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    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default My Red Kite is just too fast....

    I set myself the task of getting a decent shot of the Red Kite that visits my garden and picks up pieces of raw meat.

    He is used to me by now, he even comes down while I'm lying on my sun lounger, so I don't need to hide anymore.

    I have my camera set up by the patio door, with the remote plugged in, high speed continuous shooting and auto-focus set for where the meat is. I can't have it set too close up, or I wouldn't get anything, but I'm still only looking at a small area of lawn in my 100-400mm lens at the 100mm end.

    If I see him coming it's not too bad because I can press the button and take loads of frames. However, he's out of focus and the background is in focus. So, what can I do to improve my chances of getting him in focus? Any ideas? This is the best so far:

    Attachment 17222
    Last edited by Chrissy; March 17th, 2015 at 04:13 AM.

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    Which camera/lens have you got?

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    Quote Originally Posted by farmdogfan View Post
    Which camera/lens have you got?
    Canon EOS 1D + Canon EF 100-400 zoom. I set it on speed 1250 if it's a grey sky. I'm going to need my wide-angle lens aren't I?
    Last edited by Chrissy; March 17th, 2015 at 04:20 AM.

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    I would hold the camera in my hands, use the center focuspoint only, and then try to focus on the bird instead on the bait (by following the bird as it comes in, also i would up the shutter speed to 1600.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by farmdogfan View Post
    Which camera/lens have you got?
    Canon EOS 1D + Canon EF 100-400 zoom. I set it on speed 1250 if it's a grey sky. I'm going to need my wide-angle lens aren't I?

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    It's a great idea, and I will have another go, but he's usually far too fast for me. He mostly just appears over the house roof and is gone within 3 or 4 secs.

    I've switched lenses and will try it at a higher shutter speed.

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    Senior Member farmdogfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    You will quickly get better, also set the camera to max FPS.

    I wished i had a red kestrel coming to my yard.

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    Faster shutter speed is what you need here. That will freeze the action. If I were you, I'd go to 1/2000, if you've got the light. Just keep bumping the shutter speed up until you get the shot. Good luck.
    Kent

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    Senior Member carlc's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    Tracking the bird by hand is your best option - especially with centre focus.

    The f ratio of the lens may mean you'll need better light before the shutter speed can be pumped too high. A wide angle will not be useful I'm afraid.

    Not a helpful comment but that would have been a cracker of a shot if it had worked out.

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    The camera has focussed on the grass behind the kite, instead of on the kite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I set myself the task of getting a decent shot of the Red Kite that visits my garden and picks up pieces of raw meat.

    He is used to me by now, he even comes down while I'm lying on my sun lounger, so I don't need to hide anymore.

    I have my camera set up by the patio door, with the remote plugged in, high speed continuous shooting and auto-focus set for where the meat is. I can't have it set too close up, or I wouldn't get anything, but I'm still only looking at a small area of lawn in my 100-400mm lens at the 100mm end.

    If I see him coming it's not too bad because I can press the button and take loads of frames. However, he's out of focus and the background is in focus. So, what can I do to improve my chances of getting him in focus? Any ideas? This is the best so far:

    Attachment 17222

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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    That's not a fast enough shutter speed. The rest is still and therefore sharp. he is t out of focus he's motion blurred. Manual mode. Set an aperture that will give you enough depth of field to capture him, a super fast shutter speed and whatever ISO is required to make the exposure work.

    Unless you have one of Canons super expensive zooms the auto focus will not be fast enough for this situation. Focus on the meat and give yourself a deep enough DOF and your issue will ways be shutter speed for these shots.
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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    Yup, all good stuff but what Tandaina said was what I was thinking. Set the camera to full manual focus with as much shutter speed as you can make work and focus on a stuffed animal or something where you want to capture the picture near the bait. Then remove the focus object, add bait, and wait. (And hope that the light does not change.)

    Or the by hand thing, of course. Autofocus is the devil.

