Hypocrisy

[Drow]

If Dan is involved in these wonderfully ethical new standards one would also assume that FP Geeks will no longer shamelessly promote his nib services which I am sure are not being offered for altruistic reasons. What a facade this "time out is"!

[mhosea]

I fail to see how the word "hypocrisy" could be rationally applied to either party in this disagreement, at least as I understand it with the limited information that I have available. The "new" ethics are the current ones. Some restrictions of the original ethics were apparently removed at some time in the past. My understanding is that it is Eric, not Dan, who wishes to restore the ethics to their previous, stronger form, and Eric, not Dan, who imposed the time-out.

[Drow]

I fail to see how the word "hypocrisy" could be rationally applied to either party in this disagreement, at least as I understand it with the limited information that I have available. The "new" ethics are the current ones with some restrictions of the original ethics removed. My understanding is that it is Eric, not Dan, who wishes to restore the ethics to their previous, stronger form, and Eric, not Dan, who imposed the time-out.

I support Eric's initiative. But Dan has to accept responsibility for allowing himself to succumb to his self-promotion.

[Jon Szanto]

I support Eric's initiative. But Dan has to accept responsibility for allowing himself to succumb to his self-promotion.

Are there not other repair people who mention their services here? Do people also not recommend and promote members of the pen world who offer various work to be done? Does overseeing the running of the board disallow him to speak about his nib and restoration services?

More to the point, why mention it now? I've not seen anyone complain before. I see no ads on the site, and other than showing the work he does, any "self-promotion" has been pretty benign.

I don't know, just hasn't affected me, but this place is always open for discussion, so if it was an issue, I never saw it brought up.

[Jon Szanto]

What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college.

[Drow]

What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college.

Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more

[Jon Szanto]

Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more

No worries. I'm just trying to urge patience, in my comments here and on other sites, until things are a little more transparent. Drama can snowball pretty fast, and there will be plenty of time to open up these issues when we are certain this home is in place. Hope I didn't seem to come down too hard.

[Quantum Sailor]

What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college.

Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more

I'm curious as to what you found inappropriate about a moderator on a fountain pen site offering nib grinding services? Unless you're someone who is a lot more active on the board hiding behind a different name it doesn't appear that you have been on the site enough to have one opinion or another about it other than mere observation.

Do you offer your own nib services and feel its an unfair advantage?

Do you feel the same way about the posters who put up images of the pens they've turned and the sellers who post images of their pens?

Or do you feel there is some violation of ethics in a person who moderates a site posting their own work on that site?

As to your first post do you feel someone should offer their work for free just out of hopes we have pens that write as we want? If that's the case then your issue should be directed at the world not necessarily one person.

To be fair I don't know Dan except from posts I've read and one or two message exchanges that were very short, so I can't say if hypocrisy is involved in how he does things, I just am curious for a bit more clarification in your statements given the way they were posted.

[Dreck]

What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college.

Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more

Deal with it. Nobody is forcing you to read the ads or use the service. If it seems so horribly unethical to you, nothing prevents you from starting a site of your own

[Drow]

[QUOTE=Dreck;118856]

What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college.

Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more

Deal with it. Nobody is forcing you to read the ads or use the service. If it seems so horribly unethical to you, nothing prevents you from starting a site of your own[/

The site is down. Feedback was asked for. I responded. Deal with it!

[mhosea]

Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

[cwent2]

Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

how do you get coffee out of a monitor - my lol made a mess!

[Farmboy]

Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

[Drow]

Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

[sharmon202]

Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

So how do we have a forum as this is and not allow it to become a primarily sales tool for anyone, moderator or not. I would not enjoy this if it was taken over and sales driven. Where is the line and how to walk it? Decide how to do this then write the ethic/purpose statement? So people making decisions on posts can or cannot also participate? Just because they participate they cannot be objective? Food for thought I guess. Thanks for moving to contribute, Drow.

[tandaina]

Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

Read the ethical standards again. The OLD standards would have had a problem with the moderator/owner selling items or providing services. But those items (outlined in red on the main page) are *no longer* in the ethical standards. The *current* standards move FPGeeks in a more commercial direction. What isn't clear to me is if the Current standard is how it will stay, or if Eric didn't like that change and wants to go back. Who the *heck* knows. (And I honestly don't give a crap so long as the *forums* stay as they are and up.) I'd be very happy to see the forum part ways with the main FPGeeks website and just let this community run itself.

[Jon Szanto]

My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

Part of the confusion in all of this, confusion which I am mighty interested in getting cleared up, is that there are at least TWO people involved in these issue: one is Dan, who has been running things and is the one who does the pen work (and has raised some issues with you because of that), and the second is Eric, who is the one who (apparently) issued forth the new ethical guidelines. I am unclear as to how much coordination is going on between the two, so one hope it becomes settled, but that may explain some of the contradiction.

[dannzeman]

...The Andersons are thankfully mediating, once again proving themselves invaluable to the pen community...

Let's get one thing clear, the Andersons are not mediating. They're clearly on Eric's side defending his action.

...I am unclear as to how much coordination is going on between the two...

There's been no communication. I've called and left a message. I've sent a text message. I've PMed Eric here. I've emailed him at multiple addresses. I've sent messages through various social networks.

He's not responded to any of them.

At this point, I have to assume he no longer wants me involved with FPGeeks.

[Tony Rex]

Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

Which gives you an automatic right to parade your ethical standard on dannzeman?

[mhosea]

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

Last night I misread that as "or the team I'm on will put me on the beach." That sounded more ominous somehow.