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Thread: Hypocrisy

  1. #21
    The Nibsmith dannzeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by snedwos View Post
    ...The Andersons are thankfully mediating, once again proving themselves invaluable to the pen community...
    Let's get one thing clear, the Andersons are not mediating. They're clearly on Eric's side defending his action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    ...I am unclear as to how much coordination is going on between the two...
    There's been no communication. I've called and left a message. I've sent a text message. I've PMed Eric here. I've emailed him at multiple addresses. I've sent messages through various social networks.

    He's not responded to any of them.

    At this point, I have to assume he no longer wants me involved with FPGeeks.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member snedwos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    I notice you're not listed as a moderator...
    "What are moon-letters?" asked the hobbit full of excitement. He loved maps, as I have told you before; and he also loved runes and letters, and cunning handwriting, though when he wrote himself it was a bit thin and spidery.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Time will tell. If the issue(s) get resolved, I don't need to know what happened (even though my nosey self would like to know what was going on). Let's keep positive on keeping the forum going and assist in that endevour.

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  6. #24
    The Nibsmith dannzeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by snedwos View Post
    I notice you're not listed as a moderator...
    Correct. My admin status has been removed. I've been locked out of all accounts associated with FPGeeks, though I was able to regain access to Instagram. And, I have no access to my dan@fpgeeks.com email.

  7. #25
    Senior Member Lady Onogaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    I thought that the "timeout" post was a way of complaining that the old ethical standards seems to have been changed (by Dan) without any discussion by the editorial team (Dan and Eric). Eric was pointing out the differences as he saw them. He also seemed to have a concern by sponsors providing pens to review; note the section on accepting gifts, swag, whatever. The concern is that reviewers were or could be influenced to show favoritism by the swag, gifts, presents, etc. I can see that point of view as having some validity. It would be hard to accept gifts and not give that gift a positive review. I have seen it done, but I can imagine it being an uncomfortable situation. That's why I also think it makes sense to then pass along the gift in some way to others on the list in a drawing, which he also mentions as part of the original standards.

    I can't understand why offering nib services himself and promoting them would make Dan somehow more biased (no one has to use his services, just like no one has to use anyone else's services that have been recommended). Becoming a retailer would certainly cause conflicts.
    Lady Onogaro

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  8. #26
    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Yeah I wouldn't call it moderating. I'm guessing the Andersons (wisely) reminded Eric that totally alienating the forum community was the fastest way to scuttle FPGeeks for good. Many forum owners in the past have realized (too late) that the folks on a forum really don't care what it's called, or even much what it looks like, so long as the people they are used to talking to are there. If this site had stayed down for long *someone* would have put an alternate location up, gotten the word out, and that would have been the end of that. It's happened before it can happen again.
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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  10. #27
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Onogaro View Post
    I thought that the "timeout" post was a way of complaining that the old ethical standards seems to have been changed (by Dan) without any discussion by the editorial team (Dan and Eric). Eric was pointing out the differences as he saw them. He also seemed to have a concern by sponsors providing pens to review; note the section on accepting gifts, swag, whatever. The concern is that reviewers were or could be influenced to show favoritism by the swag, gifts, presents, etc. I can see that point of view as having some validity. It would be hard to accept gifts and not give that gift a positive review. I have seen it done, but I can imagine it being an uncomfortable situation. That's why I also think it makes sense to then pass along the gift in some way to others on the list in a drawing, which he also mentions as part of the original standards.

    I can't understand why offering nib services himself and promoting them would make Dan somehow more biased (no one has to use his services, just like no one has to use anyone else's services that have been recommended). Becoming a retailer would certainly cause conflicts.
    Right. But it seems that none of that has any effect on the forums, and there seemed to be precisely ZERO reason for shutting down the forums. Punishing the community of members because of a miscommunication among those who are on the administrative staff? I don't think so. Bad move, thankfully corrected relatively quickly. And still no explanation to ANY of us.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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  12. #28
    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Yeah, I do find it really weird that Eric hasn't popped in to at least say "Hey."
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

  13. #29
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by snedwos View Post
    I notice you're not listed as a moderator...
    Correct. My admin status has been removed. I've been locked out of all accounts associated with FPGeeks, though I was able to regain access to Instagram. And, I have no access to my dan@fpgeeks.com email.
    Oh, fuck, that is just lame. This is the kind of shit people avoid other forums over. I'm so upset I'm falling back into using foul language, but... really. We - you - deserve a whole lot better.

    And I've just reported a spammer. We'll see how long that takes to get fixed.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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  15. #30
    Senior Member snedwos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    It does seem a trifle petulant, yes.
    "What are moon-letters?" asked the hobbit full of excitement. He loved maps, as I have told you before; and he also loved runes and letters, and cunning handwriting, though when he wrote himself it was a bit thin and spidery.

  16. #31
    FP Enthusiast Emeritus mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Perhaps it is helpful to be reminded sometimes of the ephemeral nature of online forums, dependent as they are on the whims of those who own and control them. As regards the forums, at least, Dan has been the ideal forum-master. So ends an era, perhaps.
    Last edited by mhosea; March 6th, 2015 at 11:35 AM.
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  18. #32
    Senior Member Annie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by Drow View Post
    If Dan is involved in these wonderfully ethical new standards one would also assume that FP Geeks will no longer shamelessly promote his nib services which I am sure are not being offered for altruistic reasons. What a facade this "time out is"!
    WTF???
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by Drow View Post
    If Dan is involved in these wonderfully ethical new standards one would also assume that FP Geeks will no longer shamelessly promote his nib services which I am sure are not being offered for altruistic reasons. What a facade this "time out is"!






