Future of the FP Geeks Forum

[reprieve]

Eric, first off, let me say thank you for making that post. I appreciate your effort to address our questions and for reading through all of our comments. This is exactly what I meant earlier when I said that I hoped for transparency and that I hoped that you would make some sort of statement about what your vision for the future of the community is. Your description of the camaraderie and the lifelong friendships that develop organically at pen shows is apt and is certainly something valuable and worthwhile to aspire to recreate online. At least thus far, I think the FPGeeks Forum has done a better job than others of tapping into that pen show spirit (though I've got to acknowledge that David Isaacson's Fountain Pen Board is also excellent in this regard, especially if you're into vintage pens). And, of course, I'm very happy to hear that you want to allow the community to retain its autonomy and self-determination.

Never did I imagine that my statement, "The FPGeeks Forum belongs to the community," would be interpreted as "so the community should pay for it." That is absolutely not what I meant and I think my request that the donate button not be utilized should have made that clear. Since day one of FPGeeks and this forum, I have covered all associated costs without assistance and without complaint. From the opening paragraphs of this post you should gather that supporting this forum is something from which I receive great joy and satisfaction. That will not change.

I can't help but wonder: If you've been funding this venture all along, why was the "donate" button put out there in the first place, and where, exactly, did our donations go when we contributed to the forum financially? I maintain hope that there was no wrongdoing in this regard and that any indication otherwise is mere speculation and rumor.

I've come across one post that asked, not to me but to another forum member, "Who the fuck are you?" I felt that question was rude in both tone and vocabulary, but as no other forum member seemed to take umbrage - at least publicly - I took no action.

I've certainly come across posts that were, shall we say, blunt, directed at me. I have taken no action. Rumors of me having a heavy hand are based on nothing but assumption. I realize I opened myself up to backlash and I am standing here, on the carpet, taking it.

Thank you, also, for not censoring or moderating those posts. We are generally pretty good at self-policing. If someone is inordinately rude, that person is usually called out for it. In that particular case, I think the "Who the fuck are you?" question was responding in kind to another member whose other posts in that thread were speculative and, well, not very kind. Not the best response, perhaps, but I'm glad that those feelings could be expressed.

The great thing about this forum is that we treat each other like adults. Not all members are always respectful, but most people around here usually are, and the freedom to say what we think and feel without fear of administrative reprisal is worth the occasional insult. I value that openness more than I can adequately express.

With regard to spam, the posts are generally (or always) submitted by a new user as a first (and last) post. We could, I believe, change things so that every new user's first post is moderated. This, as with everything in life, has its pros and its cons.

I would vote that first posts not be automatically moderated. The story of Maryanne illustrates the point well. And, as others have noted, poking fun at spam can provide us with some levity--which, in the past few days, has been sorely needed around here.

[jde]

I can't help but wonder: If you've been funding this venture all along, why was the "donate" button put out there in the first place, and where, exactly, did our donations go when we contributed to the forum financially? I maintain hope that there was no wrongdoing in this regard and that any indication otherwise is mere speculation and rumor.

A very important question, Jen. Appreciate your voicing it for us.

[fountainpenkid]

deleted to prevent further speculation.

[Laura N]

I can't help but wonder: If you've been funding this venture all along, why was the "donate" button put out there in the first place, and where, exactly, did our donations go when we contributed to the forum financially? I maintain hope that there was no wrongdoing in this regard and that any indication otherwise is mere speculation and rumor.

A very important question, Jen. Appreciate your voicing it for us.

This was somewhat discussed on a FB thread about all this. Lisa Anderson:
"That PayPal donate button was not put there by Eric, as he said in his FPGeeks forum post last night. The donate button was supposedly for hosting fees, increased bandwidth charges etc. the problem with that? The payments went to a personal paypal account, not an FPGeeks account. The bigger problem with that? Eric hosts the site and pays for any/all associated website costs. At least 89 sweet thoughtful caring generous people who donated over $1500 should be asking where did that money go? Here's a hint - Eric had never received a dime. And the kicker? Ask who also hosts dans personal website. Eric did NOT take down that site when FPGeeks went dark, he did not make it a personal vendetta. Ask how much Dan pays for the hosting and other fees for his personal site."
Make of it what you will...