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    I think that bearing in mind I'm photographing down into the garden, by the time I've hiked up my shutter speed on a dull day, the depth of field has reduced too much. I need a bright sunny day to start with. I will have a go on manual focus, but sometimes he comes from the left and sometimes he comes from the right, depending on how he thinks the wind will help him to get out of the garden. I'm going to persevere until I get the shot.

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    I suppose everybody has their own way of doing things.
    I use my lens wide open allways ( you can do that with a 300 2,8 and other good lenses).
    I never use manual focus,i canīt imagine shooting flying swallows, swifts and other fastmoving birds with manual focus.
    The red kite is a relatively slowmoving bird, and allthough the 100-400 hasīnt got the fastest focus around, it should still manage a red kite.
    Practice and practice again, that is my best advice.

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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    Quote Originally Posted by farmdogfan View Post
    I suppose everybody has their own way of doing things.
    I use my lens wide open allways ( you can do that with a 300 2,8 and other good lenses).
    I never use manual focus,i canīt imagine shooting flying swallows, swifts and other fastmoving birds with manual focus.
    The red kite is a relatively slowmoving bird, and allthough the 100-400 hasīnt got the fastest focus around, it should still manage a red kite.
    Practice and practice again, that is my best advice.
    I started shooting when there *was no auto focus.* We shot birds, sports, everything full manual. I am still faster and more accurate focusing by hand than the stupid auto focus system in anything but a professional body built for sports and a few of Canons 5k+ lenses. My camera never enters auto focus, in fact my new Sony a7 II only has 1960s era manual glass mounted to it. Why? Because the quality of that glass is so superior to anything being made today (optically). Auto focus is entirely unnecessary and will work against most people in this situation. Tracking a hawk in flight isn't hard, they are gliders and move relatively slowly.

    However, once a bird of prey begins an attack they move far more quickly than anyone I know could track by hand and accurately keep the auto focus point over the moving bird. The camera *will* end up grabbing focus on a background object. The reason that many bird photographers use a blind and a lure is precisely because auto focus systems do not work well with quick, unpredictable movement. (movement in sports is actually very predictable and what most systems are built for). A lure/bait allows the photographer to prefocus accurately.

    I'd guess an aperture of F8 should give you enough DOF to get the whole bird in focus without loosing too much light. Shooting wide open is great for portraits or macro where you want shallow DOF for drama. Shooting landscapes? Usually the dead wrong choice. And almost never the sharpest aperture for your lens. (most lenses perform best around F8 to F11, research for your lens). The lure looks in focus here, I'd maybe focus a little closer because most of your DOF is back into the bushes. Try to get the lure at the center/back of the in focus area and you'll be most likely to nail the hawk.

    Chrissy, the 1D has decent high ISO performance. I'd crank your ISO up to 6400 and play. You might not get images you'd want to publish, but you'll get a lot more practice and you'll be able to shoot on grey days to perfect technique. That will give you lots of play with your shutter speed as well. Otherwise I'd say you've got the right technique, just keep practicing. It'll click. (Pun intended.)
    Last edited by tandaina; March 17th, 2015 at 11:26 AM.
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    Senior Member farmdogfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    I know a great many (excellent) bird photographers, and none use manual focus.

    Have you got a shot of a fast moving bird in flight, taken with manual focus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by farmdogfan View Post
    I suppose everybody has their own way of doing things.
    I use my lens wide open allways ( you can do that with a 300 2,8 and other good lenses).
    I never use manual focus,i canīt imagine shooting flying swallows, swifts and other fastmoving birds with manual focus.
    The red kite is a relatively slowmoving bird, and allthough the 100-400 hasīnt got the fastest focus around, it should still manage a red kite.
    Practice and practice again, that is my best advice.
    I started shooting when there *was no auto focus.* We shot birds, sports, everything full manual. I am still faster and more accurate focusing by hand than the stupid auto focus system in anything but a professional body built for sports and a few of Canons 5k+ lenses. My camera never enters auto focus, in fact my new Sony a7 II only has 1960s era manual glass mounted to it. Why? Because the quality of that glass is so superior to anything being made today (optically). Auto focus is entirely unnecessary and will work against most people in this situation. Tracking a hawk in flight isn't hard, they are gliders and move relatively slowly.

