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Thread: Question about VAT for US residents

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Werner and Francis, thank you for the update and efforts to do the right thing.

    Thank you to the FPG community for all of your input and assistance in resolving this issue. Especially Chrissy, who provided her time and French translation very generously.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Excellent news for all of us Conid lovers.

    I can tell you this was the ONLY downside to my pen purchase, and now that's been rectified.

    My Kingsize bulkfiller is my favorite pen of the 50+ that I own, and I can't wait to receive my Minimalistica that I have on order.

    I am glad that I was part of the impetus to get the VAT issue resolved.

    As I do a lot of business in Europe from the USA, I was quite sure that Conid's former policy was incorrect, and I am glad they took the time to meet with the Belgian tax authority and get the issue resolved, and that they're going to refund those affected.

    My Conid Kingsize was a €705 pen so 21% of that is a significant amount of money that I didn't even know I was paying until the invoice came back to me after I'd done the wire transfer.

    Werner and Nadia did make it right, and I am glad to hear they're refunding others and putting the tax-free option on their website. That makes Conid's now 21% less money for those of us who live outside the EU.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Response from the Belgian VAT office......

    Notre référence: (prière de communiquer ce numéro lors de chaque contact avec le Contact Center)


    Sur la base des éléments que vous me communiquez, j’ai l’honneur de vous répondre ce qui suit.
    Extrait de l’Article 39 du code de la TVA belge (http://ccff02.minfin.fgov.be/KMWeb/d...20/#art_039_00) :
    « § 1er. Sont exemptées de la taxe :
    1° les livraisons de biens expédiés ou transportés, par le vendeur ou pour son compte, en dehors de la Communauté ;
    ...».

    Si le fournisseur a lui même expédié, ou fait expédier les biens par un transporteur à destination de votre adresse aux Etats-Unis d'Amérique, il était tenu de vous facturer la livraison de ces biens en exonération de la TVA pour cause d'exportation car il disposait forcément de la preuve de l'exportation.

    Si vous avez payé au fournisseur le prix TVA comprise, il doit vous rembourser la TVA et vous envoyer une note de crédit pour le montant de cette TVA avec pour mention "Exonération de la TVA en vertu de l'article 39, §1er, 1°, du Code de la TVA".

    Vous devez exiger vous-même ce remboursement auprès de votre fournisseur. Si vous nous communiquez par e-mail la copie de la facture avec les coordonnées complètes de votre fournisseur, nous ferons suivre votre plainte au contrôle TVA compétent pour suite utile.

    Pour toute information générale complémentaire, veuillez consulter le site web du SPF Finances (http://finances.belgium.be) ou téléphoner au Contact Center du SPF Finances au numéro de téléphone 0257/257 57 (tarif normal, tous les jours ouvrables de 8h à 17h).
    Last edited by Neo; April 3rd, 2015 at 11:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    translation......

    Our Reference: (please contact this number at each contact with the Contact Center)


    Based on the items you contact me, I have the honor to meet the following.
    Extract from Article 39 of the Belgian VAT Code (http://ccff02.minfin.fgov.be/KMWeb/d...20/#art_039_00) :
    "§ 1. Are exempt from the tax:
    1 ° deliveries of goods dispatched or transported by the vendor or on his behalf, outside the Community;
    ... ".

    If the supplier has shipped himself, or does ship the goods to a carrier of your address in the United States of America, he was required to charge you for the supply of goods exempt from VAT on account of exportation because it necessarily had proof of export.

    If you paid the supplier the price including VAT, it must refund the VAT and send you a credit note for the amount of the VAT with the words "Exemption from VAT pursuant to Article 39, §1, 1 ° of the VAT Code. "

    You must require such reimbursement yourself from your supplier. If you contact us by e-mail a copy of the invoice with full details of your supplier, we will forward your complaint to the relevant VAT check for further action.

    For more general information, please visit the FPS Finance website (http://finances.belgium.be) or call the Contact Center of the FPS Finance at the telephone number 0257/257 57 (normal rate, every working day 8h to 17h).

    Please accept, the assurances of our highest regards.

    Contact Center FPS Finance
    Tel. 0257/257 57 (normal rate, every working day from 8 am to 17 pm)
    http://finances.belgium.be
    Last edited by Neo; April 4th, 2015 at 02:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Hi fountain pen friends,
    I'm very happy to post a new message from Werner, the owner of CONID
    Best regards,
    Francis

    Dear Conid customers,
    A sincere " Thank You !" on the way you reacted on my earlier message concerning our resolution of the VAT issue !
    Below more details on how we are going to proceed :

    1- Prices will be corrected on our website in the coming weeks, meaning marked prices will be without VAT.
    So only EU buyers will have to add the 21% VAT

    2- As from today , non EU customers may directly deduct the 21% VAT from the actual mentioned prices when ordering a Bulkfiller, hence deducting effectively 17.35% from the actual mentioned prices
    (See clarification in new posting below)

    3- All earlier non EU customers who paid "VAT included" will be refunded for all their orders.
    You will receive an E-mail in the coming weeks.
    Conid will ask you to fill in a form in order to justify a refund from the Belgian VAT office, hence allowing us to recuperate the Belgian VAT we already paid.
    You will also need to specify your bank account or Paypal details.

