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Although I have already shown this photograph in another topic, I think it should have its own thread for ease of finding and to serve as a reference.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...52bf24fa_o.jpgPelikan Füllhalter 1929-1965 by C.M.Z, auf Flickr
C.
Which of these accept the same nibs as each other? I'm guessing all the 100s are the same plus all the 400s?
And it would be churlish not to say what a gorgeous photo and what a great collection.
That's correct.
unique nib collar - Pelikan 1929
same nib collar - Pelikan100 1931-44
unique nib collar - Pelikan 100N
same nib collar - Pelikan 140, 300, 400, 400N and 400NN (but Pelikan 140 nibs and feeder are shorter)
Thank you.
C.
Lovely photo Christof. Do any of them have flexible nibs?
Yes, a few have.
...for example this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/4485/3...c88950de_k.jpg
It's a quite uncommon Pelikan 100N nib, probably prewar and maybe of italian origin. The material is super thin and the nib quite flexible because of that.
Usually, the prewar nibs are more flexible than the 1950's nibs. But only a few are really flexible in terms of Waterman's, Swan, Conklin etc...
https://live.staticflickr.com/4891/4...cc3ec442_k.jpg
Most of the Pelikan nibs are just semi-flex.
C.
Thank you so much. I was considering a Pelikan but as I love super flex nibs, I will focus on other brands :)
I keep coming back to look at this - they just make me happy.
I know it's chronological, but I wish the 140 and 300 were before the 400s just for the look - in fact I'd probably flip the last five completely.
According to this site:Quote:
Quote:
“It's a quite uncommon Pelikan 100N nib, probably prewar and maybe of italian origin. ”
https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com...ibs/index.html
your nib must have been of swiss origin. Exactly this logo is said to have been the Pelikan trademark in Switzerland back then.
It looks wonderfully preserved and writes outstandingly. The most fascinating is that it can bear such long time lasting pressure control without occasionally behaving erratically (too wet, too dry).
Hope this can help.
Thank you for your comment. Of course I know Dominics site.
(Maybe you noticed, I support his site with many of my photos...and in fact, the nib with the "P" logo which is shown there is my nib :) )
But may I ask you, where exactly you found the informations about swiss origin and Pelikan trademark for Switzerland? I couldn't find it...
Thanks again.
Thanks for your question. I found it here, under section “Special nib embossings” - hope I got it right:Quote:
Originally Posted by christof
https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com...929/index.html
I am just quoting and (hopefully correctly) interpreting what I found there. I have no personal experience and did no individual research in swiss made or marketed vintage Pelikan pens.
Hope this can either help or become a reason for further research.
Thank you for the clarification.
Actually, the english translation differ a littel bit of the original German text. As far as I understand it, the statement is the following:
The meaning of a single "P" cannot be assigned more precisely, as well as nibs with a double border around the Pelikan lettering.
The "P" was registered as a Swiss responsibility mark by Pelikan in December 1957.
I understand the second sentence as a note or remark without any claim to probative value in context of the origin of these nibs. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not claiming one thing or the other, but I am sticking to the facts, which are described as follows; The meaning of a single "P" cannot be assigned more precisely
I know of a few products that Pelikan produced in Switzerland, such as ink or Pelikanol. There is evidence of this. However, I am not aware of any production of nibs.
From this point of view, your statement: "...your nib must have been of swiss origin. Exactly this logo is said to have been the Pelikan trademark in Switzerland back then." is more of an assumption, right?
BTW: I find discussions like this interesting. Thank you.
C.
Thank you, Christof. It’s more of an “educated guess”. Perhaps I should have written “of swiss market share” instead of “swiss origin” to be exact and more correct - thanks for reminding me of the power of words. AFAIK, the Pelikan nibs have been mostly officially forged in-house, at the Hannover Factory beyond 1934. (On another forum I’ve opened a thread about the origin of their nibs 1929-33).Quote:
Originally Posted by christof
Pelikan has nevertheless been one of the companies who found its pen-market niche thanks to the ingenious engineering, modular design, high tollerance parts manufacturing and cleverly outsourcing some segments of the production back then, so I wouldn’t be that surprised at all to learn they might have also established a nib production facility in the “world hub of precious metals”, which was and still is Switzerland.
As for the aforementioned nib, what evidence do you have of its possible italian origins? Is there a consistent evidence on the nib itself that may determine any particular Pelikan nib origin?
I also like such discussions and find them good for sharing knowledge.
Thanks a lot!
To me this would be more than surprising. I am doing research about pen industry in CH sind more than 10 years and hav not found the smallest hint of a Pelikan nib manufacture. Even pen manufactures were only few and small ones here in Switzerland.Quote:
....so I wouldn’t be that surprised at all to learn they might have also established a nib production facility in the “world hub of precious metals”, which was and still is Switzerland.
(Please do not forget that a gold refinery has nothing to do with a spring manufactory. The comparison is somewhat similar between a steel mill and a car factory)
well... only three things:Quote:
As for the aforementioned nib, what evidence do you have of its possible italian origins? Is there a consistent evidence on the nib itself that may determine any particular Pelikan nib origin?
