Please help in identifying what Montblanc this is?

[Ryliko]

I have absolutely no clue what this is... any help please?

My knowledge with MB pens is very limited to begin with - being a newbie with their fountain pens and this forum (hello!). I only recently surged in interest when I decided to delve into the world of the 149 and I was hoping that this is one of them... but then I noticed the cap is squarish which is uncommon to the 149's. Additionally, it looks a bit slender for a 149 but I'm not even going to attempt to guess further what this pen is as I figure it leans towards more the vintage spectrum of Montblancs (a topic to which I have zero knowledge about).

I tried to do a google image search to which I came up short. I'm hoping now that your knowledgeable minds could help me out?

I also apologise for the picture quality, it's the only one that the seller included. I might go and take a look later to which I can take clearer and more detailed pics of it but I was hoping to have an idea whether it is of any interest to even make the trip?


mb.JPG



Thanking everyone in advance!

[Chrissy]

It's definitely not a 149.

Looking at that nib, it's some sort of vintage model and I don't know much about vintage Montblanc's.

The nib looks bent at the tip although that could be the photo.

[FredRydr]

The poor-quality photo makes it difficult to identify, but it appears to be an early 252 or 254 with a clear (not blue) ink window.

Fred

[jar]

It's a 25x, the x depends on the length. The 25x series are some of the nicest nibs MB ever produced but the series did suffer from cap lip cracks. If you can find one without cracks it will be a jewel.

[Ryliko]

Thank you all for your speedy responses.

Chrissy - I sort of knew but I was being hopeful :P

FredRydr and jar, thank you for identifying the pen in question! Comparing the pictures now, it is definitely the 25x series so thank you again.

Now with regards to the 25x series of MB's, can you point me towards a rough estimate on the value of them? I see one going for about $250 dollars but jar's linked post threw me off. Am I correct in assuming the prices you listed there are of when the pens were introduced (i.e. the historic cost)? Now as a I reiterate, the condition of the pen can't be ascertained yet as I haven't had a chance to go take a look. However, the seller is currently asking for R900 (South African Rand) which equates to about $75. Given the assumption that this pen is not in a pristine condition (I doubt it comes with the boxes nor will it be free of scratches) but if the pen is in a fine working condition, would that asking price be justifiable?

I think I'll go take a look at the pen later and report back with better pictures. I don't think the seller knows much about the pen as she couldn't even tell me if the pen was in a working condition - which is my biggest concern right now (if the ink flows nicely through the feed and if the piston mechanism is free of leaks). Given that I reside in South Africa and therefore have close to zero chance to service a vintage pen once I have purchased it, I am rather worried about the reliability of the pen after purchase.

I'll probably ink up the pen (if the seller allows this) to see if there are any issues straight away such as it leaking or having misaligned tines or an unreliable feed. However, I have no experience with a 25x series (or vintage fountain pens for that matter) so is there anything else that I should look out for other than those mentioned here or the cracked cap that jar highlighted upon?

Once again, thank you all in advance.

[jar]

Thank you all for your speedy responses.

Chrissy - I sort of knew but I was being hopeful :P

FredRydr and jar, thank you for identifying the pen in question! Comparing the pictures now, it is definitely the 25x series so thank you again.

Now with regards to the 25x series of MB's, can you point me towards a rough estimate on the value of them? I see one going for about $250 dollars but jar's linked post threw me off. Am I correct in assuming the prices you listed there are of when the pens were introduced (i.e. the historic cost)?

Yes, those are the 1950's list prices.

Try filling it with water first to check for leaks.

The cap cracks are common but also often stable and seem to not keep getting worse.

$250.00 seems like a bunch today even for a 256, the largest size and $75.00 sounds like a bargain if it fills and does not leak.

Sizes.

The 256 will be about the length of a modern Pelikan 600, the 254 about the same length as a Pelikan 400 and if it is smaller than that it will be the 252.

[Ryliko]

Yes, those are the 1950's list prices.

Try filling it with water first to check for leaks.