I just really think people should be very careful here. I think republishing potentially harmful allegations is very unwise. None of us knows the whole story except the two principals. We are talking about people's reputation here. Let's just stop this line of discussion. Please.

I'm one who donated. I don't remember anything ever being said about increased bandwith or web hosting fees -- perhaps she's mistaking Dan's contribution button with Wim's FPN contribution requests, which I recall he always says is because of how expensive FPN is to host. I've donated to both sites, and this is my memory. What I remember about Dan's contribution button was that it said something like "Support Fountain Pen Geeks" or something vague like that. I donated assuming it was going to Dan, who was running FPG, at least as it appeared to me.

If Lisa Anderson, as quoted, is claiming that Eric should have gotten some or all of the money, I think that could be a fair question, legally, but that depends on what their arrangement was. Were they partners? Boss and employee? Was Eric even involved with the website at that time? We don't know the facts. We therefore can't speculate. So let's not do so publicly.

Eric has just said an hour ago -- to his great credit -- that he pays the fees willingly. "I have covered all associated costs without assistance and without complaint. From the opening paragraphs of this post you should gather that supporting this forum is something from which I receive great joy and satisfaction. That will not change." That sure sounds like "I don't want the money." Does he know that someone is making these other statements, because these seem to come from a different place, where it's about money. I find that impossible to square. So I'm going to take Eric at his word. He doesn't want the money. To his credit.

I just really, really think that we need to stop fanning these flames with speculation. We do not know the arrangement between Dan and Eric. We have no idea what happened. They can't tell us publicly either. I've been silent on this till now, and this is why. This is harmful. From what I know, these are two good people. So this whole dispute is making me a little sick. I don't want the forum to be dragged into this -- it undermines the whole place.

Again, I donated. To FPN and to FPG. I assumed the money would go to the people running the sites, to Wim and Dan, respectively. It's expensive to run a website -- it takes time and energy. I don't begrudge them. Hear this: I, donor, don't care where my money went. I'm not going to join, or even watch, a tarring and feathering brigade either. Don't Stephen Brown and Gourmet Pens ask for donations? Are we supposed to ask them for an accounting, too? FPN?

I don't want to see people dragged through the mud. I am grateful to Dan and to Eric for the forum. I will not watch this any more. I will now give myself a timeout.

[reprieve]

deleted to prevent further speculation.

I'm not on Facebook, so I don't know what's been said there (or anywhere else outside of this forum for that matter).

I suppose I'm the one who's asking where that money went. The question, to my knowledge, hasn't been answered. I continue to withhold judgment until I know more; given Dan's dedication to the forum and to our community here, I think he is owed the benefit of the doubt.

[fountainpenkid]

Laura, I fully agree with what you have said and think I made a mistake posting that here. My deepest apologies to everyone, especially Dan. It was NOT intended on my part to have a negative effect on anyone's reputation; I just posted it on impulse. If those who copied the text would delete it, I would appreciate it; however I would understand if you choose not to.

[TerraNoir]

All I can say is Wow.... Thank you so much Eric for the update on the status on the forum. That at least makes me feel a little bit better.

As to the items being placed, allegations or rumors, they are a touch unsettling. Perhaps those answers will come in time or never at all. I should hope since it is about someone everyone here has come to know and love. I guess the ball is in Dan's court to say his piece or not. He did say he would.

[reprieve]

I just read Laura's post above.

I want to apologize for having anything to do with the negative turn this conversation took. The question about the donations popped into my mind and I asked it. Perhaps I shouldn't have. To accuse anyone of any wrongdoing is absolutely unfair and was not at all my intention.

