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Thread: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

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    Default Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    I am very new to fountain pens. I wanted to go for a cheap one to see if I would like it at first so I purchased a Jinhao 159 and some ink samples. I was able to fill up the ink the first time with no problems and it wrote great. But after I cleaned it out (with water) and replaced the ink (I have tried many different types) a problem arose. The ink will not flow onto the paper unless I am using the backside of the nib. The only way I have been able to get it to flow from the correct side has been to push the ink through using the converter every few lines or so. I do not understand what is wrong. I have tried different inks, I have cleaned the nib and the feed. The only thing I am doing kind of weirdly is that when I am filling the converter I take the converter out and dip it right into the ink (since I have very little volume), but after that I pump it through to get it started at the beginning. Any idea what the problem could be?

    Thanks for the help~!

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    You state that you cleaned the nib and feed. How did you do this, did you remove the nib and feed or did you flush the nib and feed. If you removed the nib and feed it is possible that you did not seat the nib and feed far enough into the section upon reassembly.

    Just a thought....
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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Hey, kmanic, and welcome.
    I'm no expert, and I don't own any Jinhao pens, but here my two bits.
    I started out kind of like you, though. I wanted to see if I'd really like fountain pens, but didn't want to make a huge investment until I was sure. The problem with that mindset is that too many of the cheaper (i.e. less expensive) pens really are cheaper (i.e. made poorly). There are folk here who love their Jinhaos, and other people love and enjoy equally inexpensive pens. I strongly suspect, from personal experience, that quality with these pens is rather hit and miss. It may be that you have a lemon, but it's encouraging that it does work at all, so that may not be the case.
    I would recommend flushing the pen with a pen cleaning solution. The recipe I use is one part ammonia to ten parts distilled water, and one drop of dishsoap for every 100ml of ammonia/water solution. Flush out the converter, nib, and feed a few times, then flush out that whole assembly again; this time with warm tap water. After that, I'd let it dry and then try writing with the pen again.
    The purpose of the pen flush is to remove any residual machining oils or other impurities, and give you a truly clean mechanism with which to work.
    Best of luck!
    Last edited by Dreck; January 11th, 2015 at 05:50 AM. Reason: why is as important as how
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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Making the assumption that reverse writing is producing a finer line, and based on my unfortunate use of converters from China, is it possible the ink is getting stuck in the converter? Pop a cartridge in and see if that helps.

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Before even attempting to clean the nib this happened. I only cleaned the nib and feed after this problem started (I flushed them and I also disassembled both the nib and feed and cleaned them).

    I shall try this solution, but I cant imagine why machining oils would be getting in the way now when they hadn't before

    Getting stuck in the converter seems like a plausible reason, what would I do if that is the case besides getting a new converter?

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Quote Originally Posted by kmanic View Post
    Before even attempting to clean the nib this happened. I only cleaned the nib and feed after this problem started (I flushed them and I also disassembled both the nib and feed and cleaned them).

    I shall try this solution, but I cant imagine why machining oils would be getting in the way now when they hadn't before

    Getting stuck in the converter seems like a plausible reason, what would I do if that is the case besides getting a new converter?
    I bought a Schmidt converter, and if you want to change the nib to some point the Goulet's house brand ones should fit. All in all, even with the add-ons it's still a good deal ($$) for a pen compared to some other options.

    If you don't like tinkering, there's always a $15 pilot metropolitan, although I picked up a bunch for gifts a while back at Staples for $10 a piece.

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Have you 'gapped' the tines, using either some old negative film, or some brass shims?

    If the nib writes only upside-down, I wonder if that could be the problem. Or, something may have gotten stuck between the tines, even a bit of dried ink or a miscroscopic bit of plastic.

    Jinhao pens can be good writers, but their converters are awful.
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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    That pen sounds like it needs a little nib work. Possibly worth it, but as a beginner you maybe should put it aside until you get more experience to tackle it.

    If you can, return the pen. In any case, do try something else. Jetpens sells beginner pens that I think are very good quality. Look for the Pilot Metropolitan, as Neo says, or the cheaper Sailor pens from Jetpens, or the Lamy Safari/Vista. With some of these you have to buy a converter to use bottled ink. Other good beginner pens are the Kaweco Classic Sport, a cartridge pen, and pens from Ohto.

    Pilot also makes a disposable Varsity for about $5, which is an excellent fountain pen that can be purchased at office supply stores, Amazon, Target and often at smaller bookstores and stationery stores. That's a great pen to see if you like fountain pens. They come in larger packs, too, so you can give them away.

    In my personal opinion, stay away from the Platinum Preppy, anything Noodler's and most Chinese pens until you know more. Those pens tend to be much more frustrating and to require higher user input. While some pen fanciers enjoy that, new pen users probably aren't the best choice for those, in my opinion.

    This might be the best idea: see if Rick Krantz has an ad in the for-sale section for an Esterbrook J. While I normally wouldn't recommend starting with a vintage pen, Rick sells working vintage pens at excellent prices. Email him at the address in his ad, and see if he has anything suitable.