The cap cracks are common but also often stable and seem to not keep getting worse.

$250.00 seems like a bunch today even for a 256, the largest size and $75.00 sounds like a bargain if it fills and does not leak.

Sizes.

The 256 will be about the length of a modern Pelikan 600, the 254 about the same length as a Pelikan 400 and if it is smaller than that it will be the 252.

So I went to take a look and was even able to fill it with ink to test. Jar, it is the 252 with the newer wing shaped nib, not to mention it is pretty decent condition. The cap is not cracked whatsoever and still has quite a moderately snug fit. Some of the gold, especially on the clip, has shown signs of wear and tarnished a bit but nothing out the ordinary from a 65 year old pen. I was actually surprised there wasn't any more wear.

IMG_5576.JPGcap.jpgIMG_5580.JPG

The problem I have now though is that the tines are misaligned. It doesn't affect the smooth writing of the nib but I would like to know if it can easily be bent back? The nib is a 14c. Secondly, while the piston mechanism doesn't leak any ink, when I deplete the pen of ink there seems to be some ink that is still trapped in the chamber. Would this become a problem and a potential leak by the twist mechanism?

IMG_5584.JPGIMG_5577.JPGIMG_5579.JPG

Lastly, is this pen worth it being a 252?

[jar]

So I went to take a look and was even able to fill it with ink to test. Jar, it is the 252 with the newer wing shaped nib, not to mention it is pretty decent condition. The cap is not cracked whatsoever and still has quite a moderately snug fit. Some of the gold, especially on the clip, has shown signs of wear and tarnished a bit but nothing out the ordinary from a 65 year old pen. I was actually surprised there wasn't any more wear.



The problem I have now though is that the tines are misaligned. It doesn't affect the smooth writing of the nib but I would like to know if it can easily be bent back? The nib is a 14c. Secondly, while the piston mechanism doesn't leak any ink, when I deplete the pen of ink there seems to be some ink that is still trapped in the chamber. Would this become a problem and a potential leak by the twist mechanism?



Lastly, is this pen worth it being a 252?

The nib needs a little work but nothing beyond patience and fingernails. Other than that all looks great.

[elaineb]

Looks like a beautiful pen, and I'm not even a Montblanc fan. I agree with Jar that the nib isn't seriously damaged, just needs some tweaking. Might be worth sending it to a nibmeister to get it perfectly tuned.

[Ryliko]

The nib needs a little work but nothing beyond patience and fingernails. Other than that all looks great.

Looks like a beautiful pen, and I'm not even a Montblanc fan. I agree with Jar that the nib isn't seriously damaged, just needs some tweaking. Might be worth sending it to a nibmeister to get it perfectly tuned.

Thank you Jar and Elaineb, unfortunately though, there aren't any nibmeisters around so I'll have to resort to the good old way of bending it back with my fingernails. I've done it to my Waterman so hopefully the Montblanc would be even easier managed considering that it's gold.

The residual ink in the barrel isn't anything to worry about?

[jar]

Looks like a beautiful pen, and I'm not even a Montblanc fan. I agree with Jar that the nib isn't seriously damaged, just needs some tweaking. Might be worth sending it to a nibmeister to get it perfectly tuned.

Thank you Jar and Elaineb, unfortunately though, there aren't any nibmeisters around so I'll have to resort to the good old way of bending it back with my fingernails. I've done it to my Waterman so hopefully the Montblanc would be even easier managed considering that it's gold.

The residual ink in the barrel isn't anything to worry about?

Bend down not up. And it also looks like the tines are toughing at the tip.

Residual ink in the barrel is only an issue if it is getting past the piston head.

[Ryliko]

Looks like a beautiful pen, and I'm not even a Montblanc fan. I agree with Jar that the nib isn't seriously damaged, just needs some tweaking. Might be worth sending it to a nibmeister to get it perfectly tuned.

Thank you Jar and Elaineb, unfortunately though, there aren't any nibmeisters around so I'll have to resort to the good old way of bending it back with my fingernails. I've done it to my Waterman so hopefully the Montblanc would be even easier managed considering that it's gold.

