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Hello! So I was browsing online and I happen to come across several videos for intermediate fountain pens. And in almost every video, the lamy 2000, and the pilot Vanishing point came up. So is there any specifications or preferences that makes one the better choice? I have seen multiple people use the VP, but also many people praising the 2000. So is there anyone who can help?
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Both are very popular and interestingly, both have about 50+ years of history behind them.
It's almost impossible to predict which one will a person prefer since both are good pens, and comparable in price. It all comes down to a personal preference after trying both.
For me, personally, I prefer the VP especially the resin, sleeker, vintage versions. The click mechanism is unique and has a feeling that is very unlike a ballpoint (which at first I equate to, mistakenly).
The L2K is just a good pen with bland styling to me (the very same reason why others love it to no end :) ).
Yup, I am completely the other way round from Penwash. I adore my Lamy, I can't get on with the VP at all.
Getting yourself to a pen show, a pen club or posse or meet, or a bricks and mortar shop is probably your best bet to find out which you will fall for.
IMHO: The Lamy 2000 piston-filler in Makrolon is a milestone in pen design, like a 146, a Parker 51, a VW Beetle or a GG1 locomotive.
Preferences vary when it comes to tools we use with our hands, such as pens, but I think it may be possible, by experiencing a number of different pens, to predict with some reliability what pens one is likely to prefer.
I bought a number of lower cost pens of different types to get a sense of my preferences before buying my first fancy pens.
I noticed I tended to enjoy, and write better with, some pens than others. I was curious if I could correlate that with measurements.
So far it appears my favorite pens share similar weight and grip diameters. I notice my favorite pens have little or no step transition too.
Using the measured info I selected my first big purchase and it is now my favorite pen.
The VP and Lamy 2k are both on my short list of next big pen purchases, also.
Despite measurements I can't tell if I will like the VP because of the clip but I have a traditional tripod grip so it probably will be no issue. And the VP seems in line with pens I like in other ways.
Meanwhile, I can tell the Lamy 2000 is likely to be a pen I will enjoy as it is similar in key aspects to several of my favorite pens, ergonomically.
Both are well-regarded pens. I have enough of a sense of what I like that buying either sight unseen isn't a big risk. I can always sell them.
If you have the money and you feel the risk is low enough to try one or both, go for it.
I think the Lamy 2000 and the Pilot VP are both intermediate between acceptable and excellent. They are reliable, they have different styling. I have other pens I like more, so I use these little.
To be fair, the same accolades can be applied to the Pilot VP. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FredRydr
It takes ingenuity to make such an effective capless design for a fountain pen.
You will either like writing with a pen clip between your fingers or you won't. On the other side of the coin, the little "ears" on the Lamy 2000 between the section and the barrel annoy some users too.
I've never really understood what factors go into a preference. For example, while I mostly write using a forefinger up grip - the classical grip in other words - it is but a momentary effort to change it to the kind of tripod grip that would place the forefinger to the side of a VP clip. It feels no less comfortable.
Further to this I don't position my fingers at the same point (forward/backwards) on every pen, often differently on the same pen.
The reason I bring this up is that I find it totally baffling when people talk about only being able to hold a pen one way. But that's just me (or so it seems from this and other boards).
David, I can relate to your description. I too, don't pay any special attention to what kind of grip I'm employing when writing. I just write and sketch, and I found out that I don't have to do any special modification to my grip to write with the VP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds
About the only pen that I just can't write with is Sailor Chalana. Even the tiny Eversharp Bantam is more comfortable than that thing. I'd be very irritated if I had to use that pen for a long stretch of time.
About grip, I recently ran across someone interested in fountain pens with the most bizarre grip I have ever seen in my life, fingers splayed every which way.
If there was a grip designed for maximum discomfort, least endurance before pain set in, and guaranteed to cause lasting orthopedic damage, this must be it. [emoji33]
I make no assumptions now...
I should clarify my post in case the above was related.
I find my hand cramps quicker with grip diameter smaller than about 9mm.
Also my handwriting really sucks. It is wildly inconsistent and often illegible unless I take my time. I find that I am able to write more consistently, comfortably, and legibly with some pens and not others. I enjoy writing more when I don't hate how my writing looks. So that's the basis for my preferences.
Finally my education is in engineeing, I am a fan of science-y stuff and my curiosity often leads to experimenting and measuring and quantifying and such.