    4 - For all pending 2015 orders we will systematically refund per shipment.

    5- Note it may take some time before all customers are refunded, while we sold approximately 150 Bulkfillers outside the EU in the meantime.
    However be assured we we do our very best to complete the refunds as soon as possible !

    Thanks again for your patience and friendly help in pointing us to the problem and helping us in putting this frustrating issue definitively to bed !
    King regards,
    Werner & Nadia
    Last edited by Fountainbel; April 6th, 2015 at 01:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Hi Fountain pen friends,
    It looks there was a mistake in the effective refund percentage calculation, sorry for that.
    Refunding 21% off the price from non EU purchases is incorrect.
    Belgian VAT rate is 21%. So if the price before VAT is 100, the total price with VAT is 121.
    If someone buys that 121 item without VAT, it should cost 100. So the discount rate is 21/121 which is about 17.35 % discount, not 21% discount.
    If the discount would be 21% it would mean that the price would be 95.59 which less than the original price of 100 before VAT, and thus is more discount than just taking off the VAT.
    I'll corrected this in the earlier posting.
    ​Sorry for the confusion we caused !
    Francis
    Last edited by Fountainbel; April 6th, 2015 at 04:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    I've goofed up similar equations myself, and many times.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    It would be *way* simpler to simply list the price and note that it is X amount + VAT (21%) for EU residents. This is how I normally see things listed, was simpler for the customer, and no confusion.
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    It would be *way* simpler to simply list the price and note that it is X amount + VAT (21%) for EU residents. This is how I normally see things listed, was simpler for the customer, and no confusion.
    I agree with this and think that's how most online sellers do it.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    It would be *way* simpler to simply list the price and note that it is X amount + VAT (21%) for EU residents. This is how I normally see things listed, was simpler for the customer, and no confusion.
    Hi Tandiana,
    Sure , thats the way Conid will do it when adapting the website !
    But since it can take a few weeks before the website is upgraded, customers can already order and directly deduct the VAT themselves.
    Thanks for your suggestion though !
    Best regards, Francis

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    A last update, I was informed by Nadia at Conid that my refund has been finalized. I'm happy that all of this has finally resolved and the misunderstanding on all sides rectified.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    The amount of refund should be X-(X/1.21) where X==the price paid.

    Not that you should trust anything I write about anything at this point.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Is VAT also assessed on "services" - such as nib grinding - and postage, or are such items exempt?

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Is VAT also assessed on "services" - such as nib grinding - and postage, or are such items exempt?

    You may find this link Chrissy provided helpful... https://www.gov.uk/vat-exports-dispa...vat-is-charged
    Last edited by Neo; April 8th, 2015 at 08:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Is VAT also assessed on "services" - such as nib grinding - and postage, or are such items exempt?
    VAT is payable on services such as nib-grinding, or repair work. However, no-one in the EU should be charging it to people who are outside of the EU.

    As an example, say I wanted to send one of my pens to a US nib grinder. That would be fine, as long as he completed the return Customs Declaration only declaring the cost of the service when it was returned to me. I would be charged VAT on that (it would include whatever the shipping cost was too) and not on the value of the pen that was already my property coming back.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Is VAT also assessed on "services" - such as nib grinding - and postage, or are such items exempt?
    It will depend on whether a seller is registered for VAT or not (has a VAT number, pays tax on sales and is able to issue invoices, not receipts). If they are, they should not charge the VAT on export to non-EU countries for any of the services. However, if you approach someone who is not a VAT payer, let say an individual who repairs, restores or sells pens privately not paying tax on services/sales you'll have to pay the normal price.
    Last edited by pica pica; April 8th, 2015 at 08:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Question about VAT for US residents

    By the way, the VAT on different products/services will differ (like 7% for postage, 11% for nib repair and 21% for fountain pens), and there will be variations between individual countries in the EU in the tax charged for the same product/service. For example, we may have a pen which costs 50 EUR (with VAT included) in both Germany and Portugal, but if the VAT for fountain pens is 15% and 25% respecively, it means that the real cost of the pen shipped outside of the EU will be 43.5 euros in Germany and 40 euros in Portugal.


    *** the tax rates above are not real. Some random numbers were picked to illustrate the problem

    For the real tax rates on stationary products including pens in the EU please look at the 'standard rate' here:

    http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...t_rates_en.pdf

    'Reduced rate' includes services like pen repair or transportation/shipping
    Last edited by pica pica; April 8th, 2015 at 10:07 AM.

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