Hypocrisy

[mhosea]

Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

[Jon Szanto]

Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

And, since the forums have been run single-handedly in an exemplary manner by Dan for a very extended period of time, his summary removal with no explanation affects each and every member of the forum, to degrees large and small. That the true net worth of any forum is the interaction of the participants, and the content that they provide, seems to have been lost in this. My comfort in being a member, my willingness to contribute time, intellectual property, and good will to the content stream of this forum is very much tied to the manner in which it has been run. I have exactly 0.00% interest in how affairs are managed on every other part of fpgeeks.com, because I view that as unidirectional content distribution, completely up to the owner.

[Tony Rex]

Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

And, since the forums have been run single-handedly in an exemplary manner by Dan for a very extended period of time, his summary removal with no explanation affects each and every member of the forum, to degrees large and small. That the true net worth of any forum is the interaction of the participants, and the content that they provide, seems to have been lost in this. My comfort in being a member, my willingness to contribute time, intellectual property, and good will to the content stream of this forum is very much tied to the manner in which it has been run. I have exactly 0.00% interest in how affairs are managed on every other part of fpgeeks.com, because I view that as unidirectional content distribution, completely up to the owner.

Thanks Jon for putting it that way, because that's exactly how I felt. I regret posting my stuff here, most of whom before I even put them on the blog—so you don't have to visit my shitty blog—. I even thought of removing stuff, but that wouldn't be fair to others who have shown appreciation or would do so later. I'm sad to lose a nice drinking hole, but hey, such is life ay? But I'm not so sure I want to comply with someone's vocabulary after their dictionary throwing exercise. I just can't help but wonder if a fine bloke like dannzeman was dispensable then surely the rest of us would be just numbers?

But I'm willing to wait and see and hoping for the best.

[mustud52]

Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

And, since the forums have been run single-handedly in an exemplary manner by Dan for a very extended period of time, his summary removal with no explanation affects each and every member of the forum, to degrees large and small. That the true net worth of any forum is the interaction of the participants, and the content that they provide, seems to have been lost in this. My comfort in being a member, my willingness to contribute time, intellectual property, and good will to the content stream of this forum is very much tied to the manner in which it has been run. I have exactly 0.00% interest in how affairs are managed on every other part of fpgeeks.com, because I view that as unidirectional content distribution, completely up to the owner.

Thanks Jon for putting it that way, because that's exactly how I felt. I regret posting my stuff here, most of whom before I even put them on the blog—so you don't have to visit my shitty blog—. I even thought of removing stuff, but that wouldn't be fair to others who have shown appreciation or would do so later. I'm sad to lose a nice drinking hole, but hey, such is life ay? But I'm not so sure I want to comply with someone's vocabulary after their dictionary throwing exercise. I just can't help but wonder if a fine bloke like dannzeman was dispensable then surely the rest of us would be just numbers?

But I'm willing to wait and see and hoping for the best.

Hey Tony, I haven't met you, despite us both being in Melbourne. Melbourne is big, right?

I thought your very early post on this subject was spot on - something along the lines of let's get on with enjoying pens.

The guys involved will work things through for better or worse. They both know their individual points of view and personal qualities are respected and valued by various members. They are unlikely to crumble into desperate and blubbering tragics.

Of course that is easy for me to say - I am a newbie.

ps, where is you blog, I would be interested to read and see more of your excellent photos.

[Tony Rex]

Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

And, since the forums have been run single-handedly in an exemplary manner by Dan for a very extended period of time, his summary removal with no explanation affects each and every member of the forum, to degrees large and small. That the true net worth of any forum is the interaction of the participants, and the content that they provide, seems to have been lost in this. My comfort in being a member, my willingness to contribute time, intellectual property, and good will to the content stream of this forum is very much tied to the manner in which it has been run. I have exactly 0.00% interest in how affairs are managed on every other part of fpgeeks.com, because I view that as unidirectional content distribution, completely up to the owner.

Thanks Jon for putting it that way, because that's exactly how I felt. I regret posting my stuff here, most of whom before I even put them on the blog—so you don't have to visit my shitty blog—. I even thought of removing stuff, but that wouldn't be fair to others who have shown appreciation or would do so later. I'm sad to lose a nice drinking hole, but hey, such is life ay? But I'm not so sure I want to comply with someone's vocabulary after their dictionary throwing exercise. I just can't help but wonder if a fine bloke like dannzeman was dispensable then surely the rest of us would be just numbers?