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post
    In my personal opinion, stay away from the Platinum Preppy, anything Noodler's and most Chinese pens until you know more. Those pens tend to be much more frustrating and to require higher user input. While some pen fanciers enjoy that, new pen users probably aren't the best choice for those, in my opinion.
    Aack!! I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before the Noodler's haters reared their heads
    Actually, the first pen I got that worked reliably was a Noodler's. I loved it so much I bought a couple more, two for my daughter, and one for a student. Every one of them have worked flawlessly, and without any tinkering or tweaking.
    In all honesty, for $20-40, I think Noodler's pens are probably the best fountain pen for the money.
    I do love my Esterbrook, too, but if I had to, I'd rather work on the very user-friendly Noodler's than try to re-sac an Estie.
    Last edited by Dreck; January 11th, 2015 at 01:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post
    In my personal opinion, stay away from the Platinum Preppy, anything Noodler's and most Chinese pens until you know more. Those pens tend to be much more frustrating and to require higher user input. While some pen fanciers enjoy that, new pen users probably aren't the best choice for those, in my opinion.
    Aack!! I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before the Noodler's haters reared their heads
    Actually, the first pen I got that worked reliably was a Noodler's. I loved it so much I bought a couple more, two for my daughter, and one for a student. Every one of them have worked flawlessly, and without any tinkering or tweaking.
    In all honesty, for $20-40, I think Noodler's pens are probably the best fountain pen for the money.
    I do love my Esterbrook, too, but if I had to, I'd rather work on the very user-friendly Noodler's than try to re-sac an Estie.
    Hi. I'm not sure that's fair, to call me a "hater" because my opinion and experience are different than yours. But I am always sorry to offend with anything I write. Please note that I recommended he or she buy a restored Esterbrook from Rick, not one that needs to be re-sacked. I recommend that he or she not buy any pen that is known as prone to initial quality flaws -- if you look at my post you'll see more than Noodler's is mentioned under that rubric. If you have had such good luck with Noodler's pens, I congratulate you, and thank you for sharing, because that hasn't been my experience or that of anyone else I know. Sorry. But being honest doesn't make me a "hater."

    As an aside, I always hesitate to give my honest opinion about Noodler's, because one is very likely to run into people who particularly enjoy that brand who get upset about any post that's not 100 percent positive. I think knowing in advance that one will run into that sort of thing does make one hesitate to speak freely. One tends to self-censor. But I'm honestly stating my experience and the experience of others. I am glad to have the right to do so here.

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Laura N

    I think you got it right, I like Noodler's pens but would not recommend to a new fountain pen user either.

    Unless the individual likes to tinker and research
    .
    Opposing views do not have to be labeled!

    Aloha
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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    The nib will only write if the ink touches the paper, and then capillary flow takes care of the rest. If the nib touches the paper, but no ink does, the pen won't write. You have, essentially two half-spheres on the ends of each tine. There should be a narrow gap in between. One can be higher than the other. That should be fixed. But even when they are aligned in that direction, the flat planes that face each other may face at an angle \ / or / \. If we think of the paper as being on the bottom, the first configuration will usually write, but the second won't because surface tension holds the ink too far up the gap. If the pen has the "reverse grand canyon" setup / \, it might well write reversed and not in normal position.

    As for Noodler's pens, while they do sometimes work out well, I think there is some risk in recommending them, since I've seen considerable risk to my own satisfaction. My household has seen 5 Noodler's pens. All were adjusted by me to the best of my abilities at the time. One remains in service (my son's Ahab), an Ebonite Konrad I sold after replacing the nib and feed with a vintage Sheaffer Triumph nib and feed assembly (worked great), and the 3 others, original vegetal resin Konrads, have all been retired as a consequence of exhibiting an abnormally high ink evaporation rate despite my best efforts to seal them. The ebonite Konrad, BTW, was not afflicted with that disorder. So, I'm 2 for 5. I've bought about that many Preppies, and while some will write, I dislike using them for some reason. The caps crack eventually if you post (and maybe if you don't). I think an individual has to factor what they perceive the relative risks of dissatisfaction are into what they recommend. Now whether that argument supports dis-recommendation, i.e. warning away, is a different question.
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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post

    Hi. I'm not sure that's fair, to call me a "hater"...
    I was teasing. That's why I included the little
    Online arguments are a lot like the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
    As soon as the audience begins to participate, any actual content is lost in the resulting chaos and cacophony.
    At that point, all you can do is laugh and enjoy the descent into debasement.

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    The nib will only write if the ink touches the paper, and then capillary flow takes care of the rest. If the nib touches the paper, but no ink does, the pen won't write. You have, essentially two half-spheres on the ends of each tine. There should be a narrow gap in between. One can be higher than the other. That should be fixed. But even when they are aligned in that direction, the flat planes that face each other may face at an angle \ / or / \. If we think of the paper as being on the bottom, the first configuration will usually write, but the second won't because surface tension holds the ink too far up the gap. If the pen has the "reverse grand canyon" setup / \, it might well write reversed and not in normal position.

