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Thread: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth it!

  1. #21
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Flushing a PFM is known as a career.
    So true. The PFM design begs for a well-chosen, dedicated ink.
    +1 on both of those statements.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member lowks's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    I have reversed the less than optimal feedback and everything is back hunky dory.

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    Chrissy (March 22nd, 2015), Jon Szanto (March 21st, 2015), mhosea (March 21st, 2015), Ste_S (March 23rd, 2015), View from the Loft (March 25th, 2015)

  4. #23
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by lowks View Post
    I have reversed the less than optimal feedback and everything is back hunky dory.
    I think that is really great! Another very positive step, and this pen is going to stand for a lot of things done right.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member lowks's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post

    Point two. Never put the pen in liquids and pull the plunger tube up. Always pull the plunger tube up before putting the snorkel in liquids and then one single push down, wait a long ten count, remove and screw the end cap back to retract the snorkel.
    On this point, what happens when you pull the plunger tube up in liquid ?

  6. #25
    Senior Member lowks's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Just a heads up based on what you have said about impulsiveness.

    Flushing a PFM is known as a career. It is not a pen that was ever designed to get cleaned and flushed. The feeder itself holds about a week or more worth of ink and expelling ink through the snorkel bypasses the feed completely. If you want to flush the pen you fill with water then wrap the nib in absorbent material and let all the fluid wick away. Often it only takes a few days (unless it is Sheaffer Peacock Blue; that takes forever).
    Sorry got a question here as well, is flushing of PFMs this long or for all snorkels ?

  7. #26
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by lowks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post

    Point two. Never put the pen in liquids and pull the plunger tube up. Always pull the plunger tube up before putting the snorkel in liquids and then one single push down, wait a long ten count, remove and screw the end cap back to retract the snorkel.
    On this point, what happens when you pull the plunger tube up in liquid ?
    You know, I was thinking I could answer that, but I can't, and it is clearly stated in a lot of places to simply DON'T DO THAT! Probably one of the clearest text descriptions of how to fill a Snorkel is on this page at Richard Binder's site; just scroll down to "Touchdown and Snorkel" fillers. You'll also find links to some good diagrams and whatnot about how this filling system works. It isn't called the most complex filling system ever for no reason!
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  8. #27
    Useless mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by lowks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Just a heads up based on what you have said about impulsiveness.

    Flushing a PFM is known as a career. It is not a pen that was ever designed to get cleaned and flushed. The feeder itself holds about a week or more worth of ink and expelling ink through the snorkel bypasses the feed completely. If you want to flush the pen you fill with water then wrap the nib in absorbent material and let all the fluid wick away. Often it only takes a few days (unless it is Sheaffer Peacock Blue; that takes forever).
    Sorry got a question here as well, is flushing of PFMs this long or for all snorkels ?
    Flushing a "regular" Snorkel suffers from the same issue insofar as the primary feed and sac are easy to flush, but the secondary feed is bypassed by flushing. If one plays by the rules, a regular Snorkel does indeed take a good long while to clean. But the Snorkel feed isn't as big as the PFM, and moreover, if you really wanted to, you could just unscrew the Snorkel nib and feed assembly from the grip section and then flush the secondary feed, toss it in the ultrasonic, and/or soak it, then screw it back on. The PFM isn't built like that.

    If you draw up on the plunger while the secondary feed is below the surface of the water, negative pressure in the barrel could suck water into the pen barrel where it can make the spring rust. Nothing like that is possible with only the Snorkel tube immersed, but it's still best to get into the habit of drawing back the plunger with the nib and Snorkel tube in open air and then immersing the end of the tube before pushing down on the Touchdown tube. Note that if the pen has been inked, it will usually squirt a little bit out as the the Touchdown tube reaches full extension. Consequently, always keep your Snorkel tube pointed in a safe direction while it is extended.
    --
    Mike

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  10. #28
    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by lowks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post

    Point two. Never put the pen in liquids and pull the plunger tube up. Always pull the plunger tube up before putting the snorkel in liquids and then one single push down, wait a long ten count, remove and screw the end cap back to retract the snorkel.
    On this point, what happens when you pull the plunger tube up in liquid ?
    See the above message with the added warning that if there is a leak in the sac or anywhere else for that matter it will also pull ink into the body that can rust the spring.

  11. #29
    Senior Member david i's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    This does drive home the point that buying at retail prices from reliable retailers is not always such a bad thing and that eBay bargain sometimes are not such bargains.

  12. #30
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by david i View Post
    This does drive home the point that buying at retail prices from reliable retailers is not always such a bad thing and that eBay bargain sometimes are not such bargains.
    This is true to an extent, but in the course of the last year from well known, reputable dealers I have had: a Waterman 52 with a crack through the barrel thread, a P51 vac leaking though 'with new seals', a Conway Stewart with 'rare right-foot oblique' that was actually a horrible foot worn by a very heavy hand, an Esterbrook 'Transitional' where the J-bar had been displaced and punctured the new sac.
    I have had stuff from general eBay sellers meanwhile with no comparable unnoted faults. At least there expectations are not too high, unlike with the preceding examples from vintage pen specialists.
    Kind regards
    Timothy

    Edited for typography.
    Last edited by checkrail; March 22nd, 2015 at 04:48 PM.

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    Senior Member Cob's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Reading that stuff about the Sheaffer's vacuum system serves to reinforce my favouring my Onotos: The original (1905) and the best!