But I'm willing to wait and see and hoping for the best.

Hey Tony, I haven't met you, despite us both being in Melbourne. Melbourne is big, right?

I thought your very early post on this subject was spot on - something along the lines of let's get on with enjoying pens.

The guys involved will work things through for better or worse. They both know their individual points of view and personal qualities are respected and valued by various members. They are unlikely to crumble into desperate and blubbering tragics.

Of course that is easy for me to say - I am a newbie.

ps, where is you blog, I would be interested to read and see more of your excellent photos.

Hiya mustud, Wish I could welcome you proper mate but I'm kinda busy packing myself ha! I'm glad you're agreeing with my point earlier but with things abuzz lately, it's hard to avoid making the point I just made above, which Jon had eloquently put. As for the blog, just lookup the threads I started for pics. You won't find most of those pics on my blog anyway. I'm so glad the labour day long weekend is over for us Victorians. Mine tasted like ashes because of this nonsense.

Again, from now on I'm simply waiting and seeing.

[swanjun]

Personally, if I owned a website, even if I were not very involved with it anymore, I would be really freaked out by it suddenly becoming a commercial venture. A commercial venture that I suddenly, basically, owned without knowledge or consent. What are the financial repercussions, for example? Would I have to suddenly file self-employment taxes? Claim profits as income? It would be a lot of stuff that I would not want to deal with or worry about, if all I had ever envisioned was an informative website.

[Jon Szanto]

Personally, if I owned a website, even if I were not very involved with it anymore, I would be really freaked out by it suddenly becoming a commercial venture. A commercial venture that I suddenly, basically, owned without knowledge or consent. What are the financial repercussions, for example? Would I have to suddenly file self-employment taxes? Claim profits as income? It would be a lot of stuff that I would not want to deal with or worry about, if all I had ever envisioned was an informative website.

A. It wasn't sudden.
B. If it is yours, you need to pay attention to it, not sit around for a long time and then freak out.
C. You haven't said what kind of directives you gave to those running the website you owned.

... and a lot of other stuff. The primary cause of so many of our questions is the complete lack of transparency as to what actually occurred. It's all pretty much a mystery. Not good.

[pajaro]

My wavering interest in pens having kept me away for a short while, I was intrigued by this thread, which is unsurprising, given the indulgent way this site has been run and the number of comments I have seen here before which were strong, and there is also the indulgence toward certain language, ah, hum, trying to make a longer run on sentence . . .

Interesting doings, anyway. Think of some of the comments here and imagine the reaction to their being made on another site.

[Special K]

I don't know Dan nor Eric, I haven't been here that long. But I know that when a big rift opens suddenly between two people who consider themselves a team, it's a no-man's land of emotional turmoil. It is very hard to navigate, to figure out what to do about it. In these situations, people very often make decisions that are baffling to people outside their heads and hearts. Think about the first time someone dumped you with no warning, for instance. Did you do nice, rational things in those hours right afterwards? I know I didn't. I hadn't a clue how to respond and did some pretty dumb things in a sad attempt to fix things and find some balance.

Now of course whatever rift happened between Dan and Eric, it's not the same as getting dumped, but I'm sure it was still pretty emotional for them. Their sense of team had been damaged, after all. That's hard for anyone. So I'm not going to voice criticism over lack of judgement or behavioral decisions made in the wake of getting blindsided by conflict. I am sure that both Dan and Eric were doing the very best they could at the time. I have my own pile of stupid things done with great sincerity at the wrong time. It's part of being human, and these are the things that we, as friends, can simply let flow into the past.

I applaud how many people here have shown restraint and respect over these past days. This kind of tolerance speaks to the maturity of this forum, and is a good indicator that FPGeeks isn't going to break apart and go away any time soon. I am very glad that I have found you guys.

Hi, Elaine. I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of how many people have shown restraint. At the very least, most of the comments have been insulting towards Eric. At worst, they have been downright vulgar. I don't know either of these men, and they certainly don't know me. On one hand, it's nice that so many people like DAN, but on the other hand these same people have been utterly vile and disgusting in there contempt for Eric. Dan, if you want to do your part to facilitate healing, you might consider apologizing to the Andersons for publicly insulting them. This would be a great place to lock this thread. The same thing has been said hundred different ways. Let's put this old horse to rest.🚫 more nastiness, Please.

