Lightweight, retractable pen with line variation

[Flow]

I basically want a Pilot G2 pen with dramatic line variation.

Put another way, I want a Waterman's style full flex gold nib in a very light, plastic pen that retracts with a thumb clicker.

Ideally this pen would be very plain and non-attention grabbing in any way. My favorite pen for a while was black TWSBI Mini, which I like for a fine writing pocket pen, but it satisfies none of my new criteria. Point being, that's as blingy as I go. If anyone ever asks me about my pen I have failed.

I know about the Lamy Dialog. It's heavy and severe and doesn't feel good in my hand. Also it's not a clicker, and I didn't bond instantly with the retraction mechanism, so that doesn't really move me forward on any single criterion. If I could get a lightweight plastic version I'd consider it, as I'm sure someone could make a flex nib for it and it would be easy to get used to the mechanism.

Is there any possible combination of things I could buy to cobble this together? Is this the kind of thing any boutique pen maker would take on? BTW I have two old Watermans with nice nib/feed/sections that could be used for the writing part. Oh yeah and an Ahab, which I would relish cutting up LOL.

I've read on a couple of nibmeisters' sites that the Pilot Vanishing Point can't be modded for flex. Is that true? Or is it just a liability/PITA thing?

It seems impossible that I'd be the first person to want this. I can easily imagine some smart, industrious person has already cobbled together one from parts of other pens.

Here's where I'm at and why I want this.
I'm reading a lot of non-fiction for the first time since college. Studying, I think they called it in my day LOL
I am doing a lot of highlighting, takings lots of notes, all while staying focused on paper pages. I discovered the Pentel Handy Lines highlighter (retractable, refillable, adorable), which made a bigger difference than I expected. So I tried the opaque ink analogy, a Pilot G2 Extra Fine (clicky retractable 0.5mm gel roller ball). This had a similar effect on taking notes as far as keeping my eyes on my page and holding concentration, but my notes lost a lot of meaning.

I like to use a flex pen for notes in order to format the page. It's easy to go back and see headings, bolded words, underlines, etc - it makes for a nicely formatted page, even with notes. Even slowing down to make florid section headings keeps my mind in what I'm thinking about; it's only when I look away from the page that focus stutters. Then I got a Waterman Crusader, which has a slip cap, so that I can uncap and post the pen without missing a beat, but then I have to take my mind off the page for a moment to recap it. Ironically, this nearness to perfection is making me want perfection much MUCH more than if I had never been close to it.

Another solution might be to develop a technique for recapping that I could do on muscle memory like a clicky pen. I'm open to suggestions on that, too. I'm a professional musician, so I have lots of practice with practicing; once I understand what I'm supposed to do, I'm pretty capable at slowly building up to mastery.

Another solution might be to learn to make bigger, bolder letters with a fine-tipped Pilot Vanishing Point (when I want to make bold letters, headings, etc). I bet there is a cool, old-time technique someone could teach me for that. I'm totally fine with the Vanishing Point except for the inability to go easily from F to BB. If I could solve that problem, that solves all problems.

Also I'm open to other kinds of pens. E.g. I Googled "retractable brush pen" but couldn't find anything. I can easily imagine there's some kind of felt tip retractable that would do what I want, but I can't easily find it LOL.

Also I'd take any tips on more quickly regaining deep focus after stumbling on externalities.

Basically, open to any help.

[tandaina]

In short, no such pen exists. Sorry. Especially not a full flex pen for goodness sake! And no, nib meisters do not modify vanishing points for full flex, the fact that the nib is hooded makes this seriously problematic.

You can get SEMI-flex hooded nibbed pens that will do well uncapped for a while (IE note taking) The Aurora 88 is an example of these. But I am aware of *no* full flex hooded nibbed pens. And click pens are a very modern invention, modern nibs are not full flex. Even the ones modified by Mr. Binder are *not* the same as vintage full flex.

I'm afraid you need to modify your search. Either be OK with semi-flex and hooded. OR if you must have click, get a Vanishing Point nib ground into an italic to give you pleasing line variation. Used at different angles your writing will have different heaviness. Or use a brush pen (but again, these are not retractable as doing so would quickly ruin the bristles.)