    The choice of whether to use Dan, Mike, Greg, Deb, etc....as a nibmeister is up to the individual pen owner. Where is the shameless promotion you speak of? I see no evidence of inappropriate self promotion by Dan. There are many forum members that have praised his work and polite communication, but this can also be said of other meisters that serve the FP community.


    Keep in mind that Dan had singlehanded kept this forum afloat, providing a place for fountain pen collectors to gather and share their thoughts without being overly moderated. Perhaps you would be more comfortable at a forum that censures members without explanation and suppresses honest reviews that run counter to the admins' business interest.


    Im not usually this wordy but I felt compelled to put in my two cents in this case.

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  22. #34
    Senior Member Annie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    Let's get one thing clear, the Andersons are not mediating. They're clearly on Eric's side defending his action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    ...I am unclear as to how much coordination is going on between the two...
    There's been no communication. I've called and left a message. I've sent a text message. I've PMed Eric here. I've emailed him at multiple addresses. I've sent messages through various social networks.

    He's not responded to any of them.

    At this point, I have to assume he no longer wants me involved with FPGeeks.
    Fo9r the record, this small ink stained old lady across the pond wants you to stay right here. I offer nib grinding services too and I'm not remotely interested or bothered by competition. I have no doubt that Dan is better at it than me and I tend to stick to grinding stuff at our regular geek meetings in London. I bet tomorrow that Cob will produce something and say 'do something interesting with it' and between bites of whatever I'm eating and whatever beer I go for, I'll grind a nib or two. Is that a commercial operation? Heck, I'm not even sure I can spell that.

    I really like the way Dan runs this place - a light touch and interesting pen chat and you can say fuck and bugger and you don't get hauled out the door and treated like a child. We are allowed to use this place to encourage others to join us for our monthly meetings and discuss Bay State Blue (just bought some and I'm wearing it. So is the cat) and how crap the Lamy Safari is. Frankly I don't give a rat's arse about who sells what and I can say that having been badly burned here. Most of us are grown ups and if we make poor choices - we own 'em. If Dan or anyone else wants to sell nib grinding/pens/their granny/ their soul to the devil here, do I think that is 'unethical'? Nope.

    I'm really interested in the detail of this love triangle though. It better be more interesting than Fifty Shades though - gawd, I wasted two days of my life on that.

    I apologise in advance for saying bugger and fuck but I'm really pleased that I am able to do so.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    http://www.etsy.com/shop/peachez


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  24. #35
    Senior Member Annie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by snedwos View Post
    I notice you're not listed as a moderator...
    Correct. My admin status has been removed. I've been locked out of all accounts associated with FPGeeks, though I was able to regain access to Instagram. And, I have no access to my dan@fpgeeks.com email.
    This is crazy.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    http://www.etsy.com/shop/peachez


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    Senior Member PeppWaves03's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    What infuriates me is the notion that Eric knew he was going to do this and didn't even have the balls to call Dan and tell him what he was doing and why. For Eric to somehow feel empowered to take down the whole forum is just plain mean spirited. Furthermore, WTF does Anderson pens have to be meddling into this mess? If they really wanted to help, why not ask Eric what the hell he was doing and why when they had him on their podcast this week?! Now Anderson Pen's is giving their opinion on redit and FPN taking sides? If you wanted to take sides, why not ask the questions when you had your forum? I loved the Podcasts and Eric's ramblings when he was on. Eric and Dan have both done a great benefit to us all. They seemed to be really good friends and collaborators in the past and I hope they can remember the good times.

  26. #37
    Senior Member Susan3141's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Don't those ethical guidelines really apply to the FPGeeks Blog and not the forums? I mean, we have a Classifieds forum, so, duh, people are going to sell stuff on the forum. I don't really care what Dan/Eric do with the blog. If Eric didn't like the direction it was taking (i.e. selling pens and nib work), fine. Talk to Dan. But taking down the forums was a ridiculous and harsh thing to do since, as I see the forums, they are separate from the blog.
    Last edited by Susan3141; March 6th, 2015 at 01:51 PM. Reason: Correction of misspelling. Added a sentence.
    Show me a shiny blue fountain pen and I will probably buy it.

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  28. #38
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan3141 View Post
    Don't those ethical guidelines really apply to the FPGeeks Blog and not the forums? I mean, we have a Classifieds forum, so, duh, people are going to sell stuff on the forum. I don't really care what Dan/Eric do with the blog. If Eric didn't like the direction it was taking (i.e. selling pens and nib work), fine. Talk to Dan. But taking down the forums was a ridiculous and harsh thing to do since, as I see the forums, they are separate from the blog.
    As a new member I did not even realise there was a blog, only a forum. Now the main webpage is gone I feel cheated - I lost a girlfriend I never even saw.

  29. #39
    Senior Member Scrawler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Quote Originally Posted by mustud52 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Susan3141 View Post
    Don't those ethical guidelines really apply to the FPGeeks Blog and not the forums? I mean, we have a Classifieds forum, so, duh, people are going to sell stuff on the forum. I don't really care what Dan/Eric do with the blog. If Eric didn't like the direction it was taking (i.e. selling pens and nib work), fine. Talk to Dan. But taking down the forums was a ridiculous and harsh thing to do since, as I see the forums, they are separate from the blog.
    As a new member I did not even realise there was a blog, only a forum. Now the main webpage is gone I feel cheated - I lost a girlfriend I never even saw.
    You have rather missed out. The blog was by turns interesting, funny and informative. I originally found this forum through the blog. It is a great shame it is gone. It had videos, announcements of new products, and competitions. It was fun.

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    Default Re: Hypocrisy

    Dan can write anything he wants on his own website. If he wants to blog, he can do it there, and you all can read it there.

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