I have the utmost respect for how Dan ran this forum, which I think is clear from my other posts, and, as I said above, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I am unhappy about the way things were handled in recent days, and, while I find Eric's statement at least somewhat reassuring, I still have unanswered questions and am still uneasy about the future. But I'm hoping for the best.

[youstruckgold]

Goodness, gracious - what a hullaballoo!

Every site can always improve, start new things, end old things, change format etc, etc.

If some suggestions or poll had gone up in the first place, none of this slightly angst-ridden conversation would have been necessary. We could have made suggestions, seen some accepted, some rejected and the site move on.

I have been very happy with this site. Very happy. I echo some of the comments by others that the over-administration and rules of that "other" site, is what led me to the good humour that resides (usually) here. That good humour was driven by the two gents we all associate with the site. The name itself "FPGeeks" has a wonderful self-depreciatory tone that says "hey everyone, we love what we are, and we don't care if it's a little dorky". If soul-searching must be done, then let's not forget to start at the vision that gave birth to this site. We are a group of people with a common interest who want to share that interest, share a laugh, and not take ourselves too seriously. After that, the rest should flow naturally.

[cwent2]

Eric

Thank you!

As for moderating a new comers first post, I would add my 2 cents to keep it as it is as the spamer's are being reported and removed.

I too can not get to pen show's and am relatively new to the hobby, this forum and fellow geeks have been invaluable in providing me with additional information about the characteristics of X pen. I have also received offer's from fellow geeks to let me borrow their pen - I can not imagine anybody doing that for anyone anywhere else - this truly is a special place, with special people.

Just for what it's worth I am grateful that I found this forum and would be not be enjoying fountain pens in the same manner with out this group.

Oh and for everyone else - Thank you for making this forum a second home - and answering my sometimes silly questions.

Thanks again

[dannzeman]

As TerraNoir mentioned, I did say I would make a statement, a video, in fact. I've chosen not to do a video and may or may not make a statement. I want to make sure whatever I say isn't fueled by emotion and spontaneity.

As far as Lisa's comments go, well, she doesn't know all the details. Nor do I know all the details regarding Eric's actions, past or present. And he doesn't know all the details regarding my actions, past or present. I'm certain that once Eric and I, and only Eric and I, can discuss this topic, and many, many others, we can both achieve a better understanding of each other's views, feelings, and reactions.

[earthdawn]

As TerraNoir mentioned, I did say I would make a statement, a video, in fact. I've chosen not to do a video and may or may not make a statement. I want to make sure whatever I say isn't fueled by emotion and spontaneity.

As far as Lisa's comments go, well, she doesn't know all the details. Nor do I know all the details regarding Eric's actions, past or present. And he doesn't know all the details regarding my actions, past or present. I'm certain that once Eric and I, and only Eric and I, can discuss this topic, and many, many others, we can both achieve a better understanding of each other's views, feelings, and reactions.

I sure hope so... whatever is going on between you two is just that.. between you two.

I certainly have greatly appreciated your help, advice, support, friendship and deep dedication to our hobby.

Countries have gone to war and later become friends again so I hope to see you guys work it out with care and understanding as many of us were rattled by all this. So many friendships have begun here and so much beyond just pens has been shared as well.

Im sitting back quietly and truly hoping for the best.

[Jon Szanto]

---

Hey, I'll stand in the flames, if no one else will. I have a Nomex suit and a big heart.

---

To the members of the Forums of FPG, and to Eric, the owner

I've come home from a day of not one, two, or three, but four very positive events, only to find this. That stuff in red is not a quote from someone else, but that's me, how I feel, right now.

No, I'm not satisfied. For each and every person who thanked our former moderator in a thread dedicated to that function, there is a gaping void. A surface balm does not, in the least, effect a cure on the deeper problems, and the fact that someone who had, in exemplary manner, dispatched his duties and is now summarily relieved of said duties - with no reason given whatsoever - does not fly.

Worse, it doesn't bode well at all for the rest of us. It is a grand "sweeping under the carpet". Been there, had that done, in other forums. Some guy gets booted, no transparency, there is precisely zero confidence the same thing or similar can't happen to any member here. Why? You'll never know, because you can't handle the truth, or some rubbish.

