Rhodia 80g and Rhodia 90g

[J H S]

.
.
I called my local business supply store......

"Hello, do you have any Rhodia notebooks?:

"Never heard of it."

"Clairfontain?"

"Never heard of it." (in an island town of 8,000, customer service has yet to catch on)

"Yeah, fancy stuff for fountain pens."

"Fountain pens?!"

"Yeah, they used to be a thing, OK, thanks, I gonna check my mail."

"click"
.
Not to fear, the friendly folks at Goulet Pens had sent my well packed Rhodia paper priority mail, which means it doesn't get shifted to the barge and a 4 to 6 week trip.

So, Rhodia 80gm2 / 21.3lb, and the premium 90gm2 / 41lb:

I like them both. Doing the wave sheets in the air experiment one does with snappy watercolor paper, I got no real decisive feedback, the rattle was sameo, and the taste was similar....yes I put a thumbnail sized piece on my tongue to see how it holds together. Tongues are sensitive, as any kisser knows, and the 90g did show a greater resistance to falling apart.

For writing comparison, I set the sheet side by side and composed shallow gibberish right across them. On the left is Rhodia #18, 80gm2 / 21.3 lb dot pad. On the right is Rhodia #18, Premium 90gm2 / 41 lb blank pad. In single sheet.

.

.

The differences are nominal to my unpracticed hand, I would buy the 80 if the 90 wasn't in stock. The final 5% goes to the 90g, I really like the rich cream color, reminds me of the farm down the mountain from my tipi in Colorado...they had this one Jersey cow named Molly....anyway, the color is fine, and the Rhodia Premium blank paper is my standard paper now. There is a tactile difference, and the 90 wins for me, yet it is slight. For the extra buck, might as well have it all.

I do have a heavy hand, and though I am learning to lighten up for flex nibs some, I don't want to feel I have to. Ghosting there is, but I expect that with any paper below 100gm2 weight. It's not bad, the cream wins again, and the experience gives me a clue not to make a big investment in thinner papers until I reform my rowdy hand ways. A light hand should have no spirit issue with either of these.

Before this Rhodia, I was writing on various high grade printer papers I have about, and hot press Arches, but there is no real comparison.
Like fine tea, fine paper is a relatively inexpensive luxury available to all.

I would very much like to see an A5 paper sample package of all the usual suspects, like Goulet does with ink, a great idea that must pay back in volume. The mail order problem that takes an evening to solve is that one store has two of three items you want, and another has 1, but not the missing one....and aZon has everything possible except what you really want...or a sneaky seller who offers the rare one at 3x$....I'm hearing an angel choir....

I would like to locate a good 100g paper with less ghosting, but till I find it, Rhodia 18, 90g is the one for me.

additional 41715: The two styles of paper together are perfect in that they are different. The dot pad is great for early drafts. To me the dot grid implies construction and invention, far less risky than an empty page, and I don't fear to play on the dot pad, where the premium paper calls a different mind, more formal and alert to finality. So, I'm sure I will keep them both on hand.

Jim

[sgtstretch]

I recently got a letter on the Rhodia 90g paper and I really like it. I've been using the standard 80g, but now I want to pick up a pad of the 90g to try out.

[J H S]

I highly recommend it, if you like the one, you may well love the other.

J H S

[naimitsu]

Very nice review. I especially like the side-by-side writing sample. It gives us a good idea of the differences... though it would have been nice to see a bit more of a close-up of the letters to really see the minute differences.

Also, I used to write with a heavy hand as well. A couple things that helped me was to post a fairly heavy pen and starting to use a dip nib.

The heavier pen causes more hand fatigue, but it has helped me not push down so hard on lighter pens, which seems weird, but I feel that as the hand gets used to a certain amount of feedback (and I don't mean nib feedback... more of a pressure feedback from the paper if that makes any sense), it'll want to maintain that.