Those two pens came-up a lot for me, too, in my back-and-forth musings on what to get first, as I began to get interested in a higher-level pen. I was able to try a Vanishing Point in a shop, and based on that experience I would say that I do not -- personally -- particularly care for the pen. Perhaps it was the ink they had in the pen, but I have to say I was not terribly impressed with the line quality. Good, yes, but I was expecting more, I think. Also, I just can't get past the weird placement of the clip. In the short time I had to demo the pen, I can't say that it got in the way as much as I'd kinda expected it to, but it was still there, and I did find it very mildly bothersome. Also, I've taken something of a dislike to cartridge/converter fill, at least for my nicer pen acquisitions. I feel that if I'm going to spend the money on a nice pen, I want it to be a piston, vacuum, or eyedropper fill. Finally, I just feel that a fountain pen ought to have a cap. I know that's a bit of a perhaps silly thing to say, and I know that most people probably won't agree with me on that point, but that's just how I see it.
With all that said, I'd certainly take a Vanishing Point if someone gave me one :-) It's a nice pen.
For me, though, between the two, I like the Lamy 2000. I just ordered one for myself and can't wait to start using it. I just think it offers a better experience, and a better overall aesthetic, for about the same amount of money.
Either way, though, I don't think you can really go "wrong," per se. I think for the most part it has to come down to your preference. I mean, if you really like the idea of the convenience of a click pen, then get the Vanishing Point. But if that's not a big consideration, I'd think very carefully about the decision. If you don't care about that aspect, and want a Pilot, consider something like a Custom 74 or a Heritage 92. Those are both excellent pens, with the 92 offering one of the least expensive options for a 14k gold-nibbed piston-filler.
Good luck!
I really like my Lamy 2000. I got it with a medium nib, and it has just a little give to it - just the way I like it. It's not flashy, but that's okay.
I haven't used a Vanishing Point so I can't comment on that pen.
What is an "intermediate pen"?
Relating to the two pens you mentioned I sold or gave away both.
Expensive enough to require apprehension to buy; inexpensive enough not to likely be impossible for most fountain pen enthusiasts. While some of us can buy a Sailor Reala or a Mont Blanc 149, many can't, but still want a high-quality fountain pen experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by jar
Based on my Lamy 2000 experiences, I would definitely put it in this intermediate category, and the Vanishing Point seems a good candidate too (I'm tempted to give one a try even though I have a Reala and a 145 [the 149 seemed bigger than I wanted]).
Well if price is the basis to define Intermediate there are a brazillion more options than just those two. There is the Sailor 1911 L & S or the Pilot 743, 742, 74 or the Platinum #3776 or the Pelikan M400 or ...Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoJimExpensive enough to require apprehension to buy; inexpensive enough not to likely be impossible for most fountain pen enthusiasts. While some of us can buy a Sailor Reala or a Mont Blanc 149, many can't, but still want a high-quality fountain pen experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by jar
Based on my Lamy 2000 experiences, I would definitely put it in this intermediate category, and the Vanishing Point seems a good candidate too (I'm tempted to give one a try even though I have a Reala and a 145 [the 149 seemed bigger than I wanted]).
Well, this may be because you are quite dextrous with fine motor skills in the hand and arm and have fabulous handwriting as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds
Writing physically for me all my life has been a struggle, and it still is. I have trouble understanding why people can't hit kick serves in tennis, but I recognize we are not all born with that large motor ability.
:)
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I guess it's like any skill - learning the fundamental part makes doing anything else much easier. While I was taught to use a classic grip, the key part (IMO) is the lightness of it. This really minimises any chance of fatigue and allows one to concentrate on letter forms. Well, I am okay with the gripping part but not so diligent in forming my letters (lazy).
There are lots of other pens, but I think one of the big things with both the Lamy 200 and the Pilot capless is that they have a huge community of users and fans. If you buy either of those pens, you'll immediately belong to one huge fan club. And both are eminently collectable, though the L2k family is a bit smaller (I have 11, including ballpoint and mechanical pencil models).
As for gripping pens too hard, tell me about it! It takes a long time to learn to relax. But a classic grip, good posture, and a reasonably wet nib and ink all help - and above all, having a fountain pen rather than a grudging, sticky ballpoint :-)