It should be obvious that I am royally pissed, massively disappointed, and completely energized. I have spent the last 3 days or so paying attention to a group of people that I have come to care a lot about, and I'll daresay possibly more so than an owner who abidicates for an extended period. Daresay, I said, because I don't know all the details. There is hubris here, and impulsive behavior, and a complete lack of any thanks for how this forum has been dealt with over that same extended period.

And lots and lots of questions.

Why now? Why no tweaking or even casual attention to any problems at any time in the past? How is it that - BOOM! - someone is offed, and... oh, we should all feel cozy now?

A long day, it's been. This is less informational and more emotional than some of the posts I may make. I'll probably gather myself, hopefully in the light of more information, and make a cogent, reasoned, and planned response to all of this. But make no mistake: I am not placated, I am not satisfied and I am not happy. This is a pen show room where someone has been brutally attacked, and that isn't the kind of pen show I like to attend.

At this point, there is simply no excuse for what has transpired, most certainly in the manner with which it has transpired.

None.

If any of you have read my posts from the last few days, you know what I'm about. You know the kind of person I am, and what kind of empathy I have for a community of like-driven souls. Don't expect any less than complete passion for something as "trivial", as some people have so callously alluded, as a discussion forum. I know full well this opens me up to disparagement. I choose this territory, and I'll accept what comes with it.

And I'm not done.

[Jon Szanto]

As TerraNoir mentioned, I did say I would make a statement, a video, in fact. I've chosen not to do a video and may or may not make a statement. I want to make sure whatever I say isn't fueled by emotion and spontaneity.

As far as Lisa's comments go, well, she doesn't know all the details. Nor do I know all the details regarding Eric's actions, past or present. And he doesn't know all the details regarding my actions, past or present. I'm certain that once Eric and I, and only Eric and I, can discuss this topic, and many, many others, we can both achieve a better understanding of each other's views, feelings, and reactions.

As to the first part, damn! I just made a hyper-emotional statement, so more power to you.

As to the second part: I am constantly and deeply hopeful that the seemingly incoherent lack of communication is ended, and you both can come to terms that are mutually beneficial for the three parties - you, Eric, and the many members of this forum.

My best wishes to you.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

<peeks form behind the sofa>

I find all this very confusing. I don't properly know anyone on this board (as none of you really know, or want to know, me), at least not beyond a member name. So my connection here is practically non-existent. The recent events have no context for me. I have seen Dan the Moderator as having a very light hand, and that the forum seems to run without glitches. And I have seen that Eric the Owner has posted his name and contact details but I still have no idea who he is.

Despite those things the forum has been entertaining and informative and, it has to be said, too often personally challenging (I am quite a bit below the standards of education and status usually seen here). It would be nice if it survived whatever is going on now.

[Ste_S]

---

Hey, I'll stand in the flames, if no one else will. I have a Nomex suit and a big heart.

---

To the members of the Forums of FPG, and to Eric, the owner

I've come home from a day of not one, two, or three, but four very positive events, only to find this. That stuff in red is not a quote from someone else, but that's me, how I feel, right now.

No, I'm not satisfied. For each and every person who thanked our former moderator in a thread dedicated to that function, there is a gaping void. A surface balm does not, in the least, effect a cure on the deeper problems, and the fact that someone who had, in exemplary manner, dispatched his duties and is now summarily relieved of said duties - with no reason given whatsoever - does not fly.

Worse, it doesn't bode well at all for the rest of us. It is a grand "sweeping under the carpet". Been there, had that done, in other forums. Some guy gets booted, no transparency, there is precisely zero confidence the same thing or similar can't happen to any member here. Why? You'll never know, because you can't handle the truth, or some rubbish.

It should be obvious that I am royally pissed, massively disappointed, and completely energized. I have spent the last 3 days or so paying attention to a group of people that I have come to care a lot about, and I'll daresay possibly more so than an owner who abidicates for an extended period. Daresay, I said, because I don't know all the details. There is hubris here, and impulsive behavior, and a complete lack of any thanks for how this forum has been dealt with over that same extended period.

And lots and lots of questions.

Why now? Why no tweaking or even casual attention to any problems at any time in the past? How is it that - BOOM! - someone is offed, and... oh, we should all feel cozy now?

A long day, it's been. This is less informational and more emotional than some of the posts I may make. I'll probably gather myself, hopefully in the light of more information, and make a cogent, reasoned, and planned response to all of this. But make no mistake: I am not placated, I am not satisfied and I am not happy. This is a pen show room where someone has been brutally attacked, and that isn't the kind of pen show I like to attend.

At this point, there is simply no excuse for what has transpired, most certainly in the manner with which it has transpired.

None.

If any of you have read my posts from the last few days, you know what I'm about. You know the kind of person I am, and what kind of empathy I have for a community of like-driven souls. Don't expect any less than complete passion for something as "trivial", as some people have so callously alluded, as a discussion forum. I know full well this opens me up to disparagement. I choose this territory, and I'll accept what comes with it.

And I'm not done.

Well said.

What Eric has done isn't very fair - chiefly :-
1. Take the entire site down, replaced the front page with accusations without signing his name to them. Some of them are quite serious - taking bribes for preferential reviews. Then not elaborate on the accusations
2. Have his personal cheerleaders (the Andersons) pop up on forums and Facebook continuing to make vague accusations without elaboration and stir it up.

Some dialogue should have happened before any of this, and sorted out in private. It's a shame looking back on the Awesome Reviews and early podcasts that these two aren't speaking anymore.

If I was more active here, I'd be worried about the furture of the forum. Either the owner either goes absentee for a long period of time, and/or chucks his toys out of the pram again and shuts it down.

[reprieve]

No, I'm not satisfied. For each and every person who thanked our former moderator in a thread dedicated to that function, there is a gaping void. A surface balm does not, in the least, effect a cure on the deeper problems, and the fact that someone who had, in exemplary manner, dispatched his duties and is now summarily relieved of said duties - with no reason given whatsoever - does not fly.

Worse, it doesn't bode well at all for the rest of us. It is a grand "sweeping under the carpet". Been there, had that done, in other forums. Some guy gets booted, no transparency, there is precisely zero confidence the same thing or similar can't happen to any member here.

This is how I feel, too. Thanks for articulating it, Jon. There's really not much else to say. I hope I see you all at a pen show some day.

[TerraNoir]

---

Hey, I'll stand in the flames, if no one else will. I have a Nomex suit and a big heart.

---

To the members of the Forums of FPG, and to Eric, the owner

I've come home from a day of not one, two, or three, but four very positive events, only to find this. That stuff in red is not a quote from someone else, but that's me, how I feel, right now.

No, I'm not satisfied. For each and every person who thanked our former moderator in a thread dedicated to that function, there is a gaping void. A surface balm does not, in the least, effect a cure on the deeper problems, and the fact that someone who had, in exemplary manner, dispatched his duties and is now summarily relieved of said duties - with no reason given whatsoever - does not fly.

Worse, it doesn't bode well at all for the rest of us. It is a grand "sweeping under the carpet". Been there, had that done, in other forums. Some guy gets booted, no transparency, there is precisely zero confidence the same thing or similar can't happen to any member here. Why? You'll never know, because you can't handle the truth, or some rubbish.

It should be obvious that I am royally pissed, massively disappointed, and completely energized. I have spent the last 3 days or so paying attention to a group of people that I have come to care a lot about, and I'll daresay possibly more so than an owner who abidicates for an extended period. Daresay, I said, because I don't know all the details. There is hubris here, and impulsive behavior, and a complete lack of any thanks for how this forum has been dealt with over that same extended period.

And lots and lots of questions.

Why now? Why no tweaking or even casual attention to any problems at any time in the past? How is it that - BOOM! - someone is offed, and... oh, we should all feel cozy now?

A long day, it's been. This is less informational and more emotional than some of the posts I may make. I'll probably gather myself, hopefully in the light of more information, and make a cogent, reasoned, and planned response to all of this. But make no mistake: I am not placated, I am not satisfied and I am not happy. This is a pen show room where someone has been brutally attacked, and that isn't the kind of pen show I like to attend.

At this point, there is simply no excuse for what has transpired, most certainly in the manner with which it has transpired.

None.

If any of you have read my posts from the last few days, you know what I'm about. You know the kind of person I am, and what kind of empathy I have for a community of like-driven souls. Don't expect any less than complete passion for something as "trivial", as some people have so callously alluded, as a discussion forum. I know full well this opens me up to disparagement. I choose this territory, and I'll accept what comes with it.

And I'm not done.

Snaps! Well put and well done. This is how I have been feeling, but it would have not come out that way. It would have came out like something Samuel L. Jackson would say. All the colorful four letter words and all. The only thing that is serving as a balm is that the forum will not just vanish out of thin air again. There are probably many answers to many many questions. To which, I have a bad feeling, no answers will come. I, personally, hope for the best for Eric and Dan. Maybe one day they will make amends.

[TSherbs]

As TerraNoir mentioned, I did say I would make a statement, a video, in fact. I've chosen not to do a video and may or may not make a statement. I want to make sure whatever I say isn't fueled by emotion and spontaneity.

As far as Lisa's comments go, well, she doesn't know all the details. Nor do I know all the details regarding Eric's actions, past or present. And he doesn't know all the details regarding my actions, past or present. I'm certain that once Eric and I, and only Eric and I, can discuss this topic, and many, many others, we can both achieve a better understanding of each other's views, feelings, and reactions.

I sure hope so... whatever is going on between you two is just that.. between you two.

I certainly have greatly appreciated your help, advice, support, friendship and deep dedication to our hobby.

Countries have gone to war and later become friends again so I hope to see you guys work it out with care and understanding as many of us were rattled by all this. So many friendships have begun here and so much beyond just pens has been shared as well.

Im sitting back quietly and truly hoping for the best.

Well put.

[Holsworth]

I've been reading all the discussions about this for the last few days, and I agree with a lot of points that people have raised.

I've only been a member here since mid last year, but I've made some good friends here and it's definitely one of my Internet homes. My entire knowledge of fpgeeks is of Dan running the show. I've barely spoken to him in that time, I couldn't even really call him an acquaintance, let alone a friend, but I admired the way the forum is run. I've been a member of many fora, administered a couple, even co-run one. This is the best managed forum I've ever been part of, and that is thanks to Dan. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that I'd like Dan to carry on doing that. Whether or not that's possible I don't know, and I don't care to speculate on the details. Just my opinion.

As for the main site, I haven't spent a huge amount of time on it, but glanced every now and then. Reviews have been helpful when I've been looking up a specific pen, but I've never just browsed. As with the forum, I thought that was a solo Dan show too. I've only heard of Eric since I logged on to find that time out message, and Dan was kind enough to tell a few of us on Instagram that Eric had taken it down without his knowledge. With regards to its future direction, I would of course like to see it continue. To keep it regularly up to date, maybe forum members could contribute reviews of pens/inks/papers etc, in a specific site format, with minimum photo quality specified or similar. I've been a member of a site (not fp related) that was entirely made of user submissions, it was very successful. I think the website has/had valuable content, and if I'm googling something I'll always click on a FPG link before a FPN one. Personally, I have no issue with a commercial aspect to the site, be it advertising (if relevant), sales or whatever. As long as the content is unbiased.

I won't be "picking sides", though I do wish the not so subtle accusations of wrong doing would stop. Either be completely open and transparent with what's going on and let us make up our own minds, or say nothing at all. Of course certain Facebook posts mentioned previously aren't helping in that regard, and those people should stop spreading rumours, or implying that they know all the details (whether they do or not). Any information needs to come from Eric or Dan themselves, not a third party.