[Jon Szanto]

... on the other hand these same people have been utterly vile and disgusting in there contempt for Eric.

Really? I certainly can think of one post that went there, from a friend of Eric's, and Eric addressed it. Others? Strong opinions, sure; colorful language, I'll own up to that. But I don't see people being "vile and disgusting", but honestly upset. Don't blame them, as I feel the same.

Dan, if you want to do your part to facilitate healing, you might consider apologizing to the Andersons for publicly insulting them.

Ok, cowboy, you need to take a step back. Unless you are claiming you haven't seen the Facebook post, or the copy of it here, where Lisa A. pretty much accused Dan of embezzlement, including the use of some figures that - if factual - could only have been supplied by Eric, well... The least you need to do is apologize yourself to Dan. If you actually knew of those comments and figures, you need to apologize to everyone else, as well.

This would be a great place to lock this thread.

Wait, you've made 2 posts in this forum and you are telling people about locking threads? GTFO. Seriously, it doesn't work like that here.

[Jon Szanto]

I just thought it would be fun to report a "Reputation Comment" that I just received:

Jon santo is the ring leader. He's also the rudest still using profanity he keeps using this language because he thinks the owner won't do anythin

I'm guessing I've made a true friend in Special K, with my stooping to take exception with his assessments of the sturm und drang. Mr. K, care to comment? Any thoughts on my other posts in the forum, like the one I made earlier today on correspondence and journaling? Hmmm?

<crickets>

P.S. For goodness sake, when you insult someone, at least spell their name correctly.
P.P.S. I was going to put an image up of a "ring leader", but... well, if you want some lulz, do a Google image search. Yeah, not going there.

[Special K]

Your behavior is vile and contemptible. Your words are vulgar and obscene

[Special K]

Don't ask me for any more comments. If you want to continue being vulgar, do it elsewhere

[Jon Szanto]

Your behavior is vile and contemptible. Your words are vulgar and obscene

Please note the first person that welcomed you to this forum. Odd, that.

Mr/Ms K, you have 4 posts at this point, and have been a member for a handful of days. You have seen posts from me using the most flamboyant language, and what you have not seen are a couple of years worth of posts that come from a very different place. My passion, and my colorful descriptions, are due to some very difficult issues that this forum is dealing with, issues that go back beyond TWO YEARS before you even joined.

Try to take some of this into account.

I'd also like to inform you, if you hadn't noticed it, that this forum does not censure people, nor does it specify behavioral rules to the extent that it stifles free speech. One is obliged to note that a full use of language, from the most mundane to the most rambunctious, has deep roots in our culture:

You taught me language. And my profit on’t
Is, I know how to curse.

~Wm. Shakespeare: The Tempest

I'm no Bill S., believe me. And I don't post like what you may have been seeing often, or without reason. If adult language truly offends you, I can't help you. That issue is in your court. I simply believe in being honest, in fact, deed, and heart.

[Jon Szanto]

Don't ask me for any more comments. If you want to continue being vulgar, do it elsewhere

Let me know if you like the song. I only post songs for my very special friends.

[mustud52]

This becoming very corrosive. As a very recent member I have no idea of the merits of the various positions. What I do know is that the repeated emphasizing of these positions does not add much beyond what was put in the early posts - other than to make FPG increasingly less pleasant for a newcomer.

[Quantum Sailor]

I just thought it would be fun to report a "Reputation Comment" that I just received:

Jon santo is the ring leader. He's also the rudest still using profanity he keeps using this language because he thinks the owner won't do anythin

I'm guessing I've made a true friend in Special K, with my stooping to take exception with his assessments of the sturm und drang. Mr. K, care to comment? Any thoughts on my other posts in the forum, like the one I made earlier today on correspondence and journaling? Hmmm?

<crickets>

P.S. For goodness sake, when you insult someone, at least spell their name correctly.
P.P.S. I was going to put an image up of a "ring leader", but... well, if you want some lulz, do a Google image search. Yeah, not going there.

I feel cheated all I got was an unexplained "rude" for questioning a posters motivations.... I didn't realize you were a ring leader though John, did I join the ring? How long have I been involved? If the answer is no what do I have to do to join the ring and become involved?