    As for Noodler's pens, while they do sometimes work out well, I think there is some risk in recommending them, since I've seen considerable risk to my own satisfaction. My household has seen 5 Noodler's pens. All were adjusted by me to the best of my abilities at the time. One remains in service (my son's Ahab), an Ebonite Konrad I sold after replacing the nib and feed with a vintage Sheaffer Triumph nib and feed assembly (worked great), and the 3 others, original vegetal resin Konrads, have all been retired as a consequence of exhibiting an abnormally high ink evaporation rate despite my best efforts to seal them. The ebonite Konrad, BTW, was not afflicted with that disorder. So, I'm 2 for 5. I've bought about that many Preppies, and while some will write, I dislike using them for some reason. The caps crack eventually if you post (and maybe if you don't). I think an individual has to factor what they perceive the relative risks of dissatisfaction are into what they recommend. Now whether that argument supports dis-recommendation, i.e. warning away, is a different question.
    Except that a Preppy is, how much? Four dollars? So if we're talking work-related pen, and it gets lost, or cracks, no weeping. You can afford multiples.

    I use the red fines for editing, but the ink is probably not waterproof.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    If the pen writes upside down i.e. the feed is above the nib, check to see if the feed is in contact with the underside of the nib. The feed allows the constant flow of ink to the nib. Ther could be a problem with a 'contaminated' feed that flushing will take care of. Or, the feed may not have been made properly or damaged. Tweeking the pen is required and part of the 'fun' of fountain pens. Esterbrook pens are great, inexpensive, durable vintage pens. I learned on them in grade school, they take abuse.

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    kmanic, I have been in your shoes when I was new to the hobby and I acquired several cheap fountain pens in order to merely get my feet wet. The object, of course, was to spend a little bit of money while I decided if this hobby was "for me". But, I became frustrated with some of these pens, because they didn't write right, and it made the overall experience unpleasant.

    I agree with some of the recommendations that have been given already. I would hold off on trying to fix the Jinhao and I would try to contact the seller tomorrow to see if the pen can be returned. Then, I might try another fountain pen that has a reputation for more reliable results out of the box. Early on, I tried the LAMY Safari, and was really happy with it. Some people are turned off by the tripod grip, but I really took to it. Because these can be had in various colors, I have purchased several and have had good results with all. The Pilot Metropolitan suggestion is also a good one. It's a little cheaper than the LAMY, and reliable out of the box. I have enjoyed both the LAMY and the Pilot Metro; I have gifted them to friends who know nothing of fountain pens, because they are reliable.

    Also, you had mentioned how you tried to flush the pen after you began having problems. I found that a good cleaning is really important before I ink a new pen. The machine oil issue is something that can come into play and effect inkflow. There are lots of YouTube videos out there that show you how to thoroughly clean a fountain pen, and I found those to be very helpful.

    Lastly, an Esterbrook was also among the first pens I acquired. I bought mine from a known, reliable seller who had restored it. I have never needed to tinker with it. It's excellent. I still have it. I still use it often. That being said, I would still check out the LAMY or Pilot, first. If you think this hobby is for you, then check out the Esterbrook.
    Beware of oblique conclusions.

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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Now I wonder whether flushing my Jinhao ( which worked ok with a converter but wouldn't write using a cartridge) was a mistake in itself
    Waiting for arrival of Parker ink from ebay and then I'll know
    Last edited by akapulko2020; January 11th, 2015 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Smilies wont show
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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    You can afford multiples.
    But as I said, I don't like using them. They could be free, and I personally would not be the one recommending them. If you want to recommend them, be my guest.
    Last edited by mhosea; January 11th, 2015 at 11:06 PM.
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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    I am tired, tired, TIRED of people putting forth Noodler's pens as a first pen!!

    People! There are sooooooooo many stories of problems out of the box, and there are so many other, completely problem-free pens for the same money that it is just ludicrous to keep pushing that Noodler's bandwagon down the street. It isn't nearly the case of Noodler's haters so much as fanbois and grrls.

    I replied, in another venue, regarding problems with the new $75.00 Neponset in this regard, as Nathan continues his line of pens:

    "And when The Tardis did release the $200.00 pen, they were heard to say 'But for now you must flush the pen of oils for many times, and then the removal of nib and feed and return thereof, upon which must follow The Heat-setting and The Alignment and The Smoothing.' For then the gods chortled about wash, rinse, repeat and the people did gnash their teeth for the umpteenth time and throw in the towel and buy a perfectly working Pilot Metropolitan for $15.00, and there was much rejoicing, kinda."

    Just sell them as "kit pens" and be done with it.

    </end rant>
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    Default Re: Jinhao 159 will only write using reverse side

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Just sell them as "kit pens" and be done with it.
    Not a bad idea at all, IMHO. "Some assembly required." That would also probably fix the availability problem.
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