.

Whether the nib be octanium or gold, these nibs have that Parker tipping like the 51, and that tipping and the finishing effort put into it made a surface that gives the smoothest writing I have experienced. I have rarely found a Montblanc or Pelican that comes close to it. Some of my 51s, full size or demi, are sublime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martinjfrost

I did wonder about that, the hood and barrel dimensions are exactly the same as a 51 demi - i dont have a 41 to compare with but when i tried to swap barrels on a demi and this pen , they swapped and fitted perfectly on each other ( cocoa 51 demi ) excepting the clutch diameter is different you could happily swap the barrel with another 51 demi if that makes sense. Length and girth of barrel and hood are identical to the 51 demi ( the 21 is larger in all aspects).

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The barrel of the 51 Demi indeed fits on a 41 section but the 51 Demi barrel is slightly thinner, which is the reason why the 51 demi cap is too small for a 41 barrel. Also the barrel of the 21 Super fits on a 41 section while the barrel of the regular 21, the earliest version of the 21, is slightly wider than that of the 41. There is not much difference between the 41 and the 21 Super, except for the clutch ring. So the transition of the 41 was not towards the 51 Demi but towards the 21 Super.

That was some reply, jos