But for what you are doing? I think you need to look into brush pens with highlighter ink and forget about the flex nib. It isn't necessary and "cobbling together" something could run you into the multiple hundreds of dollars if it is even possible. Here's a possibility: Highlighter

[AltecGreen]

In short....








It is easy to meet two out of the three requirements. Getting all three is very difficult. The nearest pens I can think of to meet your requirements are either a Pullman Meterore or an Aurora Asterope. Both are vintage retractable nib pens which came with a flexible nib or can easily be fitted with a vintage flex nib. (It would be a crime to remove the correct nib for either of these pens for a different but flexible nib). You just need the $3-5K for an example when one comes on the market. Neither were particularly sturdy and both are a pain to fix.

[Jon Szanto]

I want a pony.

[fountainpenkid]

Ask fountainbel to make it!

[Flow]

Thanks for all info.

AltecGreen that is one step closer from where I was. I Googled those pens and they look totally boss. That would 100% work if they weren't so rare. I can see that you are a musician, too, so you know what I mean when I say this is the same thing as vintage guitars. They are great to have at home, but I'm not going to take a museum piece on a sweaty, low-rent, outdoor gig. Even if it's insured and there's no financial risk, I can't see myself destroying - effectively consuming - such a rare treasure.

With guitars I buy old stuff, see what makes them special, then build my own. Maybe that's the ideal situation here, though I have little talent for designing mechanics. Seeing the pics - and this vid! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoSR0mGJzMI - of those old pens gives me the gist of how they work; and it seems very different from the Pentel highlighter I mentioned.

I'd bet lunch that some mechanical engineer somewhere has done this project already. I wish a smart ME would make 250 such pens so I could get one at a reasonable price. Or make an OS printable model of the whole project.

Tandaina, the deal with the flex pen is that I can impart meaning to the design of the page as I go. I have giant headers, medium subheadings, bolds, exclamation points that look like what they are instead of another letter... and on and on and on. It's much more meaningful for me when I go back over my notes. With a rigid nib, after the experience of writing is over, there is no advantage over using a roller ball pen - everything looks identical. I get what you are saying about highlighters but to me that sounds like more distraction than breaking focus to recap my slip cap flex pen.

Maybe I'm already at the most sensible solution, given all factors: an old Waterman Crusader. As with musical instruments, there's a lot to be said for just settling on an instrument - any instrument - and using it until it becomes a natural prosthesis.... I wonder if the time I might spend trying to roll my own wouldn't be better spent developing the technique to recap the pen I already have....

[Flow]

You can buy a pony. There's one less than a mile from my house.

[manoeuver]

don't you get terrible bleedthrough writing flexy in books? I use a mechanical pencil for my marginalia for just that reason.
the clicky flexy pen is I think not likely, ever. good luck though. Maybe try modding a clicky sharpie to take the brush pen guts...

[tandaina]

don't you get terrible bleedthrough writing flexy in books? I use a mechanical pencil for my marginalia for just that reason.
the clicky flexy pen is I think not likely, ever. good luck though. Maybe try modding a clicky sharpie to take the brush pen guts...

Yeah, this. my real wet noodles bleed through *everything.* Even Tomoe River has trouble with some of them and that's saying something. For notes and highlighting in books I have to use either EF nibs or non-fountain pens because the bleed through and feathering are awful.

[Flow]

I take my notes in homemade notebooks using the HP 32# paper I read about on this forum. I.e. I don't write in books except "workbooks." Obvs I can use my flex pen like a regular wet fine by using standard pressure. Yeah on cheap paper flex writing not only soaks through but bleeds out to illegibility.

I also have store-bought notebooks of Clairfontaine Triomphe (shows through some) and R by Rhodia, which is thinner but doesn't seem to show through. It's super sweet paper - I would use it more but I feel like the price is out of line for what it is. I did source the R cover material for my own notebooks - it's called Touche LOL. Or at least it feels exactly the same - I just ordered samples and that one seems identical. Anyway, IDK what the secret is to the R paper, but with the HP paper I think it works just because it's monstrously thick.

In books I only highlight. I mainly highlight the cue words that I put in my notes so that I can find what I forgot. After I wind down a course of study I collect my loose notes from each subject in a GDT folder - sort of a ghetto reference notebook. I also like to type an essay "teaching" a survey of what I've learned, to see whether I really learned it.