Using a dip nib, if you press too hard, it will fight back in the form of unsightly splotches, so if you are going to try this, use cheap paper until you get the hang of it
I use a Round Hand Italic #4 predominantly and I noticed that if I don't use enough pressure, it sometimes skips as well. Also, if I don't have it at the correct writing angle, it fights me and causes micro scratches on the paper. The dip pen use has corrected the pressure and angle of my hand for writing with fountain pens. It's not perfect, but I'm no longer trying to kill the paper

[migo984]

Thanks for a great review. It is useful AND it made me laugh I like the "shallow gibberish" - keeping up the standard of so many reviews Hehe.

Agree about the paper swatch. Sellers are missing a trick there. I do know of a UK art supplies company that does sample packs of their art papers, but they aren't typical.

[elaineb]

You said in your review "I'm learning to lighten up for flex nibs, but I don't want to feel like I have to." I don't know what pen/nib you're using, but you do need to moderate your hand pressure if you're pushing the nib beyond its comfortable limit of flexing. It's not a paper issue, it's the stress on the gold alloy of your nib. Push it too many times beyond the limit it was designed to accomodate, and you'll "spring" the nib, i.e. the tines will no longer snap closed and write consistently. If you know this already and are working within your pen's limits, please forgive me for repeating what you don't need to hear. But I have seen so many people pushing vintage flex nibs to almost painful extremes these days, with enough pressure to score the paper with each tine. And it makes me wince, because these pens were not designed for such use, and I particularly wince when I see Ebay sellers doing writing samples that could easily be damaging the pens they're trying to sell as "wet noodles". So I just had to put in a caveat here:

A flex nibbed pen is not a bold writer. It produces a light, crisp, elegant lines. For bold handwriting, you need a large nib, like a stub or italic, that naturally lays down more ink without undue pressure.

[J H S]

some say my gibberish is knee-deep, so I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

I am very interested in desk pens, since I quickly discovered writing with a flex pen in bed is more difficult than, say, eating crackers.
I've moved to a desk and improvised slope which I am now totally hooked on. This sport is vast.

My turtle brain is over-loaded in the tail with fountain pen news, reviews, and opinion, but I'm following Morriset as an item search on ebay for one of those desk top dip-less pens. I love the name and can use it as a defense in certain conversations.
Further educations on dip-less pens are welcome. I have some dip-more pens, and find the tiresome but fun. The idea of getting several paragraphs to a page with a dip-less is inviting.

I forget where but it is said the Morriset will take the fine flex nibs of old, which are relatively cheap compared to vintage Pelikans.

So it is good to hear the larger, heavier pen is a possible solution to LHS (lead hand syndrome).

I almost bought one listed on dbay; with pen, some nib, and a cream colored dip-less well that looked a little to much like my grandmothers' toilet. So I passed. The black Art Nouveau ones are cool tho.

But I do want one. And hope to get set up with a great desktop writer soonly.

thanks for your feedback and suggestions.

[J H S]

O, and I'll do some macro photography of characters on the paper later tonight.

Feel free to request any additional photo's. I like pressing the button.

[elaineb]

Morriset nibs don't come apart... at least the one I own doesn't disassemble. It's got a glass feed, but otherwise it looks like an Esterbrook nib without an ink channel below the feed. (I'm scrambling through my pen drawers, looking for it, so I can confirm this. But I'm not finding it, hrrmph...) There's nothing flexy about it at all.

I'm not sure I understand your distinction between dip-less vs. dip-more pens. Can you be more specific about what kind of writing you want do do (i.e. how big you want it to be, how big a sheet will you be writing on, who will be reading it) and what your work area is like? I'm sure we can help put you on track toward the right kind of pens.

[J H S]

Thank you elaineb!
Allow me to start a new thread on dip-less pens so indexing and search functions are more discrete.
I really have not found much info on them, and your help will be most appreciated.
Let me locate the post about the Morriset and I will then post the new thread and pm you a notice.
I really do want a fair set.

.
Here is a cropped close up version of the two papers discussed above. The ink is Diamine Oxblood, strait-up.