The residual ink in the barrel isn't anything to worry about?

Bend down not up. And it also looks like the tines are toughing at the tip.

Residual ink in the barrel is only an issue if it is getting past the piston head.

Apologies for what may be a 'newb' question but what does "toughing at the tip" mean? Is that when the gold starts wearing off the end point of the nib?

Also, I can't quite fully remember now but I think the residual ink was getting past the piston head. Even when the piston was fully twisted down towards the feed, there was ink up against the piston head. When I retracted the piston head however, the ink didn't seem to drag beyond the piston head. I think the rubber plunger/seal (?) of the piston head has worn out a bit and doesn't quite seal off the barrel as well as it should. When I emptied the full barrel of ink back into the inkwell though, it pushed the ink fine. It was only the very last bit of ink that it couldn't push into feed and thus it remained in the barrel/past the piston head.

When I had the barrel full of ink I had the pen held vertically for a long while and there wasn't any issues with it leaking out the twist mechanism at the bottom of the pen. So it seems fine for now but is it likely to cause any issues in the long run?

[jar]

Apologies for what may be a 'newb' question but what does "toughing at the tip" mean? Is that when the gold starts wearing off the end point of the nib?

"toughing at the tip" means appalin spallin. Touching at the tip should be betterer.

The plastic piston heads seem far better than the cork ones and so should do fine. But even if it were a problem it is a small problem and there are folk that can fix that.

[Ryliko]

Ahh, got it now. I'll have a look again but it may just be the camera angle because the nib puts down a very very smooth and decently wet line for a fine. I imagine that if the tips were touching then writing with it would be very scratchy?

Once again I really appreciate the help Jar.


I'm rather new to forums but now that this thread is basically done, should I close it (delete it)?

[jar]

I'm rather new to forums but now that this thread is basically done, should I close it (delete it)?

Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore".

Never delete posts or threads unless they are spam. One day someone else will come along and find that you asked just the questions they wanted answered.

[Ryliko]

Thanks for the clarification. I confused myself there with the phrase of "closing threads" by moderators.

[FredRydr]

As to value, do a search in eBay on sold transactions for "Montblanc (254,252)" under the fountain pens sub-category of collectibles. Asking prices, BIN, reserves and minimum bids won't be much guidance.

Fred

[Ryliko]

As to value, do a search in eBay on sold transactions for "Montblanc (254,252)" under the fountain pens sub-category of collectibles. Asking prices, BIN, reserves and minimum bids won't be much guidance.

Fred

Thanks Fred! When I did that search, I was even more confused due to the price discrepancies of previous sales of the 252. Nevertheless, I really appreciated your suggestion with doing that search as it gave me greater peace of mind to go for the sale. I finally decided to take the plunge to own my first vintage Montblanc. The final price came down to just under $58 (using the current ZAR-USD exchange rate)

[CS388]

Nice work, Ryliko. That's a bargain!

Take your time with the nib, lots of small adjustments are preferable to one mighty push.

When ink is expelled from the pen, it is very common to have some ink left in the chamber.
Doesn't always mean the piston seal is damaged or worn.
As others have pointed out, this was a golden age for Montblanc nibs.
The wing nibs on the 25x pens are among the best (in my humble opinion).

When you cap it, you don't have to force it past the clutch ring (so that it clicks). I have found that these caps stay firmly in position without the click - and you'll want to do all you can to preserve that uncracked cap, because finding a replacement is a lo-ong and expensive business. (I speak from experience!)

Enjoy..

[Ryliko]

Thanks CS388! To be honest, I didn't even know that there was a click. I've just been lightly posting it so that the cap doesn't topple over. Rather have it come loose after a period of writing than, as you say, have it crack from being posted too hard.

The misaligned tines is quite an issue with horizontal right-left movements being extremely scratchy and thus causing me to rotate the pen to an unusual position to write. It's been a slow process getting them back into position but I think it's slowly getting there.