BTW while I'm prattling about my methods I'll share this one, too: for books that I'm really going to wallow in, I buy the paper book and have it chopped and spiral bound at Office Depot. I don't know exactly what that does but it definitely does help me sink down into the mindset of the book. I started doing that with music books because it makes them lie flat on a music stand. With regular books I think it has something to do with the fact that when you're on a page, you're on it - there is no tension waiting to move on or lose your spot or whatever. IDK I really like it.

Flex is helpful IMHO for mindmapping, sketch noting, and just plain old formatting. My most basic, most used note strategy is like Cornell only with the cues inline instead of in a big field of mostly wasted space. I can't speak for anyone else, but when it comes to writing something meaningful on a page - something I can come back to and get a high-yield review - line variation is extremely helpful for me. Plus it's just neat-o, so I feel like my notes are more valuable somehow... Honestly after getting into flex vintage pens, I can't see why anyone gives a damn about anything else. It feels really right to me.

At this point I've resigned to using my Crusader (flex nib with unthreaded cap). My wife has a friend who is a physical therapist and I'm going to ask her for ideas on how to develop a technique for recapping without breaking concentration. I may get one of those retractable Sharpies to tinker with and see whether I can figure out something in one sitting; this is the kind of thing that historically I've spent waaaay too much time on - even if I did end up building exactly what I want. Other than that I'll probably just look for a couple more old pens with slip-on caps and flexible nibs.

[AltecGreen]

I want a pony.

Now I know what to get you for your birthday.

[ChrisC]

In my experience, nib dry out isn't such a big deal. At most, they'll start a millimeter or two after you first put the nib to the paper. Pretty much everything I've used behaves like this, from Swan wet noodles to modern Pelikan nails. I wouldn't worry too much about nib dry-out.

[elaineb]

I really think a good brush pen could meet your needs. I have a couple dozen of them myself, in all shapes and nib types (from natural hair to firm rubber). I use them at work for lettering signs and for drawing. They produce an extremely expressive line, and my favorites put vintage flex nibs to shame.

For small writing, you'd need a firmer, fude tip unless you want to spend time painstakingly drawing the letters with the very tip of a natural hair brush. I don't know the speed at which you need to write your words. But a firm fude tip will not give you the extra wide swashes you're looking for - those come from using a soft natural hair brush.

Drawbacks to a brush pen are (1) none are clickable. I research these pens all the time for my own use, and I have never seen anything like a Pilot Vanishing Point version for them. I think it is unrealistic to expect you'll find a clickable version for either a vintage flex nib or a brush pen; (2) there is a learning curve to using them, since you have to hold your hand differently and take almost all the weight off the tip of the pen. (Firmer fude tips are more forgiving in this, but if you want to use a natural hair brush, you'll need to learn to work like a painter, not a writer.)

If you've never tried brush pens, JetPens has a sample package of several different types and I like their selection. I'd definitely recommend it as an overview of what's available. More expensive pens simply refine what these pens do. I love brush pens, they're inspiring to use, and perhaps they'll come close to what you're looking for.

[fncll]

There are a few twist-to-retract fountain pens out there. I received a very cheap one as a gift years ago. Perhaps such a pen could be fitted with a flex nib. That's all I have...I don't own any flex nibs other than in dip pens and my experience there is that they make my handwriting worse (or it could just be the comparison between my attempts to use them and the results in the hand of my betters)!

[mhosea]

It's not retractable, but you can get more controlled flow from your broad writing with a Sailor Cross Concord nib. That's a fine point when writing in the regular way, but flip it over, and there's a very broad cross point. Line width is a little broader horizontally than vertically. You can also get "custom" line variation by using the cross point with a twisting motion (makes "swooshes"). It's a lot of fun. Sort of the opposite of a flex pen in one way, though--the double-layer nib is quite stiff.

[manoeuver]

for books that I'm really going to wallow in, I buy the paper book and have it chopped and spiral bound at Office Depot.

this is such a fantastic idea. I'm thinking of 5 or 6 I might do this to. thanks!

BTW what books have you given this treatment?