[Quantum Sailor]

I don't know Dan nor Eric, I haven't been here that long. But I know that when a big rift opens suddenly between two people who consider themselves a team, it's a no-man's land of emotional turmoil. It is very hard to navigate, to figure out what to do about it. In these situations, people very often make decisions that are baffling to people outside their heads and hearts. Think about the first time someone dumped you with no warning, for instance. Did you do nice, rational things in those hours right afterwards? I know I didn't. I hadn't a clue how to respond and did some pretty dumb things in a sad attempt to fix things and find some balance.

Now of course whatever rift happened between Dan and Eric, it's not the same as getting dumped, but I'm sure it was still pretty emotional for them. Their sense of team had been damaged, after all. That's hard for anyone. So I'm not going to voice criticism over lack of judgement or behavioral decisions made in the wake of getting blindsided by conflict. I am sure that both Dan and Eric were doing the very best they could at the time. I have my own pile of stupid things done with great sincerity at the wrong time. It's part of being human, and these are the things that we, as friends, can simply let flow into the past.

I applaud how many people here have shown restraint and respect over these past days. This kind of tolerance speaks to the maturity of this forum, and is a good indicator that FPGeeks isn't going to break apart and go away any time soon. I am very glad that I have found you guys.

Hi, Elaine. I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of how many people have shown restraint. At the very least, most of the comments have been insulting towards Eric. At worst, they have been downright vulgar. I don't know either of these men, and they certainly don't know me. On one hand, it's nice that so many people like DAN, but on the other hand these same people have been utterly vile and disgusting in there contempt for Eric. Dan, if you want to do your part to facilitate healing, you might consider apologizing to the Andersons for publicly insulting them. This would be a great place to lock this thread. The same thing has been said hundred different ways. Let's put this old horse to rest.🚫 more nastiness, Please.

While I agree that things have become a little more heated about the topic than may or may not have been expected, I don't think, and hope this board doesn't go the direction of locking threads. You're a new member and may be more used to a different type of board, or maybe some of us just aren't up to the "class" of participants you're used to. However some of us like reading opinions and getting alternative views on things. In this particular instance there is a lot of history that given your amount of participation in the forums up to this point you may not be aware of, or even if you are aware of it you may just have a different view, not sure, but there are strong views.

I would say that in all seriousness your reputation comments seem more like baiting and instigation rather than your professed purpose of making things less vulgar. Maybe the purpose is "shaming" those you see as instigators or just trying to bait the new moderator/owner/whoever is actually at the helm of the board these days into taking some kind of action, I can't say because I don't know. Maybe you would like to elaborate that purpose? I will reiterate what I've said before, the people in this board are very kind and I feel lucky to have met them in as much as I have, I have found most to be rational and very justified in their statements, even when I don't agree with them. Never have I seen a term like unladylike used on this board. I like it that way..exactly what is ladylike? Would you prefer a lady keep her opinions to herself when you don't agree with them? I find that women have great opinions and enjoy hearing them just as much as men. (yes I'm referring to a reputation comment you posted earlier)

Maybe sitting back and looking at the board for what it is would help you get a feel for how things are here, look in the market feedback, look in the other sections, you'll see the normal good and bad. The past week or so has been a very strange one around here and I think judging the board for it in isolation is probably a disservice to the board. I accept responsibility for all my posts, they are my opinions in as much as the information I have been given, if I have made an erroneous opinion in your judgement then by all means feel free to point out my flaws in logic and deductive reasoning. I will thank you for it and learn from it. If you have issues with me questioning motivations and statements when I don't understand them then I'm sorry I have nothing to offer you, for I will always do so unapologetically. I would also like to point out that the questions in the post you deemed rude remain unanswered and are still valid in my opinion. I believe that most here go to great lengths not to attack the poster personally and simply take issue/a stance on what is said and respect the person.

I'm not sure what credentials you possess in board moderation, conflict mediation, etc however maybe you should elaborate on those if you would like to promote one way or another. Maybe you have information the rest of us don't or maybe you're just smarter than I am and see how things fall in line in ways I don't. Regardless, you come across differently than that to me in your posts.

Welcome to the board.

QS

[Holsworth]

[youstruckgold]

lol! Couldn't have put it better myself!