1. Extremely flexible nibs like these were rather atypical for the Swiss market at that time. One of the most important pen brand for the Swiss market (Soennecken) never offered nibs like that. Pelikan didn't as well, except this nib. But in Italy, flexible nibs were very sought after until the 1960's.
2. The The indication of the gold content in thousandths (585) is rather typical for the Italian, not Swiss market.
3. Tom Westerich is sharing my opinion.
Well, that's all. No proof, I know...just a thought.
C.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Of course I know what is a nib and how it works, I wrote this with a thad of humour. Yet if there ever was a country famous for continuosly setting world standards in high quality precision mechanics, or “spring manufactory”, as you may prefer calling it for the sake of semantics, what country was it if not the Swiss Confederation?Quote:
Originally Posted by christof
(:
1.
To go back on topic, the facts you discovered about comparative market demand sound truly interesting. Great!
2.
I always thought the “585” (or “750” respectively) ppt embossing was adopted by Pelikan since 1937, and stayed so as standard on about any of their nibs for any national market.
3.
Tom Westerich is a very credible person, with great hands-on experience IMHO.
Seems that many attempts to “reverse engineer” parts of the pre-WWII Pelikan history, even by most expert researchers, still often have to rely on indirect or circumstancial evidence.
(:
Fact. Seems that my argument on this point is weak.Quote:
2.
I always thought the “585” (or “750” respectively) ppt embossing was adopted by Pelikan since 1937, and stayed so as standard on about any of their nibs for any national market.
C.
Fantastic pictures as always Christof.Quote:
Originally Posted by christof
I’ve always wondered how unique Pelikan production in Italy was compared to production in Hannover. I have only seen Milano pens (as I have never owned one), but as I understand it the body of the pen is one piece whereas German production was comprised of two pieces implying, at least to me, the pen bodies were produced in Italy. Do you know if the nibs and pistons were produced in Italy or were they shipped in from Germany? Or was the plant in Hannover producing nibs that appealed to an Italian customer base.
I’ve similarly wondered about the pens that have the milled cap bands which I’ve been told were a sign the pens were put together in Danzig. Supposedly Danzig didn’t produce parts but if that’s the case why did they use a different band on their caps? Trying to figure out through deduction and logic the choices Germany pen manufacturers made is an exercise in futility (why did Pelikan make the green-green variant of the 400? Why did Montblanc make the 138? Why did Soennecken insist on every part of their pens being the made from the most expensive material?). I’m glad they made the choices they did, but very few modern businesses would make similar choices.
Is there any other differences between a 100n with the two cap bands vs the single cap band?.....(Found out later it was a 100, which is a bit longer than a 100n.)
I have one with the two cap bands, and tomorrow I'll be picking up a slew of pens from a live auction and one is a 100 with one cap band. Not the 100n I thought it was. It's a somewhat larger pen than my 100n.
It has a CN nib...seems to be only regular flex; not one of the mythical semi-flex or superflex CN nibs.
My 'spare' CN nib is only regular flex, so I was not hugely disappointed when I tested the nib.
https://i.imgur.com/SXx7eYC.jpg
The Pelikan 400nn's nib says KF.....and having other K nibs...a Osmia KM, a Geha KM and an MB 234 1/2 Deluxe KOB,..... all having a ball on top of the stubbed nib.
This one don't............luckily I'd had a couple Geha School fountain pens, with FK nibs....that was a nib with the 'American Bump Under'.
In many of the German pens that made semi-flex nibs made them in stubs.
My 120 has half that American Bump Under but was flattened half way down the nib (sort of a semi-stub)......the Geha school pen is a full round under bump. The K of the FK was the bump under.
This FK nib looks very much like the '82-97 400/200/600/800's nibs, with the little bump underneath.
But it is semi-flex.
The mechanical pencil ... Auch-Pelikan D.R.P. is from 1934-36.
The black K200 ball point is W.Germany. I have a set of FP.MP &BP(K200) in marbled blue with price stickers. M200-DM 75m (MP) D-200 DM-58 (BP) K-200 DM53.
Can any one date the dome 200, where you have to twist off the top to see the Pelikan part holding the clip ring?....is a 481 from 1983-85.........a link to Applebaum set me straight.
https://i.imgur.com/SXx7eYC.jpg
Just in case someone was interested the wild looking pen is pre -war Osmia mdl 22 is a push button that needs a new sac and more than likely repair of the button.
The little black Osmia/Faber Castell a is 52 BB semi-flex # 2 sized nib. Now loaded with Edelstein Olivine; a very good shading ink, in such a wet wide nib.
The 100 (is one) Patent Pelikan on the dome (a bit longer than my 100n)...Could be a matching pen from '34-36 like the Auch-Pelikan MP.
I guess the CN nib was a replacement after the war started, had been at least semi-flex more than likely maxi...and missing tipping on one tine:rain:, so I am glad I have the spare nib even if it's only regular flex. The green Pelikan lines on the top of the pen is clean and clear.
And the wife did claim the blue stripped Pelikan RB.:kiss3: