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Thread: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

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    Default Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by eriquito View Post
    My thinking is in line with that of jfsisler - no one wants to know the truth. Knowing would only cause people to form opinions, make judgements, and take sides. I don't want that. All I've ever wanted is a fun place on-line where we could all happily geek out over fountain pens while waiting to attend the next pen show. I don't believe that's asking too much and I know it can be accomplished.


    I currently have no idea what direction the main fpgeeks.com website might go. What I do know is that if it comes back, it will once again be decidedly non-commercial.


    As to the forum itself... I'll say this:


    The FPGeeks Forum belongs to the community.


    FPGeeks, the name, has been plural from the beginning and that was no accident. I have always thought of all of us as being FPGeeks.


    It was not my intention to bring down the forum yesterday. It was an oversight and I corrected the grievous error just as soon as I was at a computer keyboard.


    I humbly and sincerely apologize.


    And now... to the future.


    writingrav suggested a sort of board of directors, made up of forum members, that control the board itself. I support and welcome this suggestion - or anything similar that would ensure I never again lose my mind and block access to the forum.


    If there is true interest in this idea, please, someone start a new thread and we can all discuss it there - out in the open and with complete transparency.


    Some have suggested financial trouble might have played a roll in the FPGeeks time out. It is not financial trouble. At least, not in the way you would think. I believe I have disabled the donation button in the forum. If that is not the case, please do not use the button. I did not put the button there and I'll have to figure out how to remove it.


    The only other item I would like address at this time is Tim Hofmann's beautifully disturbing diatribe. It's based on partial knowledge and much ignorance, but I will say this: I know Tim - and he would have been perfectly happy saying all of that to my face. For that, I salute him. Heck, I'd even hug him if I were at the Baltimore Pen Show. He's a good guy.


    Thank you all very much for your kind attention.


    I have the pleasure to remain,
    yours truly,


    Eric Schneider
    Taking Eric's suggestion to start a new thread for interested members to discuss the future of this community.

    IMHO, any disagreements between Eric and Dan should be resolved by them and if they do not wish to share their private issues, it is their right. Of course, if they do choose to share once a resolution has been reached, that would be very much appreciated.

    If there is no one with enough time to take over the responsibility of the forum is found, perhaps we can have each sub-forum managed by a specific member if there are enough volunteers to take this approach.

    However, I for one would prefer for Dan and Eric to work out their differences and for things on the forum to continue as they were. That is my best case scenario.

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    For me too. Dan did an excellent job with the forum and I would like to see the forum to remain as it was.

    For the site? Honestly it wasn't all that useful recently, mostly new of pens I couldn't afford. I would love to see more contributors give reviews of a better range of pens, and cover things that aren't reviews. How tos perhaps.
    ---
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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    More of what SBRE Brown did with the Ink Encyclopedia - Brian Grays segment on nib tuning on the pod cast Etc?
    Cw



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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    For me too. Dan did an excellent job with the forum and I would like to see the forum to remain as it was.

    For the site? Honestly it wasn't all that useful recently, mostly new of pens I couldn't afford. I would love to see more contributors give reviews of a better range of pens, and cover things that aren't reviews. How tos perhaps.
    Yes. The content was becoming mostly just alerts of releases that people already knew about; 'very fluffy', as some have put it. I think a new FPGeeks should focus on publishing interesting articles, not surface news content plagued with ridiculous manufacturer promotional 'information.' I would love to see some how tos (Dan's vintage Aurora 88 teardown is an amazing resource and he should do more of that sort of thing!), as well as more guest writers--experts in the field. Vintage pens were very underrepresented at late (other than Dan's helpful notifications about Gary Lehrer's catalog updates), so I think perhaps having a member of the team more focused on them would be great.
    Will
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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    From my perspective, I think Dan is an admirable administrator of the FPG Forum, and by far the most open, responsive and fair of any forum I've belonged to. I have personally experienced, in that other place, the negative & corrosive effect of over-moderation, content control & lack of transparency caused by vesting power in cliques & unchallengeable admin & moderators, & would hate to end up with a governance structure here that could result in something similar happening.

    FPG, whilst not being perfect, treats its members as grown-ups, capable of moderating & policing themselves, and this aspect, and the resulting culture & ethos of this forum, is admirable. Long may it continue.

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by cwent2 View Post
    More of what SBRE Brown did with the Ink Encyclopedia - Brian Grays segment on nib tuning on the pod cast Etc?
    Yes. The Inkcyclopedia was very fun! If something like it emerges in the future, however, I think the content should be a bit more condensed...not to the point of modern tech reviews (3 min of annoyingly read script supplemented with useless shots of the product), but to something less than 25 minutes.
    Will
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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by migo984 View Post
    From my perspective, I think Dan is an admirable administrator of the FPG Forum, and by far the most open, responsive and fair of any forum I've belonged to. I have personally experienced, in that other place, the negative & corrosive effect of over-moderation, content control & lack of transparency caused by vesting power in cliques & unchallengeable admin & moderators, & would hate to end up with a governance structure here that could result in something similar happening.

    FPG, whilst not being perfect, treats its members as grown-ups, capable of moderating & policing themselves, and this aspect, and the resulting culture & ethos of this forum, is admirable. Long may it continue.
    I, likewise, echo the fear of a governance structure that would result in a forum much like the others I have found. I have seriously walked away from hobbies because of it. Since not only did it affect the community, but the companies that produced the products. I am sitting cleanly on the fence about most of this. I just hope that the forum remains the same and that its just the actual site that gets "adjusted" to follow the ethics statement. Perhaps more contributors or authors can write various items. Since I know there are many here who could offer such valuable information.

    I, personally, found the "promotional" information that was posted and found it useful. Would I have liked to see other "lower end" products reviewed as well. Sure. But if that isn't something he is interested in. Then... Can't make it happen. That is why I think that perhaps those who wish to contribute a review or news should be able to do so.

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    [QUOTE=TerraNoir;118855]
    Quote Originally Posted by migo984 View Post

    I, likewise, echo the fear of a governance structure that would result in a forum much like the others I have found. I have seriously walked away from hobbies because of it.
    I am very new here and conscious of possibly commenting beyond what I have earned the right to do, however the above post struck a chord with me.

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    I think we don't realise what we've got until its gone and this week was a bit of a 'wake up call', I for one have really enjoyed my time here and look forward to viewing the comments every day. I suspect we also get very comfortable with what we've got and don't want change, I for one would not wish to change anything, but I did not realise how much work goes on behind the scenes. I would not relish a more structured approach such as that on another pen forum...

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by migo984 View Post
    From my perspective, I think Dan is an admirable administrator of the FPG Forum, and by far the most open, responsive and fair of any forum I've belonged to. I have personally experienced, in that other place, the negative & corrosive effect of over-moderation, content control & lack of transparency caused by vesting power in cliques & unchallengeable admin & moderators, & would hate to end up with a governance structure here that could result in something similar happening.

    FPG, whilst not being perfect, treats its members as grown-ups, capable of moderating & policing themselves, and this aspect, and the resulting culture & ethos of this forum, is admirable. Long may it continue.
    I find the pen, ink, and paper reviews at FPN more helpful because there are more reviewers. But I do look here, too. Some of Dan's video reviews are really well done (but those aren't in the forum). I don't really like the swearing and vulgarity here. If you want heaps of product reviews, look elsewhere. But I do check here, too, in a supplementary fashion. And I, too, miss Inkcyclopedia.

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Jeez Louise, I know this didn't happen because I had to take an extended time away from the online world. I mean, I ain't God/Goddess, right? Or did someone forget to tell me? So much chaos, stress, and drama going on!

    This particular thread one seems to be going for something constructive, and thank you to Neo for that. I hope others, too, prior to now took time to email their thoughts to that future email thingie that was on the front page. (Believe that's gone now.)

    I don't believe I've time to run a forum or sub-forum. Yet somehow I have an opinion: that the forum might be spun off to be a separate entity if those of us here don't frequent the "main" page. I suppose a poll or survey could be conducted perhaps via email to forum users.

    I wish both Eric and Dan well. Neither of them has harmed me, even if the forum went down temporarily. I appreciate Eric's apology, and his humor in suggesting he temporarily lost his mind. He did write, "the forum belongs to the community." Wow. Thank you! What a responsibility for all of us.

    I thought Dan was unusually wise when fistfights broke out among us. I've no need to bash either of them. I know nothing of what is really transpiring between them.

    I left FPN along with others of you who are here now. I left because of a lack of transparency concerning the changes, the commercialization of the site, and the bullying of moderators towards some very gentle users who I consider pen pals in the truest sense. And so, I may be in the minority among some of you now, that I still prefer a transparency about how a site is run, a non-commerical site (which is not the same as our meager classified section), and non-bullying moderators. That kind of forum, I do my best to contribute and participate in as I've done thus far.

    The online pen community has a history of ups and downs. Forums dying, or arguing into new ones... la-la-la-life goes on.

    We here at the forum of FPGeeks are a small, mostly enjoyable tribe, and I hope we find a way to continue and thrive.

    Peace out,
    Julie

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Julie, that is a very eloquent post, thank you. About one thing:

    Quote Originally Posted by jde View Post
    And so, I may be in the minority among some of you now, that I still prefer a transparency about how a site is run, a non-commerical site (which is not the same as our meager classified section), and non-bullying moderators. That kind of forum, I do my best to contribute and participate in as I've done thus far.
    Don't be quick to consider yourself part of a minority - I know that I feel precisely the same as you. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find many others think similarly.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    I hope the main site gets back up soon, hopeful to see a few administrative or moderators added. I would like to see Dan as a moderator. I have and hope to continue to enjoy the forum. I did not mind donating to the forum. It must cost somehow to keep it running.
    Mags or Rob Maguire MB 149, 147, 146,144, Mozart, Boehme, Sailor Realo, Aurora Optima, Churchmen Prescriptor and Parson's Essential, Parker 51 1.3 mm stub, Parker Vacumatic 1939 OB Can, TWSBI's (540,580, Mini and Vac 700), Pelikan M 1000/800 Demonstrator 600/200 demoM/200 OBB, Visconti Rembrandts (2), Lamy, Cross, Watermans, Pilots, Sheaffer's, Omas 360 LE 84/360, GvFC, Esterbrooks J and SJ, Bexley Jitterbug, Taccia, Eversharp 1952 flex, Edison Herald, Franklin Christoph Piper.

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Is the multi-moderator system (in which a moderator or two is assigned to a subforum) inherently flawed, or with a smaller, 'slower moving' forum such as this one, can it function well? With FPN, the system allowed for the establishment of an overbearing group of moderators and admin, but were there other factors that caused that to happen?
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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    If Dan does not return, perhaps we can all have input towards a system of check and balances? Maybe something like there must be a warning before future posts are deleted, may probation period given to think before canceling an account and a way for members to question a decision. I base these suggestions on how Dan had ran the forum, but if there is to be a change in leadership it's probably not a bad idea to have policies and procedures codified in some form.

    I would imagine real world responsibilities would prevent most of us from taking over for Dan, so I reiterate my opinion that it would be prefer that Dan take the reins again.

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by jde View Post
    Jeez Louise, I know this didn't happen because I had to take an extended time away from the online world. I mean, I ain't God/Goddess, right? Or did someone forget to tell me? So much chaos, stress, and drama going on!

    This particular thread one seems to be going for something constructive, and thank you to Neo for that. I hope others, too, prior to now took time to email their thoughts to that future email thingie that was on the front page. (Believe that's gone now.)

    I don't believe I've time to run a forum or sub-forum. Yet somehow I have an opinion: that the forum might be spun off to be a separate entity if those of us here don't frequent the "main" page. I suppose a poll or survey could be conducted perhaps via email to forum users.

    I wish both Eric and Dan well. Neither of them has harmed me, even if the forum went down temporarily. I appreciate Eric's apology, and his humor in suggesting he temporarily lost his mind. He did write, "the forum belongs to the community." Wow. Thank you! What a responsibility for all of us.

    I thought Dan was unusually wise when fistfights broke out among us. I've no need to bash either of them. I know nothing of what is really transpiring between them.

    I left FPN along with others of you who are here now. I left because of a lack of transparency concerning the changes, the commercialization of the site, and the bullying of moderators towards some very gentle users who I consider pen pals in the truest sense. And so, I may be in the minority among some of you now, that I still prefer a transparency about how a site is run, a non-commerical site (which is not the same as our meager classified section), and non-bullying moderators. That kind of forum, I do my best to contribute and participate in as I've done thus far.

    The online pen community has a history of ups and downs. Forums dying, or arguing into new ones... la-la-la-life goes on.

    We here at the forum of FPGeeks are a small, mostly enjoyable tribe, and I hope we find a way to continue and thrive.

    Peace out,
    Julie
    Agree entirely!!

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by fountainpenkid View Post
    Is the multi-moderator system (in which a moderator or two is assigned to a subforum) inherently flawed, or with a smaller, 'slower moving' forum such as this one, can it function well? With FPN, the system allowed for the establishment of an overbearing group of moderators and admin, but were there other factors that caused that to happen?
    My observation: any time human beings are involved, there can be problems. The more human beings, the more potential for problems. The *only* reason for multiple mods/admins on a site this small would be if one person didn't want to do it all. It would be less efficient and a rather unnecessary allocation of human resources.

    This site can, should, and has run fine with one person maintaining it. Should it grow much larger in the future, that can be revisited. The best solution still remains the most obvious one to many, if not most, of us.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fountainpenkid View Post
    Is the multi-moderator system (in which a moderator or two is assigned to a subforum) inherently flawed, or with a smaller, 'slower moving' forum such as this one, can it function well? With FPN, the system allowed for the establishment of an overbearing group of moderators and admin, but were there other factors that caused that to happen?
    My observation: any time human beings are involved, there can be problems. The more human beings, the more potential for problems. The *only* reason for multiple mods/admins on a site this small would be if one person didn't want to do it all. It would be less efficient and a rather unnecessary allocation of human resources.

    This site can, should, and has run fine with one person maintaining it. Should it grow much larger in the future, that can be revisited. The best solution still remains the most obvious one to many, if not most, of us.
    My thoughts exactly.
    Will
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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    [QUOTE=mustud52;118886]
    Quote Originally Posted by TerraNoir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by migo984 View Post

    I, likewise, echo the fear of a governance structure that would result in a forum much like the others I have found. I have seriously walked away from hobbies because of it.
    I am very new here and conscious of possibly commenting beyond what I have earned the right to do, however the above post struck a chord with me.
    Well this is just my opinion of course. The forum I was on there was seven moderators, that were called the Mag Seven. When they fought, EVERYONE felt it. When you made one of them mad, you got hit with it. If you tried to plead to the other six... That just made things worse. Not to mention that they were way more catty about things than a really bad reality TV show. Should. Governing body be established here, my hopes is those individuals work EXTREMELY well together. Especially since there is no idea of what really happened here. I can only express my hopes for this forum since I have enjoyed my time here. I have censored some posts here in fear of being biased.

    Furthermore, the reason why I walked away from the hobbies aforementioned is because they were quite niche. The companies that produced the actual products suffered from the drama of the Mag Seven and others. Since they were directly involved in organizing the shows for them. So prices went up, and not due to the economy. Just because people, like myself, got so frustrated with the community, just stopped buying.

    I will always buy pens, ink, and paper from now on. My love shall be quite unwavering. I'm just a touch nervous about it. Hopefully in the coming days more news will come out.

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    Default Re: Future of the FP Geeks Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by jde View Post
    I may be in the minority among some of you now, that I still prefer a transparency about how a site is run, a non-commerical site (which is not the same as our meager classified section), and non-bullying moderators. That kind of forum, I do my best to contribute and participate in as I've done thus far.
    Julie is a voice of reason and clarity once again.

    I do note, though, that there has been little to no transparency about how this site is now being run or even about who is in charge here. I don't care about the dirty laundry and the personal disputes--I don't mean that all of the drama should be made public--but rather that Eric, or whoever is now in charge, should make some statement about his intentions regarding the future of this forum, especially, and perhaps even the main site (which I do view, as I've said in other posts, and I realize I might be mistaken in my view, as completely separate entities). Why has Dan been stripped of his moderator status at this forum? Will he be reinstated, or has he been permanently exiled? Will Eric take over Dan's moderating duties, and, if so, will he allow us the same freedoms and will he be capable of exercising the same sort of self-restraint? Will he now be a reliable presence, or might he vanish into thin air once again? I hope that the past couple of days are no indication of the future: the heavy handedness and quick temper that led to a sudden shut down of the forum, without any warning whatsoever, is a bad omen. It has led me to lose trust in this place. I no longer see this forum as a haven but as a fickle friend. It may or may not be here tomorrow, and I--or any other member here--may or may not wake up one day to find that she is on the outside looking in.

  33. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to reprieve For This Useful Post:

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