    However, once a bird of prey begins an attack they move far more quickly than anyone I know could track by hand and accurately keep the auto focus point over the moving bird. The camera *will* end up grabbing focus on a background object. The reason that many bird photographers use a blind and a lure is precisely because auto focus systems do not work well with quick, unpredictable movement. (movement in sports is actually very predictable and what most systems are built for). A lure/bait allows the photographer to prefocus accurately.

    I'd guess an aperture of F8 should give you enough DOF to get the whole bird in focus without loosing too much light. Shooting wide open is great for portraits or macro where you want shallow DOF for drama. Shooting landscapes? Usually the dead wrong choice. And almost never the sharpest aperture for your lens. (most lenses perform best around F8 to F11, research for your lens). The lure looks in focus here, I'd maybe focus a little closer because most of your DOF is back into the bushes. Try to get the lure at the center/back of the in focus area and you'll be most likely to nail the hawk.

    Chrissy, the 1D has decent high ISO performance. I'd crank your ISO up to 6400 and play. You might not get images you'd want to publish, but you'll get a lot more practice and you'll be able to shoot on grey days to perfect technique. That will give you lots of play with your shutter speed as well. Otherwise I'd say you've got the right technique, just keep practicing. It'll click. (Pun intended.)

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    I'm not interesting in getting into a pissing contest with anyone.

    Chrissy is using a tried and true birding technique of blind/lure and preset focus. She needs tweaks, not an entirely new direction.
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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    Me neither.

    Nowadays we have very fast and accurate autofocus, so there is no reason to use a method from the non-autofocus days.

    But off course if one wants to do it thatīs fine with me.

    BTW i never use blind/lure, i shoot them as they are in the wild.

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    I'm not interesting in getting into a pissing contest with anyone.

    Chrissy is using a tried and true birding technique of blind/lure and preset focus. She needs tweaks, not an entirely new direction.

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    Thank you all for your extremely helpful comments.

    I've taken my EF 100-400mm lens off the camera, and replaced it with the 28-35mm. This means I won't be able to shoot any other birds on my bird feeders, but I will get a greater depth of field. I will see what I get. Tomorrow should be reasonably sunny. Fingers crossed.

    Just so you can see the size of the problem, I fire off the camera at 10fps and he only ever appears in one shot.
    Last edited by Chrissy; March 17th, 2015 at 12:05 PM.

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Thank you all for your extremely helpful comments.



    I've taken my EF 100-400mm lens off the camera, and replaced it with the 28-35mm. This means I won't be able to shoot any other birds on my bird feeders, but I will get a greater depth of field. I will see what I get. Tomorrow should be reasonably sunny. Fingers crossed.



    Just so you can see the size of the problem, I fire off the camera at 10fps and he only ever appears in one shot.

    Keep us in the loop as to how it goes.

    Personally I'm learning all sorts of good stuff here.

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    Default Re: My Red Kite is just too fast....

    The problem is not focus, although focus could be tweaked in that shot (move center of critical focus zone closer to camera).

    The actual problem in that shot is motion blur. The bird was moving too fast for the shutter speed.

    Unrelated to focus or blur, the way the shutter moves affects the shot. In landscape orientation, the shutter slit is moving from top to bottom, and the side to side movement of the bird means that the bird image will be slightly smeared as it moves through the frame (if the shutter moves from top to bottom, a narrow slit causes the lower part of the bird image to smear in the direction of motion relative to the top, since the bottom portion of the bird is imaged slightly
    later). I do not know if the bird is moving fast enough for this to matter.

    One available solution to the problem is a faster shutter speed. Go as fast as the light allows, and use a higher ISO to get a sufficiently fast shutter speed. As pointed out, following the motion of the bird will also help,my it may require a lot of practice. :-)

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