    Cob

  14. #32
    Senior Member david i's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by checkrail View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by david i View Post
    This does drive home the point that buying at retail prices from reliable retailers is not always such a bad thing and that eBay bargain sometimes are not such bargains.
    This is true to an extent, but in the course of the last year from well known, reputable dealers I have had: a Waterman 52 with a crack through the barrel thread, a P51 vac leaking though 'with new seals', a Conway Stewart with 'rare right-foot oblique' that was actually a horrible foot worn by a very heavy hand, an Esterbrook 'Transitional' where the J-bar had been displaced and punctured the new sac.
    I have had stuff from general eBay sellers meanwhile with no comparable unnoted faults. At least there expectations are not too high, unlike with the preceding examples from vintage pen specialists.
    Kind regards
    Timothy

    Edited for typography.
    Pens can degrade, and the most serious dealers can miss things. "Reliable and reputable" in my view is not meant to convey perfection of skill. It is meant to convey how those so labeled deal with adversity. And of course, even in the retail setting some do better than others.

    I do note tangentially that firing off negative feedback on ebay should be a last resort.

    regards

    david
    David R. Isaacson, MD

    http://www.vacumania.com : Sales site for guaranteed, restored collectible pens.

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  16. #33
    Useless mhosea's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    I think the point is well taken with respect these competing strategies:

    1. Buy an unrestored pen from eBay, send it to a restorer, and then have a restored pen.
    2. Buy an unrestored pen from eBay, restore it yourself, and then have a restored pen.
    3. Buy a "restored" pen from a random eBay seller, an individual who restores their own pens.
    4. Buy a restored pen from a reputable dealer (can be on eBay--it's about who the seller is, not where they sell) with a warranty.

    I have generally been a strategy #2 guy. If I have sold a pen that I restored, I was selling to a #3 guy (or #1 or #2 who simply discounted my restoration efforts), typically at a marginal improvement over the #1 or #2 price.

    Anyway, if you are a strategy #2 person, you learn pretty quickly, and often the hard way, how to see the pictures in an auction. There is a learning curve, and you will end up buying "parts" instead of "pens" here and there. Buying on strategy #3 often leads to the discovery that things have not been done quite right (sometimes not at all). Strategy #1 carries all the same risks as strategy #2, so the idea of going in with a "surgical strike" and grabbing a bargain is a roll of the dice, except that a newbie buyer on surgical strike mission doesn't have a sense of the probability of different outcomes, and they lack the experience needed to analyze all the information that is available to them in the auction. In the best case you will get your bargain. In the worst case you will get parts that you have no use for. Most cases will work out to a restored pen at a total cost that may or may not compare favorably to strategy #4. But Strategy #4 has the virtue of everything being up-front. With the others, you don't really know how much the working pen actually costs you until the dust settles.

    In this particular case, I saw a PFM-I on vacumania.com that might have been comparable in final cost when one ignores the customs charges (which must be present in both cases to one extent or the other because the buyer is importing the pen).

    Consequently, as I said, the point is well taken that, if you are just looking to buy a particular vintage pen, you should give serious thought to buying from a reputable restorer, or retailer who works with such restorers, bearing in mind that it is hard to compare these numbers up front unless you really know your stuff.
    Last edited by mhosea; March 23rd, 2015 at 09:24 PM.
    --
    Mike

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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Just a heads up based on what you have said about impulsiveness.

    Flushing a PFM is known as a career. It is not a pen that was ever designed to get cleaned and flushed. The feeder itself holds about a week or more worth of ink and expelling ink through the snorkel bypasses the feed completely. If you want to flush the pen you fill with water then wrap the nib in absorbent material and let all the fluid wick away. Often it only takes a few days (unless it is Sheaffer Peacock Blue; that takes forever).

    Point two. Never put the pen in liquids and pull the plunger tube up. Always pull the plunger tube up before putting the snorkel in liquids and then one single push down, wait a long ten count, remove and screw the end cap back to retract the snorkel.
    My one and only pfm thanks you for this advice.

  19. #35
    Senior Member david i's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    BTW, while I am an at least poseur pen dealer, I have bought thousands (no joke) of pens on ebay.

    I just advise being cautious.

    regards

    david
    David R. Isaacson, MD

    http://www.vacumania.com : Sales site for guaranteed, restored collectible pens.

    The Fountain Pen Board /FPnuts : Archived Message Board with focus on vintage.

    The Fountain Pen Journal: The new glossy full-color print magazine, published/edited by iconic fountain pen author Paul Erano.

    Facebook pen group "Fountain Pens"/FPnuts: Davey's casual Facebook group for collectible pens.
    31000 members and growing. World's heftiest daily vintage pen eye candy

  20. #36
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    I am not an expert on the pen side of things but I think you have done the right thing in the end.
    I would suggest writing a letter with proof of purchase, repair receipts and proof of postage to yourself to customs and asking for a refund of the import duty and vat you might just get your money back.

  21. #37
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    Default Re: My first PFM and also my first eBay dispute ... what a hot one! Hope it's worth i

    Quote Originally Posted by david i View Post
    BTW, while I am an at least poseur pen dealer, I have bought thousands (no joke) of pens on ebay.

    I just advise being cautious.

    regards

    david
    I have purchased close to 100 fountain pens on eBay and I can say from experience that David has provided sage advice. Why have I purchased close to 100 pens on eBay? Because it can work well for those who use it well.

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