The real benefit to placing papers side by side and writing across them is the instant feedback between the two as the nib-to-surface contact passes between them; the tactile awareness is instantaneous, and so, to me, more descriptive. Unfortunately such close nuance is hard to put in words. Perhaps when I have more experience with fountain pen specific papers, I can be of greater service.

Jim
.
.

[J H S]

elaineb,

thanks for you comments on flex nibs. I'm pretty good at leaving my ego at the classroom door and I enjoy learning new things. I bought my Pelikan 400 vintage flex thinking it would be a versatile fine to italic, really based on the writing sample in the listing. I did some web homework before the pen arrived and hope I'm not over stressing the nib, though with my hand I'm sure I'm approaching limits. The seller said the nib was 'extra flex' and could go up to 1mm spread. I don't know that I've had it that pressed, but I do use 1mm as an upper limit guide number. I really love the flex nib, and do not want to destroy it, especially since it is vintage. I understand it is not an italic, and I am hoping the nib survives my curve. Your points are well taken and I will reset my observations at my next writing session. Rescue is on the way, in the form of a Pelikan iB. When it arrives my 400 flex will take it's proper place as a special instrument. I'm sure I'll take a greater interest in flex writing once I have a daily writer on hand. I've tried several times to put this 400 in the drawer, but it's simply to cool not to have it clipped to my shirt, and once there, There Will Be Ink.

Jim

[J H S]

naimitsu,

Your clues to breaking the heavy hand are forming my approach.
Is there a specific branded nib you use? Life long habits are hard to break~ pesky Sasquatch genes!

Here's one of the more passionate flex sites I've come across: http://www.vintagepen.net/

I'm going to go stand in front of the mirror now, and repeat 101 times: "Waterman's do not exist, Waterman's do not exist, Waterman's do not exist..."

J H S

[elaineb]

Waterman? Pffft. Moore nibs are supreme. And no one is getting mine, until they pry them from my cold, dead hands...

[00Photo]

I really REALLY like the 90g R by Rhodia. It's pretty much all I use next to Tomoe River.

[J H S]

elaineb; so, tell me more about this Moore. I like Othello pretty well, though I only knew him for a short time.

00Photo; but isn't Tomoe anorexic? I guess I'll have to try some now : )

[naimitsu]

naimitsu,

Your clues to breaking the heavy hand are forming my approach.
Is there a specific branded nib you use? Life long habits are hard to break~ pesky Sasquatch genes!

Here's one of the more passionate flex sites I've come across: http://www.vintagepen.net/

I'm going to go stand in front of the mirror now, and repeat 101 times: "Waterman's do not exist, Waterman's do not exist, Waterman's do not exist..."

J H S

I actually started out with a Monteverde Impressa in their 1.1mm stub. It's a relatively heavy pen and the nib is pretty stiff (almost no flex at all, but it still writes pretty!). The other benefit is that it's a relatively inexpensive pen and if you wreck the nib, you can always just put in a Goulet/Anderson nib. They're nice nibs, especially for the price.

[elaineb]

Moore was an American company, and in the early 20th-century they produced nibs that I feel are as good and better than Waterman nibs of the same era. (Being a complete non-expert, I remind everyone to take what I say with a healthy dose of skepticism since I haven't used more than 40-50 vintage flex nibs in my life. But of those I've handled.... the good Moores have had no equals among the Watermans I tried.) They feel very fine and light in the pen, and produce hairlines of heartbreaking delicacy, but can open easily to robust widths as needed. The overall sensation is one of great precision. It does what you want, when you want it to. I don't know if it's the shape, the gold alloy, or manufacturing techniques that create this sensation, but it's just different than the Watermans.

That said, they are delicate, and I would expect they could be damaged more easily than other, more robust nibs. And not every Moore was a super-flex nib. (Most of my Moore's are semi-flex, in fact. Just as beautiful to look at, and very good writers. But not a wet noodler's dream.)

[J H S]

having seen your hand I feel qualified to drop the "complete" and hereby promote you to a Petty Non-expert, first class.
Hopefully this does not ruin your reputation.

OK, off to the moor to hunt Moores.